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Posted: 2/3/2024 8:03:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mesooohoppy: I've heard people say this, but not provide any proof. Got any? CAT and CGS 3D printed suppressors are made by i3D Mfg, according to CAT's rep on IG a few months ago. You can go search for that comment if you really, truly need proof. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 8:12:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pomyluy: CAT and CGS 3D printed suppressors are made by i3D Mfg, according to CAT's rep on IG a few months ago. You can go search for that comment if you really, truly need proof. As a follow-up to Austin's post, none of the silencer companies are printing silencers in-house at this time. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 8:16:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Green0]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HansohnBrothers: Yep. Basically, i3D makes the component parts. Those parts get sent to CGS where they are assembled, engraved with CAT (under marking variance), serial numbered and form 2 filed. From there they go to Silencer Shop or Capitol Armory IIRC. As a follow-up to Austin's post, none of the silencer companies are printing silencers in-house at this time. I figured someone would be doing their own, but I guess that's not surprising either. We considered it for a little while and explored the concept at IMTS, but the price went up as we peeled the layers of the onion and we decided to hold off on it. |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 8:27:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Green0: I figured someone would be doing their own, but I guess that's not surprising either. We considered it for a little while and explored the concept at IMTS, but the price went up as we peeled the layers of the onion and we decided to hold off on it. Do you think that this is ultimately the future of almost everything on the market, or will there still be a place for traditionally machined cans for a while? |
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Posted: 2/3/2024 8:44:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Green0]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillhole: Do you think that this is ultimately the future of almost everything on the market, or will there still be a place for traditionally machined cans for a while? To 3D manufacture currently guarantees the can will be uglier, and guarantees higher cost. The designs that are outperforming (the minority), are generally doing that at the expense of fouling faster. The "rebuild" is essentially a replacement of 75% of the unit. The technology isn't stronger than a laser welded can unless support structures are implemented that add weight. There are a lot of ways for CNC/Laser welded to compete with the technology, but if the pricing comes down and the efficiency of the process and the accuracy/resolution of the technology improves, at some point 3D may replace CNC manufacturing. Most likely even if that happens, some of the manufacturing will have to be supported by CNC operations like cutting an interface to laser weld a mounting system to. The muzzle devices will probably continue to be CNC machined. Tapers for example just have to be machined for a really near perfect finish. Threads also. There are other ways traditional manufacturing has pros- like DOM tubing is cold reduced during forming for a stronger part than the native material. There are other challenges printing presents- essentially the can is now like a forging and has to be picked up true to properly machine an interfacing geometry for the laser welding of the interface, so that can be complicated. I don't know if a 5 axis renishaw skew exists to tram a cylinder into square with the mill head for example. I believe we looked into that and the Skew routine didn't exist in so far as we could tell, so there was no "easy button" for automating perfect, consistent pick-ups. I think this technology appeals to industry, because there is a profound lack of skilled machinists in industry today due to global outsourcing, and teachers unselling people on skilled trades. No doubt a lot of people want to get rid of the problem of having to build quality manufacturing teams to have the ability to manufacture things. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/4/2024 12:56:37 AM EDT
[#6]
Anyone who has a CAT WB (understanding that unless you have an FFL you only have the conjugal visits) able to try something? I wanna see how much glow is produced under NV by dumping say, 1-3 mags. Ideally if you could compare your results to the RC2 that'd be even better.
