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Posted: 2/28/2015 9:09:46 PM EDT
[#1]
SBSes are stupid. 4" less barrel isn't worth the $200 and shorter than that really cuts down on the ammo capacity. The exception would be something like a Saiga 12 or a Black Aces Mossberg, where the mag capacity isn't affected by the barrel length.
I say this as the owner of a 14" 870. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 9:25:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for posting. I've been considering a 12" just to round out the collection, but I don't shoot the 18" I already have...
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Posted: 2/28/2015 11:47:39 PM EDT
[#3]
I went with the M4 Entry. I love it. Its amazing. Its fun. Its seriously a joy to shoot. Its also for no other reason than having fun enjoying all the shooting hobby has to offer. I'll skip any debates over practicality and comment on the shotgun itself: quality is A+, accurate, comfortable, do not regret the purchase in any way. I consider the investment worth every penny from that perspective. YMMV, of course.
Oh, and obligatory pics. I just installed an over-sized bolt handle today. Thinking about new hand guard now... 
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Posted: 3/1/2015 12:00:03 AM EDT
[#4]
I have a 14" 870 with a spare 12.5" barrel, but it almost never comes out of the safe. The Benelli M4 is a sweet looking SBS and if you really like shotguns there isn't a reason not to go for it.
My issues is that I'm not a fan of shotguns for anything other than shooting birds. I form 1'd a SBS because it seemed like a great idea in my youth and now it attracts attention when friends look in the safe, but I haven't shot it in a few years. |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 12:00:22 AM EDT
[#5]
I went with the M4 Entry. That does look really cool. Did you replace any parts for 922(r) compliance? |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 12:01:51 PM EDT
[#6]
I didn't convert it/Form1. I bought that new on a form 4 transfer, its model #11724. (I believe the GB link you have is a model 11722)
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Posted: 3/1/2015 7:03:47 PM EDT
[#7]
I picked up one of the pd trade in, SBS 590's for 275.00 as I wanted a SBS.
I also liked the look of the 870 Wingmaster with VR barrel, like this: 
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Posted: 3/1/2015 8:28:17 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks to all who have replied so far. Great pics!
Although I had originally been thinking about buying a factory SBS and doing a dealer transfer, it looks like putting a 14" factory barrel on a Remington 870 would be very straightforward, and with just as good of an end result. Also quite a bit faster to register/make myself using eForms vs the Frm 3 + Frm 4 wait if I go through a dealer. Anybody taken this path? Thanks... SD |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 8:33:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks to all who have replied so far. Great pics! Although I had originally been thinking about buying a factory SBS and doing a dealer transfer, it looks like putting a 14" factory barrel on a Remington 870 would be very straightforward, and with just as good of an end result. Also quite a bit faster to register/make myself using eForms vs the Frm 3 + Frm 4 wait if I go through a dealer. Anybody taken this path? Thanks... SD I just efiled my 870. Approx 30-45 days, cut barrel to 12.5" , engrave barrel, and GTG |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 11:00:13 PM EDT
[#10]
I just efiled my 870. Approx 30-45 days, cut barrel to 12.5" , engrave barrel, and GTG For my SBR's, I've always engraved the receiver; but engraving the barrel itself makes a lot of sense for this platform-- especially since I'll retain the original (non-NFA) barrel. |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 11:03:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For my SBR's, I've always engraved the receiver; but engraving the barrel itself makes a lot of sense for this platform-- especially since I'll retain the original (non-NFA) barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just efiled my 870. Approx 30-45 days, cut barrel to 12.5" , engrave barrel, and GTG For my SBR's, I've always engraved the receiver; but engraving the barrel itself makes a lot of sense for this platform-- especially since I'll retain the original (non-NFA) barrel. Agreed. I always engrave receivers too but with the SBS, I won't be switching "uppers", etc like a SBR, so it just makes sense to engrave the one short barrel |
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Posted: 3/2/2015 4:28:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Tromix S17. IMHO, that's all there is to know about SBS.
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Posted: 3/7/2015 12:17:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Put in a form 1 last night to SBS my Stoeger Coach Gun to 12".
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Posted: 3/7/2015 12:20:27 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm now a couple days in on a F1. Just need to get my receiver engraved.
Thanks a lot... 
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Posted: 3/8/2015 9:55:02 AM EDT
[#15]
These new Vepr 12's are intriguing. 12" barrel, with an extension attached to make them non NFA. After you do the form 1, you could have the extension removed. These are factory SBS setups, to include the gas ports, etc...
