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Posted: 12/17/2001 10:09:31 AM EST
Well, I've had the rifle for a while now, and this weekend was the first time I've been able to get her sighted in.

I started out at 100 yds, and quickly got her zeroed in.

Then i went out to 200 yards.

I was able to lay down 2-3.5" groups pretty consistently with milsurp ammo.

A better trigger, and a smaller rear peep would have gotten me 2" groups consistently, no problem.

Overall, I would give a rating of DEFINITELY BUY for this rifle, if anyone is looking at getting one.

$800 thru a friendly dealer, who will give it to you for only his transfer fee.

Link Posted: 12/17/2001 10:11:31 AM EST
2-3 1/2" @ 200yds?
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 10:27:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By a3kid:
2-3 1/2" @ 200yds?



Yes.

In other words, between 1 and 2 MOA.

I find it amazing, in a battle rifle.

BTW - this was off the sandbags, benchresting it.

You'd all know I was lyin' if I tried to claim I was shooting this offhand.

Link Posted: 12/17/2001 10:34:05 AM EST
That's what I thought you meant. Aimsurplus used to have the folding bipods that snap into the recesses in the handguards for around $12.00. They helped a bunch with the one I had. The last spring shoot we had, one of the events was 5 shots at swinging plates (4"x6") @
250yds. If I hadn't missed the third plate, I would've blown away the heavy barrelled bolt gun guys. Have you tried Hirtenberger (sp?) ammo? Really accurate, reloadable stuff. (Near the bottom of the page...)

aimsurplus.com/acatalog/AIM_Rifle_Ammunition_8.html
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 12:23:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2001 12:18:01 PM EST by SDavid]
Sounds interesting, where can I find a pic of one?

never mind I found some www.fnfal.com/falfiles/pic4.html
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 12:55:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2001 12:48:15 PM EST by ar15bubba]
......ok, I am going to say. You might be a great rifle shot, but you did not shoot groups this good at 200 yds w/ peeps on sandbags. I have seen several post like this one. I just do not believe it. Especially with Milsurp ammo and a stock trigger.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 1:21:09 PM EST
What was the barrel length and contour? Did you consider a medium or heavy barrel? Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/17/2001 1:39:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Booger:
What was the barrel length and contour? Did you consider a medium or heavy barrel? Thanks.



Garandman is shooting the DSA STG58A, not the SA58 which does have the medium or heavy contours available.

The STG58A is an Austrian STG58 kit, built on the DSA Type 1 or Type 2 upper receiver. It has two barrel lenths available, 16" for carbine, 21" for standard. No Medium or Heavy Contours are available for the STG58A rifle.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 1:50:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By ar15bubba:
......ok, I am going to say. You might be a great rifle shot, but you did not shoot groups this good at 200 yds w/ peeps on sandbags. I have seen several post like this one. I just do not believe it. Especially with Milsurp ammo and a stock trigger.



Dude, have you ever fired a FAL?
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 2:32:18 AM EST
ar15bubba,
You should really shoot a FAL before you start asking these question!!!!

I have a DSA that I can dance a 6" plate @ 300 all day long. The rifle has a plain weight barrel, not heavy. And, I haven't even installed the NM hooded rear sight yet.

The one nice thing about the Fal is that you can turn the gas system down, kind of like tayloring the rifle for the round. Another is that the stock comb is really high, allowing you to pin your check to it.

Garandman,
Welcome to the club!!!! I have had my SA58 since they first came out. When I got the rifle, I thought that it was the ugliers thing I ever saw. The rifle turned out to be one of my favorites. Now I'm thinking of installing the DSA green "X" stock set just to make it look weird and ugly!!!!!!

Also, you may want to try some Radway Green or S/A. Both seem to work well in my FAL.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 3:15:28 AM EST
Dano523:
You're right about the appearance of a FAL. If the AR15 is an "evil black rifle" designed by man, the FAL's appearance was inspired by Lucifer himself. A truly intimidating, evil black rifle before you've ever fired one. Once you have - the aura intensifies.....
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 3:45:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By ar15bubba:
......ok, I am going to say. You might be a great rifle shot, but you did not shoot groups this good at 200 yds w/ peeps on sandbags. I have seen several post like this one. I just do not believe it. Especially with Milsurp ammo and a stock trigger.



OK, you busted me. You are right, I am making the whole thing up. This past Saturday at teh range, no actually the WHOLE day is a figment of my imagination and never happened.



You want me to mail you the targets???? They are in my truck right now.