I've heard a lot of 3d printed and flow through cans tend to produce much more IR light than traditional cans (especially he RC2) because they push the heat from firing towards the outer layers of the can. I'm under the impression that the reason the rc2 (and presumably some other cans) perform so well in that regard is because they have a small air gap between the outer tube and the inner workings of the can. I'm hoping to see some tests across the board of these newer cans that show their visual performance under NODs and thermals. |
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Posted: 2/4/2024 1:20:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NewWind: Anyone who has a CAT WB (understanding that unless you have an FFL you only have the conjugal visits) able to try something? I wanna see how much glow is produced under NV by dumping say, 1-3 mags. Ideally if you could compare your results to the RC2 that'd be even better. I've heard a lot of 3d printed and flow through cans tend to produce much more IR light than traditional cans (especially he RC2) because they push the heat from firing towards the outer layers of the can. I'm under the impression that the reason the rc2 (and presumably some other cans) perform so well in that regard is because they have a small air gap between the outer tube and the inner workings of the can. I'm hoping to see some tests across the board of these newer cans that show their visual performance under NODs and thermals. That issue is mentioned in this video and yes, the 3dp suppressor was brighter. Not a CAT one though as they didn't test that one.  What They Don't Tell You About Suppressors |
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USA
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Posted: 2/4/2024 1:37:26 AM EDT
[#8]
Based on these videos I think the "IR Glow" depends mostly on the specific design:
 The Surefire RC3 Chat video ft. Velos , RC2 ,SB2 , HUX , KAC PRT and THE CHOSEN ONE.  Sico Velos LBP | Huxwrx FLow 556k | No Light \ NVG comparison |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/4/2024 9:41:28 AM EDT
[#9]
I personally dig the rough texture of DMLS-mfr'd cans.
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Posted: 2/4/2024 4:18:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NewWind: Anyone who has a CAT WB (understanding that unless you have an FFL you only have the conjugal visits) able to try something? I wanna see how much glow is produced under NV by dumping say, 1-3 mags. Ideally if you could compare your results to the RC2 that'd be even better. I've heard a lot of 3d printed and flow through cans tend to produce much more IR light than traditional cans (especially he RC2) because they push the heat from firing towards the outer layers of the can. I'm under the impression that the reason the rc2 (and presumably some other cans) perform so well in that regard is because they have a small air gap between the outer tube and the inner workings of the can. I'm hoping to see some tests across the board of these newer cans that show their visual performance under NODs and thermals. I am really curious how it will look under NV. Unfortunately, the range this thing lives at closes at sunset. Unless I were to take some kind of night carbine course or something. I’ll probably have to wait until it gets out of jail and take it to my buddy’s place one night. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/4/2024 4:34:37 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HansohnBrothers: Yep. Basically, i3D makes the component parts. Those parts get sent to CGS where they are assembled, engraved with CAT (under marking variance), serial numbered and form 2 filed. From there they go to Silencer Shop or Capitol Armory IIRC. As a follow-up to Austin's post, none of the silencer companies are printing silencers in-house at this time. Interesting. What about non-dedicated manufacturers like Ruger, KAC, or similar? Any of those guys have in-house DMLS or whatever printing tech is being used nowadays? |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 2/4/2024 7:56:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pomyluy: CAT and CGS 3D printed suppressors are made by i3D Mfg, according to CAT's rep on IG a few months ago. You can go search for that comment if you really, truly need proof. rad. thanks!! |
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Posted: 2/5/2024 7:47:06 AM EDT
[#13]
What manufacturer is making the 3D printed cans for DA and Hux? Is it the same guys?
