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 35lightnin 
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Joined: Jan 2012  LA, USA
 Posts: 38 Feedback: 100% (1) |
Posted: 4/23/2012 10:54:42 AM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT Looking to set me straight - has anyone submitted a Form 4 using a trust and no item decription? I'm thinking this route will get it kicked back to me. |
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die-tryin
"MADCOW"
Team Member
Joined: Mar 2003 FL, USA
Posts: 28845 Feedback: 100% (138) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/23/2012 11:12:31 AM
[Last Edit: 4/23/2012 11:15:05 AM by die-tryin]
A Trust MUST hold something. There for, there is a Schedule A. IF your trust only has $10bux in it, send the schedule A with the $10bux listed. You will get held up in the process if you dont submit a Schedule A.
Im am getting ready to send in a Form 4 for a Gemtech Trek-T, I will NOT list this on the schedule A until the Form 4 comes back approved, at that time, the Trek-T will added to the Schedule A. |
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Posted: 4/23/2012 11:51:03 AM
Thanks for the reply - looks like my dealer is right
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Posted: 4/24/2012 4:35:08 AM
can the trust hold anything ? like a 2 dollar bill?
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Chesh97
si vis pacem, para bellum
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Joined: Jun 2005 USA
Posts: 7903 Feedback: 100% (2) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/24/2012 4:41:22 AM
Originally Posted By die-tryin: A Trust MUST hold something. There for, there is a Schedule A. IF your trust only has $10bux in it, send the schedule A with the $10bux listed. You will get held up in the process if you dont submit a Schedule A. Im am getting ready to send in a Form 4 for a Gemtech Trek-T, I will NOT list this on the schedule A until the Form 4 comes back approved, at that time, the Trek-T will added to the Schedule A. This is correct! You DO NOT put the item you are seeking approval on the Form 4 on the Schedule A you send it. However, you have to have a schecule A included that includes something. Trust has to be funded to be valid. I started mine with a Glock 17 |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 6:30:39 AM
Thank you for this information. I am about to send in for my second suppressor. The weird thing is with my first suppressor the only thing in the trust was the first suppressor I was trying to get. Everything went through fine. Good to know I don't have to list the second one until it is actually in my possession.
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Posted: 4/24/2012 8:31:01 AM
Right now I have sixteen stamps from eight different examiners on my trust. Every one submitted had only the item being applied for on the schedule A, I don't think you'll have an issue with it.
Examiners who have approved forms this way in the past: Clutter Henson Jones Howard Payne Feltner Dudash Farris (two last week, six pending) |
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Posted: 4/24/2012 10:40:11 PM
There is more than one acceptable process. People have described their methods above.
My personal preference is to list the item from the Form 4 (or Form 1 for SBR's) on the Schedule A as follows: Suppressor Make, Model, Serial Number (Form 4 submitted waiting approval). I prefer this method as it shows the item as an asset of the trust pending BATFE approval. If I were to pass away while the package is with the BATFE office, the Schedule A would accurately reflect the items owned by the trust and the Trustee would be better able to execute their duties. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 12:24:39 AM
[Last Edit: 4/25/2012 12:25:25 AM by GilaMonster]
Originally Posted By BenJAMan:
can the trust hold anything ? like a 2 dollar bill? Yup, that is what I did, put in a two dollar bill identified by the serial number. ETA: Nothing better than having a picture of the signers of the Declaration of Independence as an item in your trust. |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 4:47:55 AM
Originally Posted By GilaMonster:
Originally Posted By BenJAMan:
can the trust hold anything ? like a 2 dollar bill? Yup, that is what I did, put in a two dollar bill identified by the serial number. ETA: Nothing better than having a picture of the signers of the Declaration of Independence as an item in your trust. thats what I was thinking  |
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Posted: 4/25/2012 6:42:53 AM
Originally Posted By DSB:
There is more than one acceptable process. People have described their methods above. My personal preference is to list the item from the Form 4 (or Form 1 for SBR's) on the Schedule A as follows: Suppressor Make, Model, Serial Number (Form 4 submitted waiting approval). I prefer this method as it shows the item as an asset of the trust pending BATFE approval. If I were to pass away while the package is with the BATFE office, the Schedule A would accurately reflect the items owned by the trust and the Trustee would be better able to execute their duties. I believe my schedule A has dates on it for my first suppressor. If I add the pending suppressor then do update with the most recent dates or leave it? |
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Posted: 4/26/2012 10:30:35 PM
Originally Posted By Burn-z:
Originally Posted By DSB:
There is more than one acceptable process. People have described their methods above. My personal preference is to list the item from the Form 4 (or Form 1 for SBR's) on the Schedule A as follows: Suppressor Make, Model, Serial Number (Form 4 submitted waiting approval). I prefer this method as it shows the item as an asset of the trust pending BATFE approval. If I were to pass away while the package is with the BATFE office, the Schedule A would accurately reflect the items owned by the trust and the Trustee would be better able to execute their duties. I believe my schedule A has dates on it for my first suppressor. If I add the pending suppressor then do update with the most recent dates or leave it? I update the date for the schedule A, add any new items as pending and either update previously pending items as approved or leave as pending as appropriate. I only list NFA items on the schedule A submitted and state other categories (non-NFA guns, bank accounts,etc) as Redacted |
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Posted: 4/27/2012 10:11:41 AM
Also, if your Trust has multiple Grantors (i.e. your wife) you will want to send in a Schedule B and C. I had a stamp delayed because I didn't send them in too. Just sent in to sheets that were blank with "Schedule B" and "Schedule C" at the top.
