I had recently asked a couple of questions about AR10 reloading and PSA's lack of AR10 products on their website lately.

I went with a new GII.  I looked one over at the gun show a couple weeks ago and was amazed at how light it was and how good it felt to pick up/handle.  I did some on line research (prices, availability, options/accessories for it, etc.) and ordered one.

I've got some Magpul mags. for it, a Magpul sling, a Primary Arms 1X6 ACSS scope/mount on it.  I've ordered a YHM key mod free float tube for it (have one on my wife's AR15 and I like the way it feels) and that should be here next week (and a couple more PMags).

Haven't got to shoot it yet.  Looking forward to that.   I did laser bore sight it a couple days ago but that may only help me get on the paper faster.

Here's a couple of pictures.

Nice! Hard to go wrong with the GII, she has a great reputation. Had it been out, when I bought my MP-10, I might have one instead of the MP-10.

She should server you well.

Nice gat.  Are you going to shoot NTCH w/ a light .308"?

Nice rifle.  Not sure if that primary arms scope will hold up to the recoil though.

I hope it can stand up to the recoil, too.  I hadn't heard anything about recoil issues with the rifle or the scope.  I guess we'll see.

I plan to sight it in/break it in with some SA surplus I've been saving for several years.  My M1A doesn't like it, so now I've got something to shoot it in.

Then, when I get some of my .308 brass cleaned/resized and ready I'll do some reloading for it so see what I can come up with.  I need to remember to take some of my IMR4895/150 grn. FMJBT reloads to the range, too, to find out where the M1A ammo stacks up to the stuff I load for the GII.

Pretty sure it can, the reticle is designed for .223 and .308

Please post an accuracy update.  I would dearly love to see what kind of groups you get with this rifle.

A GII is on my list. DPMS did a great job with it.

That doesnt mean that the recoil wont knock something loose internally.  AR10s are known to be hard on scopes.

YES!!!  Nice rifle.  They are growing on me.  I've always been more drawn to the M1A, but I see the benefits of the AR10.  I've never shot one yet.

Well had a half assed range afternoon.

Took the GII and some SA surplus to the range.  Sighted in the scope at 25 yds. (man it was way high off the paper - due to me trying to use a laser bore sighter prior to going to the range possibly).  Removed the scope and sighted in the magpul back up sights.  Then I put the scope back on it and walked over to the 100 yd. range.

It was high and right at 100 yds. (didn't understand why it was off to the right as it was "on" at 25 yds.).  Got it sighted in at 100 yds. (screwed up, didn't take the spotting scope or a 10X pair of binoculars, so it was hard to see the holes in the target, had to get the binoculars I had and the angle/light on the target just right).

Plan was to head back to the 25 yd. range and see where it hit at after sighting it in at 100 yds.

I'll say I wasn't really happy with the groups as they were running 2 to 3 inches for 3 shots.  But it was SA surplus and it's hard for me to use a round dot scope on a round dot target.  I finally adjusted the power to down around 5 to 6 so as to have a small amount of "white" between the inside of the big horseshoe/circle and the target circle, that seemed to help me steady it better.

Then, just as I was finishing at 100 yds. and getting ready to go back to the 25 yd. range I decided to flip the scope lens covers shut - and the darn scoped moved backwards one inch in rings.

I was pretty certain I'd tightened every screw properly.  I tried to make sure the gaps were even on both sides of the rings and snugged the screws down pretty good, I thought.

I just loaded up and left.  Didn't realize I'd forgot my 25 yd. targets till I was home.

Three good things:
1.  I got to shoot the new GII
2.  I got the iron sights sighted in
3.  Not a single hiccup.  100% reliable, with SA surplus, and the five rounds of old 150 grain/IMR4895 hunting ammo my son used in his M1A 3 or 4 years ago to take his first deer.

I'll clean it later tonight, or in the morning.  And tighten up the rings, again (?)

The scope's finish is scuffed up under the rings, so it must have been sliding back and forth while I was shooting it. All the adjusting I'd done at 25 yds., the adjusting I did at 100, opening the lens covers and then closing them at 25 yds. and opening them at 100 yds. and I never saw the scope move till I closed the front lens cover at the 100 yd. range.

I've got one in 243 love it.

I would think even with a properly seated scope and  mount, 2.5-3" groups from SA surplus would be real good.  I think it means you're doing something right.   Although I did see they were 3 round groups.