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NC, USA
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Posted: 2/5/2024 9:44:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Green0: I think this technology appeals to industry, because there is a profound lack of skilled machinists in industry today due to global outsourcing, and teachers unselling people on skilled trades. No doubt a lot of people want to get rid of the problem of having to build quality manufacturing teams to have the ability to manufacture things. We used to worry about machines taking people's jobs, now we are trying to build machines to take jobs people don't want. |
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Posted: 2/5/2024 10:51:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: Wow, that's a point I hadn't considered before. Makes a lot of sense. We used to worry about machines taking people's jobs, now we are trying to build machines to take jobs people don't want. I don't quite understand it. Manufacturing is a place where you get to create things. It's cool to carve a part out of metal. It's like being a sculptor, but being able to produce something beautiful by a plan and skills rather than having to be organically capable of doing something like drawing a perfect circle freehand. Most weeks we do something new. We set a goal and get to see it obtained. I believe it was Tros that had the motto "A riddle of steel" on the website. There is a truth to that. A lot of times the geometry you want and the path to get there are things that only reveal themselves in the process. Solving the riddle is the path to the part, and the parts are the path to the product. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/6/2024 12:31:33 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Green0: I don't quite understand it. Manufacturing is a place where you get to create things. It's cool to carve a part out of metal. It's like being a sculptor, but being able to produce something beautiful by a plan and skills rather than having to be organically capable of doing something like drawing a perfect circle freehand. Most weeks we do something new. We set a goal and get to see it obtained. I believe it was Tros that had the motto "A riddle of steel" on the website. There is a truth to that. A lot of times the geometry you want and the path to get there are things that only reveal themselves in the process. Solving the riddle is the path to the part, and the parts are the path to the product. People want to make YouTube videos for income, not work and achieve. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/6/2024 5:05:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dmk0210: Wow, that's a point I hadn't considered before. Makes a lot of sense. We used to worry about machines taking people's jobs, now we are trying to build machines to take jobs people don't want. Machines are being built to take away every job possible, not just the ones people don't want. |
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WLF
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Posted: 2/6/2024 12:15:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Green0: I don't quite understand it. Manufacturing is a place where you get to create things. It's cool to carve a part out of metal. It's like being a sculptor, but being able to produce something beautiful by a plan and skills rather than having to be organically capable of doing something like drawing a perfect circle freehand. Most weeks we do something new. We set a goal and get to see it obtained. I believe it was Tros that had the motto "A riddle of steel" on the website. There is a truth to that. A lot of times the geometry you want and the path to get there are things that only reveal themselves in the process. Solving the riddle is the path to the part, and the parts are the path to the product. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Green0: Originally Posted By dmk0210: Wow, that's a point I hadn't considered before. Makes a lot of sense. We used to worry about machines taking people's jobs, now we are trying to build machines to take jobs people don't want. I don't quite understand it. Manufacturing is a place where you get to create things. It's cool to carve a part out of metal. It's like being a sculptor, but being able to produce something beautiful by a plan and skills rather than having to be organically capable of doing something like drawing a perfect circle freehand. Most weeks we do something new. We set a goal and get to see it obtained. I believe it was Tros that had the motto "A riddle of steel" on the website. There is a truth to that. A lot of times the geometry you want and the path to get there are things that only reveal themselves in the process. Solving the riddle is the path to the part, and the parts are the path to the product. TROS stands for The Riddle of Steel. There was a thread on SH about a DMLS silencer that filled a users rifle with Titanium powder. |
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Posted: 2/6/2024 12:39:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Green0]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ian187: TROS stands for The Riddle of Steel. There was a thread on SH about a DMLS silencer that filled a users rifle with Titanium powder. Never put it together, (seems obvious now), but I do like the term in the context of machining parts. Even after years working with metal, it isn’t uncommon for strategies to require modification, in order to achieve correct manufacturing dimensions. It keeps people problem solving. Sometimes the strategy is a first time perfect process, and that is cool too, because it means the theory was all applied correctly, almost like doping range and wind with a precision rifle. I had a situation like that yesterday, where a really complicated part came off a settup perfect the first time, meaning the design, tolerancing, toolpathing, and the work in machine settup were perfectly executed. That is really impressive when it happens, almost like magic. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/7/2024 11:13:41 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 3/8/2024 12:12:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Green0]
[#21]
The first 5 baffles look like those in the surefire socom sps. The baffles themselves should not be low backpressure. The outer peripheral flow probably diminishes the backpressure somewhat, but the baffles themselves don’t look like they would help. In rapid fire strings, it was odd to see the ejection pattern move from rearward to forward, like something in the system is getting overwhelmed.
