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FN products handle stress VERY well (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 6/12/2015 12:17:50 PM EDT
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Hi folks,
I've started a few threads related to AK's and pistols that are used 364 days a week on our rental range. A fellow arfcommer asked if I would give him him some info the FN-made products. We go through hundreds of thousands of rounds each month on the range and a majority of it's in full auto. Well... I can say that I wasn't a fan of the SCAR series of weapons since I first test-fired some at Nellis AFB during a FN weapons demo. I was shooting SCAR-H's and what I didn't like about it was the "rocking" that I got in my teeth during full-auto use. After using FN's on our range for over 2.5 years, this weapon has REALLY impressed me. We've lost a few springs, disconnectors, hammers and charging handles but other than that, everything has been very impressive. We lost a stock when a staff member dropped it but I have no idea how many times the weapons have been dropped. The staff try their hardest to take care of the weapons but accidents happen and weapons get dropped. P90's run like champs and the only part to be break on them is the bolt carrier. The carrier breaks right at the bolt face and I believe we replaced at least 3-4 since we've opened. Our factory FN-made M249's are VERY reliable but all of the US-made copies don't even come close... no matter HOW MUCH they say their product is better or "the same as FN". We've lost a few bolts and sear springs but the biggest disposable items for this weapon is the gas tube. We've gone through at the very least 10 gas tubes since we've opened. The end of the tube that fits into the trunion just erodes away not matter how often we clean it. The heat is just to much and it slowly eroded away with small cracks initially and then finally it completely shears off. The M240's we have in our inventory are NOT factory units but all of the parts (other than the right side plate) are FN-made. The ONLY piece we've ever lost on these weapons are two firing pins in the last 2.5 years (and the other 7 years we've had them in our inventory). They just run and run and run. The armorers love them becaus the maintenance is almost non-existent. Lastly, our FN-45 pistol. I will get more information but I am pretty sure that it's been down two or three times since we've opened but it has seen QUITE a bit of use. V/R Ron |
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Thank you for another great thread. In regards to the FN-45, do you mean the FNP-45? |
You KNOW it's going to be an "Interesting" Job when you see the 5 Gal tub of Anal-ease with a popsicle stick sticking out of it and a VERY frightened looking gerbil hiding in his cage. AJK07734
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Originally Posted By PRYDE:
So you have not noticed any excessive wear on the 6061 receiver or the rear stock attachment plate as claimed by others? What is the highest round counts for the SCAR 16/17 in your inventory? For us, there has been no excessive wear on the receivers. We use both SCAR-H's and SCAR-L's and the receiver condition has been unremarkable to this point. V/R Ron |
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Originally Posted By JoshNC:
What's the round count on the SCAR-L and SCAR-H? What springs broke and what were the circumstances of the hammer breaking? Great post, thanks for sharing this info. We tried to put together the numbers from the amount of cleaning and that the fact that both weapons have been on the line since day one. We now have doubles and some triples but the originals (both the L and H) are on their third barrel and continue to be run daily. I will ask one of the armorers to check his maintenance log and see if it was the hammer or trigger spring or a combination of both. As for hammer breaking, these both being guns that have to have well over 100,000 rounds them under full-auto use is the reasoning for the broken hammer. V/R Ron |
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
We tried to put together the numbers from the amount of cleaning and that the fact that both weapons have been on the line since day one. We now have doubles and some triples but the originals (both the L and H) are on their third barrel and continue to be run daily. I will ask one of the armorers to check his maintenance log and see if it was the hammer or trigger spring or a combination of both. As for hammer breaking, these both being guns that have to have well over 100,000 rounds them under full-auto use is the reasoning for the broken hammer. V/R Ron Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By JoshNC:
What's the round count on the SCAR-L and SCAR-H? What springs broke and what were the circumstances of the hammer breaking? Great post, thanks for sharing this info. We tried to put together the numbers from the amount of cleaning and that the fact that both weapons have been on the line since day one. We now have doubles and some triples but the originals (both the L and H) are on their third barrel and continue to be run daily. I will ask one of the armorers to check his maintenance log and see if it was the hammer or trigger spring or a combination of both. As for hammer breaking, these both being guns that have to have well over 100,000 rounds them under full-auto use is the reasoning for the broken hammer. V/R Ron Thanks Ron. What was the lifespan on the barrels? Any broken H bolts? |
