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oliver28732
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Posted: 7/10/2009 8:20:07 PM
[Last Edit: 7/10/2009 8:20:07 PM by Lancelot]
Suggestions on suppressors on the market? Was looking at the Gemtech G5 and M402. Digging on youtube seems the G5 is more silent. Looking to get one for a 16 inch middy I just picked up. After I get my paperwork back. Thanks in advance for suggestions/opinions!
DevL
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Posted: 7/10/2009 4:32:07 PM
[Last Edit: 7/10/2009 4:34:40 PM by DevL]
IMO the best can is the AAC SPR/M4. Best flash hider in the can mount, adjustable POI shift at different mount indexes, super fast 1 turn mount, 1 of the top 2 mass produced cans for suppression (the other ebing the Ops 12th model... all other cans are louder than these two), one of, if not the most, durable cans made, relatively light for a reflex can, low back pressure and the only negative is that it wont fit on super short barrels with a fsb close behind the muzle or a rail close behind the muzzle. I have mine on an 11.75" barrel with a 9" rail. A 11.5" barrel requires a carbine rail and short gas block. It can fit a 9.75" barrel with a pistol gas system and carbine rail. What it wont fit is a 11.5" barrel or shorter barrel with a standard FSB in the carbine position. I did have a baffle strike due to a bad round and AAC took care of me so customer service is excellent too.
NotDeaf
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Posted: 7/8/2009 9:07:07 PM
Try the Suppressor Fourm IMHO, YHM, but that's me
...a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, ... Thomas Jefferson
MagazineFed
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Posted: 7/9/2009 5:41:24 AM
Originally Posted By oliver28732:
Suggestions on suppressors on the market? Was looking at the Gemtech G5 and M402. Digging on youtube seems the G5 is more silent. Looking to get one for a 16 inch middy I just picked up. After I get my paperwork back. Thanks in advance for suggestions/opinions!


More silent...that's pretty funny.

You may or may not know that an AR-15 with the best suppressor money can buy will still be very loud and you will still damage your hearing if you shoot without hearing protection. Video cameras can't really capture the actual full sound of a suppressed rifle.

Now that that's been said, are you looking for a direct thread on suppressor or a QD suppressor? If you have more than one AR, you might want the latter. YHM cans are supposed to be nice for the money. Pretty much every brand of suppressor has a lot to be said about it, but all of them work just about the same. I've heard stories of Gemtech HALO cans loosening during long strings of fire.

For me, the main concern is weight, build construction, and cost. I wish a company would make a short, fat, thread on reflex suppressor for under $600, but I doubt anyone will any time soon.
U.S. Army 91F small arms/artillery repairer
Camp Carroll, South Korea
"Never take Jesus pamphlets." -AssaultRifler
Artifex
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Posted: 7/9/2009 7:00:03 AM
I got a G-5... no complaints here really, but do your homework on the G-5 before you buy. Gemtech customer service is great and it's a repairable can if something bad happens - baffle strikes etc... Not that I have ever had one in ...thousands of rounds.

Check out Ops Inc. cans. Also look at surefire, but be prepared to pay more.

...While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
LonghunterCO
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Posted: 7/10/2009 9:03:20 PM
Originally Posted By DevL:
IMO the best can is the AAC SPR/M4. Best flash hider in the can mount, adjustable POI shift at different mount indexes, super fast 1 turn mount, 1 of the top 2 mass produced cans for suppression (the other ebing the Ops 12th model... all other cans are louder than these two), one of, if not the most, durable cans made, relatively light for a reflex can, low back pressure and the only negative is that it wont fit on super short barrels with a fsb close behind the muzle or a rail close behind the muzzle. I have mine on an 11.75" barrel with a 9" rail. A 11.5" barrel requires a carbine rail and short gas block. It can fit a 9.75" barrel with a pistol gas system and carbine rail. What it wont fit is a 11.5" barrel or shorter barrel with a standard FSB in the carbine position. I did have a baffle strike due to a bad round and AAC took care of me so customer service is excellent too.


+1.

Luck favors the prepared.