The sixth baffle houses the flash suppressor which consumes a significant amount of the overall length like ~27%. A short can that has gas interacting with the atmosphere at something like 73% of overall length, would seem like a good recipe for being louder than average. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2024 1:02:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AndrewKing]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HansohnBrothers: Yep. Basically, i3D makes the component parts. Those parts get sent to CGS where they are assembled, engraved with CAT (under marking variance), serial numbered and form 2 filed. From there they go to Silencer Shop or Capitol Armory IIRC. As a follow-up to Austin's post, none of the silencer companies are printing silencers in-house at this time. Radical firearms/radical defense is the only company I know of who prints their own suppressors in house. Metal 3D printing is just in its infancy right now. The 2010’s of smartphones when there was a new fancy model out every week that was better and cheaper than last week. It makes no sense for a company to invest in a 1M printer today when a 750K printer that can do more stuff comes out next year and within a few years your machine has plummeted in value and is now considered obsolete like if you tried to sell an iPhone 4 today for ANY price, let alone what you paid for it lol (Holy run on sentence Batman) I think in a few years it’ll settle down and you’ll see more companies bring it in house. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2024 2:45:48 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AndrewKing: Radical firearms/radical defense is the only company I know of who prints their own suppressors in house. It sounds like KAC has in-house printing ability as well, per this interview they did with Big Tex Ordnance at the most recent Shotshow:  Ash Hess & Jack Leuba - Knights Armament Company They also state these are the most durable cans they've ever made, and have features they could not replicate with traditional welded designs. IMO, if KAC's going all-in on this, that's a pretty good endorsement in my (admittedly unqualified) opinion. Side note: I've been taking a serious look at those Radical Defense cans. Yes, I know Radical Firearms doesn't have the greatest reputation, to put it mildly, but they are in-house printing these things, and they are also making a suppressor for .338 Norma Mag minigun. So I figure best case, them being willing to invest in multiple printers and building cans to try and get mil-contracts (because who else is buying a can for a .338 Norma M134?) means they are serious and it could be a good can as a result, and worse case, it sucks, but at least I'm giving my money to a Texan company crazy enough to 3D print cans for .50 BMG belt fends and miniguns, so that would soften the blow. 
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Posted: 3/8/2024 7:00:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Green0]
[#24]
When a company that plug welds baffles and held Mk11 cans on the mount with 3 or 4 short tig welds, says 3D is stronger, that isn’t as clearly defined as it would be for a company full circumferencially laser welding a can correctly to say the same. My mk11 can is currently factory test fired only, and it has paint blown off in several ~5, small spots where gas leaked through two different seams during factory test fire. It is also not straight and the factory test targets indicate 404% larger group with the can than without it.
Kac is showing some solid performance in their 3D cans as it pertains to lowered cyclic increase, low visible signature during heating and low flash performance. Obviously there is potential to make strong cans with 3D printing. I also saw a post recently on their forum on this site from user Thejudgeholden about a law enforcement agency running PRT cans that had one blow in half sending half down range, and a second failure, prior to taking them all off duty and sending them back as part of the large recall. So whether or not 3D cans are stronger, there is demonstrated ability to also make 3D cans that fail by the same company making those claims. Andrew isn’t far off on his assessment that buying into the technology right now is still likely buying in early and the machines will come down, and their capabilities and performance will increase. The Radical cans sounded pretty good at the military demos where I have heard them.  |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 12:30:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: UMP45_Enthusiast]
[#25]
Quote HistoryMy favorite part of this was when he was describing its a low back pressure nature while swimming in ejection port gas. This is just another video where these cans look gassy. Also am I crazy or does the ejection patterns move forward as the shot string gets longer? Is it because the system can't clear the gas fast enough and ends up over-pressuring? |
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USA