VEPR 12 FACTORY SBS W BARREL EXTENSION If I didn't already have a Vepr12 getting converted to a 14" SBS, I'd be all over this. |
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Posted: 3/16/2015 5:28:18 PM EDT
[#16]
I just did a form 1 on an 870 I have had for 15 years. I sent a 12" factory barrel off for threading because I think a Salvo might be in my future.
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Posted: 3/16/2015 8:03:22 PM EDT
[#17]
I have a 12" 870 and like it but haven't shot it a lot. I've had some shoulder and back problems so I've been avoiding a lot of recoil.
With light loads it is not bad at all. With heavy magnum buck shot and slugs, it can be a bit unpleasant. After I had It a while I added a much thicker recoil pad and that helped a lot. I sent my barrel off to have it shortened and threaded for choke tubes. Some folks said that threading for tubes was a waste of money but it did make a big difference in patterns with buck shot. I've been itching to get it out shoot it more. I had back surgery last November and as soon as the doc says it's ok, it will be going to the range. 
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Posted: 3/16/2015 10:01:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SBSes are stupid. 4" less barrel isn't worth the $200 and shorter than that really cuts down on the ammo capacity. The exception would be something like a Saiga 12 or a Black Aces Mossberg, where the mag capacity isn't affected by the barrel length. I say this as the owner of a 14" 870. I ain't saying they aren't stupid, but SBS are the smile maker. Especially if you have the 12 gauge auto-loader. 
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Posted: 3/16/2015 10:39:54 PM EDT
[#19]
I see some comments about engraving the barrel instead of receiver, and wonder why?
Doesn't seem to be any downside to engraving the receiver and then you can have multiple short barrels. In my case, I can see a use for a super-short for HD and then a 16" for turkey hunting. It's AMAZING how much more useable my 18.5" 870 is when calling the thunder chickens. I find significant benefit of the 18.5 over a 21" I also have. |
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Posted: 3/17/2015 11:24:56 AM EDT
[#20]
I went with a Mossberg 590 for an SBS. The main reason is because the magazine tube isn't soldered in like on the 870, and I can unscrew and swap tubes... From a two round tube with a 10 inch barrel, to an 8 round tube, and anything in between.
People do that with 870s to some extent, but it's with extensions, rather than a continuous mag tube. |
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Posted: 3/17/2015 12:10:30 PM EDT
[#21]
This size weapon is pretty handy in a small space, like here in the cab of a tractor. This 870 looks a whole lot more used after bouncing around for more than a year in this role.
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Posted: 3/17/2015 1:34:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Thanks to everyone that has posted comments and pics - some very nice
looking guns out there... I see some comments about engraving the barrel instead of receiver, and wonder why? My thinking on this matter is that if I, for instance, wanted to take this gun hunting across state lines, I could put (for instance) a 22" barrel on it and it's indistinguishable from any plain old Title 1 Remington 870 (and there are many). As for having multiple barrel lengths for this platform, the only 'extra' barrel I plan to have is the "stock" (non-NFA) barrel that came with this gun. And in the event this plan changes I can either just engrave the additional barrel(s) or just come back and engrave the receiver at a later date. And if I decide to sell it (unlikely), it would take maybe 1 minute to put it back into the "stock" configuration and unload it as a Title 1 weapon (no NFA fees or hassles). Certainly, either approach is valid, it's just that engraving the barrel makes more sense for my potential plans for the gun... YMMV. |
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Posted: 3/17/2015 1:56:07 PM EDT
[#23]
I didn't convert it/Form1. I bought that new on a form 4 transfer, its model #11724. (I believe the GB link you have is a model 11722) Meant to f/u on this comment earlier. So yeah, I've seen the 14" M4's for sale on Gunbroker, e.g., a current auction-- http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=473378231 ...and wonder if you could be hassled for owning this (non-LE, non-military), if it had the Benelli collapsible stock and pistol grip (this particular one doesn't). To be specific: the magazine capacity is < 5 rds, however... the presence of the collapsible stock and pistol grip (not in the auction link, but the pic in this thread) would seem to violate the ATF's statement on 922r (LINK here). |