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
We tried to put together the numbers from the amount of cleaning and that the fact that both weapons have been on the line since day one. We now have doubles and some triples but the originals (both the L and H) are on their third barrel and continue to be run daily. I will ask one of the armorers to check his maintenance log and see if it was the hammer or trigger spring or a combination of both. As for hammer breaking, these both being guns that have to have well over 100,000 rounds them under full-auto use is the reasoning for the broken hammer. V/R Ron Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By JoshNC:
What's the round count on the SCAR-L and SCAR-H? What springs broke and what were the circumstances of the hammer breaking? Great post, thanks for sharing this info. We tried to put together the numbers from the amount of cleaning and that the fact that both weapons have been on the line since day one. We now have doubles and some triples but the originals (both the L and H) are on their third barrel and continue to be run daily. I will ask one of the armorers to check his maintenance log and see if it was the hammer or trigger spring or a combination of both. As for hammer breaking, these both being guns that have to have well over 100,000 rounds them under full-auto use is the reasoning for the broken hammer. V/R Ron Wait so minimal parts breakage at 100k (beyond any life imagined by FN) and no broken bolts???? |
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Originally Posted By BMad316:
SNIP V/R Ron Wait so minimal parts breakage at 100k (beyond any life imagined by FN) and no broken bolts???? Yes. The only parts we've broken (other than the stock from staff dropping the weapon) are the hammer, hammer spring, extractor pin, and the plate on the side of the trigger pack ( not sure the name of it). Again, these two original weapons have been on the line for over two and half years. V/R Ron |
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Ron,
Do you notice any wear on the bolt lugs and barrel extension lugs of the FN Scars. My 16 and 17 have wear on the lugs. I'm ok with the wear as long as it's considered normal and wont ending up sheering off. 
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Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.
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Originally Posted By PRYDE:
Well don't you know according to some guy in the Army who knows a SOF guy or who's friend knows a SOF guy, or heard on the range, the plastic parts on a SCAR break the second you sneeze on them and it is a POS weapon system...... You clearly missed the part where he said the stock broke when dropped on the range, 
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Originally Posted By NUcadet07: You clearly missed the part where he said the stock broke when dropped on the range, Originally Posted By NUcadet07: Originally Posted By PRYDE: Well don't you know according to some guy in the Army who knows a SOF guy or who's friend knows a SOF guy, or heard on the range, the plastic parts on a SCAR break the second you sneeze on them and it is a POS weapon system...... You clearly missed the part where he said the stock broke when dropped on the range, |
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Originally Posted By BMad316:
Wait so minimal parts breakage at 100k (beyond any life imagined by FN) and no broken bolts???? Originally Posted By BMad316:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By JoshNC:
What's the round count on the SCAR-L and SCAR-H? What springs broke and what were the circumstances of the hammer breaking? Great post, thanks for sharing this info. We tried to put together the numbers from the amount of cleaning and that the fact that both weapons have been on the line since day one. We now have doubles and some triples but the originals (both the L and H) are on their third barrel and continue to be run daily. I will ask one of the armorers to check his maintenance log and see if it was the hammer or trigger spring or a combination of both. As for hammer breaking, these both being guns that have to have well over 100,000 rounds them under full-auto use is the reasoning for the broken hammer. V/R Ron Wait so minimal parts breakage at 100k (beyond any life imagined by FN) and no broken bolts???? I don't find that to be too hard to believe. My agency's G36c rifles are over 40k rounds and have never had any parts replacement in the BCG. A bolt that is the correct size/bulk for the round it is firing should last a very, very long time. The AR bolt is too small for the pressure of the 5.56 round. |
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Zero issues with the gas block nor the lower receiver. V/R Ron Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By tasty_chicken:
How has the gas block on the SCAR 16/17 held up to having that many rounds through it? What about the lowers? Have they held up okay? Zero issues with the gas block nor the lower receiver. V/R Ron Ron is their any way you can check those bolt lugs? See my post above ^^ |
Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.
