SCAR 17s and KDG stock issues? - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SCAR 17s and KDG stock issues?

Posted: 12/9/2016 11:31:15 AM EDT

I have a KDG stock on order for a new to arrive 17s.

While doing some research, I came across a number of threads on the FN forum of a few folks having issue with the backplate screws that go thru the receiver either coming loose or canting. They blame the aluminum plate on the aftermarket stock as not being able to absorb the excess energy under recoil as the OEM polymer stock was (by some accounts) supposed to do.

Apparently the issue has not been seen on SCAR 16s.

I got the feeling after reading thru a few of those painful posts, that those that had issues were real tinkerers. The rest got their panties in a wad and decided to stay with the oem stock to avoid any "issues".

I am wondering what your experiences have been for those that have these stocks. Is it a non-issue as KDG apparently seems to relay to those that have contacted them, or is there something to this?

Posted: 12/9/2016 11:48:34 AM EDT

[#1]

Don't have and I like the OEM stock, fits and functions as advertised. That said I believe that FN made that plate out of polymer for a reason and while I think an alloy plate would be better suited to that position I'm not willing to risk damage to either of my SCARs just to put on a nicer looking stock. Good luck in your endeavor and enjoy your new SCAR, they're great weapons.

Posted: 12/9/2016 12:20:46 PM EDT

[#2]

My screws were canted from the factory on a new gun. I have a kdg stock so can't say the stock caused them to be canted

. I have a kdg qd installed so I would say that would provide some additional material for the screws to distribute the shock of recoil on. I may install a second qd on the right side for this purpose.

Posted: 12/9/2016 1:00:24 PM EDT

[#3]

I believe FN has said they used a polymer stock plate to absorb the shock of the massive bolt carrier slamming back and forth. I got a KDG stock and liked the feel of the OEM stock much better, back plate aside.

Posted: 12/9/2016 2:59:54 PM EDT

[#4]

OP, I think your fears and the info you've heard about in regards to the use of ACR stock on the Scar 17 is valid. All I know is that once people started using them there were quite a few reported issues on the FN Forum and immediately you saw a lot of people dumping them just as quickly as they had rushed out to get them. Unfortunately the FN Forum is run by a few egotistical narcissists that don't allow any bad press about a few of their coveted sponsors and forum users. For that reason a lot of those threads disappeared on the board and a lot of people were hushed and subsequently banned, censorship bias at its finest. Personally I think the OEM stock works as advertised and is overall the best option even though it might not be the best looking option. IMHO you'd be better served if you saved your $300 and put it towards ammo, mags, classes, etc.

Posted: 12/9/2016 3:06:50 PM EDT

[#5]

Not sure on how it is on the 17, but the stock has a fairly significant lateral wobble on my 16. My stock did not come with the backplate screw (which caused a different movement) but I have since installed one. No cant issue. It helped, but it obviously didn't correct the folding latch wobble. The adjustable cheek weld also moves a quarter of an inch back and forth as well. I have contacted KDG several times in the last month to see if there is a fix and have not gotten a response.

Love the stock but the movement is certainly bothersome, especially given the price.

Posted: 12/9/2016 3:57:19 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
OP, I think your fears and the info you've heard about in regards to the use of ACR stock on the Scar 17 is valid. All I know is that once people started using them there were quite a few reported issues on the FN Forum and immediately you saw a lot of people dumping them just as quickly as they had rushed out to get them. Unfortunately the FN Forum is run by a few egotistical narcissists that don't allow any bad press about a few of their coveted sponsors and forum users. For that reason a lot of those threads disappeared on the board and a lot of people were hushed and subsequently banned, censorship bias at its finest. Personally I think the OEM stock works as advertised and is overall the best option even though it might not be the best looking option. IMHO you'd be better served if you saved your $300 and put it towards ammo, mags, classes, etc.

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Amen to that. It's tough not replying to a couple mods posts over there sometimes.

Posted: 12/9/2016 4:15:23 PM EDT

[#7]

I have a KDG stock and haven't shot my 17 with it on yet and now after seeing this thread and looking into it more I'm concerned. Would shooting it suppressed with the suppressed setting help dissipate some of the problems possibly?

When I googled the issue I ended up over at FnForum and boy I thought some of the purse swinging in GD was bad.

Posted: 12/9/2016 4:37:56 PM EDT

[#8]

I appreciate the responses of KDG owners, but a number of the comments here seems to be parroting what they read online. Like I originally said, there were very few that had this "issue"...the rest in those other threads appeared to stoke fears. Don't get me wrong, some of the concerns certainly seem valid...just looking for "the other side of the story"...if it's out there.

