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Posted: 4/21/2017 9:55:51 PM EDT
Just in case guys and gals...

About time

I don't have one, but I know lots of folks here were asking.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 10:09:15 PM EDT
[#1]
I guess Im glad to see its available but no way am I paying $145 plus shipping to swap the booster housing that I currently have for one with wrench compatibility.


Eta:  nevermind the fact I cant remove it to send for the swap without those wrench flats anyways
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 10:14:16 PM EDT
[#2]


I hear ya brother.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 10:41:09 PM EDT
[#3]
I wonder if the Griffin Armament $200 promotion could be used for that though?
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 10:47:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Paying for this "fix" irks me worse than a poorly designed can that's not reconfigureable without a vice. I'll keep mine married to a 3 lug mount and buy a silencerco for a K can.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 10:49:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Eta:  nevermind the fact I cant remove it to send for the swap without those wrench flats anyways
View Quote
And there's this too
Link Posted: 4/25/2017 2:36:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Is the only thing the $145 gets you the ability to use the wrench?  Does it upgrade a gen 1 to allow use on 556 like the gen 2?
Link Posted: 4/25/2017 4:30:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Paying for this "fix" irks me worse than a poorly designed can that's not reconfigureable without a vice. I'll keep mine married to a 3 lug mount and buy a silencerco for a K can.
View Quote
In their defense, it was clear that there were no wrench-compatible notches from the start.  That made me shy away from the Revolution in the first place.  As a new feature, it makes the can MUCH more appealing to me.  I may bet the Revolution 45 now with a 3-lug for dedicated use on two of my 45 carbines.
Link Posted: 4/25/2017 5:03:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

In their defense, it was clear that there were no wrench-compatible notches from the start.  That made me shy away from the Revolution in the first place.  As a new feature, it makes the can MUCH more appealing to me.  I may bet the Revolution 45 now with a 3-lug for dedicated use on two of my 45 carbines.
View Quote
That's not really a defense. At 1.375" diameter, an AR castle nut wrench is perfect.
Link Posted: 4/25/2017 5:59:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That's not really a defense. At 1.375" diameter, an AR castle nut wrench is perfect.
View Quote
They did not make the first run with the wrench cuts, nor did they advertise you were getting them... so you got what you thought you were going to get and what you paid for.  You don't buy a 2014 F-150 and expect them to upgrade it to 2017 standards for free.
Link Posted: 4/25/2017 7:17:27 PM EDT
[#10]
removed.
Link Posted: 4/25/2017 9:22:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

They did not make the first run with the wrench cuts, nor did they advertise you were getting them... so you got what you thought you were going to get and what you paid for.  You don't buy a 2014 F-150 and expect them to upgrade it to 2017 standards for free.
View Quote
Come on man. I have one and do like it but the point remains that we didnt buy a prototype we bought a product advertised as being modular. So as a customer you assume it will work as advertised like it should.

I am no engineer and found out about this issue within the very first time I was trying to decide which length I wanted it to be in for my use.  Its clear upon disassembly that without being able to hold onto certain parts how the heck can you seperate them.


Anyways the can itself is great in K length and will just stay that way for my needs. So thank you for offering the service but the price is high enough that it turns me off from purchasing anything further from them due to similar unforeseen issues arising in the future.
Link Posted: 4/25/2017 9:33:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is the only thing the $145 gets you the ability to use the wrench?  Does it upgrade a gen 1 to allow use on 556 like the gen 2?
View Quote
I can't find where a "gen 2" gives a 5.56 rating. The only place I have seen it mentioned is here. Doesn't even show on griffinarmament.com.
Link Posted: 4/25/2017 9:38:16 PM EDT
[#13]
They made a big deal about this can being modular and it turned out to be less modular than it appeared...
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 12:48:14 AM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 12:50:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Come on man. I have one and do like it but the point remains that we didnt buy a prototype we bought a product advertised as being modular. So as a customer you assume it will work as advertised like it should.

I am no engineer and found out about this issue within the very first time I was trying to decide which length I wanted it to be in for my use.  Its clear upon disassembly that without being able to hold onto certain parts how the heck can you seperate them.