And actually, I'm NOT that good a shot.

The fact is (and I KNOW you will NEVER believe this one) that it shot as good a group as my RRA stainless match AR upper with match ammo.

Again, I have the targets to prove it.

Or, you can just choose not to believe me.

Link Posted: 12/18/2001 3:48:38 AM EST
AR15bubba,
It's alright not to believe, but you just called the man a liar. Didn't your mama teach you that's not polite?
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 5:10:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By ar15bubba:
......ok, I am going to say. You might be a great rifle shot, but you did not shoot groups this good at 200 yds w/ peeps on sandbags.
______________________________________________
Goatboy, would it be considered a personal attack if I said ar15bubba was a dumn-ass for this post ?
You just called the man a liar with nothing but your opinion for back-up.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 11:39:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/18/2001 11:33:27 AM EST by qwezxc12]

Originally Posted By a3kid:
Dano523:
You're right about the appearance of a FAL. If the AR15 is an "evil black rifle" designed by man, the FAL's appearance was inspired by Lucifer himself. A truly intimidating, evil black rifle before you've ever fired one. Once you have - the aura intensifies.....



Hee-hee. Jesus built my hotrod and Lucifer designed my FALs.hat. three times over.

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/022/7a/j0/HJ/hP10292.jpg

FAL on the top is a STG58a, type 2 upper receiver, stoll brake, DSA synth HGs, and match rear peep.

Middle is another STG with a type 2 upper, 18" crowned barrel, dressed with Izzy HB handguards, Izzy LB buttstock, ARMS mount and Trijicon Reflex II.

Bottom FAL is an Argentine Para lower and stock with Austrian STG internals, DSA type 1 upper, no carry handle, DSA shorty front end, and US made folding cocking handle, assembled and finished in MetCol III by Mark Graham at ARS.

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/001/wq/Zw/iM/i073096.jpg

Another shot of the STG with a tee-shirt I made to wear to the range
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 11:56:06 AM EST
www.dsarms.com

FAL variants have become my favorite .308 semi

I had an AR10A2 rifle & am selling my M1A,both great rifles I just prfer the FAL
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 12:01:43 PM EST
qwezxc12 -

I am wanting a para .223 FAL / FN variant.

Nice equipment you got there.

For my Stg58A, the only two mods I am lookings to do is the hooded read sight, and some trigger work.

Any suggestions????
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 12:03:49 PM EST
cnatra -

Somebody could put an eye out with those 'things.'



Link Posted: 12/18/2001 12:08:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/18/2001 12:01:45 PM EST by cnatra]

Originally Posted By garandman:
qwezxc12 -
I am wanting a para .223 FAL / FN variant.



FN FNC ?



For my Stg58A, the only two mods I am lookings to do is the hooded read sight, and some trigger work.
Any suggestions????



You might contact www.vandenbergcustom.com
He's a great guy that does quality work & has been working on FAL's for a little over a year now.
I've handeled a HB FAL he built with some trigger work & it was sweet! Nice crisp single stage trigger.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 12:11:52 PM EST
C-natra,
For some reason...I can never read past the first sentence in your posts. Those tiddies just won't allow it. You have the best sig pic on here IMO...now if it were'nt a cartoon,I'd have a woody everytime your name came up!

Remember some posters on here are [bold]NAKED[/bold]!!!!

bouncy,bouncy,bouncy,
­NAKED
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 12:21:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/18/2001 12:16:15 PM EST by qwezxc12]

Originally Posted By garandman:
...For my Stg58A, the only two mods I am lookings to do is the hooded read sight, and some trigger work.
Any suggestions????



Garandman,

I got the rear peep from DSA. It's standard belgian height and zeroed fine with the original 2-dot front site. I think it's worth it for prone iron-site shooting - it really reduces glare off the rear aperture. I may try those cross-hair reticle front sites DSA and Brownells are selling.

As far as the trigger work, when the FALFiles www.l1a1.com/cgi-bin/forums/ultimatebb.cgi ever gets up and running again (I mean the "new" board, not the old one that's running right now), check out the FAQ section and do a search. There's how-to post about cleaning up the HTS and trigger plunger with a stone and emery cloth. Be careful, though! A heavy hand when stoning fire control parts isn't a good thing.

Also there is a spring replacement list that has Wolf spring equivalents to stock FAL springs (size and # of coils, etc.) There is info about replacing the trigger return spring (IIRC) with a lighter spring to smooth the action.