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Originally Posted By M4A1:
<snip> Ron is their any way you can check those bolt lugs? See my post above ^^ I apologize that I never responded but I did check the bolt lugs and there was no wear or evidence of fatigue/cracking. That being said, this happened yesterday. The bolt has outlasted several barrels and finally cracked yesterday. The SCAR that this bolt came out of was put on the line 01 OCT 13 and has been on the line ever since. This platform couldn't have surprised me more. V/R Ron 
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I apologize that I never responded but I did check the bolt lugs and there was no wear or evidence of fatigue/cracking. That being said, this happened yesterday. The bolt has outlasted several barrels and finally cracked yesterday. The SCAR that this bolt came out of was put on the line 01 OCT 13 and has been on the line ever since. This platform couldn't have surprised me more. V/R Ron http://i.imgur.com/tf09ZeC.jpg Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By M4A1:
<snip> Ron is their any way you can check those bolt lugs? See my post above ^^ I apologize that I never responded but I did check the bolt lugs and there was no wear or evidence of fatigue/cracking. That being said, this happened yesterday. The bolt has outlasted several barrels and finally cracked yesterday. The SCAR that this bolt came out of was put on the line 01 OCT 13 and has been on the line ever since. This platform couldn't have surprised me more. V/R Ron http://i.imgur.com/tf09ZeC.jpg Ron, thank you for hear posting. Very informative... Was this broken bolt in a L or an H? ETA: what barrel lengths were on the rifle when it broke? |
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I apologize that I never responded but I did check the bolt lugs and there was no wear or evidence of fatigue/cracking. That being said, this happened yesterday. The bolt has outlasted several barrels and finally cracked yesterday. The SCAR that this bolt came out of was put on the line 01 OCT 13 and has been on the line ever since. This platform couldn't have surprised me more. V/R Ron http://i.imgur.com/tf09ZeC.jpg Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By M4A1:
<snip> Ron is their any way you can check those bolt lugs? See my post above ^^ I apologize that I never responded but I did check the bolt lugs and there was no wear or evidence of fatigue/cracking. That being said, this happened yesterday. The bolt has outlasted several barrels and finally cracked yesterday. The SCAR that this bolt came out of was put on the line 01 OCT 13 and has been on the line ever since. This platform couldn't have surprised me more. V/R Ron http://i.imgur.com/tf09ZeC.jpg Thanks Ron |
Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I apologize that I never responded but I did check the bolt lugs and there was no wear or evidence of fatigue/cracking. That being said, this happened yesterday. The bolt has outlasted several barrels and finally cracked yesterday. The SCAR that this bolt came out of was put on the line 01 OCT 13 and has been on the line ever since. This platform couldn't have surprised me more. V/R Ron http://i.imgur.com/tf09ZeC.jpg Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By M4A1:
<snip> Ron is their any way you can check those bolt lugs? See my post above ^^ I apologize that I never responded but I did check the bolt lugs and there was no wear or evidence of fatigue/cracking. That being said, this happened yesterday. The bolt has outlasted several barrels and finally cracked yesterday. The SCAR that this bolt came out of was put on the line 01 OCT 13 and has been on the line ever since. This platform couldn't have surprised me more. V/R Ron http://i.imgur.com/tf09ZeC.jpg Absolutely amazing! |
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Not that this is relevant, but how does the company you work for acquire these guns?
Do you have to pay super high prices like the average Joe or is there some other corporate thing that makes it easier for you? |
http://ridefourcorners.com/ - Helping people find people.
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Originally Posted By w33b8t1:
Not that this is relevant, but how does the company you work for acquire these guns? Do you have to pay super high prices like the average Joe or is there some other corporate thing that makes it easier for you? We get them at distributor pricing for the most part. All of our FN's were initially used for demonstration purposed to local and out-of-state LE so we get enough of a price break for a small margin. LE's purchase straight from the mfg so they don't pay the extra 10% FET that everybody else has to pay. V/R Ron |
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
We get them at distributor pricing for the most part. All of our FN's were initially used for demonstration purposed to local and out-of-state LE so we get enough of a price break for a small margin. LE's purchase straight from the mfg so they don't pay the extra 10% FET that everybody else has to pay. V/R Ron Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By w33b8t1:
Not that this is relevant, but how does the company you work for acquire these guns? Do you have to pay super high prices like the average Joe or is there some other corporate thing that makes it easier for you? We get them at distributor pricing for the most part. All of our FN's were initially used for demonstration purposed to local and out-of-state LE so we get enough of a price break for a small margin. LE's purchase straight from the mfg so they don't pay the extra 10% FET that everybody else has to pay. V/R Ron I guess I was thinking about the Class III stuff. Is all your stuff older that you have acquired or are you able to buy new stuff somehow. 