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hamptonyellowdog
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Joined: Apr 2004 NH, USA
Posts: 2103 Feedback: 100% (114) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/27/2012 10:27:11 AM
I submitted my form 4 with the proposed suppressor in the schedule A based on the fact that the trust has disbursed the funds for its purchase. Not sure if it is correct. Three months in. I'll post an update if it doesn't get approved.
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Posted: 4/27/2012 11:05:19 AM
I submitted my schedule A with a description of the suppressor approval date as "Pending" Was approved by Snook last Friday.
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Strongbow
A Boxer-Henry .45 caliber miracle
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Joined: Dec 2008 IN, USA
Posts: 10984 Feedback: 100% (18) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/27/2012 12:11:50 PM
JUst went through this.
My first 4 stamps, I did not send Schedule A and got the stamp no problem. The last one, it got delayed and they sent an error letter asking for Schedule A. I called her to clarify. She was very cordial and said to include it in all future trust submittals and to include the property purchased. It belongs to the trust, even though the trust cannot legally take posession until the stamp is approve. So..... I added the suppressor, and sent in the schedule. Had the stamp a week later. |
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jcsparky
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Joined: Sep 2009 AK, USA
Posts: 341 Feedback: 100% (1) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/27/2012 4:22:14 PM
My approvals got held up this week too, cause of no Schedule A- or B. I called and spoke with the gentleman, even though this would be the first items in the trust.
He wanted to see the blank schedule A as I informed him there was nothing in there. just the pending items in front of him. So I sent the blank Schedule A&B forms. He called this morning and said my items went to the reviewer, and I should have my approval and stamps next week. !! So next time, I'll add the new items, Leave out Schedule B ( Non NFA) list pending items for the ones in review. He said, if it was referred to in the trust then it was part of the trust? not sure bout that, but. ! COOL. It was pending Nov 2. We'll see next week. |
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Posted: 4/27/2012 6:30:52 PM
FWIW, I have personally called the NFA branch and asked about this very issue. I was told that ATF's position is that the NFA item for which the trust is being submitted should NOT be listed on the Schedule A, because until the paperwork is approved the item cannot be property of the trust. I have done trusts for two Form 4s and one Form 1 for friends and family, and did not include the suppressors or the SBR-to-be Draco as trust property. The paperwork is still pending, so we'll see what ATF ultimately does. It seems like you get a different answer depending on who you ask. That said, it makes sense to me to leave the pending item off Schedule A since it is not yet trust property. That's how I'll continue to do it. YMMV...
