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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:10:01 PM EDT
[#1]
I kind of thought they always did consider them to be parts. It's too bad at any rate. Rules like these are counter-intuitive. They hurt the consumer and rob him of freedom and functionality. Obviously that's not really new though, the government requires cars to have a muffler, but intentionally makes it tough to get an OSHA ear safety / noise pollution reducer for louder firearms. It's been 80+ years the government has encouraged shooters to go deaf.
You go to the range, and they baffle it, to reduce noise in the surrounding community by ~13DB, at the detriment of your hearing. When all the while you could drop 30+DB with a sound suppressor without baffling the range at all. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:11:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Just saw a post on TFB that the ATF has declared wipes to be considered silencer parts. Pretty interesting if you ask me. Link It feels like we are going backwards 
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:13:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Screw them. This is BS.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:28:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Didn't read
Calling BS Don't give a shit though, I'll buy more and use pikes as I see fit |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:32:50 PM EDT
[#5]
So, who wrote the letter? Fess Up.
In seriousness, this only applies to the Ghost M. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:33:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Such bullshit. This will not help with sales for the Dead Air Ghost. Also, many people probably purchased that product at least partly because of this feature that has now been arbitrarily nullified by the powers that be. I don't even own anything w/ wipes and this seriously chaps my ass. Fuck that alphabet agency.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:34:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, who wrote the letter? Fess Up. 
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:36:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, who wrote the letter? Fess Up. In seriousness, this only applies to the Ghost M. SiCO? 
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:37:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SiCO? |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:40:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Seriously though, how does the dead air design differ from something like my Thompson machine wiped can?
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:40:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Wipes have always been parts IIRC.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:51:21 PM EDT
[#12]
If shouldering a stabilizing brace turns a pistol into a SBR, does that also mean that water will also soon be a silencer part if we decide to run wet?
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:54:52 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
does that also mean that water will also soon be a silencer part if we decide to run wet? |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:56:09 PM EDT
[#14]
They took the wipes off of their website. I have a Ghost in jail right now, I was on the website earlier this week ant they had the wipes for sale. Not sure if I would have bought the wipes or not, but this is some BS.
This is what happens when some pencil pusher bureaucrat can regulate from his desk. No law, no ruling, no vote, just some jackass in an office in DC. WTF.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 6:57:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Umm, what is a wipe?
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Posted: 3/20/2017 7:08:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Umm, what is a wipe? 
But in short wipes are generally made of a rubber or some other poly compound and put into a silencer tube. They are "disposable" and only last 10-20 rounds. They need to be replaced after that. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 7:08:47 PM EDT
[#17]
I was pretty sure wipes have always been a part.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 7:12:14 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 3/20/2017 7:16:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was pretty sure wipes have always been a part. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 7:20:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Such garbage.
 I've had my eye on a Gemtech Aurora when they were available again. Wiped cans always interested me especially from a historical context.
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Posted: 3/20/2017 7:27:36 PM EDT
[#21]
So hardware stores that sell rubber washers are now illegally selling suppressor parts?
What do they think they're accomplishing with this? |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 7:27:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Screw them. This is BS. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 7:33:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was pretty sure wipes have always been a part. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 7:52:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Curious so I looked on a few sites that had the Dead Air Ghost wipes for sale and sure enough the pics are there but when you click on it them it say product not available.
Maybe Dead Air will make a 9mm end cap now because it would suck to be stuck with 45 "wiped end cap" that sticks out 1/2" longer than it should with wipes no longer available 
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Posted: 3/20/2017 7:58:53 PM EDT
[#25]
This type of shit is what will help HPA pass. Copy and paste to you Congressman and Senator!
JPK. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:10:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Here I am, hoping that I can get DM to make me a wipe endcap for my Resistance 9...
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:23:46 PM EDT
[#27]
You've got to be kidding me! I just picked up my Ghost last week!