Anyways the can itself is great in K length and will just stay that way for my needs. So thank you for offering the service but the price is high enough that it turns me off from purchasing anything further from them due to similar unforeseen issues arising in the future.
View Quote
I did research the can before I bought the can.  While you say, "Modular", I understood the can to be configurable.  In fact, they recommended using red LocTite when assembling the can.  Red LocTite does not scream "modular" to me.  Even if it did, it's not a quick-configuration.  Griffin said, even back then, that you had to use red loctite on the housing threads.  To remove the housing, you need to use heat.  Go to 3:30 in the video and listen to what he says.  For 450 degree or 650 degree loctite, you need to heat the can up to remove the booster.  Based on the new manual, that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

I own the Octane which has a similar piston housing configuration and the housing doesn't come out either, unless you use heat.  Where Griffin probably made the mistake with you and others is that they made it sound easy to change them out.  It's not.  I knew this, though I had to dig a little to find out.

Configuring the Revolution 9mm Sound Suppressor
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 12:52:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If I knew what you knew, I wouldn't buy this can.  So it was my mistake.  This can was the first and also the last from Griffin.
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If I knew that my Octane piston housing was going to come loose when I tried to pull it off the gun, I would have shied away from that one too.  I do like the new, wrench-compatible Revolution and think I need one for my 45 caliber PCC's.
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 2:30:13 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

They did not make the first run with the wrench cuts, nor did they advertise you were getting them... so you got what you thought you were going to get and what you paid for.  You don't buy a 2014 F-150 and expect them to upgrade it to 2017 standards for free.
View Quote
Okay, I read that wrong. I though you were defending them because a wrench was not available for them to design around.

While the rest of the logic might be true if it was simply the addition of a feature, it falls apart when the issue is a defect. If it was advertised as a modular can, then it should have a reasonable way to disassemble it that doesn't involve damaging of the product, but it did not. That is a defect.

When a car has a defect, auto manufacturers will generally fix the issue in present and future models of the car,  but then issue recalls for previous years that were effected.

Griffin could offer other things short of a free replacement that would stratify customers. This could be modification of the existing housing, or offering the upgrade at a much lower cost. It's their screw up, the customer should not be paying for it.
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 2:33:07 AM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 2:58:55 AM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 7:32:25 AM EDT
[#20]
I don't understand comparing the gen 1 rev 9 to a new model car. I have a liberty mystic and never once thought or said that they should offer an upgrade for free once the mystic X came out. Just offering the service was a nice option to see for gen 1 users, however I don't think this is the same thing. My mystic did what it said it could do.

Am I to believe because it was the first modular can we shouldn't have expected it to be modular, and if we were mechanically inclined we wouldn't have followed the manufacturer's instructions to apply red loctite? Really?

Ok, I'll accept all of the above. Now, how do I send in the booster housing only when I can't separate it from the tube?
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 8:31:01 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

At Silencer Co, the Sakers featured a mount that apparently hundreds of end users have had false positives with and shot the cans down range - some of them multiple times- and no design modifications I'm aware of occurred to my knowledge.  Several generations of buyers bought the cans and now the mount appears to be in the process of being or has been phased out.  
View Quote


FWIW, SilencerCo may not have made design modifications to the Trifecta mount, but they are still taking care of their users by offering a no-cost exchange for Trifecta mounts to ASR mounts as well as exchanging all muzzle devices free-of-charge.

When SilencerCo ECO'ed the stainless sleeve surrounding the birdcage in the Octane to the petal design, they upgraded users for free.

When they upgraded the Omega ASR mount to increase the length due to fouling, they exchanged old mounts with new mounts for free.


Not trying to white knight for SilencerCo, but they are taking care of their customers as they make design modifications.

You guys are making design changes/upgrades and deciding on how those changes/upgrades are implemented in the field including the cost. In general, nobody expects to receive upgrades for free although there is some expectation of the manufacturer taking care of the customer when FCOs restore basic functionality of the product.
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 10:27:41 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


FWIW, SilencerCo may not have made design modifications to the Trifecta mount, but they are still taking care of their users by offering a no-cost exchange for Trifecta mounts to ASR mounts as well as exchanging all muzzle devices free-of-charge.

When SilencerCo ECO'ed the stainless sleeve surrounding the birdcage in the Octane to the petal design, they upgraded users for free.

