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Posted: 6/6/2015 1:20:33 PM EDT
My new acquisition. Yes COLTM16A2 is the serial number and no this has not been Photoshoped.
My question is concerning the lack of Colt's roll mark. Any one familiar with or knows why Colt's rampant Colt and/or serpentine Colt roll mark is missing? 
ETA 
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Posted: 6/6/2015 1:35:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Wat |
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Posted: 6/6/2015 1:37:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Seems legit.
  Any more back story? cost?
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Posted: 6/6/2015 2:00:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Colt tool room guns sometimes have some odd S/Ns, but normally something with an "x" in it. This work looks like raw aluminum under the anodizing?
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Posted: 6/6/2015 2:12:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Re-weld?
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Posted: 6/6/2015 3:27:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
My new acquisition. Yes COLTM16A2 is the serial number and no this has not been Photoshoped. My question is concerning the lack of Colt's roll mark. Any one familiar with or knows why Colt's rampant Colt and/or serpentine Colt roll mark is missing? http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee467/cmacaz/IMG_93621.jpg http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee467/cmacaz/IMG_93631.jpg http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee467/cmacaz/IMG_93641.jpg I hope you didn't pay Colt M16A2 price for that. What a joke. Who did you buy it from? Looks like a Form 1 Re-Weld. ETA What does the form 3/4 say? |
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Posted: 6/6/2015 3:31:36 PM EDT
[#6]
That does not resemble the M-16 that I was issued.
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Posted: 6/6/2015 8:51:29 PM EDT
[#7]
In all my years with Colts I've never seen something like that..ever
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Posted: 6/7/2015 8:03:22 PM EDT
[#8]
I would contact Colt and ask for a history on the firearm.
I'd bet it is a reweld. |
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Posted: 6/7/2015 8:25:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would contact Colt and ask for a history on the firearm. I'd bet it is a reweld. Get it X-Rayed |
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Posted: 6/7/2015 8:33:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Definitely not original, IMO - FOIA in you near future.
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Posted: 6/7/2015 9:00:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryI hope you didn't pay Colt M16A2 price for that. This |
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Posted: 6/8/2015 12:25:10 AM EDT
[#12]
After studying the roll marks, it looks like a magazine well re-weld makes the most sense. Often the re-welds were cut through the "Colt's Firearms Division" roll mark area so you see evidence of a repair at that location (although most of those I have seen have been earlier M16 or M16A1 guns). No evidence of that here, and if you wanted to account for the lack of other Colt markings and the unusual S/N then a clean A2 style magazine well re-weld makes the most sense. That also helps account for the dark finish (although you do see those on some of the later A2s). I think an x-ray of the receiver will be the key to solving this mystery.
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Posted: 6/8/2015 12:57:33 AM EDT
[#13]
The Form 3 says it was made by Colt but I have read about re-welds listing Colt as a manufacturer as ATF was less particular back in the day. Some forms "morphed" over the years.....like MACs.....
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Posted: 6/9/2015 11:16:03 AM EDT
[#14]
Why do lines 4 and 6 both say "transferee" instead of line 6 saying "transferor" (like on the ATF's form)? Is it just an old form that had typo's? |
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Posted: 6/9/2015 1:15:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do lines 4 and 6 both say "transferee" instead of line 6 saying "transferor" (like on the ATF's form)? Is it just an old form that had typo's? https://www.atf.gov/file/61541/download Older form with known error. |
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Posted: 6/9/2015 2:59:05 PM EDT
[#16]
I think I can see the heat affected zone causing variations in the anodizing. I believe its a re-weld. They did a great job on the welding but that logo is way off.
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Posted: 6/9/2015 6:00:09 PM EDT
[#17]
someone probaby welded over a real M16A2 and remarked it with serial number that was registered pre or post 86, depending on whether a transferable or not.
