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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 10/23/2001 9:01:17 PM EDT
which one is "best"?

assuming all are the same price...
which one to get? and what are the differences?
(ive only shot one years ago, are theses pistols fairly compact? ie, anynone have the stats on dimentions?)

P7 PSP
p7 M8
P7 M13
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 9:04:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2001 8:59:29 PM EDT by brouhaha]
PSP has a European style mag release on the bottom of the mag. I don't think it has a heat shield either, so it gets hot FAST.

M8 is thin (single stack mag), 8 round cap.
Very Compact, but hard to carry as A LOT of weight is in the grip.

M10 Same as below, but in .40 w/ 10 round mags.

M13 is fat (double stack mag), 13 round cap.
Expensive mags, but you can use the M10's mags as well.

Go to www.hkpro.com for dimensions.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 9:07:09 PM EDT
Of the two models I know anything about...

The P7M8 is the cheaper of the two. I have seen them used for about $700-800 recently. Kinda hard to find though. Magazine capacity is 8 rounds, 9x19.

The P7M13 is the more expensive of the two by far. I have seen only one of these for sale, at a steep $2K. 13 round mag capacity, 9x19.

Both are gas operated autos, with scalloped chambers. Word has it if the extractor fouls up, because of the scalloping of the chamber, the round will be ejected because of gas pressure. Don't ask me about this, I've never shot one before, just drooled on them a few times.

Link Posted: 10/23/2001 9:10:48 PM EDT
BTW, I have a P7K3, which is a blowback operated P7 (instead of gas) that is chambered for .22, .32, and .380 (swappable barrel for .32 and .380, swappable slide for the .22)

These are VERY hard to find, but are incredible shooter's just like their big brothers.

If you really wanted a P7, I'd go with a M8.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 9:11:10 PM EDT
The PSP is the older design. It lacks the heat shield and uses the European mag release. The P7M8 is the same size as the PSP but has the heat shield, ambi mag release, and improved striker design. The P7M13 is a larger P7M8 verison. It has a wider grip than the M8. The cool things about the M13 mag are a good feeding design and it can hold the .40 SW round for the P7M10. I do not have the dimenisons for the pistols. For me, I got the M8 over the M13 for a couple of reasons: The smaller grip on the M8 is comfortable than the M13, The M8 mags are a bit easier to get than the M13, and the weight of the M8 made it easier to carry on the hip.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 9:13:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2001 9:09:13 PM EDT by SkaerE]
yeah, i just read that the mags for the 40cal P10 can actually be loaded with 13rnds of 9mm

strange huh?

;)

i found the stats btw...

www.hkp7.com

ALSO, one more thing,
are the PSP's worth more cause they arent made anymore? what would be a good estimate of value for each of these guns?
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 9:19:56 PM EDT
I have a P7M8 which I like a lot. It was my primary carry pistol for few years back in mid 90's. The pistol is not light but is compact and very flat. To carry concealed you'll need a good holster for it since due to the design the barrel section is very short. You will definitely need a good wide and stiff belt and well designed holster as the pistol is definitely "top" heavy when holstered and the butt has tendency to lean out. On the plus side the pistol is very accurate, totally reliable and very fast to put into action. On the negative side the pistol will only work with jacketed bullets (plated bullets like Gold Dot will not work very long), has a very unique manual and is expensive. Some people complained that the pistol gets very hot after some rapid fire but I didn't really notice it. Yes, the area above the trigger does get hot but it is not as bad as people make it sound.

I played with my friend's P7M13 for a while but didn't like it because it felt like I was holding a 2x4 and when loaded it just felt too heavy for me.

I don't shoot mine very much now but I still carry it once in a while when going "up-town".
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 9:22:52 PM EDT
why is it that the pistol is picky with ammo?
so they are accurate?

thanks again
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 9:57:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SkaerE:
why is it that the pistol is picky with ammo?
so they are accurate?

thanks again



I haven't noticed mine being picky with ammo and yes they are very accurate. I believe the accuracy has to do with the stationary barrel. I have the PSP. They'll always be worth more than the M8 because they only imported 250 of them. Here's a picture of mine.




Link Posted: 10/23/2001 10:14:02 PM EDT
how much would each kind sell for now? (assuming excellent condition)

Link Posted: 10/23/2001 10:18:46 PM EDT
I have shot the Hk's mentioned and always hated the trigger, The only hk handgun i ever owned was the vp70 and it had the worst trigger in the world...pat
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 10:30:07 PM EDT
M8=$650-$900
PSP=$950-$1250
I'm pretty sure the M10 and M13 get pricy.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 12:40:10 AM EDT
P7s are my favorite series of pistols. I compete with an M13, carry an M8, own an M10 and have owned a PSP.

Some of their best features are accuracy, reliability, speed into action, ultra fast mag changes and safety.

The fixed barrel and crisp single action trigger contribute to its accuracy. Some people complain about the short sight radius hindering real world accuracy, but I have never found it to be a problem.