When they upgraded the Omega ASR mount to increase the length due to fouling, they exchanged old mounts with new mounts for free.


Not trying to white knight for SilencerCo, but they are taking care of their customers as they make design modifications.

You guys are making design changes/upgrades and deciding on how those changes/upgrades are implemented in the field including the cost. In general, nobody expects to receive upgrades for free although there is some expectation of the manufacturer taking care of the customer when FCOs restore basic functionality of the product.
View Quote
Thanks Engineer for eloquently stating those comparisons.
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 10:34:12 AM EDT
[#23]
so instead of giving a response geared towards the problem this thread is about you would rather deflect and bring up other companies past or current issues that have either been taken care of or are of no similarity.

Nobody is asking for anything for free here but really $150?
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 11:26:16 AM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 11:31:01 AM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 11:44:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


 Green0...Are you telling me it takes your engineer 4 generations to get it correct the fifth times??!!   Maybe you need to hire Our Engineer at this forum or BadgerArms who saw the ' no wrench compatible part' and its wrench.
 The crux of the problem is there are members here have had problems removing the part since there are no tools to use.  You guys should know more about the design, tools to remove parts, than the average users here.  Please don't shift the blame on us for your engineer's lack of experience.
View Quote
Standard m.o. in most all their posts.

Wasn't that last half-baffle going to be available as an upgrade also?  I seem to remember that being said.
 

ETA:  GA all we want is a way to get the sour taste out of us Revolution Gen 1 owner's mouths.  A RECCE5 and m4sdk were my next purchases to be had.  They seem to be awesome cans but without a better option for the Revolution problem I will not be spending money on them.  The whole fool me once thing...
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 12:36:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
 Green0...Are you telling me it takes your engineer 4 generations to get it correct the fifth times??!!   Maybe you need to hire Our Engineer at this forum or BadgerArms who saw the ' no wrench compatible part' and its wrench.
View Quote
That's a GROSS misrepresentation of my point.  My point is that you bought a product that Griffin says was the first 'modular' suppressor on the market.  This was before everybody started doing this.  While it's easy to Monday-morning quarterback the company for not including wrench notches and a wrench with the product, it's disingenuous to expect them to have thought about that and included that feature on the first product.  Why didn't Maxim have QD mounts, K-baffles, and a modular endcap on his silencers?  Let's dig him up and make him pay to give us those features.  Duh, everybody knows that's the way you make silencers!  In 10 years when EVERYBODY is 3D printing their suppressors for $5 apiece, do you expect a Refund because 3D printed silencers have been on the market for a few years as of now?  (seriously, look that up.  They've been around a bit)  When Griffin comes out with a bayonet-lock QD configurable housing that makes perfect sense to our future selves, are people going to be expecting Griffin to foot the bill for the upgrade?

You're asking a bit too much of the engineering department to think up every possibility on the first generation guns.  The Griffin Time Machine is still in the design phase.  Cut them a break.

As far as the ASR mount and Silencerco's free upgrades... those aren't upgrades.  There were LOTS of legitimate problems with the SiCo product.  That's more of a recall or a fix than an upgrade.
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 1:42:24 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
As far as the ASR mount and Silencerco's free upgrades... those aren't upgrades.  There were LOTS of legitimate problems with the SiCo product.  That's more of a recall or a fix than an upgrade.
View Quote
This is a legitimate problem with the gen 1 Revolution. It's the exact same type of situation. It is not an upgrade when you are fixing a design flaw.

GA, you guys make great products, but some of your business descions are not very wise. Even if it wasn't free, charging a more reasonable price would still be better than the slap in the face of $145. Maybe $50 would be  less offensive to customers.
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 2:02:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This is a legitimate problem with the gen 1 Revolution. It's the exact same type of situation. It is not an upgrade when you are fixing a design flaw.