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yamatitan
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Life Member
Joined: Nov 2008 LA, USA
Posts: 1053 Feedback: 100% (2) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/27/2012 9:18:51 PM
[Last Edit: 4/27/2012 9:19:12 PM by yamatitan]
Originally Posted By frettedfive:
FWIW, I have personally called the NFA branch and asked about this very issue. I was told that ATF's position is that the NFA item for which the trust is being submitted should NOT be listed on the Schedule A, because until the paperwork is approved the item cannot be property of the trust. I have done trusts for two Form 4s and one Form 1 for friends and family, and did not include the suppressors or the SBR-to-be Draco as trust property. The paperwork is still pending, so we'll see what ATF ultimately does. It seems like you get a different answer depending on who you ask. That said, it makes sense to me to leave the pending item off Schedule A since it is not yet trust property. That's how I'll continue to do it. YMMV... The trust still owns it just cant posses it. If the grantor amended the trust to destroy that suppressor it could regardless if the ATF approved the transfer or not. You think a dealer would destroy something he owned? Prolly not but would he destroy something the trust owned if the trust said to, you bet? No tansfer would ever have to take place. |
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Posted: 4/28/2012 2:56:34 AM
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
A Trust MUST hold something. There for, there is a Schedule A. IF your trust only has $10bux in it, send the schedule A with the $10bux listed. You will get held up in the process if you dont submit a Schedule A. Im am getting ready to send in a Form 4 for a Gemtech Trek-T, I will NOT list this on the schedule A until the Form 4 comes back approved, at that time, the Trek-T will added to the Schedule A. You do not need to include any schedules. They don't need to see what property is vested in the trust. |
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die-tryin
"MADCOW"
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Joined: Mar 2003 FL, USA
Posts: 28877 Feedback: 100% (138) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/28/2012 12:50:05 PM
[Last Edit: 4/28/2012 12:52:05 PM by die-tryin]
Originally Posted By Razoreye:
Originally Posted By die-tryin:
A Trust MUST hold something. There for, there is a Schedule A. IF your trust only has $10bux in it, send the schedule A with the $10bux listed. You will get held up in the process if you dont submit a Schedule A. Im am getting ready to send in a Form 4 for a Gemtech Trek-T, I will NOT list this on the schedule A until the Form 4 comes back approved, at that time, the Trek-T will added to the Schedule A. You do not need to include any schedules. They don't need to see what property is vested in the trust. You are 100000% WRONG. You MUCH include the schedule A and a trust cant exist without owning something, the reason some of us put a small sum of just 10bux, etc. While they dont care what is in the Schedule A, they want to see that one does exist as that is where the CLass III / NFA item will be listed. |
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viperashes
Finger Bang
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Joined: Aug 2011 TX, USA
Posts: 234 Feedback: 0% (0) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/28/2012 1:10:15 PM
Originally Posted By GilaMonster: Originally Posted By BenJAMan: can the trust hold anything ? like a 2 dollar bill? Yup, that is what I did, put in a two dollar bill identified by the serial number. ETA: Nothing better than having a picture of the signers of the Declaration of Independence as an item in your trust. I didn't even go that far. My Schedule A held ONE US DOLLAR. No serial number. No other information. Just that single unidentified green piece of stripper candy. |
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johnny000000
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Joined: Mar 2008 USA
Posts: 1188 Feedback: 100% (74) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/28/2012 1:14:32 PM
I always list something in there. Golf clubs, Xbox, $20, Laptop, etc. I just make sure it's got one thing and I'm good to go.
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huge_gator
herbicidal maniac
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Joined: Aug 2005 WA, USA
Posts: 4372 Feedback: 100% (129) Link To This Post |
Posted: 5/2/2012 12:39:48 AM
Originally Posted By AMESO:
I submitted my schedule A with a description of the suppressor approval date as "Pending" Was approved by Snook last Friday. Weird, I did the same thing, had the same examiner and was approved the same day 
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frettedfive
Hoplophile
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Joined: Mar 2009 TX, USA
Posts: 20 Feedback: 0% (0) Link To This Post |
Posted: 5/2/2012 1:12:34 AM
[Last Edit: 5/2/2012 1:14:19 AM by frettedfive]
Originally Posted By yamatitan:
The trust still owns it just cant posses it. If the grantor amended the trust to destroy that suppressor it could regardless if the ATF approved the transfer or not. You think a dealer would destroy something he owned? Prolly not but would he destroy something the trust owned if the trust said to, you bet? No tansfer would ever have to take place. Granted I'm new to the world of Texas trust law and am still learning as I go along, but that doesn't sound right to me. Think about it... How can something belong to the trust if the trust cannot legally possess it? Like I said, ATF's position that I was given was that the item does not belong to the trust until the transfer is approved. Or, to come at it from a different angle... in Texas a trust cannot exist for an illegal purpose. It is illegal to possess an unregistered NFA item, and until the paperwork clears the item is not registered to the trust. So, it would be illegal for the trust to possess the item prior to that. The whole point is that the trustee holds legal title to the thing being held in trust, and I don't see any way one could hold legal title over something that requires ATF's blessing to possess prior to ATF giving that blessing. |
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Posted: 5/2/2012 9:45:51 AM
Originally Posted By GilaMonster:
Originally Posted By BenJAMan:
can the trust hold anything ? like a 2 dollar bill? Yup, that is what I did, put in a two dollar bill identified by the serial number. ETA: Nothing better than having a picture of the signers of the Declaration of Independence as an item in your trust. same here  |
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