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Posted: 3/8/2024 2:15:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DDS87]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Green0: The first 5 baffles look like those in the surefire socom sps. The baffles themselves should not be low backpressure. The outer peripheral flow probably diminishes the backpressure somewhat, but the baffles themselves don’t look like they would help. In rapid fire strings, it was odd to see the ejection pattern move from rearward to forward, like something in the system is getting overwhelmed. The sixth baffle houses the flash suppressor which consumes a significant amount of the overall length like ~27%. A short can that has gas interacting with the atmosphere at something like 73% of overall length, would seem like a good recipe for being louder than average. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Green0: The first 5 baffles look like those in the surefire socom sps. The baffles themselves should not be low backpressure. The outer peripheral flow probably diminishes the backpressure somewhat, but the baffles themselves don’t look like they would help. In rapid fire strings, it was odd to see the ejection pattern move from rearward to forward, like something in the system is getting overwhelmed. The sixth baffle houses the flash suppressor which consumes a significant amount of the overall length like ~27%. A short can that has gas interacting with the atmosphere at something like 73% of overall length, would seem like a good recipe for being louder than average. Originally Posted By UMP45_Enthusiast: My favorite part of this was when he was describing its a low back pressure nature while swimming in ejection port gas. This is just another video where these cans look gassy. Also am I crazy or does the ejection patterns move forward as the shot string gets longer? Is it because the system can't clear the gas fast enough and ends up over-pressuring? I don't recall CAT claiming their Surge Bypass suppressors to be the lowest backpressure, highest-flowing suppressors possible. They have been described as a well-balanced design in characteristics, including size/weight, specifically for the civilian end-user (notice they have a bit different MIL/LEO line). PEW characterizes them as a "hybrid" between traditional and something like Huxwrx's Flow Through. What happens when one toons their weapon for a more constrictive, high back pressure design and shoots a rapid string? The gas doesn't just dissolve into nothing, it stays in that pressurized system. Any system that isn't closer to 100% forward-flowing will probably show similar. Some are calling it "gas stacking," etc. Also...Alabama is extremely humid (I'm there right now) and this will make the gases more visible. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 2:44:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: UMP45_Enthusiast]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DDS87: I don't recall CAT claiming their Surge Bypass suppressors to be the lowest backpressure, highest-flowing suppressors possible. They have been described as a well-balanced design in characteristics, including size/weight, specifically for the civilian end-user (notice they have a bit different MIL/LEO line). PEW characterizes them as a "hybrid" between traditional and something like Huxwrx's Flow Through. What happens when one toons their weapon for a more constrictive, high back pressure design and shoots a rapid string? The gas doesn't just dissolve into nothing, it stays in that pressurized system. Any system that isn't closer to 100% forward-flowing will probably show similar. Some are calling it "gas stacking," etc. Also...Alabama is extremely humid (I'm there right now) and this will make the gases more visible. CAT described it as less pressure than the Flow here, its just not in the word soup description on their website. Everyone who has made a video of this thing also states its 'low back pressure' but every video shows the gas coming from the ejection port looks like the gas I would see out of my RC2. |
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WLF
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Posted: 3/8/2024 3:26:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DDS87: What happens when one toons their weapon for a more constrictive, high back pressure design and shoots a rapid string? Well, you'd have a competitive sounding silencer for starters. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/8/2024 5:05:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UMP45_Enthusiast: CAT described it as less pressure than the Flow here, its just not in the word soup description on their website. Everyone who has made a video of this thing also states its 'low back pressure' but every video shows the gas coming from the ejection port looks like the gas I would see out of my RC2. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UMP45_Enthusiast: CAT described it as less pressure than the Flow here, its just not in the word soup description on their website. Everyone who has made a video of this thing also states its 'low back pressure' but every video shows the gas coming from the ejection port looks like the gas I would see out of my RC2. That is interesting, hadn't seen that claim before. I wish they would have specified "556K" or "762," since I recall the later model being higher backpressure. However, from PEW we can also see that the bolt closure takes slightly longer with the Flow 762 vs the WB, also suggesting the Flow 762 is slightly lower back pressure. I would like if CAT expanded on that, but inducing slightly more bolt velocity than a Flow 762 doesn't mean the WB isn't relatively low back pressure. It still induces noticeably less bolt velocity than the RC2, for example. The thing about the people who have used them in videos is they have infinitely more experience with them than we do. Originally Posted By ian187: Well, you'd have a competitive sounding silencer for starters. Oh jeez, too bad for CAT, maybe they'll figure out how to make their products "competitive sounding" someday. |
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WLF