The wipes were the main reason I bought the Ghost over the Obsidian. Well fuck me.......... And waited an extra couple months because they were'nt in stock.....this is bullshit! |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:34:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Such garbage. I've had my eye on a Gemtech Aurora when they were available again. Wiped cans always interested me especially from a historical context. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 9:16:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Here you go straight from Dead Airs website:
deadairsilencers Valued Dead Air customers, dealers and wholesalers, Last week, we were notified by the BATFE that they consider the accessory aperture wipe on our Ghost 45M suppressor to be a “silencer” part. We presented them with the Bardwell ATF opinion letter (http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/atf_letter66.txt)* that is commonly used as justification for the use of wipes and replacement of wipes in silencers by their owners. This morning, we were informally notified that the BATFE FTB does not share the opinion of the Bardwell letter regarding wipes not being silencer parts, and asked that we take immediate corrective action. As such we are immediately discontinuing the sale of accessory wipes for that product. The aperture wipe for the Ghost has always been an optional use item. We have consciously decided NOT to pursue the issue with FTB, as the resulting opinion letter, based on the informal notification to us, may have a potential negative impact on ALL owners of suppressors that utilize wipes in the design. Moving forward we are conducting research on a wipe constructed of a more durable material, that will be included with the Ghost 45M. Extra or additional wipes will not be available for sale. Other options and clarifications are being sought as well. Dead Air has developed and will release a new linear compensator product for handguns and submachineguns that will lead to cross compatibility with some Ghost accessories, including pistons, fixed mounts and caliber specific caps. We appreciate the support of our customer, dealers and wholesalers, and will continue to bring innovative, quality products to the market. If there are any questions regarding this issue or any questions about our products, please contact us at [email protected] Thank You, Gary Hughes Director of Sales Dead Air Silencers *Bardwell letter “In regard to the two parts in your cited example, we consider a baffle to be a silencer, but a wipe, which is usually nothing more than a rubber or plastic disc with a hole in it, is generally not considered to be a silencer. Thus an individual owner could replace a wipe.” |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:14:53 AM EDT
[#30]
Does anyone know the dimensions on the wipes?
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?&field-keywords=Neoprene washer&tag=vglnk-c102-20 |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 6:45:06 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anyone know the dimensions on the wipes? https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?&field-keywords=Neoprene washer&tag=vglnk-c102-20 |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 8:01:55 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1-1/4" OD X 1/4" ID X 1/8". |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 8:03:58 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wipes have always been parts IIRC. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 8:18:30 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what I thought too From the text of the letter: "In regard to the two parts in your cited example, we consider abaffle to be a silencer, but a wipe, which is usually nothing morethan a rubber or plastic disc with a hole in it, is generally not considered to be a silencer. Thus an individual owner could replace a wipe." However, the recent Dead Air notification runs counter 18 U.S.C., § 921(A)(24) in that these rubber fender washers are not solely intended to be used in silencers and therefore are legal as user replaceable wipes. "The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication." |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 8:33:49 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Such garbage. I've had my eye on a Gemtech Aurora when they were available again. Wiped cans always interested me especially from a historical context.https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-licensed-gunsmith-receive-nfa-firearm-purposes-repair "Yes, a licensed gunsmith may receive a National Firearms Act firearm for the sole purpose of repair and subsequent return to its owner. It is suggested [but not required. HB] that the owner obtain permission from ATF for the transfer by submitting an ATF Form 5, Application for Tax Exempt Transfer and Registration of Firearm, to the NFA Branch and receive approval prior to the delivery. The gunsmith should do the same prior to returning the firearm." |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 8:53:40 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication." Quote HistoryQuoted:
"The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication." Quoted:
I kind of thought they always did consider them to be parts. Quoted:
Wipes have always been parts IIRC. Quoted:
Quoted:
I was pretty sure wipes have always been a part. Quoted:
That's what I thought too And my understanding of opinion letters are that they only apply to the individual listed on the letter. So unless anyone's name is Bardwell you're probably SOL. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 9:09:48 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And my understanding of opinion letters are that they only apply to the individual listed on the letter. So unless anyone's name is Bardwell you're probably SOL. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 10:01:28 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is true. Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is true. In regard to the two parts in your cited example, we consider a
baffle to be a silencer, but a wipe, which is usually nothing more than a rubber or plastic disc with a hole in it, is generally not considered to be a silencer. Thus an individual owner could replace a wipe. A baffle. A wipe. Not 'your baffles'. 'Your wipes'. 'An individual owner' not 'You the owner of this specific silencer'. Maddening. So a letter sent today asking clarification on wipes would get a different response? WTF? (Please don't write). /rant off |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 10:52:37 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And my understanding of opinion letters are that they only apply to the individual listed on the letter. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 11:21:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I measured at 1-3/16" OD x 1/4" ID x 1/8", or 30mm OD x 6mm ID x 3mm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
1-1/4" OD X 1/4" ID X 1/8". https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011J896D8?tag=vglnk-c102-20 |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 11:21:33 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is an internet myth. The letters are legally meaningless. They merely give guidance as to how ATF would enforce the law. ATF cannot write a letter allowing you to break the law. We have seen what happens when they give you an approved, tax-stamped Form 1 to make a machine gun. It does not work out the way the named recipient thinks it will. Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is an internet myth. The letters are legally meaningless. They merely give guidance as to how ATF would enforce the law. ATF cannot write a letter allowing you to break the law. We have seen what happens when they give you an approved, tax-stamped Form 1 to make a machine gun. It does not work out the way the named recipient thinks it will. Good times...... 
