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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 10/21/2001 6:09:09 AM EDT
Is the only difference the sear pin hole?
Where would it go precisely?
Thanks for the info
Bryan
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 6:26:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2001 6:21:03 AM EDT by Santyth]
Where would it GO?



Link Posted: 10/21/2001 6:54:41 AM EDT
The sear hole goes exactly where the sear pin needs to be to allow the sear to function properley.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 7:00:23 AM EDT
Goes through the side. Just before you go to jail.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 7:08:26 AM EDT
I ask because of future interest in legally converting, (or purchasing one converted with registered receiver) I didn't know if a DIAS needed holes also. (I assume it wouldn't be called "drop-in", it would be called "drill and drop in"

Also I wanted to know out of curiosity, I didn't ask to have 30 people respond that it is against the law, I'll pass on the FELONY
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 7:42:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By weimadogs:
I ask because of future interest in legally converting, (or purchasing one converted with registered receiver) I didn't know if a DIAS needed holes also. (I assume it wouldn't be called "drop-in", it would be called "drill and drop in"

Also I wanted to know out of curiosity, I didn't ask to have 30 people respond that it is against the law, I'll pass on the FELONY



It aint that easy..and it sure as hell aint that cheap. You need to live in a class 3 state, need a class 2/3 dealer to do the work, and need to pay tax stamp fees. Also, there are probably other things I missed.

Not trying to rip on you or anything, but when someone post a question like this as their first post we tend to get kind of nervous. We have seen it all before, and sometimes the individual is looking to do something illegal...which we will not partake in.

SGtar15
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 8:01:33 AM EDT
Try posting this in the "M-16" forum or the "Legal" forum.

Also the internal parts for the Ar15 and the M-16 are of a different breed. The hammer,bolt carrier and the issue of a sear are what differentiates an M-16 from an AR15.

Alex
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 8:08:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By weimadogs:
I ask because of future interest in legally converting, (or purchasing one converted with registered receiver) I didn't know if a DIAS needed holes also. (I assume it wouldn't be called "drop-in", it would be called "drill and drop in"

Also I wanted to know out of curiosity, I didn't ask to have 30 people respond that it is against the law, I'll pass on the FELONY



Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you couldn't legally convert an AR-15 to an M-16. Don't you need to purchase an existing legally registered M-16 that was made into an M-16 before such and such date?
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 8:51:43 AM EDT
The only LEGAL way of changing a semi auto to Full auto,Buy a REGISTERED DROP IN AUTO SEAR,If you can still find one,you can get what is called an AUTO Connector when installed gives you only full auto.Back in the 80's it cost more to register one than the actual part cost.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 8:53:12 AM EDT
If you are looking to make a full auto; you will need a jig. They sell for about $40 and it fits in the rear take down hole. Not to mention that on the inside of the reciever, the left wall will have to be milled down in order for the auto sear to fit. All this must be done by a class II manufacturer, and can only be transfered by a class III dealer to dealer. Either way its gonna cost an ass load of money. You would almost be better to buy a Pre-86 dealer sample M-16. They run about $6000 if your lucky. I guess some people forget this is America and we have the 1st Amendment.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 9:05:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By westman431:
If you are looking to make a full auto; you will need a jig. They sell for about $40 and it fits in the rear take down hole. Not to mention that on the inside of the reciever, the left wall will have to be milled down in order for the auto sear to fit. All this must be done by a class II manufacturer, and can only be transfered by a class III dealer to dealer. Either way its gonna cost an ass load of money. You would almost be better to buy a Pre-86 dealer sample M-16. They run about $6000 if your lucky. I guess some people forget this is America and we have the 1st Amendment.



Second Amendment!

Alex
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 9:47:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By weimadogs:
Is the only difference the sear pin hole?
Where would it go precisely?
Thanks for the info
Bryan




I can do you one better, Bryan!!!