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Posted: 3/8/2024 5:15:42 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DDS87: Oh jeez, too bad for CAT, maybe they'll figure out how to make their products "competitive sounding" someday. We agree. I guess Big Silencer will be around for a while longer. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 5:27:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Green0]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DDS87: I don't recall CAT claiming their Surge Bypass suppressors to be the lowest backpressure, highest-flowing suppressors possible. They have been described as a well-balanced design in characteristics, including size/weight, specifically for the civilian end-user (notice they have a bit different MIL/LEO line). PEW characterizes them as a "hybrid" between traditional and something like Huxwrx's Flow Through. What happens when one toons their weapon for a more constrictive, high back pressure design and shoots a rapid string? The gas doesn't just dissolve into nothing, it stays in that pressurized system. Any system that isn't closer to 100% forward-flowing will probably show similar. Some are calling it "gas stacking," etc. Also...Alabama is extremely humid (I'm there right now) and this will make the gases more visible. The video makes it sound as though the Cat projects some sound forward, like the Sig SLX that also does that. Both of those cans have the conical front flash suppressor pushing the last aperture back into the unit a considerable distance, and the CAT seems to work better / similar in a shorter length envelope. I don't think the Sig will do the gas stacking thing though so there is probably a price to trying to reduce the size of the can. It seems too many stretched marketing claims are flying around, like the "230% stronger than what" printed silencer, these claims seem to push the boundaries of what is happening. Obviously hype gets rewarded with sales, but honesty and clearer definitions have a value also. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 5:33:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ian187: Well, you'd have a competitive sounding silencer for starters. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ian187: Originally Posted By DDS87: What happens when one toons their weapon for a more constrictive, high back pressure design and shoots a rapid string? Well, you'd have a competitive sounding silencer for starters. Can confirm, on auto. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 4:44:20 PM EDT
[#33]
I'm becoming a big fan of these guys for suppressor reviews, they seem very impartial with very practical comparisons with what they've got:
 CAT ODB VS. CGS Helios QD TI |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 12:06:03 AM EDT
[#34]
Anyone here with actual hands on experience with any of CAT’s suppressors? Have seen a lot of buzz about them but I’m hesitant to jump on the bandwagon when there are a lot of other excellent options.
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Posted: 3/16/2024 8:31:44 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thomasthetrain: Anyone here with actual hands on experience with any of CAT’s suppressors? Have seen a lot of buzz about them but I’m hesitant to jump on the bandwagon when there are a lot of other excellent options. |
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Posted: 3/16/2024 9:05:03 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UMP45_Enthusiast: My favorite part of this was when he was describing its a low back pressure nature while swimming in ejection port gas. This is just another video where these cans look gassy. Also am I crazy or does the ejection patterns move forward as the shot string gets longer? Is it because the system can't clear the gas fast enough and ends up over-pressuring? I noticed the same. Looks terrible. |
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Posted: 3/16/2024 9:08:44 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1168RGR: You’d think that with all the dudes saying its the greatest can in the galaxy during a time where people are getting approvals in a matter of days, they’d be a hundred pictured in this very thread. I mean, the world’s top operators have been using the technology for some time. /s This. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 9:09:31 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1168RGR: You’d think that with all the dudes saying its the greatest can in the galaxy during a time where people are getting approvals in a matter of days, they’d be a hundred pictured in this very thread. I mean, the world’s top operators have been using the technology for some time. /s I can’t help but notice they’re also one of the only 556 suppressors still in stock at Silencer Shop. I need to order two more 556 cans and won’t touch CAT with a ten foot pole. |