Grew up shooting 3 round groups.  One shot, meat in the pot.  Two shots, maybe.  Three shots, seldom.  If you can't kill that deer with 3 shots, you probably won't.  I know, in other situations a rifle might be shot more that three shots and for some rifles getting the barrel hot screws up the group.  I hope this one won't be like that but I'll find out.  I've got no use for a rifle that opens up when it gets a little hot.

Anyway, I've had two more range sessions since that first one.  Not a single malfunction yet.  I'm into my second battle pack now.  

The only concern I've had so far is the on the second cleaning session I noticed a burr on the side of the bolt cam pin right at the edge of the hole.  It had a metal sliver peeled up that would poke/cut your finger if you weren't careful.  I took a file and knocked the burr off and then smoothed it out.  We'll see if it comes back.  I couldn't tell (wasn't looking when I pulled it out and dropped it on the old towel) if the burr was on the front side (towards the barrel) or back side of the pin.  Something must be smacking it pretty hard.

Adjustable gas block?

No, not yet.  Been looking at them.  Have a YHM free float tube to put on it but need to get the flash suppressor off first.

Finally got the YHM tube on it.  Pain in the butt getting the DPMS stuff off it though.

I put some of this in another thread about the GII someone else started.  In short, here's where I'm at and the mess so far.

The gas block screws where glued in with rock set.  Got them loose fairly easily.

Knicked gouged the hell out of the back end of the factory quad rail and jamb nut due to them putting rockset on the threads of those, too.  Why rockset a quad rail with a jamb nut??

Got the barrel nut off, too.  No jamb nut but my barrel nut wrench broke up the area of the nut with the holes in it for the pins on the wrench to fit into.  Had to reposition the wrench several times.  The quad rail would come off over the gas cylinder and the flash suppressor easily.

The YHM free float tube had different threads on it that the DMPS barrel nut so the barrel nut had to come off.

Could not get the flash suppressor off.  Tried a big wrench, no go.  Ordered the AAC tool that fits the slotted flash suppressor on the Recon model.   It came in.  Tried the Snap on 3/8" drive impact wrench, no movement of the flash suppressor.  Got out the 1/2" air impact wrench (250 lb/ft of torque) and just turned the barrel in the leather straps in the big bench vise.  Could not get the bench vise tight enough to hold the barrel.  I even put a heat gun on the flash suppressor while hammering it with the SnapOn impact wrench.  No go.

Ordered a barrel vise block set.  It came in today.  Went to the garage and clamped the barrel into the barrel blocks (aluminum with rubber inserts) and put a big wrench on the end of the AAC flash suppressor tool.  The wrench would not break it loose.  I'm a big guy and I was leaning on the wrench pretty good.  Putting some weight on it.  Got a 3/8" ratchet and put a bigger wrench on the back of it for more leverage and turned the barrel in the barrel vise block.  Leaned on the vise tightening handle and tried again.  Barrel turned in the vise block again.  Leaned (starting to get scared about breaking something) on the vise tightening handle again.  Then I leaned on the wrench on the ratchet and didn't budge it.  Got pissed.  Decided to break it or whatever and buy a new barrel/have one made if something broke.  BANG!! the flash suppressor popped loose and it was so loud I thought I broke the barrel at the threads.  I kept turning and nothing fell off and eventually I could turn the flash suppressor by hand and got it off.



Sure enough.  They used rockset on the dang flash suppressor, too.  I hope someone gets some rock set stuffed up their butt.

Got my new YHM barrel nut on (no rockset used), got it all lined up and put the gas block/gas tube on and tightened down the gas block set screws (no rockset used).  Then I put the YHM free float tube on, lined it up and tightened up the jamb nut (no rockset used).  I put the front sight on the new tube and temporarily put the scope/mount on it.  I need to remove some more metal off the front bottom of the scope mount as it contacts the top rail if I mount it as far forward as I want to get my nose on the charging handle and have the scope where it needs to be from my eye.  The one inch hobby band sander will do that just fine.

Then I screwed the flash suppressor back on the barrel.  I'll need to go back out to the garage tomorrow and clamp it back and get the AAC tool and Snap On impact wrench for that.  No rockset will be used.

Here's a picture of it.  Only thing left now is waiting on the adjustable gas block that's on back order from Midway.  Then I'll have to figure out how to adjust it back under the free float tube.  I ordered an A1 stock, a rifle buffer tube and rifle buffer spring for it awhile back and replaced the factory adjustable stock.  For some reason, those A1 stocks fit me really well.  I used the factory buffer as the bolt is too long to use a rifle buffer.  We'll see how it works out.  I have a couple H2 buffers but I don't know how they compare (weight wise) to the GII buffer.  It looks like a standard carbine buffer but looks can be deceiving.