"This republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it." - Elmer Davis

LonghunterCO- Just another small-town American clinging to his guns and religion.

EoPoint
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Posted: 7/11/2009 2:12:29 AM
I recently shot... then immediately purchased two
Surefire cans (556AR and 212).

I had the AAC M4 2008, SPR/M4 and Omni. They all were very good (especially the SPR).
However aside from their good suppression, the M4 2K and SPR had a lot of blowback.

The reason I went with the Surefire instead was they had about half the blowback...and other reasons.

The thing that stuck out was if I fired a few rounds and took the mag out and ejected the chambered round,
the mag, rounds in the mag and the ejected round all looked extremely dirty. I didn't pay much attention to that
until I shot the Surefire cans. The mags and loaded ammunition (including the fired brass) all looked pretty clean
for being shot suppressed. I decided that must also be an indication of how much gas is being blown back
into the receiver.

Also with the Surefire cans the attachment seemed to have less issues with the teeth locking/timing to the
flash hider than the M42K.

I think the AAC cans may have suppressed a little better but the Surefire can had the best balance
between suppression, weight, attachment and blowback.

WI57
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Posted: 7/11/2009 10:46:02 PM
Originally Posted By EoPoint:
I recently shot... then immediately purchased two
Surefire cans (556AR and 212).

I had the AAC M4 2008, SPR/M4 and Omni. They all were very good (especially the SPR).
However aside from their good suppression, the M4 2K and SPR had a lot of blowback.

The reason I went with the Surefire instead was they had about half the blowback...and other reasons.

The thing that stuck out was if I fired a few rounds and took the mag out and ejected the chambered round,
the mag, rounds in the mag and the ejected round all looked extremely dirty. I didn't pay much attention to that
until I shot the Surefire cans. The mags and loaded ammunition (including the fired brass) all looked pretty clean
for being shot suppressed. I decided that must also be an indication of how much gas is being blown back
into the receiver.

Also with the Surefire cans the attachment seemed to have less issues with the teeth locking/timing to the
flash hider than the M42K
.

I think the AAC cans may have suppressed a little better but the Surefire can had the best balance
between suppression, weight, attachment and blowback.



Can you describe the issues with the lock/timing of AAC cans?
"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
EoPoint
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Posted: 7/11/2009 11:33:05 PM
Just my opinion from my experience with my M42K...

I found that about 1 in 4 flash hiders I came across would allow the suppressor to tighten up fully and have the
rathcet latch fully engage the teeth on the flash hider, With the other 3 out of 4 the suppressor would tighten
up but the ratchet latch would not be locked down. By rotating it counter clockwise you could could get the
latch to lock down but it left a little wiggle in the can.

This has been discussed before and AAC has said the can
would still be within tolerances and it would not be an issue. I do not dispute that there would be no concern with
baffles strikes. I found I had minimal POI shift with the can tight and locked, but if I backed it off one I had some POI
shift...for me appx 3-4" low right at 100yds.

As with the SPR/M4...I found with most all flash hiders 2 of the 5 positions would lock down tight.
It varied from hider to hider but all I tried 2 of 5 locked good. In the locked tight settings I had
minimal POI...I tried this out to 200yd

With both suppressors, tight or not, the suppression was very good (aside form the blowback)

I just found the finer teeth on the Surfire 212 flash hider allowed a better lock up. For me a can that locks down tight
seems to have the least POI shift...if any. I'm sure there are other factors to POI shift.
kilroymcb
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Posted: 7/12/2009 8:20:45 AM
SPR/M4 is the way to go.
"War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him.The ultimate craft awaiting its ultimate practitioner.That is the way it was and will be.That way and not some other."
Cormac Mccarthy
Green0
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Posted: 7/12/2009 1:44:00 PM
Originally Posted By EoPoint:
Just my opinion from my experience with my M42K...

I found that about 1 in 4 flash hiders I came across would allow the suppressor to tighten up fully and have the
rathcet latch fully engage the teeth on the flash hider, With the other 3 out of 4 the suppressor would tighten
up but the ratchet latch would not be locked down. By rotating it counter clockwise you could could get the
latch to lock down but it left a little wiggle in the can.