That is, I am looking for feedback from those that have used or use the KDG stock. I have seen a number of them posted here in the picture threads...yet no complaints about the stock until I visited the FN forum.

Depending on any more responses, I'll see if the stock is anything I like. If I do, I may just give it a go. What's the worst that can happen?

Posted: 12/9/2016 4:41:58 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a KDG stock and haven't shot my 17 with it on yet and now after seeing this thread and looking into it more I'm concerned. Would shooting it suppressed with the suppressed setting help dissipate some of the problems possibly?

When I googled the issue I ended up over at FnForum and boy I thought some of the purse swinging in GD was bad.

View Quote

Was I right, or was I right? Just a few minutes spent on that board and one can easily see who the chosen ones are over there. The masses coddling on their knees to one of the main Manufacturers over there is enough to make a grown man cry. Either you fall in line and dawn your special issued black Adidas track suit and shiny helmet and sing Stryker's praises or you risk being banned at the first sign of an alternative point of view. That board is worthless IMHO.

Posted: 12/9/2016 5:13:52 PM EDT

[#10]

I installed a KDG stock on my SCAR 17 SBR earlier this year before I saw those comments on the FN Forum. I figured what the hell and installed the KDG QD mounts on both sides of the receiver as a small measure of reinforcement (or perhaps piece of mind). I have since fired over 200 rounds so far (about half rather quickly from a helicopter but that's another story) and have seen no signs of cant in the rear receiver screws or separation of the back plate from the receiver.

Since it is an SBR and I only have a flash suppressor installed I wonder what positive effect might the 13 inch barrel length and the lack of a muzzle brake have on the back plate/stock interface. I think these 2 factors combined may reduce the stress on the back plate/stock interface but I have yet to sit down and work the scenario out on paper.

On my other SCAR 17 I have installed an AR butt stock adapter which has a similar interface as the KDG stock. As soon as my scope arrives next week I'll put some rounds through that one and report back.

Posted: 12/10/2016 2:47:17 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:

Was I right, or was I right? Just a few minutes spent on that board and one can easily see who the chosen ones are over there. The masses coddling on their knees to one of the main Manufacturers over there is enough to make a grown man cry. Either you fall in line and dawn your special issued black Adidas track suit and shiny helmet and sing Stryker's praises or you risk being banned at the first sign of an alternative point of view. That board is worthless IMHO.

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Agree with the above...

Posted: 12/10/2016 7:53:34 AM EDT

[#12]

Didn't know about those problems but no issues with 100 rounds down the pipe with KDG gear.

Posted: 12/10/2016 10:18:36 AM EDT

[#13]

I have a KDG with about 200 rounds since I installed it and have some very mild canting of the right screws. They may have been that way from the factory since I never paid attention. The screws were not loose.

I will add some KDG QD mounts on both sides to bulk up the contact points and keep running the KDG stock. There are several threads about canted screws on new rifles from the factory as well as far as I can tell. I'm not quite sure that this is an issue that condemns the KDG stock.

Posted: 12/10/2016 11:04:37 AM EDT

[#14]

The screws becoming canted due to a metal stock plate is very subjective. My thing is, why deviate from the original design? FN put lots of time and work into the Scar 17 and it is a highly tested design. A few guys said they spoke to FN reps at different shows and we're told the metal stock plate is a no go because it needs to flex as designed. If it's not broke....

Posted: 12/10/2016 11:36:48 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
The screws becoming canted due to a metal stock plate is very subjective. My thing is, why deviate from the original design? FN put lots of time and work into the Scar 17 and it is a highly tested design. A few guys said they spoke to FN reps at different shows and we're told the metal stock plate is a no go because it needs to flex as designed. If it's not broke....

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I go to the exact same answer at SHOT back in 2015 and that's exactly why I didn't bother. Some may not have issues and that's great news but it's just a matter of time.

Posted: 12/10/2016 5:08:28 PM EDT

[#16]

Im not arguing in anyones favor or anything, I just cant help but wonder why people are reporting canted screws on rifles with the OEM polymer stock plate if metal stock plates are supposedly *why* it happens. I cant help but feel like more people would have reported an issue like this. But who knows, a lot of people buy a SCAR, dress it up, and the only shooting they do with it is photos for Instagram or whatever.

Also, for the sake of argument, if the KDG stock is, in fact, the reason it happens... would the screws becoming canted damage the rifle? I have that stock, but Ive only shot 100 or so rounds through my SCAR with it on. Id like to shoot it more and see what happens, but I dont want to end up ruining something just for the sake of experimentation.