Quoted:
So a letter sent today asking clarification on wipes would get a different response? WTF? (Please don't write). 
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Posted: 3/21/2017 11:27:07 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kills me is that the ATF issues a letter to an individual, however they state: Although the letter is addressed to one person, the language used makes it seem like it's a global belief. A baffle. A wipe. Not 'your baffles'. 'Your wipes'. 'An individual owner' not 'You the owner of this specific silencer'. Maddening. So a letter sent today asking clarification on wipes would get a different response? WTF? (Please don't write). /rant off Further, while it is true that this applies specifically to DA's wipes, no one can realistically think that it wouldn't cover others who might have aspirations to offer the accessories. ETA: There's enough ambiguity in our firearms laws (and all laws really) that people should be able to write the ATF and get consistent answers that have at least some legal significance. The current system of maybe break the law and then beg/hope for forgiveness after the fact just doesn't work. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 11:29:23 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what you're saying is that the truth is literally WORSE than my understanding. Good times...... We will have to see if this is the opening round of a new ruling on wipes. Wipes, swappable endcaps, modular silencers, it is only a matter of time before ATF reacts. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 11:43:18 AM EDT
[#44]
I emailed Dead Air this morning and asked what the plans are to remedy this BS. Less than 2 hours later Rob called me with an answer.
1. They are furiously working on a solution that will be provided free of charge to current owners. 2. Two options he mentioned were 9mm endcaps, and much more durable long term wipes. 3. They would let everybody know in a week or two. I'm happy with their quick personal response, and the answer. I don't know what else they can do. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 11:54:09 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The letter says the GhostM wipe is a silencer part. So it applies to anyone in posssession of a GhostM wipe. But the letter does not apply to all wipes for all silencers. We will have to see if this is the opening round of a new ruling on wipes. Wipes, swappable endcaps, modular silencers, it is only a matter of time before ATF reacts. I think that we have all been waiting for this other shoe to drop since the original Saker and the Salvo hit. Momma says: "The chickens are coming home to roost, Bobby Boucher." |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:15:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well to be fair DA never got a letter. No paper was exchanged. Notice the release. It calls out they were informally notified. Which typically means a phone call. I think that we have all been waiting for this other shoe to drop since the original Saker and the Salvo hit. Momma says: "The chickens are coming home to roost, Bobby Boucher." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The letter says the GhostM wipe is a silencer part. So it applies to anyone in posssession of a GhostM wipe. But the letter does not apply to all wipes for all silencers. We will have to see if this is the opening round of a new ruling on wipes. Wipes, swappable endcaps, modular silencers, it is only a matter of time before ATF reacts. I think that we have all been waiting for this other shoe to drop since the original Saker and the Salvo hit. Momma says: "The chickens are coming home to roost, Bobby Boucher." |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:19:33 PM EDT
[#47]
I was under the impression you could not buy a wipe, just as you cannot not buy extra baffles.
BUT you could make your own replacement wipes. However, you cannot not make your own extra baffles after the suppressor had been manufactured. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:29:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With an Oculus and obsidian pending this concerns me. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 12:43:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wipes, swappable endcaps, modular silencers, it is only a matter of time before ATF reacts.
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Posted: 3/21/2017 1:53:55 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1-1/4" OD X 1/4" ID X 1/8". https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L1IUICA?tag=vglnk-c102-20 |
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