Im currently on the fence about an M60, I already have an m16 in transfer, and i am looking for something else to add to my small (but growing) vietnam collection. I was wondering who the main players were in manufacturing the M60 during wartime (specifically something that wouldve been in service from 67-69). I plan on keeping it in E1 Config. to keep it authentic looking. I was wondering if there was also any bring-backs out there? I'd also like to know what manufacturers/registration methods to stay away from and what kind of prices i can expect. From my limited research, they were either registered on the trunnion or receiver rail if i am not mistaken, the receiver rail method has me a bit wary as i know they developed a tool specifically for receiver stretch. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

This is a really long, open ended topic. However, as a quick summary, there are rumored to be about 200 transferable M60's in the registry. The most expensive are factory, USGI guns. You will typicall see SACO-MAREMONT, or SACO-LOWELL DEFENSE manufactured guns. These are "factory" GI guns. There were also factory non-USGI guns made by RIA (Rock Island Armory). There are guns that were made by small C2 manufacturers with a mix of GI and commercial made or remanufactured parts such as ERB and PEARL mfg. There are also rewelds. On rewelds, some actually have a rewelded trunion. Others were cut in the rear rails (before ATF ruled they had to cut the trunion) and they replaced the rails with USGI rails. Broadhead Armory made 60's like this. They are referred to as "rewelds" but there is not a single part on the gun that has been welded.

Is there any SN info to find out if said gun was produced in the 60s vs. the 80s? http://www.autoweapons.com/photos06/nov/1679m60.html Is this what id be looking for?

About the only 1960's M-60's you will find are the C&R Transferrable T-161 guns......and they are pricey.

Chances of finding a "bringback" amnesty registered '60 are nil........that would have been straight-up stolen government property during the amnesty period.....

Maremont, Saco Lowell Shops, Saco Defense are all Saco, and should be trunnion registered, RIA were made of various parts, some marked Maremont but rail registered.
All good. Various smiths made some, some were re welds, the least desirable IMHO.

All the USGI contractor guns made guns as mentioned above will be registered trunnion gun.

The Rock Island Arsenal guns will be primarily registered channels (the actual sheet metal channel box vs. the rails).    Some of the early RIA guns used demilled Saco trunnions but the registered RIA serial and/or mfg markings are  still on the sheet metal channel.  I think there was a discussion about that here or subguns recently where somebody had or was looking at an older RIA with a Saco trunnion but mixed markings.  My personal RIA gun has all the markings (Serial and Mfg Name) on the channel.

In my opinion there are positive attributes to having a registered trunnion vs. a channel and vis-a-versa.   While the M60 receiver channel can "stretch" over a very extended service life, the trunnion can develop barrel socket play allowing the barrel to wallow out the hole in the trunnion.  This is more prevalent in E1 configs where the bi-pod is on the end of the barrel and a lot of force is applied to the barrel socket on the trunnion.

For the guns that are out there you basically have two options.  

A.  A USGI contract mfg gun (SACO-Lowell, Saco-Maremont, New England-Maremont)

or

B. A Rock Island Gun "RIA"

I would personally stay away from random C2 registered or rewelded guns.  The best of these are supposed to be Charlie Erb guns but some of the pics I have seen of Erb guns are pretty rough looking.

Ultimately it just comes down to what you want to spend as a USGI contract gun will run you an extra $10K give or take now a days over an RIA gun given the same condition and config.

I don't think you are going to find an actual M60 produced and registered back in the 60s.  Even if you did, I would stay away from a 50 year old M60 unless the owner had documented proof that it didn't have 50 years worth of service and wasn't stolen .gov property.  An M60 unlike a M16 is much more difficult to repair and or determine if anything is out of spec.

Another suggestion is to read the M60 Machine Gun buyers guide by Thomas Hoel as it has a whole host of useful information for the intro M60 buyer.   Thankfully it has been published and you wont have to buy the old back copies of SAR to it anymore.

http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/html/m60_part_1.HTM

There are probably 5 or 6 of us off the top of my head who frequent this board who have 60s in various configs, so if you have any specifc questions feel free to ask.  There are also lots of good discussions in the archives here as well regarding M60 purchases.