This has been discussed before and AAC has said the can
would still be within tolerances and it would not be an issue. I do not dispute that there would be no concern with
baffles strikes. I found I had minimal POI shift with the can tight and locked, but if I backed it off one I had some POI
shift...for me appx 3-4" low right at 100yds.

As with the SPR/M4...I found with most all flash hiders 2 of the 5 positions would lock down tight.
It varied from hider to hider but all I tried 2 of 5 locked good. In the locked tight settings I had
minimal POI...I tried this out to 200yd

With both suppressors, tight or not, the suppression was very good (aside form the blowback)

I just found the finer teeth on the Surfire 212 flash hider allowed a better lock up. For me a can that locks down tight
seems to have the least POI shift...if any. I'm sure there are other factors to POI shift.


That was the newer ratchet style with the 17-4SS latch and the fine teeth? How much louder than the AAC product is the 212? Does it ring your ears when you fire? Have you compared it to a KAC M4QD SS NT4? How did the surefire compare to the SSNT4?

So backed off to the first point at which it would lock? If that was producing 3-4MOA of POI shit that represents some eccentricity which is less than ideal.

I hit a little Ivan first round at 300 meters with my 4.5" paclite Ruger MKII. Don't ask me to do it again, I can't. FFL type 07 C2 SOT. 262-613-8984 www.griffinarmament.com
SWATH
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Posted: 7/12/2009 4:02:40 PM
[Last Edit: 7/12/2009 4:02:53 PM by SWATH]
Originally Posted By EoPoint:
Just my opinion from my experience with my M42K...

I found that about 1 in 4 flash hiders I came across would allow the suppressor to tighten up fully and have the
rathcet latch fully engage the teeth on the flash hider, With the other 3 out of 4 the suppressor would tighten
up but the ratchet latch would not be locked down. By rotating it counter clockwise you could could get the
latch to lock down but it left a little wiggle in the can.

This has been discussed before and AAC has said the can
would still be within tolerances and it would not be an issue. I do not dispute that there would be no concern with
baffles strikes. I found I had minimal POI shift with the can tight and locked, but if I backed it off one I had some POI
shift...for me appx 3-4" low right at 100yds.

As with the SPR/M4...I found with most all flash hiders 2 of the 5 positions would lock down tight.
It varied from hider to hider but all I tried 2 of 5 locked good. In the locked tight settings I had
minimal POI...I tried this out to 200yd

With both suppressors, tight or not, the suppression was very good (aside form the blowback)

I just found the finer teeth on the Surfire 212 flash hider allowed a better lock up. For me a can that locks down tight
seems to have the least POI shift...if any. I'm sure there are other factors to POI shift.


With my m42k '08 it tightens to almost latching over on the last notch but doesn't quite make it, so it backs off the maximum that it can before latching. This allows it to wobble around which I do not like at all. I know that it is within spec to avoid a baffle strike but holy shit I can't imagine a pound of weight wobbling around the muzzle can be very good for accuracy or repeatability. I will probably order 4-5 mounts from somewhere to find one that latches tight without the wobble then sell the rest.
WI57
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Posted: 7/12/2009 5:06:54 PM
Originally Posted By EoPoint:
Just my opinion from my experience with my M42K...

I found that about 1 in 4 flash hiders I came across would allow the suppressor to tighten up fully and have the
rathcet latch fully engage the teeth on the flash hider, With the other 3 out of 4 the suppressor would tighten
up but the ratchet latch would not be locked down. By rotating it counter clockwise you could could get the
latch to lock down but it left a little wiggle in the can.

This has been discussed before and AAC has said the can
would still be within tolerances and it would not be an issue. I do not dispute that there would be no concern with
baffles strikes. I found I had minimal POI shift with the can tight and locked, but if I backed it off one I had some POI
shift...for me appx 3-4" low right at 100yds.