Gen II? AFAIK, 243 is only in Gen I. I had one. Sold it due to being heavier than a pig. Was nice though.

Is that right?

I've not heard/read this "one" before. Please elaborate.

You may have an issue here.  The buffer and tube are a specific length to keep the gas key from hitting the rear of the lower receiver in full recoil.  If you have a shorter buffer than needed, or a longer buffer tube w/ the stock buffer, that gas key can ultimately crack your lower @ the buffer tube ring if it doesn't just shear the gas key bolts.

I don't know all the ins and outs of .308" AR length buffers, except that they tend to not be standard AR bits.

Thanks for asking that question.  I hadn't thought of that.

The GII bolt (and maybe others) is longer than an AR15 bolt.  The stock buffer tube and buffer "look" like AR15 carbine pieces, but my not be exactly the same length.  I'll have to do some measuring.  

The standard AR15 rifle buffer is too long (maybe a 1/2 or so) for the length of the GII bolt and it bottoms out before the bolt gets back far enough to lock back on an empty magazine.

It appears some GII's are made with fixed stocks but I don't know what the internals are on those factory supplied fixed stocks.

Again, thanks for asking that question and giving me something more to check out prior to shooting it (hopefully this week).

Sure enough, the bolt would come back too far with the carbine buffer installed.

Anyone every shorten a rifle buffer?  I'm wondering if I can drive out the roll pin, remove the polymer "bumper" and shorten the buffer, then drill a new roll pin hole, reinstall the polymer bumper and pin?  Just curious if anyone else has done that.

You can either use spacers (quarters) in the rear of the buffer tube, or try an A5 buffer.  This is a common issue w/ .308" ARs, and the G2 platform changes all the dimensions again.

Semi autos have two impulses transferred through the scope bases and rings to the scope. One is backwards while the bullet goes down the barrel and then gets more powerful due the muzzle blast after the bullet leaves. The second one is when the bolt slams into battery chambering the next round; this one's less forceful than the first one.  More economical scopes may not hold up well or be built to withstand that second impulse.  Lightweight semi autos like the GEN 2 are even more susceptible to this.

Got the new adjustable gas block (Superlative Arms) in the mail yesterday and decided to install it this morning.

Got the flash suppressor off again, unscrewed the free float tube and got the set screws loose in the original gas block and pulled it off.

Then I drove out the roll pin.

Guess what?  I could not get the gas tube out of the gas block.  I pulled.  I yanked.  I twisted.  I did not grab it with pliers or vice grips because I wanted to reuse it with the new gas block.

Gave up finally.  Based on all the rock set someone at DPMS believes is needed along with set screws, jam nuts, etc. I'll bet that person put rock set on the gas tube before sticking it in the gas block.  I've got it soaking in a glass of water over night and I'll try again in the morning.

I sat down to order a new gas tube when I remembered I'd just seen one a few days ago in the spare parts drawer in the garage.  Also a mid-length tube (left over from previous builds with double ordered parts) I got it and did some measuring/figuring and put it in the gas block.  The back screw on the Superlative Arms adjustable gas block lined up perfect with the indention in the barrel while the front screw was too far forward to hit the front indention from the original gas block.  I tightened the front screw down (after the rear screw locked the new gas block in place).  I used that mark to make a new dent with a center punch and then drilled a small indention for the new gas block front set screw (shallower than the original one, but enough to help lock it in place).

Got the gas block on, the free float tube back on and the flash suppressor on and now I should be ready to go to the range.

About time, too.

Wow.... you have "ripped and tore" on this new rifle.

It will be interesting to hear and see the final results.

I wish you the absolute best with your changes to the original rifle.  Please take no offense that I hope it never ends up in the "used" rifle section at a local gun store.  DPMS might get a bad rap on this one if it does.  

Again, no offense meant.

Let us know in the end the accuracy and reliability of your newly created rifle.

I don't sell/trade off guns.  I still have my Glock (inaccurate), my XDMs (just never did feel good about them), my M&Ps (not reliable), my Win M190 (not accurate) and several other guns that just aren't up to my standard.

This GII will get some range time and then go in the gun safe (most likely) as a .308 caliber back up for my M1A (which works, but isn't as accurate as I'd like, so it's in the safe, too - I have a CMP M1 Garand that makes the M1A look bad when it comes to group size).