I am the exclusive US distributor of prefabricated Automatic Sear Holes®!!! (Pat. Pend.) Each AS-Hole® comes individually packed in it's own poly bag, ready for immediate drop-in installation (drill not included). Within minutes of unpacking your AS-Hole® you'll be ready to add that automatic sear that you always wanted!

Only $39.95 each (plus $16.95 S&H). We accept checks or money orders made out to "California Automatic Sear Holes" (but you have to abbreviate it "CASH") and Paypal.

Canadian customers can get their AS-Hole® from our Canadian distributor - Scarecrow.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 9:53:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Steel_Rat:

Originally Posted By weimadogs:
Is the only difference the sear pin hole?
Where would it go precisely?
Thanks for the info
Bryan




I can do you one better, Bryan!!!

I am the exclusive US distributor of prefabricated Automatic Sear Holes®!!! (Pat. Pend.) Each AS-Hole® comes individually packed in it's own poly bag, ready for immediate drop-in installation (drill not included). Within minutes of unpacking your AS-Hole® you'll be ready to add that automatic sear that you always wanted!

Only $39.95 each (plus $16.95 S&H). We accept checks or money orders made out to "California Automatic Sear Holes" (but you have to abbreviate it "CASH") and Paypal.

Canadian customers can get their AS-Hole® from our Canadian distributor - Scarecrow.



I'm gonna go have a heart attack now. Thanks S.R.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 2:31:58 PM EDT
Thanks Steel Rat but I have plenty of sources for AS-Holes but could use a few Complete Undrilled Nonconforming Trigger HOLES. Do you have any leads on where I could get one? BTW, they must be PRE 1982 in order to be legal. Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 2:52:14 PM EDT
Hey-he asked an honest question. If you don't want to answer him then don't. Sarcasm has its place but a lot of you are just being pricks.
Some one new to AR15s askes a question and you guys are busting his balls already. Lighten up-you didn't always know everything did you?
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 3:36:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KLR2001:
Hey-he asked an honest question. If you don't want to answer him then don't. Sarcasm has its place but a lot of you are just being pricks.
Some one new to AR15s askes a question and you guys are busting his balls already. Lighten up-you didn't always know everything did you?




Instead of whining, why don't you answer his question? Personally, I'm a little leery of single-digit post counts who start out on AR15.com by asking how to turn semis into machine guns.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 3:40:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 3:50:01 PM EDT
Wow! All this verbiage & minimal answer. AFAIK there are three basic differences in the receivers in question. The sear hole has already been touched on. Internally, the M16 is wider in the area where the autosear goes. Third, the external markings. All this assuming the AR in question isn't a Colt's with their special non-standard features.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 3:53:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By westman431:
If you are looking to make a full auto; you will need a jig. They sell for about $40 and it fits in the rear take down hole. Not to mention that on the inside of the reciever, the left wall will have to be milled down in order for the auto sear to fit. All this must be done by a class II manufacturer, and can only be transfered by a class III dealer to dealer. Either way its gonna cost an ass load of money. You would almost be better to buy a Pre-86 dealer sample M-16. They run about $6000 if your lucky. I guess some people forget this is America and we have the 1st Amendment.



A non-SOT can't buy a pre-86 DS. He can buy a transferrable, though.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 4:00:54 PM EDT
Here we go againpg
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 4:30:11 PM EDT
Gentleman,
Chalk it up to idle curiosity, I realize it is against the law, I know the internals are different...it's everywhere on the site, I am not asking for directions on converting illegally, I simply wanted an answer like..... there would be a small hole below the take-down pin, and the receiver would have to be milled out, but a DIAS would need no holes.

I asked my question with the words I chose to get a specific answer, like "it has another hole that goes thru the receiver"

I saw a receiver at a show awhile back that looked like it had been "altered" but I didn't have the knowledge to know what it should look like, so I wanted to know, especially if owning it was illegal.