GA, you guys make great products, but some of your business descions are not very wise. Even if it wasn't free, charging a more reasonable price would still be better than the slap in the face of $145. Maybe $50 would be  less offensive to customers.
View Quote
I'll have to defer to owners on that one, but it's red loctite.  You have to heat it to 450 or 650 degrees all around to soften the loctite.  I imagine that this may account for a good percentage of the problems had.  This isn't rocket science.  These are threads.  They behave like other threads.  There's no good place to grip the housing, but then that was the product offered.  I knew a mechanic once who squeezed a pair of vice grips so hard the jaws broke.  I bet Dave could change out the housing with his bare hands.
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 2:30:03 PM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 2:44:11 PM EDT
[#31]
I have a revolution 9 gen 1 in jail now and should have it any day now. For those that have one, is it worth while for me to upgrade right away?
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 3:57:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have a revolution 9 gen 1 in jail now and should have it any day now. For those that have one, is it worth while for me to upgrade right away?
View Quote
Are you sure that it is a gen 1?
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 8:41:04 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Are you sure that it is a gen 1?
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I know full well that it does not have the wrench flats at the booster assembly
Link Posted: 4/26/2017 9:04:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Price is determined by the vendor; purchase, by the consumer.

From a value standpoint, $145  is a lot just to ease piston removal, & it won't affect fixed bbl/3-lug application at all.  Thus, IMO, from a value standpoint, the price is high for the functional benefit it offers.  For $50-$75, I'd probably buy in.

Besides, I just ordered a Ghost 45M, so I'll keep the Rev45 dedicated to the Scorp in 3-lug mode.
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 4:30:14 AM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have a revolution 9 gen 1 in jail now and should have it any day now. For those that have one, is it worth while for me to upgrade right away?
View Quote
no
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 12:44:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 7:29:27 PM EDT
[#37]
I keep my Rev 9 and 45 in long configuration, so that hasn't been a problem for me as far as swapping things around.  I have been changing out the pistons/3-lug/direct-thread adapters ever so often though.  I bought the strap wrenches mentioned in a previous thread that helped me a lot.  Some times when they were very stuck I had to get some help of my vice.  Not really a huge deal. 

Well, after seeing the upgrade that was being offered the concept seemed easy enough, so I put on my big girl panties and did a DIY mod.  Mini-mill to cut the notches and a laser to cut the wrenches.  Boom! Still no complaints for the Griffin guys.





I have one wrench based on the smaller three lug drawing and the other with the large.  I may end up making another on with both on one wrench. I still have to coat them in Moly Resin this weekend.


CHRIS
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 7:36:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I keep my Rev 9 and 45 in long configuration, so that hasn't been a problem for me as far as swapping things around.  I have been changing out the pistons/3-lug/direct-thread adapters ever so often though.  I bought the strap wrenches mentioned in a previous thread that that helped me a lot.  Some times when they were very stuck I had to get some help of my vice.  Not really a huge deal. 

Well, after seeing the upgrade that was being offered the concept seemed easy enough, so I put on my big girl panties and did a DIY mod.  Mini-mill to cut the notches and a laser to cut the wrenches.  Boom! Still no complaints for the Griffin guys.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Chrissopher/rev%20wrench%201_zpscmappnvu.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Chrissopher/rev%20wrench%202_zps3woarfxj.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Chrissopher/rev%20wrench%203_zpss9qlrqb7.jpg

I have one wrench based on the smaller three lug drawing and the other with the large.  I may end up making another on with both on one wrench. I still have to coat them in Moly Resin this weekend.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Chrissopher/rev%20wrench%204_zps6gxvltbu.jpg

CHRIS
View Quote
So you're charging $140?
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 7:51:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 8:12:28 PM EDT
[#40]
GA if you cant get your bottom line to pencil out good enough to take care of existing customers for a realistic price I guess that is fine.

But what I personally could do without is a long winded speech that comes off as possibly demeaning to your customer base and sounds like it was purposely written to come off as being overly intelect.

I can see you guys being worried about the unforeseen flood of Rev9 & 45 upgrades if you would offer it at a better cost however I would like to know how big your civilian customer base is if you would take those of us on these forums out of your sales.  Another words I cant see how helping out us diehard NFA customers on this board would hurt you in the long run.
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 8:33:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I keep my Rev 9 and 45 in long configuration, so that hasn't been a problem for me as far as swapping things around.  I have been changing out the pistons/3-lug/direct-thread adapters ever so often though.  I bought the strap wrenches mentioned in a previous thread that helped me a lot.  Some times when they were very stuck I had to get some help of my vice.  Not really a huge deal. 