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Posted: 3/17/2015 3:10:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meant to f/u on this comment earlier. So yeah, I've seen the 14" M4's for sale on Gunbroker, e.g., a current auction-- http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=473378231 ...and wonder if you could be hassled for owning this (non-LE, non-military), if it had the Benelli collapsible stock and pistol grip (this particular one doesn't). To be specific: the magazine capacity is < 5 rds, however... the presence of the collapsible stock and pistol grip (not in the auction link, but the pic in this thread) would seem to violate the ATF's statement on 922r (LINK here) Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't convert it/Form1. I bought that new on a form 4 transfer, its model #11724. (I believe the GB link you have is a model 11722) Meant to f/u on this comment earlier. So yeah, I've seen the 14" M4's for sale on Gunbroker, e.g., a current auction-- http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=473378231 ...and wonder if you could be hassled for owning this (non-LE, non-military), if it had the Benelli collapsible stock and pistol grip (this particular one doesn't). To be specific: the magazine capacity is < 5 rds, however... the presence of the collapsible stock and pistol grip (not in the auction link, but the pic in this thread) would seem to violate the ATF's statement on 922r (LINK here) This doesn't answer your question directly (I don't know which ATF ruling is current) but realize that it's only a 922(r) violation when someone assembles a semi auto rifle or shotgun in a 922(r)-banned configuration. It's not illegal to possess such a rifle or shotgun. |
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Posted: 3/17/2015 3:47:41 PM EDT
[#25]
This doesn't answer your question directly (I don't know which ATF ruling is current) but realize
that it's only a 922(r) violation when someone assembles a semi auto rifle or shotgun in a 922(r)- banned configuration. It's not illegal to possess such a rifle or shotgun Well... it's not illegal to possess it if it was either imported or manufactured legally. I'm pretty sure that if (for instance) a firearm were illegally imported/constructed, at a minimum it could be potentially seized if it came to the attention of the ATF. This "law" would be irrelevant otherwise. Now, I will admit that (like most of these 922r discussions) enforcement against end user individuals seems to be lacking, but the same thing could be said of all the "constructive possession" threads on this board (and other forums). My attitude is that it's not worth potentially compromising an entire collection for the sake of one "sketchy" item (especially when you can typically get what you want completely legally by just purchasing a few parts). |
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Posted: 3/17/2015 8:24:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks to everyone that has posted comments and pics - some very nice looking guns out there... My thinking on this matter is that if I, for instance, wanted to take this gun hunting across state lines, I could put (for instance) a 22" barrel on it and it's indistinguishable from any plain old Title 1 Remington 870 (and there are many). As for having multiple barrel lengths for this platform, the only 'extra' barrel I plan to have is the "stock" (non-NFA) barrel that came with this gun. And in the event this plan changes I can either just engrave the additional barrel(s) or just come back and engrave the receiver at a later date. And if I decide to sell it (unlikely), it would take maybe 1 minute to put it back into the "stock" configuration and unload it as a Title 1 weapon (no NFA fees or hassles). Certainly, either approach is valid, it's just that engraving the barrel makes more sense for my potential plans for the gun... YMMV. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks to everyone that has posted comments and pics - some very nice looking guns out there... I see some comments about engraving the barrel instead of receiver, and wonder why? My thinking on this matter is that if I, for instance, wanted to take this gun hunting across state lines, I could put (for instance) a 22" barrel on it and it's indistinguishable from any plain old Title 1 Remington 870 (and there are many). As for having multiple barrel lengths for this platform, the only 'extra' barrel I plan to have is the "stock" (non-NFA) barrel that came with this gun. And in the event this plan changes I can either just engrave the additional barrel(s) or just come back and engrave the receiver at a later date. And if I decide to sell it (unlikely), it would take maybe 1 minute to put it back into the "stock" configuration and unload it as a Title 1 weapon (no NFA fees or hassles). Certainly, either approach is valid, it's just that engraving the barrel makes more sense for my potential plans for the gun... YMMV. Just because the receiver is engraved doesn't mean it can't be sold as a Title 1 weapon. I see the point about a potential purchaser balking at someone else's trust name on it, but, for me, the utility in having the receiver engraved outweighs the downside. As far as distinguishing your engraved gun from any other 870 out there, I just can't see it being an issue in any kind of case. Is Johnny Law going to ask questions why you have your trust engraved? If he's looking at it that closely you've got bigger problems. But, to each his own. |
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Posted: 3/20/2015 9:11:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SBSes are stupid. 4" less barrel isn't worth the $200 and shorter than that really cuts down on the ammo capacity. Unless you want LOTS of stopping power is a VERY compact package. A short double barrel is compact and nasty at close range. 10"~ 12" is a sweet spot ( IMHO ) for length and ammo capacity and fun to shoot all day. 
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Posted: 3/21/2015 8:48:02 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SBSes are stupid. 4" less barrel isn't worth the $200 and shorter than that really cuts down on the ammo capacity. If you hadn't limited your options with buying a Remington, you could put whatever size magazine and barrel you wanted on there. |
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Posted: 4/12/2015 10:38:43 AM EDT
[#29]
My 870 SBS is mostly complete. Needs a paint job and sights..
