Has anyone seen this auction?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=539154211


It's an auction for an 'M2 trigger' that can turn any M1 into a full auto, allegedly.


I can not find any info on this trigger. Why is it called an M2 trigger? Is it originally intended for the family of M2 guns (which means you can't then drop it into an M1)? Why is it not called an M1 trigger? Something seems off.


Also, does M1 mean an M1A1?


How easy is it to use? Is it a simple drop in, or does it require smithing?


I'm very interested, but I am cautious.

Only physical difference between the M1 carbine and M2 (select-fire) carbine is in the trigger group.

A registered and serialled M2 trigger group constitutes a machinegun conversion device, that can legally convert a semi M1 carbine to a select-fire "M2-like" configuration.

Thanks.

So it's an M1 carbine trigger group, not for the M1A1.

The M1A1 differences are also not materially in the receiver or the trigger group - guessing it'll still work fine for any M1/M2/M3 carbine variant.

IMHO, the item in the auction falls in the same questionable category as the married sear guns (i.e. The sear is the MG and should have been registered, but a semi auto firearm was registered instead.  In an M2 conversion kit, the registered part is supposed to be one of the parts in the ATF specified conversion kit.  The trigger housing is not one of those parts...

The sear is not the "MG" on an M-2 (not on the ATF's "7 parts" list either ), or in any registered M2 conversion kit.....99.99% of registered M-2 "kits" have either the lever or trigger housing as the serial #'d part......

It's kosher......having a registered housing is actually more desirable than a registered high-wear (and somewhat fragile) part like a lever.....

That is an interesting question.

The seven restricted M2 parts are the hammer, selector lever, selector lever spring, disco lever, disconnector, disconnector spring, ad disconnector plunger.

These parts have been classified by the ATF as having no other purpose than to convert an semi-automatic M1 into a machinegun.  

Therefore possession of some or all of these 7 parts with a semi-auto M1 and/or having these parts installed into an M1 is somewhat analogous to being in possession of an M16 hammer, trigger, disconnector, and selector along with an AR15. (or have them installed into an AR15)  

Get caught with these parts in your AR15 or your M1 carbine (the more you have the worse it probably is from a legal standpoint) and it could be bad news for you if caught by the proper authorities.

That said there are some M2 specific parts that the ATF doesn't consider as specifically designed to convert a M1 into a machinegun and can legally be used in an M1.  These are the M2 stock, trigger frame, sear, and slide.  These parts are sort of like an M16 bolt carrier.  While designed for use in the M16, the M16 bolt carrier can be used in an AR15 as it really doesn’t convert an AR15 into a machinegun.

As circuits mentioned the M1 is somewhat unique in the machinegun world in that the M1 receiver itself requires no modification to use factory designed parts to convert it mechanically into an M2 machinegun.  

In this case while certain M2 specific parts are specifically considered machinegun conversion parts unto themselves…the question is….. does that necessarily preclude you from registering another non-restricted M2 part (like the trigger frame) as the machinegun conversion device when combined with all the other listed parts above?  

I don’t recall ever seeing an official ruling stating that you had to register one of the 7 initial parts listed above and you couldn’t register the trigger frame itself which holds those 7 parts as long as all those parts were together as a conversion kit at the time of registration. (for practical purposes only the selector, disco, hammer, and disco lever could be engraved anyway).  I have also seen registered M2 slides as well (which in my estimation is a bit more of a stretch from a legal perspective)

I could see it similar to an HK or AUG conversion trigger packs that use a conversion style sear but the actual NFA engraving is on the fire control box or hammer pack body itself.  (I think that lafrance did some like this)

From a modern day standpoint, assuming you were converting a PS90 to a machinegun via a modification to the semi hammer pack.  This can be done with no mods to the hammer pack itself and with just a small piece of bent wire.   I would think you would engrave the hammer pack body itself (even though its not technically a restricted part) as it is now one of a combination of parts intended specifically to convert a PS90 to machinegun and the most convenient part to engrave.

There are certainly a lot of M2 fire-control conversion kits out there and some of them have the NFA markings on the trigger frame itself making for easier identification once installed.

As to the OPs question about usage.   This pack would drop into any virtually any type of M1 carbine and all you would have to do was make sure the stock had the proper relief cutouts and the correct M2 slide was used.  Think of this like M2 conversion kit to a DLO HK box but that still requires a full auto carrier to work.

I didn't mean to specifically apply the term in the context of an M2 carbine as the term is not valid.  Jbntex gets the point I was trying to make.

By "sear gun" I am referring to a generic situation more commonly found in HK pattern guns and some RDIAS.  The conversion part that is considered the MG was not serialized or registered but the non-MG component was.   It is analogous to married "bolt guns" that are more commonly found in the Uzi.  


Of course it is.  I'm sure in some cases over time serial numbers have been transferred from levers to housings for this reason (not saying that's the case here).  Definitely not kosher...This has been done on Uzis with married slotted bolts, where the slotted bolt was discarded (or sold on Gunbroker in some cases ) and the receiver modified to full auto specs.

I am of the impression that the full group of part by itself is a MG, since it converts an M1 to M2.  No semi auto carbine required.  See page 12.

I have never researched it fully to know if owning all 7 parts (but nothing else) is like owning a complete M16 FCG including a sear (but no AR15) or if they are considered to be like a post-81 DIAS or HK Sear and a machinegun unto themselves.

Its certainly an odd situation where all the individual parts are available for sale and it would be technically legal to own everything but say the disconnector coil spring.

Overall, legal hair-splitting aside, its probably just a good idea not to own any of the seven listed M2 parts regardless of your M1 ownership status unless you have a verified legal reason to do so.   (like owning a registered M2 or conversion kit)

I've always read that if you own so many of the 7, like 3 or 4 its a "machine gun". Registered kits can be used on the M1s as far as I understand.