User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 5/27/2016 8:22:30 AM EDT
[#1]
M4s existed prior to may of 1986?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2016 9:29:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Enhanced M4 was created circa 2010 for the Individual Carbine competition.
M4 was designed 1988, put into service 1994. I've sent the broker an email as to how these are transferable. Waiting to hear back. I have theories as to what these really are. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2016 9:47:18 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Enhanced M4 was created circa 2010 for the Individual Carbine competition. M4 was designed 1988, put into service 1994. I've sent the broker an email as to how these are transferable. Waiting to hear back. I have theories as to what these really are. There is some discussion on other boards about their "provenance" / previous owners .......and what they are / aren't......... "grey area" is the term I'd use.....but ATF seems to continually allow the transfers of the Colt "remanufactured" guns............. I'd personally be nervous tying my $$ up in one...... |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2016 12:47:05 PM EDT
[#4]
I was offered these before target master got them. I couldn't see putting my money into them. Kinda like those replaced Oly M16's that are running around.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2016 1:06:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is some discussion on other boards about their "provenance" / previous owners .......and what they are / aren't......... "grey area" is the term I'd use.....but ATF seems to continually allow the transfers of the Colt "remanufactured" guns............. I'd personally be nervous tying my $$ up in one...... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Enhanced M4 was created circa 2010 for the Individual Carbine competition. M4 was designed 1988, put into service 1994. I've sent the broker an email as to how these are transferable. Waiting to hear back. I have theories as to what these really are. There is some discussion on other boards about their "provenance" / previous owners .......and what they are / aren't......... "grey area" is the term I'd use.....but ATF seems to continually allow the transfers of the Colt "remanufactured" guns............. I'd personally be nervous tying my $$ up in one...... Links to discussions? I agree with you, seems like a huge problem waiting to happen. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2016 1:52:00 PM EDT
[#6]
They are listing a transferrable "Balimoy" as well.......with a very odd serial #........
I didn't think Balimoy actually started making receivers till '88, and they were all in the 7,000,000-7,429,766 serial # range........could be wrong though |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2016 3:07:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Danger, Will Robinson!!!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2016 4:27:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Unlike some of the other guns these appear to at least have proper A2 style forgings vs. the obvious late model forgings that didn't exist pre-86.
Only way I could see these being legal is that Colt had transferable M16A2 receivers that had yet to be rollmarked and these were rollmarked M4 post-86 but with pre-86 transferable receivers. Given all these recent *unique* Colts coming onto the market in the past year or two its certainly seems like some sort of insider at Colt got a bunch of guns made on old paper or remanufactured with old serial numbers. Either that or somebody invented a time machine. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2016 5:08:59 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Given all these recent *unique* Colts coming onto the market in the past year or two its certainly seems like some sort of insider at Colt got a bunch of guns made on old paper or remanufactured with old serial numbers. Either that or somebody invented a time machine. My supposition is they were early 2000's replacements when ATF still allowed the original manufacturer to replace receivers with new ones remanufactured with the same serial numbers, under a variance letter. ATF shut down that practice around 2003, iirc. If so, they're in a gray area, and under current ATF guidelines would be reclassified as post-samples. In the recent past, ATF has allowed the current owner to retain such examples, but forbid them from further transfers in the future. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2016 5:29:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unlike some of the other guns these appear to at least have proper A2 style forgings vs. the obvious late model forgings that didn't exist pre-86. Only way I could see these being legal is that Colt had transferable M16A2 receivers that had yet to be rollmarked and these were rollmarked M4 post-86 but with pre-86 transferable receivers. Given all these recent *unique* Colts coming onto the market in the past year or two its certainly seems like some sort of insider at Colt got a bunch of guns made on old paper or remanufactured with old serial numbers. Either that or somebody invented a time machine. Some are saying this has happened as late as 2011 (give or take a few years) Just pay close attention to the SN# ranges on these "A2's"........ |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2016 8:00:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My supposition is they were early 2000's replacements when ATF still allowed the original manufacturer to replace receivers with new ones remanufactured with the same serial numbers, under a variance letter. ATF shut down that practice around 2003, iirc. If so, they're in a gray area, and under current ATF guidelines would be reclassified as post-samples. In the recent past, ATF has allowed the current owner to retain such examples, but forbid them from further transfers in the future. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Given all these recent *unique* Colts coming onto the market in the past year or two its certainly seems like some sort of insider at Colt got a bunch of guns made on old paper or remanufactured with old serial numbers. Either that or somebody invented a time machine. My supposition is they were early 2000's replacements when ATF still allowed the original manufacturer to replace receivers with new ones remanufactured with the same serial numbers, under a variance letter. ATF shut down that practice around 2003, iirc. If so, they're in a gray area, and under current ATF guidelines would be reclassified as post-samples. In the recent past, ATF has allowed the current owner to retain such examples, but forbid them from further transfers in the future. Just be aware that federal court case law has repeatedly slapped down ATF for their practices, ruling that "grandfathering" is a power reserved for Congress. The courts have ruled that ATF does indeed have the authority to determine what is or is not a machine gun; however, once it has done so, the classification (transferable, pre-'86 dealer sample, post'86 dealer sample) defaults to Congressional law. Therefore, whenever ATF "shuts down" a practice, according to federal case law it must be applied retroactively. 
I am not an attorney, and YMMV. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/2/2016 4:26:01 PM EDT
[#12]
My thoughts are the same listed above. They're pretty cool though, that I'll add.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