I highly recommend the FALFiles to any FAL owner looking for a resource for like minded, Satan-designed MBR totin' people.

Alex

(edited 'cause I can't manage board code)
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 1:40:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By ar15bubba:
......ok, I am going to say. You might be a great rifle shot, but you did not shoot groups this good at 200 yds w/ peeps on sandbags. I have seen several post like this one. I just do not believe it. Especially with Milsurp ammo and a stock trigger.



Well, I sort of felt the way you did. Then I bought a FAL (IAI M-444) and after sighting it in, I got 1.5" groups at 100 yds. AND... that was with el-cheapo South African .308, not handloads.

FAL's are awesome! I picked up a few G-1 kits and plan on building another one this winter.

Regards,
SOL
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 1:45:58 PM EST
SOL -

welcome to the addiction - you can't have just one FAL

The Fal Files main board is still down but the backup chat board is funtional.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 2:48:17 PM EST
OK, guys, here's my toy... SAR-48. Still haven't figured out what to do with the bayonet. I can get 5 sticks into the black from 3 feet, though.

Link Posted: 12/18/2001 2:53:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By kcsturm:
welcome to the addiction - you can't have just one FAL




Yes! I'm trying to consolidate addictions down to just AR's & FAL's(for semi-rifles that is)
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 3:13:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By marvl:
OK, guys, here's my toy... SAR-48. Still haven't figured out what to do with the bayonet. I can get 5 sticks into the black from 3 feet, though.




Very, very useful for drive-by bayonetings.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 4:45:44 PM EST
I hate my FALs. They always fire. Never jam, even when I forget to clean them for months. Eat any kind of ammo I feed them. Are always on target. And worst of all, they are just TOO MUCH FUN! Ammo costs will make me broke. Lucky for me the state of Caliban says I can't have anymore if I want it to look like a real FAL, i.e. with the pistol grip.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 6:14:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By garandman:
qwezxc12 -



For my Stg58A, the only two mods I am lookings to do is the hooded read sight, and some trigger work.

Any suggestions????


Garandman,
You can do your own trigger job fairly easily. All you need to do is start clipping a little at
a time off the trigger return spring. A quarter turn at a time from the coils, until you get it
down to about 5.5 to 6 lbs. I had mine down to four pounds, but the trigger wouldn’t
reliably return forward. Had to stretch it back out a bit to restore proper return function.
It now breaks cleanly at 5.5 lbs from the middle of the trigger, & about 4.25 lbs off the
very tip end. Returns nicely every time. You might give it a whirl; most harm you can do is
ruin the spring & have to replace it. They are cheap.(er, inexpensive).
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 7:11:46 PM EST
I am looking at my post from yesterday and it seems that I am a jackass. I should probably actually shoot one of these puppies before sounding off like a jerkoff. Sorry Garandman.
Link Posted: 12/18/2001 10:29:01 PM EST
Wowie,

that took some balls to say. Ar15bubba, you get the GOLD STAR to stick on your forehead.

After all the flame wars that we see, this is almost unprecedented. You guys oughta be diplomats!

Link Posted: 12/18/2001 11:16:41 PM EST
Sorry I don't have any pictures, but I have a Caliban Legal FAL! It's quite easy to convert the Mag release spring to a screw instead and have a "non-detachable" mag. To comply just us a 10 round mag. To ease loading use DSA's Stripper Clip Top Cover. Just finished mine and will be off to the range tomorrow or the next day.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 5:49:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By ar15bubba:
I am looking at my post from yesterday and it seems that I am a jackass. I should probably actually shoot one of these puppies before sounding off like a jerkoff. Sorry Garandman.




No worries, mate.

It IS hard to believe that my FAL outshot my AR. Even for me.

Again, don't sweat it.

Go get yourself an FAL, bro!!!!!!!

Link Posted: 12/19/2001 6:26:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By ar15bubba:
I am looking at my post from yesterday and it seems that I am a jackass. I should probably actually shoot one of these puppies before sounding off like a jerkoff. Sorry Garandman.


____________________________________________
Is it Christmas or something in the water or what ???
AR15bubba my own dumb-ass comment is hereby retracted.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 6:34:35 AM EST
"ONE" thing I'll bet we can all agree on is a rifles barrel is important to accuracy.
If anyone gets bored you might head over to the Ds Arms site and check-out the barrel on "garandman's" (STG-58) FAL.

DS Arms bought all existing barrels they could find in the world and when these are gone that's it.
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