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Posted: 3/16/2024 9:21:27 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By esdunbar: I can’t help but notice they’re also one of the only 556 suppressors still in stock at Silencer Shop. I need to order two more 556 cans and won’t touch CAT with a ten foot pole. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By esdunbar: Originally Posted By 1168RGR: You’d think that with all the dudes saying its the greatest can in the galaxy during a time where people are getting approvals in a matter of days, they’d be a hundred pictured in this very thread. I mean, the world’s top operators have been using the technology for some time. /s I can’t help but notice they’re also one of the only 556 suppressors still in stock at Silencer Shop. I need to order two more 556 cans and won’t touch CAT with a ten foot pole. A few vendors expressed their frustration via Instagram at SS for hoarding every single cat can to come off the line. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 10:28:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DDS87]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By esdunbar: I can’t help but notice they’re also one of the only 556 suppressors still in stock at Silencer Shop. I need to order two more 556 cans and won’t touch CAT with a ten foot pole. I see the Griffin Explorr (both versions), SureFire RC3, YHM Fat Cat and Turbo K RB, SilencerCo Velos LBP, and the CAT WB Ti only (the 718 sold out in less than a day) are in stock, along with some other products. They must be bad then? |
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USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 10:59:40 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thomasthetrain: Anyone here with actual hands on experience with any of CAT’s suppressors? Have seen a lot of buzz about them but I’m hesitant to jump on the bandwagon when there are a lot of other excellent options. There are hands-on reports and comparisons elsewhere if you're curious. I definitely understand some hesitation with something relatively new with the options these days. I'll probably wait until after deployment to even bother trying to snag a 718 WB, but I'm thinking about getting a Recce 5K in the meantime and then have fun directly comparing them later. But between 1. People who hate CAT's marketing/publicity strategy and who have never used their products. vs 2. People who have used their products. I think I'd have to defer to the people who have used them . |
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WLF
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Posted: 3/16/2024 11:35:14 AM EDT
[#42]
Silencers are often a cult of personality. It takes some time for real reviews to come out.
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Posted: 3/16/2024 11:40:00 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ian187: Silencers are often a cult of personality. It takes some time for real reviews to come out. Always |
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USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 12:13:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ian187: Silencers are often a cult of personality. It takes some time for real reviews to come out. Agreed. Optics can get that way too; I think it's a function of price and/or attainability. What kinds of reviews do you like/trust? What sources? |
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WLF
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Posted: 3/16/2024 1:28:53 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DDS87: Agreed. Optics can get that way too; I think it's a function of price and/or attainability. What kinds of reviews do you like/trust? What sources? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DDS87: Originally Posted By ian187: Silencers are often a cult of personality. It takes some time for real reviews to come out. Agreed. Optics can get that way too; I think it's a function of price and/or attainability. What kinds of reviews do you like/trust? What sources? I trust my first hand experience. I'll consider open source testing like TBAC's. Aggregated first hand user reports can be correct given enough time but that is often years. Early-Adopter reports are almost always inaccurate while professionals reviewers and testers outright lie. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 8:37:04 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DDS87: There are hands-on reports and comparisons elsewhere if you're curious. I definitely understand some hesitation with something relatively new with the options these days. I'll probably wait until after deployment to even bother trying to snag a 718 WB, but I'm thinking about getting a Recce 5K in the meantime and then have fun directly comparing them later. But between 1. People who hate CAT's marketing/publicity strategy and who have never used their products. vs 2. People who have used their products. I think I'd have to defer to the people who have used them . Most of the early reviews I’ve seen aside from YouTube have been on Reddit which I try to stay away from. Don’t really pay much attention to the YouTube reviews aside from some objective attributes like size, length, and appearance of gassiness as the people able. Have alluded to. The Reddit posts seem to indicate that the can is less gassy than others and sounds great but hard to tell what’s truth and what’s fiction these days. |
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Posted: 3/17/2024 9:25:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1168RGR]
[#47]
Originally Posted By DDS87: who have never used their products. Originally Posted By thomasthetrain: Most of the early reviews I’ve seen aside from YouTube have been on Reddit which I try to stay away from. Don’t really pay much attention to the YouTube reviews aside from some objective attributes like size, length, and appearance of gassiness as the people able. Have alluded to. The Reddit posts seem to indicate that the can is less gassy than others and sounds great but hard to tell what’s truth and what’s fiction these days. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 10:10:25 AM EDT
[#48]
Interesting pic from inside the can with the end cap taken off. It was rough textured. Whether that's by design or just a side effect of the manufacturing process, I guess we'll never know.