Id rather just put the OEM stock back on and avoid issues until more definitive evidence is presented.

Posted: 12/11/2016 10:48:56 AM EDT

[#17]

Well I never looked at these screws with close attention before, but my SCAR has 5k rounds through it with the FN stock and MB and another 500 through it so far with the KDG and a SilencerCo FH. Very slight cant to two of the screws.

The FN Forum thread discusses replacing the screws with longer ones so that might be an option. Others are also changing out the gas screw to 1.3 to get the recoil down. I've used the original 1.5 screw for all my shooting. FEED LIST: 500 TULA 150 gr

, 500 7.62x51mm DAG

, 2000 150 gr blasting loads at 2600 FPS, 500 max power 2700 FPS 150 gr loads w/ commercial brass, 2000 168 gr HPBT loaded to 2500 FPS and 500 of the ZQI stuff..

Posted: 12/15/2016 8:12:04 PM EDT

[#18]

I have the KDG stock and have had or tried most of the stocks on the market.

KDG:
PROS: Feels more solid than the FN stock.
Looks betters.
QD cup.
Supposedly lighter (never weighed it to confirm this)

CONS: Expensive.
Doesn't lock when folded.
FDE color is way darker.
Cheek height is lower than the FN.

Honestly I'm thinking about returning mine. The cheek weld is slightly lower than the FN stock and you need to use the cheek riser in the up position for the irons (at least I do), which should be used for higher optics. It's also expensive.

If you don't mind losing the folding ability (that most of us never will use) the Vltor Re-Scar AR adapter is the best in terms of shootability. It allows you to move the whole cheek height up and down. Your face sits on the same height the entire length of the stock. The FN stock is good, but if your running a optic and need a certain eye relief, you have to move the optic back or forward on your rail to get your cheek on the riser, instead of moving your face to obtain the proper eye relief.

I've also tried the High Desert Dog Magpul PRS adapter, which has to have the cheek piece cranked all the way up to get the eye relief on a scope. This is because they made the adapter plate/buffer tube too low. Not worth buying.

Truth be told I bought the KDG stock because it looks so much better than the standard FN stock. IMO it doesn't accomplish anything the standard stock won't do, with the exception of the QD socket. In the case of the cheek height, the standard stock is better. I think the only real improvement a user needs to make on the FN stock is the metal TangoDown button.

I'm not going to even get into clip on NV with the Scar, that's a nightmare I went through and deserves it's own thread.

Posted: 12/19/2016 9:58:47 PM EDT

[#19]

Just noticed this thread. Went down to safe and checked my SCAR. The reward most screw is every so slightly canted on the left side of the receiver. I only have approximately 200 rounds through it with the KDG stock. No idea if that screw was canted before I installed the KDG. I actually really like the stock, and prefer it over the OEM stock. Anyone use something to help mitigate the canting and it worked?

Posted: 12/19/2016 10:40:17 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Just noticed this thread. Went down to safe and checked my SCAR. The reward most screw is every so slightly canted on the left side of the receiver. I only have approximately 200 rounds through it with the KDG stock. No idea if that screw was canted before I installed the KDG. I actually really like the stock, and prefer it over the OEM stock. Anyone use something to help mitigate the canting and it worked?

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I put KDG QD mounts on both sides as cheap insurance.

Posted: 12/19/2016 11:06:27 PM EDT

[#21]

Anyone know what the backplate of the MK 20 SSR is made of? It looks like metal same as the KDG stock backplate.

Posted: 12/20/2016 12:09:35 AM EDT

[#22]

I now have my NEW in box SCAR 17s. I took pics of the screws. They are ever so slightly canted on one side. I'll try to join here again and post pics. This is new and unfired.

I am wondering if these instances of "tilted screws" were always this way...and folks just never noticed until now. I never would have seen any "cant" unless I looked really hard for it.

Either way, I'm going to return my KDG stock as I actually found the oem one to be more comfortable (looks be damned) and am putting the money towards the Geisselle trigger.

Posted: 12/20/2016 12:19:14 AM EDT

[#23]

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Posted: 12/20/2016 8:42:31 AM EDT

[#24]

I just had one more thought. It would make sense to me that the screw holes were engineered to be biased slightly toward the muzzle end.

In doing so, as the screws are tightened (and they engage the "cone" of the receiver hole), they would pull the end plate snug into the back of the receiver. This would explain the ever so slight cant of the screws in the direction they are.