Not unheard of since some Class 2's had a rep pre86 for registering previously unregistered MGs to make them transferable. Nice that this picture A2 has actual A2 receiver reinforcements. A friend had a legit M16A2 carbine that was actually built on a A1 receiver but with A2 markings and rollmarks with AUTO selector. Paperwork was original from Colt in 1985 through Armex to a PD, then sold/traded to a Class 3 in Texas named Autoarms. 
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Posted: 6/9/2015 11:12:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Wow, that's a new one.
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Posted: 6/10/2015 12:14:41 AM EDT
[#19]
Look original damn hard to tell.
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Posted: 6/11/2015 3:40:52 PM EDT
[#20]
A1 rear sight also.
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Posted: 6/12/2015 8:38:20 AM EDT
[#21]
Wow.. hope you got a deal on that.
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Posted: 6/13/2015 9:07:35 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
A1 rear sight also. I thought almost all transferable Colt M16A2 carbines had A1 sights. I am only talking about true pre-86 guns and not including the somewhat recently available A2 carbines that were clearly remanufactured post-86. OP, I would put a call in to Dennis Todd and send him these photos. In the off chance this is a Colt tool room gun, he would know. |
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Posted: 6/20/2015 11:59:28 AM EDT
[#23]
That's gotta be a reweld. Please have it xrayed and post pics!
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Posted: 6/20/2015 12:12:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would contact Colt and ask for a history on the firearm. I'd bet it is a reweld. Colt doesn't do history letters on NFA weapons. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 12:55:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Bump....
Any update? |
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Posted: 8/12/2015 12:57:30 AM EDT
[#26]
Update
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Posted: 8/12/2015 1:09:59 AM EDT
[#27]
[sic] "If we were lied to by the '(retired) long time Colt employee' it's not our fault you bought our secondhand story"
Maybe the "former Colt employee"'s story is even true - but they're expecting full value while distancing themselves from the provenance, IMO. Let us know how it works out. |
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Posted: 8/12/2015 11:30:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Colt tool room guns have been around for years so this certainly sounds like a plausible explanation. I've seen some weird ones over the years.
The only thing I would recommend at this point is to actually take that extra step and try to get some provenance from the "30 year Colt employee". I don't see why the shop couldn't try and put you in touch with him somehow. If you paid anywhere near the current retail for a new Colt M16A2 carbine, you'd be a fool not to. Should you ever decide to sell that provenance will be vital to say an advanced collector that has everything and wants rare Colt tool room M16's. To the masses it comes across as a shady gun with fugly roll marks...most normal buyers won't touch it. If you plan on keeping it forever and shooting the piss out of it.....you know, actually enjoying it and passing it down to junior. Then none of what I posted above means anything. Enjoy... |
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Posted: 8/12/2015 11:55:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: with fugly roll marks.... Not to split hairs, but it looks engraved not roll marked. Ruben had some tool room guns recently that had engraved serial numbers IIRC, but they started with "x" and had a roll marked Colt badge on them. I agree that some more research would be interesting if the buyer could track down the former Colt employee. |
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Posted: 8/21/2015 1:53:12 AM EDT
[#30]
tag for outcome
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Posted: 8/25/2015 8:57:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not to split hairs, but it looks engraved not roll marked. Ruben had some tool room guns recently that had engraved serial numbers IIRC, but they started with "x" and had a roll marked Colt badge on them. I agree that some more research would be interesting if the buyer could track down the former Colt employee. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: with fugly roll marks.... Not to split hairs, but it looks engraved not roll marked. Ruben had some tool room guns recently that had engraved serial numbers IIRC, but they started with "x" and had a roll marked Colt badge on them. I agree that some more research would be interesting if the buyer could track down the former Colt employee. yep, definitely engraved. See back in the day people had much better metal working skills, compared that to some recent engraving attempts on the SBR board... 
I could buy the odd serial number as a number of things, museum piece or salesman sample. But the engraving plus the font used for Colt, wtf. I would get that thing x-rayed. |
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