Have never had a malfunction with a P7 when maintaining it properly and using them correctly. I rarely clean my competition gun and the gas piston will start to bind after about 700 rounds. This has never caused a stoppage during firing, but the slide can be difficult to retract with a very dirty piston. The only failure I have ever had was when using M10 mags in an M13. The mags look similar, but the lips and followers are different. They are fine for range use with 9mm, but I wouldn't use them for carry.

P7s can be put into action very quickly. There are no safeties to disengage or double action transition to overcome. The cocking action becomes very natural.

Mag changes are one of the best features. The M series have an ambidextrous mag release at the rear of the trigger guard and the PSPs have the heel release. I actually use my trigger finger to release mags without shifting grip on the gun. From slide lock simply insert the mag and the cocking lever acts as the slide release. I have found this to be much quicker than retracting the slide or thumbing a conventional slide release. Also the double column frames act as a natural mag well for the M10 and M13 mags' tops which taper to a single stack feed.

I also like the safety features of the P7s. Dropping the gun automatically decocks it by releasing the cocking lever. Also if anyone ever snatched the gun chances are they would not figure out how to use it before you could take action. A US Marshal friend would let other LEOs shoot his and most could not operate it before being told about the cocking lever.

Some complaints about P7s have been price, heat, and loud decocking. Refurb M8s have hit the market and offer excellent value. These can be had for a little over half the retail price of $1,200 for a new M8. The only time heat buildup bothered me was during a class firing several hundred rounds a day. During normal range use or competition they don't get uncomfortably hot. (Maybe I'm immune by now.) The pistol can be decocked silently by pressing in on the exposed area of the frame behind the trigger guard and in front of the cocking lever.

The M8 would probably be your best choice. Prices are reasonable now. Mags are relatively inexpensive. It has a heat shield not found on the PSP and I prefer the non heel mag release.

The M10 and M13 are worth considering. I am rather odd in that the larger frame fits my hands better and I prefer them over the M8. The M10s slide was beefed up to handle the .40 cartridge and it is a bit of a brick. They shoot well and with the right holster can even be carried comfortably. The M13 is my favorite. It fits my hands well, offers the thirteen rounds, and a natural mag funnel. The guns and mags can be pricey now though.

I heartily recommend getting one. Buying used would allow you to get all of your money back out of it if you decide its not to your liking.

Check out www.parkcitiestactical.com for more information. They have a very active P7 board.

Good Luck.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 12:59:13 AM EDT
is it true about the P7 series not being reliable after about 10-15,000 rnds? why do the police ditch them after 12,000? i thought these things we built like tanks

am i wrong? (also heard about a few late model P7s breaking too)
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 12:59:23 AM EDT
P7's are not gas operated.They are blow back with a gas delay system.It holds the slide closed.Also they have fluted chambers like MP5's and will eject the round even if the extracter is missing.SJR556.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 7:56:30 AM EDT
The only H&K that I have looked at have a composite slide , etc. They have a very unbalanced feel.

Ben
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 1:46:00 PM EDT
composite slide?
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 2:51:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Benjamin0001:
The only H&K that I have looked at have a composite slide , etc. They have a very unbalanced feel.

Ben



I'm trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 3:01:44 PM EDT
The PSP does get hot in the trigger guard after about 3 mags through it. However, it is a phenomenally well made and accurate gun. I have the PSP and just put a deposit on an HK P7 K3.

I would personally get another PSP because I have 8 mags for the gun already (5 need refinishing, but I got them for about $100 for all 5). The M8 is a good choice, but the M13 mags are $100+. I believe the refurbished (with the police markings milled off the slide) guns came from the New Jersey State Police.

If anyone finds a P7 M7 marked gun for sale, I would be happy to trade a nice Beta C-Mag for it.

One clarification--if you read the HKPRO website, there is a P7 and a PSP (two almost identical pistols marked differently). I think there are more than 250 of the heel release pistols in the country--so there may be 250 PSP marked guns and some more P7 marked guns. However, most people call them PSP to differentiate them from the M8.

AFARR

Link Posted: 10/24/2001 3:12:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AFARR:


If anyone finds a P7 M7 marked gun for sale, I would be happy to trade a nice Beta C-Mag for it.



I'm not sure if this is a typo or a joke. You do realize that the M7 is in .45ACP and there are only 6 in the world, right? But, that's worth a Beta, isn't it?
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 3:43:24 PM EDT

I'm not sure if this is a typo or a joke. You do realize that the M7 is in .45ACP and there are only 6 in the world, right? But, that's worth a Beta, isn't it?


TATTLETALE!!
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 3:48:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2001 3:43:06 PM EDT by yobo]
I head there was only 1 prototype M7 made. I heard it used some kind of oil piston instead of the gas piston.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 3:53:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yobo:
I head there was only 1 prototype M7 made. I heard it used some kind of oil piston instead of the gas piston.



Not true. There were 6. www.hkpro.com/p7m7.htm
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