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Posted: 4/12/2015 8:06:04 PM EDT
[#30]
SBS M4. Factory model 11724.
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Posted: 4/13/2015 9:12:23 AM EDT
[#31]
Took the wife deer hunting this year. Wife made the comment she was having a hard time keeping the muzzel off the ground. So i handed her our(trust) sbs and i took her 870.I started off with my 14" 870 and by the end of day and the week I had the realization that -4" ment alot in the woods, hills, and crossing streams. So I just sent off another form for a Cleo Sig. Starting the wait for another 14" 870.
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Posted: 4/13/2015 5:29:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well... it's not illegal to possess it if it was either imported or manufactured legally. I'm pretty sure that if (for instance) a firearm were illegally imported/constructed, at a minimum it could be potentially seized if it came to the attention of the ATF. This "law" would be irrelevant otherwise. Quote HistoryQuoted: This doesn't answer your question directly (I don't know which ATF ruling is current) but realize that it's only a 922(r) violation when someone assembles a semi auto rifle or shotgun in a 922(r)- banned configuration. It's not illegal to possess such a rifle or shotgun Well... it's not illegal to possess it if it was either imported or manufactured legally. I'm pretty sure that if (for instance) a firearm were illegally imported/constructed, at a minimum it could be potentially seized if it came to the attention of the ATF. This "law" would be irrelevant otherwise. No, CleverNickname is correct. It actually IS legal to possess EVEN IF it was assembled illegally, which is why 992(r) basically is irrelevant in practice. Actual assembly of the non-compliant firearm is the only crime defined by 922(r). Possession is not a crime. You'd basically have to admit you did it. Don't do that. Assemble, I mean... Don't assemble it unlawfully.  The only people I ever hear or see asking are other gun enthusiasts. |
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Posted: 4/13/2015 10:52:38 PM EDT
[#33]
These are my two NFA shotguns:
 l love my M1 Entry! The 870 is less useful except for breaching doors, but it's also a ton of fun. I thought about building a stocked 870, but I already have the M1, so there's really no way for a pump-action to compete. My next will probably be a VEPR-12 or Benelli M4. |
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Posted: 4/15/2015 12:02:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Just saying...
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Posted: 4/15/2015 7:43:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryNice! |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 8:03:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a 14" 870 with a spare 12.5" barrel, but it almost never comes out of the safe. The Benelli M4 is a sweet looking SBS and if you really like shotguns there isn't a reason not to go for it. My issues is that I'm not a fan of shotguns for anything other than shooting birds. I form 1'd a SBS because it seemed like a great idea in my youth and now it attracts attention when friends look in the safe, but I haven't shot it in a few years. This, I own lots of shotguns but don't know why. My most hated firearm is actually the M4, I have maybe shot it 3 times. My SBS and AOWs NEVER come to the range. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 8:28:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Here's my 14" mossberg 590a1 SBS that was part of the 275.00 delivered deal. One small ding behind the triggergard but normal wear besides that.
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Posted: 4/17/2015 8:37:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Have an M4 entry myself. Only thing I maybe don't like about it is it's weight...it's a heavy bitch. But I love it. It's such an awesome shotgun, is completely reliable, and other people always want to shoot it.
I'd like to have a short-ish 870 though, mainly because of the weight savings. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 1:04:01 AM EDT
[#39]
I will throw a pic in this thread.
My Tromix Saiga-12 Its definitely a attention getter at the range..... but its got some wicked recoil and muzzle blast and will make sure you have some hair on your peaches to put more than a couple mags through it. 