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http://ridefourcorners.com/ - Helping people find people.
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Originally Posted By w33b8t1:
I guess I was thinking about the Class III stuff. Is all your stuff older that you have acquired or are you able to buy new stuff somehow. Originally Posted By w33b8t1:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Originally Posted By w33b8t1:
Not that this is relevant, but how does the company you work for acquire these guns? Do you have to pay super high prices like the average Joe or is there some other corporate thing that makes it easier for you? We get them at distributor pricing for the most part. All of our FN's were initially used for demonstration purposed to local and out-of-state LE so we get enough of a price break for a small margin. LE's purchase straight from the mfg so they don't pay the extra 10% FET that everybody else has to pay. V/R Ron I guess I was thinking about the Class III stuff. Is all your stuff older that you have acquired or are you able to buy new stuff somehow. We do purchase new weapon systems (approximately ten MG's currently inbound) because we continue to do sales to LE agencies around the country. One of our staff is a retired F-111 pilot and retired police officer who enjoys going on the road and doing sales to small agencies. He has both LE and military background which allows him to get in the door of most agencies. V/R Ron |
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Originally Posted By 17sHeavy:
How have the magazines held up? Particularly, the SCAR 17? I assume you have been using stock mags. Have they been the same ones through out or have you had to replace them because of damage / wear or loss? I believe we may have lost two of the SCAR-17 mags since opening but the guys didn't treat them as well as they should. They have changed their ways for the better and haven't had as many bad mags lately. V/R Ron |
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Ron,
I hope you keep checking on this and your other threads periodically because the information is both valuable and fascinating. Can you comment on the robustness of the SCAR 17, particularly the full auto variants and the round counts? I'm curious as to whether you have experienced what has been alleged by some who have made comments to the effect of, "the rifle literally beats itself apart?" |
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Originally Posted By Copperjacket:
Ron, I hope you keep checking on this and your other threads periodically because the information is both valuable and fascinating. Can you comment on the robustness of the SCAR 17, particularly the full auto variants and the round counts? I'm curious as to whether you have experienced what has been alleged by some who have made comments to the effect of, "the rifle literally beats itself apart?" Here's a SCAR-17 that one of the RSO's brought back to me today. He stated that he couldn't get the bolt to go all the way home so he grabbed another and brought this one back. It's a full-auto SCAR-17 (heavy) and has been on the line for approximately two years. It's used more in the "sniper" configuration with a suppressor, scope and bipod but we do let customers use it full-auto as well. I always wondered if the suppressor had any negative affects on it (not blaming the suppressor) but I wonder if it had anything to do with it. Our SCAR-16's are run full-auto every day of the week with NO suppressor and they'v never suffered a failure like this. There is no other evidence of wear or "beating itself apart" apparent on the receiver, lower housing for bolt carrier group. 
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Originally Posted By Copperjacket:
Wow, I never even considered that part could be a potential failure point. Do you have a rough estimate of the round count? Also, if memory serves, that particular piece is polymer and should be replaceable...is that the assessment of your armorers? That part is steel. Has 3 bolts from the outside of the receiver that screw into that rail. That rail is what the cam pin rides on in the receiver. Interested to know: round count optic suppressor maker (I under stand it isn't the suppressors fault this part broke, just curios) ammo used |
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Originally Posted By Slacker:
Commercial use such as rental guns Really separate the tools from the toys. FPNI. Same with tools or really anything else. Want to buy a new lawnmower, chainsaw, drill, etc? Go to a tool rental place and see what they have. It can take the abuse. |
FN products handle stress VERY well (Page 1 of 4)
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