At present my sheriff won't sign, so I likely won't go FA. But if we get a new sheriff I will consider, that may alter my future purchases if there where any differences in receivers (such as the "new colt block")

I apologize if my question should go in "legal" or "m16". Seems like general discussion is as good as anywhere. I wasn't asking a legal question, it was asking for a comparison between the two receivers, obviously that means I should have placed it in the M16 forum??

I've seen Newbies get railed for asking the full-auto question, I know there are alot of freaks out there....personally I would be wiser than to be that rude to someone who you don't know, and that because of lack of clarity in a question you perceive to be asking how to make a illegal machine gun!

Perhaps mailbomb.com would be a good place to rudely flame a few folks also.

Thanks for the info from those who shared,
Yes, I am somewhat unknowledgable about the placement of a registered DIAS vs.a USGI M16 sear, I will go study the parts diagram, but I tried to find the information without asking and had no luck, perhaps I should choose my words more carefully, I didn't realize folks where so edgy.



Link Posted: 10/21/2001 4:38:27 PM EDT
there not edgy, there paranoid.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 5:03:06 PM EDT
weimadogs

The reason noone answered your question is they just plain don't know.

They think that by making you look dumb it makes them look smart.

You can buy jigs and and plans out of Shot Gun News. (www.shotgunnews.com)
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 5:38:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Halfcocked:

The reason noone answered your question is they just plain don't know.

They think that by making you look dumb it makes them look smart.





Sorry, Halfcocked, but you're totally wrong here. I happen to know exactly the size of the automatic sear hole and precisely how far it sits above the selector (not below the take-down pin as weimadog described). And if I ever forget I can pull an M16 and an AR-15 out of my safe and look at them.

Granted, I did have a little fun with weimadogs, but it's only because it seems every newbie's Post Number One on this board is a question on the difference between a semi and full auto.

And while it may be in some small part paranoia, unfortunately the ATF has actually prosecuted people in the past for conspiracy by handing out this type of info when you had a reasonable knowlege that the person was going to use it to break the law. This advice comes from an ex-US DOJ prosecutor who's private practice is almost exclusively Title II cases. (And he happens to be in weimadogs home state.) He's told me stories of guys selling parts and books at gun shows, having ATF plants ask what they needed to convert a gun, then getting arrested after they explains exactly what parts you need, where to drill the hole, etc. Yes, it is a crime to instruct someone on how to break the law.

The truth is guns are not very complicated and all the information anyone is looking for is freely available from many, many sources, including the documents section of this board. So there's no reason to spoonfeed this data to a newbie who refuses to spend even 10 minutes searching for it.

And that's why we had fun with weimadogs - if he wants serious answers then he'll have to do his homework first.

So, Halfcocked - we look smart because we are smarter than you. And we do know the answers, but we don't hand them out to everyone who asks but is unwilling to do a little research first.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 5:58:36 PM EDT
We see this type of post quite often on the "Full Auto" Board, to make a long story short......and as was pointed out, this type of question can get AR15.com in trouble !!!

If you are serious about wanting to LEGALLY own Title II weapons (machine guns), drop over to the Full Auto section and we WILL help you, there are other options than the Sheriffs Signature.

Gunrunner
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 6:12:28 PM EDT
I know something I won't tell, I won't tell, I won't tell



Link Posted: 10/21/2001 6:41:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2001 7:00:01 PM EDT by Halfcocked]
So...

All you guys are just trying to save this poor soul from himself?

Get a life.

There IS A 1ST AMENDMENT!

No less, no more than the 2nd.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 7:08:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By westman431:

snip

Either way its gonna cost an ass load of money. You would almost be better to buy a Pre-86 dealer sample M-16. They run about $6000 if your lucky. I guess some people forget this is America and we have the 1st Amendment.



Actually, there aren't any pre dealer sample M-16s since they were all made in the US and didn't have to conform to the '68 "sporting purposes" bullshit, like MP5s, UZIs and other imports. You can find a transferrable Colt factory M16 for less than $6000 or a converted semi in the $4000 range. Collectables can run up to $10,000 and beyond, but I shoot all of my stuff so those don't even factor in to my decisions....