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Posted: 4/20/2015 11:28:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I ain't saying they aren't stupid, but SBS are the smile maker. Especially if you have the 12 gauge auto-loader. https://jggunsmith.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/sav_auto_sbs_blued01.jpg I have to ask: can you discuss who put that front sight on the barrel? A close-up photo of it would be great - thanks. |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 2:10:17 AM EDT
[#41]
No, CleverNickname is correct. It actually IS legal to possess EVEN IF it was assembled illegally,
which is why 992(r) basically is irrelevant in practice. Actual assembly of the non-compliant firearm is the only crime defined by 922(r). Possession is not a crime. You'd basically have to admit you did it. Don't do that. Assemble, I mean... Don't assemble it unlawfully. The only people I ever hear or see asking are other gun enthusiasts. People have been debating this for a long time, and until there is established case law (I can't personally find any at the moment), no doubt this debate will continue. BUT -I don't want to be the test case. I agree that -- barring an outright admission of guilt -- a person most likely could elude a criminal conviction under 922r alone. But, at a minimum, the weapon could be seized as "contraband". It would be just like being caught with stolen property-- saying "you didn't know it was stolen" doesn't mean that you can keep it. |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 4:07:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have to ask: can you discuss who put that front sight on the barrel? A close-up photo of it would be great - thanks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I ain't saying they aren't stupid, but SBS are the smile maker. Especially if you have the 12 gauge auto-loader. https://jggunsmith.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/sav_auto_sbs_blued01.jpg I have to ask: can you discuss who put that front sight on the barrel? A close-up photo of it would be great - thanks. I am a gunsmith and I made it. The base is a Ruger Blackhawk front sight, which I cut the blade off of, dovetailed, and soldiered to the barrel. The blade is a really short Dawson Precision tritium 1911 front sight, around .140" tall. The white dot was recolored with lime green highlight. 
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Posted: 4/23/2015 12:35:12 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People have been debating this for a long time, and until there is established case law (I can't personally find any at the moment), no doubt this debate will continue. BUT -I don't want to be the test case. I agree that -- barring an outright admission of guilt -- a person most likely could elude a criminal conviction under 922r alone. But, at a minimum, the weapon could be seized as "contraband". It would be just like being caught with stolen property-- saying "you didn't know it was stolen" doesn't mean that you can keep it. You said you're not aware of any prior cases... So please, do what you feel is best to keep yourself legal and safe, but don't spread rumors which are not based on any factual events. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:33:13 PM EDT
[#44]
I have decided to SBS one of my 870s. Seems dumb to pay $200 to drop 4 inches, but screw it. Can't take it with you and I'll get a serious chub over it.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 9:34:47 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These are my two NFA shotguns: http://i59.tinypic.com/54gl80.jpg l love my M1 Entry! The 870 is less useful except for breaching doors, but it's also a ton of fun. I thought about building a stocked 870, but I already have the M1, so there's really no way for a pump-action to compete. My next will probably be a VEPR-12 or Benelli M4. Is that 870 an AOW or an SBS? The pistol grip looks like its part of a Remington factory folding stock. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 10:55:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that 870 an AOW or an SBS? The pistol grip looks like its part of a Remington factory folding stock. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: These are my two NFA shotguns: http://i59.tinypic.com/54gl80.jpg l love my M1 Entry! The 870 is less useful except for breaching doors, but it's also a ton of fun. I thought about building a stocked 870, but I already have the M1, so there's really no way for a pump-action to compete. My next will probably be a VEPR-12 or Benelli M4. Is that 870 an AOW or an SBS? The pistol grip looks like its part of a Remington factory folding stock. You're correct; that is the grip of a factory Remington LE folder. I saw some badass-looking SEAL/Army Ranger breachers with that grip (plus it was on some GI Joe figure guns I had as a kid) so I thought it was good karma when I snagged a folding stock with a spare grip piece on ebay. I scored the 50's "corn cob" fore end at my first gunsmithing job. Looked like a match made in Heaven/Ranger school/local 711 to me. Lol  A Pachmayer Vindicator grip would be more comfortable, I'm sure, but just wouldn't look as cool.  When I desire to feel extra manly, I one-hand some slugs through that bad boy. |
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Posted: 5/17/2015 6:50:33 PM EDT
[#47]
I recently did a 12.5" SBS and I love it! Maybe the fun hasn't worn off yet but mine is awesome! I had rose action sports cut the barrel, thread for chokes and also lengthen the forcing cone. It is a pleasure to shoot with very little recoil and patterns awesome with a modified choke. Great and very handy. I don't see how this is ever considered a bad thing. Go for it!!
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Posted: 5/17/2015 7:38:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I ain't saying they aren't stupid, but SBS are the smile maker. Especially if you have the 12 gauge auto-loader. https://jggunsmith.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/sav_auto_sbs_blued01.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SBSes are stupid. 4" less barrel isn't worth the $200 and shorter than that really cuts down on the ammo capacity. The exception would be something like a Saiga 12 or a Black Aces Mossberg, where the mag capacity isn't affected by the barrel length. I say this as the owner of a 14" 870. I ain't saying they aren't stupid, but SBS are the smile maker. Especially if you have the 12 gauge auto-loader. https://jggunsmith.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/sav_auto_sbs_blued01.jpg I've been thinking about doing something like this. Is your stock shorter? Also did you have to replace any parts? |
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