As with the SPR/M4...I found with most all flash hiders 2 of the 5 positions would lock down tight.
It varied from hider to hider but all I tried 2 of 5 locked good. In the locked tight settings I had
minimal POI...I tried this out to 200yd

With both suppressors, tight or not, the suppression was very good (aside form the blowback)

I just found the finer teeth on the Surfire 212 flash hider allowed a better lock up. For me a can that locks down tight
seems to have the least POI shift...if any. I'm sure there are other factors to POI shift.



Huh. Thats the first I ever heard of the mounts having problems locking tight.
I guess I'll have to see how mine secure when they get here.
"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
johnsta
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Posted: 7/12/2009 5:30:00 PM
For the price, YHM w/ Quick Detach (QD). IMO.
We will not yield, we cannot yield.
sdodd
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Posted: 7/12/2009 5:33:06 PM
Originally Posted By oliver28732:
Suggestions on suppressors on the market? Was looking at the Gemtech G5 and M402. Digging on youtube seems the G5 is more silent. Looking to get one for a 16 inch middy I just picked up. After I get my paperwork back. Thanks in advance for suggestions/opinions!


So how do you cut the sound from a rifle without lowering the muzzle velocity below the speed of sound??

sdodd
kilroymcb
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Posted: 7/12/2009 8:13:39 PM
Originally Posted By sdodd:
Originally Posted By oliver28732:
Suggestions on suppressors on the market? Was looking at the Gemtech G5 and M402. Digging on youtube seems the G5 is more silent. Looking to get one for a 16 inch middy I just picked up. After I get my paperwork back. Thanks in advance for suggestions/opinions!


So how do you cut the sound from a rifle without lowering the muzzle velocity below the speed of sound??

sdodd


You contain the blast that takes place outside the muzzle from the sudden expansion of gases. And of course, you'll still have a supersonic crack, but that is a small percentage of the overall noise.
"War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him.The ultimate craft awaiting its ultimate practitioner.That is the way it was and will be.That way and not some other."
Cormac Mccarthy
class3dlrguy
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Posted: 7/13/2009 1:11:48 AM
Originally Posted By WI57:
Originally Posted By EoPoint:
Just my opinion from my experience with my M42K...

I found that about 1 in 4 flash hiders I came across would allow the suppressor to tighten up fully and have the
rathcet latch fully engage the teeth on the flash hider, With the other 3 out of 4 the suppressor would tighten
up but the ratchet latch would not be locked down. By rotating it counter clockwise you could could get the
latch to lock down but it left a little wiggle in the can.

This has been discussed before and AAC has said the can
would still be within tolerances and it would not be an issue. I do not dispute that there would be no concern with
baffles strikes. I found I had minimal POI shift with the can tight and locked, but if I backed it off one I had some POI
shift...for me appx 3-4" low right at 100yds.

As with the SPR/M4...I found with most all flash hiders 2 of the 5 positions would lock down tight.
It varied from hider to hider but all I tried 2 of 5 locked good. In the locked tight settings I had
minimal POI...I tried this out to 200yd

With both suppressors, tight or not, the suppression was very good (aside form the blowback)

I just found the finer teeth on the Surfire 212 flash hider allowed a better lock up. For me a can that locks down tight
seems to have the least POI shift...if any. I'm sure there are other factors to POI shift.



Huh. Thats the first I ever heard of the mounts having problems locking tight.
I guess I'll have to see how mine secure when they get here.


WI57,
Talk your wife(soon to be) in to coming down to the Dells for the weekend and we can take your cans out and see how they fit and shoot. Hopefully your forms will turn up down here soon.


DevL
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Posted: 7/13/2009 5:00:47 AM
Originally Posted By EoPoint:
I recently shot... then immediately purchased two
Surefire cans (556AR and 212).

I had the AAC M4 2008, SPR/M4 and Omni. They all were very good (especially the SPR).
However aside from their good suppression, the M4 2K and SPR had a lot of blowback.

The reason I went with the Surefire instead was they had about half the blowback...and other reasons.

The thing that stuck out was if I fired a few rounds and took the mag out and ejected the chambered round,
the mag, rounds in the mag and the ejected round all looked extremely dirty. I didn't pay much attention to that
until I shot the Surefire cans. The mags and loaded ammunition (including the fired brass) all looked pretty clean
for being shot suppressed. I decided that must also be an indication of how much gas is being blown back
into the receiver.