Regarding the fact that CGS is responsible for final manufacturing and shipping makes me wonder if you deal with them from a customer service perspective as well if anything breaks. I've read some pretty bad horror stories of their customer service..... |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 10:55:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Mesooohoppy]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By optoisolator: Interesting pic from inside the can with the end cap taken off. It was rough textured. Whether that's by design or just a side effect of the manufacturing process, I guess we'll never know. 3d printed stuff across the board has a much coarser surface texture. you see it on cgs/cat, dead air, hux, ptr, sico. the only one i havent seen first hand is the PWS stuff, but i have no desire to look at one. if you look at PTR, theyre actually using porosity as a selling/marketing tool. more surface area is a better thing in this case (for obvious reasons). i was playing with a mojave 9 yesterday and i realized they added a bunch of 'steps' on the modular portion and 'wrinkles' in the main body: this pic shows it very well. (main body/wrinkles on left; modular/steps on right) how long does this stuff take to clog up? if youve seen a CAT blast baffle, you know the texture looks like a waffle. is that stuff going to clog up? and if so, whats the firing schedule going to look like across different MFGs? thats the million dollar question for me currently. i asked my SS rep if the CAT centerfire rifle stuff needed to be cleaned periodically and he said not regularly. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/17/2024 11:36:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Originally Posted By 1168RGR: Originally Posted By DDS87: who have never used their products. Almost...except the people on video and in pictures and on forum posts who have reported their experiences with them. Originally Posted By thomasthetrain: Most of the early reviews I’ve seen aside from YouTube have been on Reddit which I try to stay away from. Don’t really pay much attention to the YouTube reviews aside from some objective attributes like size, length, and appearance of gassiness as the people able. Have alluded to. The Reddit posts seem to indicate that the can is less gassy than others and sounds great but hard to tell what’s truth and what’s fiction these days. Originally Posted By 1168RGR:Reddit is a place that’s extremely easy to experiment with. People often find a weird motivation in the dopamine and peer acceptance feeling facilitated by an upvote/downvote system. It’s also a photo-friendly platform. All the same things that make it optimal for guerrilla marketing. It is extremely easy to devise an experiment in that space to decide for yourself if the people making specific recommendations, or the inverse, are doing so out of a position of experience or not. Someone who has live access to the suppressors they are interested in is extremely fortunate. Critical thinking and watching our confirmation biases is important but we are fortunate to have a few sources beyond text boxes to draw from. For example, in the East County video above, they directly compare the ODB to the Helios with both closed and vented end caps. They comment on the perceived sound performance, cyclic rate/ejection pattern, and gas to the face. The ODB cycles a little faster than the Helios with a vented cap and cycles a little slower than the Helios with a closed cap. The ODB sounds noticeably better to the shooters. All of this coincides with PEW's data. One of the shooters also states the ODB still isn't his all-time favorite. We can see the ejection patterns and gas (and even the sound difference in this case although I don't rely on video for realistic sound), though we need to apply critical thinking and realize we didn't see that gun cycle unsuppressed and that it's near freezing temperatures at the time of the video. At least one person in the comments didn't realize that when it's near freezing and one exhales, a person's breath can be visible as a cloud of water vapor. Interesting points about Reddit. It is structured very differently than this forum so all of the sincere reviews are mixed into the list with GD-style shit posts etc., and the threads aren't policed the same either. It is a much more popular forum so it has a greater volume of everything. Looking at the ARF Silencers sub-forum page...what are the most popular stickied threads? We don't have a vote system here but I do see a lot of sucking up to sponsors and a tribalistic tendency that assumes ARF is the enclave of the most informed enthusiasts, which is as wacky as CAT's marketing team. |
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