Love my M60 - it's an RIA gun.  My understanding is about 500 RIA guns in the registry, so there are way more than 200 total M60s - I'd guess at least 2000 and likely more.  I understand your desire for a "Vietnam" style E1 gun, but the newer E4 and E6 variants are amazing.  My E4 has never had a single stoppage of any sort.  I just converted mine to a "D" configuration for the first time and shot it off an M122 tripod - what a blast!

Expect to pay around $30K+ for an RIA gun or $40K+ for a USGI gun.

As posted above, read Hoel's series on the M60 that appeared in SAR.  Lots to learn.  

Joe

I won't go into too much detail, but I LOVE LOVE LOVE mine!

Video if you're bored


I recommend either a RIA gun, or since you actually want to keep it as an E1, a Saco gun.  Enjoy the hunt!

When were the USGI manufactured maremonts produced? 60-72? or later? I also know of the T161 (was this an experimental model?) And i think it would be cool as $#%^ to have one, but arent they more than a USGI? Ive noticed one on Gunbroker but it hasnt moved for over a year.

Yeah thats never a good sign. Even worse you can find rifles in past auctions that sell then a few weeks later it gets re-listed, that's typically someone backing out on the deal once they see it in person.

I have an RIA M60 that was made using a surplus Maremont trunnion (I can't find any evidence that the trunnion was demilled and then rewelded). The serial number is stamped on the trunnion. The "RIA" marking is on the bottom of the channel. This is the second M60 that I got directly from RIA (I sold the first one, back in the day). Both guns were marked the same way.

I asked the question on this forum, fairly recently, whether the bottom channel could be replaced on a gun with this configuration. The consensus was that people were unsure. I decided to leave well enough alone.

Correct me if im wrong but there are 4 types of transferable m60s out there (arranged from most to least desirable):
1. C&R T161's
2. Gov't manufactured M60's (from my understanding they never saw service?)
3. RIA built with essentially the same parts as 2 just for civilian sales
4. Everything else (pearl, form 1s, etc.)

I'd put the Saco/Maremont USGI guns above the C&R T161's.  In my opinion T161's are for collectors, and they seem to be priced accordingly.

Note also that most RIA guns have cast rather than forged trunnions (there are exceptions, such as early RIA guns built with USGI trunnions).  Forging is better, but on most RIA guns the trunnion is replaceable as it has no markings.  The Hoel series of articles covers most of this.

Joe

You seem like someone who should come to the NH hometown shoots/bbq's :)

Agreed, a USGI mfg gun is better for a shooter than a T161.  They will be newer manufacture, with later production techniques, and will cost $20K less.

I beleive that Dessert Ord, will replace everything (if you want them to) on a RIA channel registered gun where the serial and makers marks are only on the channel.  Trunnion, Rails, Rear Bridge, etc.  Send them an original RIA E1 + ~10K and the only original part that comes back is the channel so it basically a brand new E4 or E6 gun.

I keep toying with the idea of a complete E6 rebuild but mine already went to Dessert/US Ord once for an E4 upgrade and the gun has never missed a beat using new production US made ammo.   However, they just did the bolt on E4 upgrade keeping the original receiver parts.  

The US Ord E4 (and presume the E6 although I have never shot one) are really great machineguns.  One of the very few available transferable shoulder fired 7.62 belt feds out there and in my experience deadly reliable.

They'll also do the opposite -- that is, replace everything except the trunnion (which would be the case with my RIA gun, which has the serial number on the trunnion). I talked to them about it at Knob Creek a couple of years ago. The gray area would be whether they could copy the "RIA" marking on the sheet metal channel. I didn't pursue it further, because I didn't consider this to be cost-effective. $10K for the upgrade wouldn't increase the fair market value of the gun anywhere near that much. (I also don't want to get into gray legal areas regarding the NFA, and I don't want to let that valuable an item out of my possession, considering the risk that it might go astray.)

Maybe its the case they will do either.   If you have a true registered trunnion gun they will swap everything but the trunnion. if you have a channel gun they will swap everything but the channel.  I spoke to US Ord upgrade RIA owner that had everything replaced except the channel and even the channel was reparked during the rebuild process.  Maybe they will drop into the conversation to confirm my recollection about the conversation.

However, I can see where it will get dicey if you have markings on multiple parts and you would lose original manufacturer markings.