Also with the Surefire cans the attachment seemed to have less issues with the teeth locking/timing to the
flash hider than the M42K.

I think the AAC cans may have suppressed a little better but the Surefire can had the best balance
between suppression, weight, attachment and blowback.




I find it hard to believe an SPR/M4 had a lot of blow back. I have shot several Surefire cans and not noticed less blowback than my SPR/M4.
Green0
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Posted: 7/13/2009 5:31:57 AM
Originally Posted By MagazineFed:
Originally Posted By oliver28732:
Suggestions on suppressors on the market? Was looking at the Gemtech G5 and M402. Digging on youtube seems the G5 is more silent. Looking to get one for a 16 inch middy I just picked up. After I get my paperwork back. Thanks in advance for suggestions/opinions!


More silent...that's pretty funny.

You may or may not know that an AR-15 with the best suppressor money can buy will still be very loud and you will still damage your hearing if you shoot without hearing protection. Video cameras can't really capture the actual full sound of a suppressed rifle.

Now that that's been said, are you looking for a direct thread on suppressor or a QD suppressor? If you have more than one AR, you might want the latter. YHM cans are supposed to be nice for the money. Pretty much every brand of suppressor has a lot to be said about it, but all of them work just about the same. I've heard stories of Gemtech HALO cans loosening during long strings of fire.

For me, the main concern is weight, build construction, and cost. I wish a company would make a short, fat, thread on reflex suppressor for under $600, but I doubt anyone will any time soon.


Ops is making a $300 device similar to that but not fat. The 15th is probably slightly more than $600. Fat doesn't mean quieter neccessarily.
I hit a little Ivan first round at 300 meters with my 4.5" paclite Ruger MKII. Don't ask me to do it again, I can't. FFL type 07 C2 SOT. 262-613-8984 www.griffinarmament.com
MagazineFed
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Posted: 7/13/2009 8:07:08 AM
Originally Posted By Green0:
Originally Posted By MagazineFed:
Originally Posted By oliver28732:
Suggestions on suppressors on the market? Was looking at the Gemtech G5 and M402. Digging on youtube seems the G5 is more silent. Looking to get one for a 16 inch middy I just picked up. After I get my paperwork back. Thanks in advance for suggestions/opinions!


More silent...that's pretty funny.

You may or may not know that an AR-15 with the best suppressor money can buy will still be very loud and you will still damage your hearing if you shoot without hearing protection. Video cameras can't really capture the actual full sound of a suppressed rifle.

Now that that's been said, are you looking for a direct thread on suppressor or a QD suppressor? If you have more than one AR, you might want the latter. YHM cans are supposed to be nice for the money. Pretty much every brand of suppressor has a lot to be said about it, but all of them work just about the same. I've heard stories of Gemtech HALO cans loosening during long strings of fire.

For me, the main concern is weight, build construction, and cost. I wish a company would make a short, fat, thread on reflex suppressor for under $600, but I doubt anyone will any time soon.


Ops is making a $300 device similar to that but not fat. The 15th is probably slightly more than $600. Fat doesn't mean quieter neccessarily.


Fatter means more volume, and thus the baffle can be spaced closer while maintaining the same volume, theoretically making it shorter. It's all a theory; I've still got a year before I start working on my ME degree.
U.S. Army 91F small arms/artillery repairer
Camp Carroll, South Korea
"Never take Jesus pamphlets." -AssaultRifler
1_AR_NEWBIE
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Posted: 7/16/2009 1:03:15 PM
[Last Edit: 7/16/2009 1:05:08 PM by 1_AR_NEWBIE]
Originally Posted By EoPoint:
I recently shot... then immediately purchased two
Surefire cans (556AR and 212).

I had the AAC M4 2008, SPR/M4 and Omni. They all were very good (especially the SPR).
However aside from their good suppression, the M4 2K and SPR had a lot of blowback.

The reason I went with the Surefire instead was they had about half the blowback...and other reasons.