Posted: 12/20/2016 10:42:09 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
I just had one more thought. It would make sense to me that the screw holes were engineered to be biased slightly toward the muzzle end.

In doing so, as the screws are tightened (and they engage the "cone" of the receiver hole), they would pull the end plate snug into the back of the receiver. This would explain the ever so slight cant of the screws in the direction they are.

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Good point. Also my NIB 17 at the time looked like yours. I don't think it's the issue internet commandos are making it out to be.

Posted: 12/20/2016 11:15:03 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
My screws were canted from the factory on a new gun. I have a kdg stock so can't say the stock caused them to be canted

. I have a kdg qd installed so I would say that would provide some additional material for the screws to distribute the shock of recoil on. I may install a second qd on the right side for this purpose.

View Quote

Same. 3 of my 5 have canted screws.

I figured it was just normal.

Posted: 12/20/2016 5:32:53 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:

Good point. Also my NIB 17 at the time looked like yours. I don't think it's the issue internet commandos are making it out to be.

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It's a good point right up until you listen to what the FNH reps. have told several people at SHOT which is that FNH purposely used polymer for that back plate to cushion the bolt carrier impact. That's how they designed it and that's how it was so extensively tested by them. I have no real dog in this fight, I would actually prefer that specific piece to be an alloy of some sort on the off chance I ever broke the stock off during some made up emergency situation, but that's not how FNH designed it.

Hell, what do they know.....they're only one of the largest arms makers on the planet....their testing means nothing right.

Interesting enough, I have a RRA LAR-PDS and as it's a piston gun too. I looked at the space behind its bolt carrier and low and behold it's some sort of fairly hard polymer too. Just an interesting coincidence.

Posted: 12/20/2016 6:18:13 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

It's a good point right up until you listen to what the FNH reps. have told several people at SHOT which is that FNH purposely used polymer for that back plate to cushion the bolt carrier impact. That's how they designed it and that's how it was so extensively tested by them. I have no real dog in this fight, I would actually prefer that specific piece to be an alloy of some sort on the off chance I ever broke the stock off during some made up emergency situation, but that's not how FNH designed it.

Hell, what do they know.....they're only one of the largest arms makers on the planet....their testing means nothing right.

Interesting enough, I have a RRA LAR-PDS and as it's a piston gun too. I looked at the space behind its bolt carrier and low and behold it's some sort of fairly hard polymer too. Just an interesting coincidence.

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You have to take their word with a grain of salt though. Any manufacturer is most likely going to say they did what they did on purpose because it was the best way to do it. They arent going to give anyone any reason to criticize them for using plastic over metal on a $3k gun. Ive seen people bitching and moaning over what the gun costs and how cheap the stock is for years.

People saying the FN reps said they used plastic over metal for this exact issue doesnt make sense when you consider how many people have the issue on a fresh out of the box gun already. How is the KDG stock responsible if people are seeing it without using that stock?

Posted: 12/20/2016 7:57:39 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:

You have to take their word with a grain of salt though. Any manufacturer is most likely going to say they did what they did on purpose because it was the best way to do it. They arent going to give anyone any reason to criticize them for using plastic over metal on a $3k gun. Ive seen people bitching and moaning over what the gun costs and how cheap the stock is for years.

People saying the FN reps said they used plastic over metal for this exact issue doesnt make sense when you consider how many people have the issue on a fresh out of the box gun already. How is the KDG stock responsible if people are seeing it without using that stock?

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I agree with you that you can't put blame on a stock that was never used on a weapon, wouldn't make any sense and I've never laid blame to KDG for the canted screw issue. I've never used anything other than the OEM stock, it works for me, but I'd hate to see anyone mess up their $3,000 rifle so I put in my 2 cents. Like I'd said before, I'd like that backplate to be an alloy too (and Handl makes one) but since I like the OEM stock and I'm a bit cautious I'll leave that part as FNH made it.

Posted: 12/20/2016 8:30:24 PM EDT

[#30]

IMHO I believe they went with polymer for weight and cost savings.

Posted: 12/20/2016 9:55:48 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:

It's a good point right up until you listen to what the FNH reps. have told several people at SHOT which is that FNH purposely used polymer for that back plate to cushion the bolt carrier impact. That's how they designed it and that's how it was so extensively tested by them. I have no real dog in this fight, I would actually prefer that specific piece to be an alloy of some sort on the off chance I ever broke the stock off during some made up emergency situation, but that's not how FNH designed it.

Hell, what do they know.....they're only one of the largest arms makers on the planet....their testing means nothing right.