Michael
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 10:58:04 PM EDT
Actually there is a whole class of M16 pre-samples. The 68 GCA banned importation of machine guns. Any M-16 exported from the US to another country then re-imported between 68 and 86 would be Pre86 imported dealer samples only.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:41:56 AM EDT
$4000, $6000 either way its an ass load of cash. I'm just trying to send the guy in the right direction. If he wants to make felony weapons charges against himself then so be it.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 2:24:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 2:18:59 PM EDT by Gunrunner]
As to the First Amendment.......AR15.com is a PRIVATE board and as such you must abide by the rules. One of the rules: DO NOT DISCUSS HOW TO DO AN ILLEGAL CONVERSION !!!!

Gunrunner
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 2:36:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Actually there is a whole class of M16 pre-samples. The 68 GCA banned importation of machine guns. Any M-16 exported from the US to another country then re-imported between 68 and 86 would be Pre86 imported dealer samples only.



Where are these guns at then? I don't think I have ever seen a pre ds M16 for sale. What do they go for? I'll be getting my FFL and SOT soon and this sounds like a great way to get a keeper Colt M16 at a decent price.

You are right though, I forgot about the reimportation thingy.

Michael
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 8:39:33 AM EDT
Gunrunner,

Where does it say that?

It says, "In your use of these forums, you agree that you will not post any information which is vulgar, harassing, hateful, threatening, invading of others privacy, sexually oriented, or violates any laws".

"This is how you make a full auto M-16", is not illegal.

"Go ahead Joe, make a full auto M-16, I encourage you to, here's how", is illegal.
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 9:01:58 AM EDT
HUH... HUUUH... HUUUH....., SteelRat say's he packs AS®Holes. HUUUUUH......HUUUH...HUUUH
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 9:39:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2001 9:50:36 AM EDT by Quarterbore]

Originally Posted By weimadogs:

I saw a receiver at a show awhile back that looked like it had been "altered" but I didn't have the knowledge to know what it should look like, so I wanted to know, especially if owning it was illegal.



Yes, the presence of an Auto Sear hole makes the lower a Machine Gun in the eyes of the ATF! If it is not registered on an ATF Form 3 or Form 4, YOU CAN NOT OWN IT!


At present my sheriff won't sign, so I likely won't go FA. But if we get a new sheriff I will consider, that may alter my future purchases if there where any differences in receivers (such as the "new colt block")


Why go to the Sheriff then? There are many other choices.... choose another person in your locality. Also, don't worry about which AR-15 to buy, simply decide that you want to go NFA and find a Legal M-16 and buy it and find a local official to sign that it is legal where you live!



... I was asking for a comparison between the two receivers


I have a picture that might help....

briefcase.yahoo.com/quarterbore

Look in "AR-15 and M-16s" folder
Look at "AR & M-16 internals" picture
Look at "AR15 converted to m16" picture
Look at "action1" picture

Those three pictures should make the operation understandable!

There are plenty of books and places for the information you are looking for. As a legal owner of an M-16 there is no way in hell I am willing to tell you how to convert an AR-15 to an M-16 and I strongly recommend that you keep in mind that 10-years and a shit load of fines is way to expensive to convert a semi-auto to full auto when you consider that you would never be able to take the converted weapon out to shoot!

Oh yea, there are a ton of other pictures on that page... look around! Based on your question I recommend thatyou learn more about both the AR-15 and M-16 before you do anything stupid that lands you in jail!

Just spend the $5,000 and buy a legal one! Pay your TAXES, stay out of jail... plus be able to enjoy the gun!

Another great sight....

www.subguns.com

Just don't ask the same question there as you will not get any different answers there!
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 11:21:40 AM EDT
I pocketed a bunch of auto sear pin holes last time I visited an Army base (on Official Government Business). I figured since they have no mass and aren't serialized nobody would miss a handful of them.

I can mail one to anyone who needs one.
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