The thing that stuck out was if I fired a few rounds and took the mag out and ejected the chambered round,
the mag, rounds in the mag and the ejected round all looked extremely dirty. I didn't pay much attention to that
until I shot the Surefire cans. The mags and loaded ammunition (including the fired brass) all looked pretty clean
for being shot suppressed. I decided that must also be an indication of how much gas is being blown back
into the receiver.




May I ask, how your gun is setup?

Mike Mers

Train till it is muscle memory!

"Taking fire, breaking right"

DON'T laugh I only have one AR!

GUN GALLERY 4 LIFE!
1_AR_NEWBIE
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Posted: 7/16/2009 1:04:52 PM
Originally Posted By EoPoint:


I think the AAC cans may have suppressed a little better but the Surefire can had the best balance
between suppression, weight, attachment and blowback.



I kinda look at this a little differant...

Isn't the silencers main job to be quiet?

Mike Mers

Train till it is muscle memory!

"Taking fire, breaking right"

DON'T laugh I only have one AR!

GUN GALLERY 4 LIFE!
WI57
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Posted: 7/16/2009 10:39:58 PM
Originally Posted By 1_AR_NEWBIE:
Originally Posted By EoPoint:


I think the AAC cans may have suppressed a little better but the Surefire can had the best balance
between suppression, weight, attachment and blowback.



I kinda look at this a little differant...

Isn't the silencers main job to be quiet?

Mike Mers




+1
"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
LonghunterCO
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Posted: 7/17/2009 10:56:07 AM
Originally Posted By 1_AR_NEWBIE:
Originally Posted By EoPoint:


I think the AAC cans may have suppressed a little better but the Surefire can had the best balance
between suppression, weight, attachment and blowback.



I kinda look at this a little differant...

Isn't the silencers main job to be quiet?

Mike Mers



+2

Luck favors the prepared.

"This republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it." - Elmer Davis

LonghunterCO- Just another small-town American clinging to his guns and religion.

JohnStoner
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:00:54 PM
[Last Edit: 7/17/2009 2:04:05 PM by JohnStoner]
If that was the only consideration we'd be seeing 2" diameter 10" long 45 cal cans, and bigger for .223/.308. If bench guns were the only consideration, then size/weight/blowback wouldn't matter. Personally after a day of shooting, I would take an additional 2-3 db to not have gas in my face and lots of cleaning in actions/magazines. Quiet is good, the full package - at least to me is better. If I wanted hush puppy super quiet, I would form 1 a 3" diameter 14" long .223 can and man would that be quiet. Of course then I wouldn't want to go hunting/training/3 gunning with it on the end of my AR15.

Edit: In answer to the OPs question, Ops Inc hands down. Other offerings from Gemtech (I have the G-5 and am very happy with it), YHM, SWR, AAC and other manufacturers are nice also.

This question is best answered by silencerresearch.com. $30 for a year subscription and it has in depth testing and comparison when it comes to reduction, weight, size, blow back, internal volume etc etc etc etc etc.
BadassWeakling
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Posted: 7/17/2009 2:30:42 PM
[Last Edit: 7/17/2009 2:43:01 PM by BadassWeakling]

Originally Posted By JohnStoner:

This question is best answered by silencerresearch.com. $30 for a year subscription and it has in depth testing and comparison when it comes to reduction, weight, size, blow back, internal volume etc etc etc etc etc.

I agree.

Based on my own personal preferences of characteristics for a suppressor, one company seems to stand out and win in regards to my own preferences for minimal POI shift, sound suppression, price, etc.

It's totally worth the money to pay for the third party independent reviews from Silencer Research, since there are a lot of feuds and drama in the suppressor industry. I'm not a fan of drama, i just want the best product.

ETA: Silencer Research doesn't have Surefire cans. The only side by side comparo with scientific equipment i've seen is on AAC's website. Obviously, some will take issue with the fact AAC conducted these tests but until some other third party steps up to the plate, this is preferred to people's subjective statements. The AAC 416 is the same as the M4-2K IIRC



I don't believe in safe queens, prada rifles, and weapons as fashion statements. YMMV.
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