Interesting enough, I have a RRA LAR-PDS and as it's a piston gun too. I looked at the space behind its bolt carrier and low and behold it's some sort of fairly hard polymer too. Just an interesting coincidence.

View Quote

You better call those FNH engineers really quick before they make a mistake and release the SSR with what appears to be an aluminum stock plate on their fixed stock.

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Posted: 12/20/2016 10:05:30 PM EDT

[#32]

Oh poo.

Posted: 12/21/2016 1:24:09 AM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:

You better call those FNH engineers really quick before they make a mistake and release the SSR with what appears to be an aluminum stock plate on their fixed stock.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/79549/IMG-0222-111597.JPG
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/79549/IMG-0223-111598.JPG
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/79549/IMG-0224-111599.JPG

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I have no need to, I'm good with what they have released to us so far. Maybe you should call them or see if someone who was at SHOT that handled one knows if that's alloy or polymer or if it's alloy with a polymer insert. It's a gun that hasn't even been released to the public yet so other than a few pics I doubt many of us have even seen it in person.

Doesn't really matter to me, I'm happy with the toys I've got plus the FNH products I own. Good luck in your perfection hunt.

Posted: 12/21/2016 2:36:57 AM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:

You better call those FNH engineers really quick before they make a mistake and release the SSR with what appears to be an aluminum stock plate on their fixed stock.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/79549/IMG-0222-111597.JPG
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/79549/IMG-0223-111598.JPG
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/79549/IMG-0224-111599.JPG

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Oh shit, this just got REALLY good!

Posted: 12/21/2016 7:43:28 AM EDT

[#35]

Maybe the whole controversy was created to discredit KDG's design so that competition would have time to get their model to market? Something stinks. Reminds me of some of the Handl stuff I saw a couple years ago...

Posted: 12/21/2016 9:10:01 AM EDT

[#36]

To be fair I can't be certain what it is made of or other possible ways they engineered the stock. It does appear to not be made of molded plastic.

Sorry for the snarky response. I just don't have a lot of faith in sales reps and their knowledge of engineering. I won't accept as gospel what was said at a trade show.

Posted: 12/21/2016 3:14:05 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
To be fair I can't be certain what it is made of or other possible ways they engineered the stock. It does appear to not be made of molded plastic.

Sorry for the snarky response. I just don't have a lot of faith in sales reps and their knowledge of engineering. I won't accept as gospel what was said at a trade show.

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I'd absolutely fucking LOVE to hear what a certain notorious person at FNforums might say about this. Actually two of them. I just can't make it more than 10 min or so in that forum.

Posted: 12/21/2016 3:35:23 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
Maybe the whole controversy was created to discredit KDG's design so that competition would have time to get their model to market? Something stinks. Reminds me of some of the Handl stuff I saw a couple years ago...

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As far as handl stuff goes their fore-rail is amazing. The HD stock hinge kind of sucked even though the QD location was great. My lower had a ton of wobble with it installed so I ended up going back to OEM. That is the reason why I didn't buy the handl lower.

Posted: 1/3/2017 3:54:27 PM EDT

[#39]

I researched this issues as well. I liked the KDG but ended up sticking with the factory stock and returned the KDG.. Scar 17's cost too much to risk breaking back plate screws just for an aftermarket stock.

Posted: 1/3/2017 10:42:26 PM EDT

[#40]

I just put a scar 17 on layaway the screws are barely canted but I can't tell without a gauge that is level

Posted: 1/3/2017 11:44:29 PM EDT

[#41]

I installed my KDG MREX rail last night. Everything was going well until I got to the screw under the barrel to remove the bottom rail. Holy crap, talk about frustrating. Heated it real good to loosen the threadlocker. It wouldn't budge. Heated it a few times, wouldn't budge. Soaked it for a bit in penetrant. No dice.

ARGH!!! Researched online with no help. For all my efforts the torx head was beginning to get messed up. About to give up...and possibly take it to a gunsmith, I had an idea.

I put the T25 Torx bit into my Dewalt Bit driver hoping the ratcheting action would break it loose. I put the barrel assembly into my padded vice and gave it a crank. Loosened right up and breathed a sigh of relief. Hope this helps others.

The new install went perfectly other than that holdup.

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Posted: 1/5/2017 1:23:05 PM EDT

[#42]

Very good thread and much more informative and civil then the children over at FNForum can contribute (for the most part) for sure. I've thought about going the KDG route for the stock but just never decided on it. Better money spent on trigger, mags, ammo, etc. Anyway, good looking rig Hyperformer.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SCAR 17s and KDG stock issues?

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