Well, after seeing the upgrade that was being offered the concept seemed easy enough, so I put on my big girl panties and did a DIY mod.  Mini-mill to cut the notches and a laser to cut the wrenches.  Boom! Still no complaints for the Griffin guys.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Chrissopher/rev%20wrench%201_zpscmappnvu.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Chrissopher/rev%20wrench%202_zps3woarfxj.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Chrissopher/rev%20wrench%203_zpss9qlrqb7.jpg

I have one wrench based on the smaller three lug drawing and the other with the large.  I may end up making another on with both on one wrench. I still have to coat them in Moly Resin this weekend.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Chrissopher/rev%20wrench%204_zps6gxvltbu.jpg

CHRIS
View Quote
Chris, if you don't mind sharing, what are the dimensions of the notch & scallops on the mounts?  I can draw up some tool designs with AutoCAD, but cutting the mounts I'll have to do by hand.
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 8:34:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I keep my Rev 9 and 45 in long configuration, so that hasn't been a problem for me as far as swapping things around.  I have been changing out the pistons/3-lug/direct-thread adapters ever so often though.  I bought the strap wrenches mentioned in a previous thread that helped me a lot.  Some times when they were very stuck I had to get some help of my vice.  Not really a huge deal. 

Well, after seeing the upgrade that was being offered the concept seemed easy enough, so I put on my big girl panties and did a DIY mod.  Mini-mill to cut the notches and a laser to cut the wrenches.  Boom! Still no complaints for the Griffin guys. CHRIS
View Quote
I have a pair of big girl panties, but I do not have the mini-mill or laser.  My Ocatne is going under the file, though.  Yes, a file and a Dremmel should get me through this.  Not like I've got $1,000 invested in my Octane setup, mounts, pistons, and accessories or anything.  Hey, SiCo fixes stupid, right?  I'm about to do stupid.
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 8:41:09 PM EDT
[#43]
The scallops have a .25" radius and are inset.
The notch was based on a 3/16" endmill.  It's the smallest size that I had spares for.   

CHRIS
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 8:42:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I have a pair of big girl panties, but I do not have the mini-mill or laser.  My Ocatne is going under the file, though.  Yes, a file and a Dremmel should get me through this.  Not like I've got $1,000 invested in my Octane setup, mounts, pistons, and accessories or anything.  Hey, SiCo fixes stupid, right?  I'm about to do stupid.
View Quote
I have to lock my Dremel and files up.

CHRIS
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 9:14:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have to lock my Dremel and files up.
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I am very experienced at jacking stuff up.  Years of bubba repairs and Jerry-rigging (it's okay, I'm German) have honed my skils to a blunt, jagged point.  What could possibly go wrong?
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 9:22:17 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I have a pair of big girl panties, but I do not have the mini-mill or laser.  My Ocatne is going under the file, though.  Yes, a file and a Dremmel should get me through this.  Not like I've got $1,000 invested in my Octane setup, mounts, pistons, and accessories or anything.  Hey, SiCo fixes stupid, right?  I'm about to do stupid.
View Quote
Am I missing something or why do you need to modify the Octane? I thought we were talking about the Revolution here???
Link Posted: 4/27/2017 9:35:38 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Am I missing something or why do you need to modify the Octane? I thought we were talking about the Revolution here???
View Quote
My piston housing is now sitting on my shop bench next to the tube.  It came out on me.  I'd prefer not to have to loctite it.  One notch and I'm using my CAR-15 stock wrench to tighten it down.  Also can use the stock wrench to take the can off of the gun.  It was stuck on my Thureon Defense gun at the range and that's why it came loose.  I must be stronger than I thought.  I was also going to make a flat wrench for the fixed-barrel mount.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 12:35:22 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The scallops have a .25" radius and are inset.
The notch was based on a 3/16" endmill.  It's the smallest size that I had spares for.   

CHRIS
View Quote
I can also base the notch on the AR tube wrench dim.  Thanks.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 1:07:03 AM EDT
[#49]
Cannon plug pliers


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 1:27:30 AM EDT
[#50]
I have a mini-mill but no time to bother with sorting it out, so I went for the upgrade.  


The cans function as advertised, and GA didn't sell them to me promising free parts later.
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