One of the neat things about ARs is being able to buy and install different "accessories" to make the rifle more to your liking.  Since DPMS "glues" so many parts on with rock set that sort of "kills the mood" if you're the type of person who wants to make a rifle fit your needs better.  So far it's been reliable.  And now if fits me.  It was just a lot of aggravation getting it there.

I get it, and you are the guy we rely on on when we want to figure out how to do something.

I appreciate your confidence and determination.

Good luck and let us know how it shoots.

I just work on my own stuff.

I figured others with GII's, or who might be buying a GII in the future would benefit from information about how they are put together if they decide to mod their rifles.

That's all.

If something has rocksett generally soaking it in water loosens it up just an FYI

Yeah, I would have had to set the whole rifle down in the tub to soak it as they used rock set on the threads for the quad rail and jam nut on the barrel nut.   It's a good think they didn't put rock set on the barrel nut threads (I don't know how they missed that)
I had to let the gas plug and gas tube sit in a glass of water for 3 days and still had to use a pair of pliers to twist/pull the gas tube out of the block.

All the rock set is gone now (along with the factory quad rail/jam nut/barrel nut and the gas block and gas tube), just got to get it to the range and sight it in again.

Are they still having problems with the bolt catch being damaged?

I sure hope not, but I'll keep an eye on it.

Since many of the parts are standard AR15/M16 parts, do you know if the bolt catch is the same (for easy access to a replacement if/when needed?

Thanks.

Finally got to the range yesterday with the GII.  Again 100% reliable with SA surplus.

My first effort was adjusting the new Superlative Arms gas block.  I had the instructions with me (and the big long allen wrench).  I first closed it by screwing the adjustment screw in till it stopped turning.  Then I screwed it out to the full open position of 4.5 turns.  Then I started with the "insert a magazine with 1 round in it and fire the gun, if the bolt locks back repeat after turning the screw out 1/2 turn.  I ran through a box of ammo with the bolt continuing to lock back after each round.  When I started on the second box of ammo I started turning it out 1 full turn after each time the bolt locked back.  I gave up after 3 full turns as I do not know how long the adjustment screw it and didn't want to launch it down range if I got too close to the end of it's travel (don't know if it would/could and didn't want to find out.)  I do believe the recoil was reduced vs. the initial starting point of 4.5 turns but can't prove it by "feel".

Loaded another magazine and started/finished sighting the rifle in at 25 yds. and headed to the 100 yd. range but it was packed and we didn't want to stand around waiting so we packed up and headed home.

It still works, with the M16A1 butt stock, the YHM free float tube on it and the SA adjustable gas block.  Once I get caught up on some other reloading chores I'll start on some load development for this rifle.

In for the 100yard target with 5-10 shot, shot groups.

Just cleaned it.

Couple of observations.

First is that compared to my AR15's it was much cleaner inside and therefore easier to clean.  Thirty to forty rounds through an AR15 gets them pretty darn dirty, carbon burnt to the bolt tail, interior of the receiver had carbon buildup (light, but you can see it on a patch).  The GII had no carbon burnt to the bolt tail, the bolt wiped off quick and easy, the interior of the upper was almost clean judging by the light color of the oil I wiped off of it.

Second is the firing pin finish is getting pretty scuffed up where it moves back and forth inside the cam pin.  No marks at all on the hole or entrance to the hole in the cam pin.  No wear visible there.

I was going to check/confirm the turns out from full closed on the Superlative Arms gas block adjustment screw.  Couldn't do it.  I stuck that big long allen wrench in the adjustment screw and started to turn it listening for clicks and got no clicks.  I grabbed a flashlight and shined it through the hole in the YHM free float tube at the adjustment screw and saw it was turned out past where the ratcheting pawl contacts the notched shaft of the adjustment screw.  I don't know if I turned it out to far or I stopped so close to the end that continued firing (while sighting it in) bumped it another click or three open/past the notches.

I went ahead and ran it back down to full closed and then back out 12 full turns.  I went past 12 full turns yesterday and it was still locking the bolt back.  I'll leave it at 12 full turns, shoot it next time and then re-check to see if it's moving on it's own (can't hardly believe it is as the clicks are audible (in the kitchen and you can feel them through the allen wrench if you go slow when turning the wrench).

I wonder if running the gas block "vented" reduced the gas blowing back into the bolt/receiver enough to make the difference in cleaning vs. the AR15's?  I may have to run the screw back to 4.5 turns one range trip just to see if there is a difference in bolt and upper receiver crud build up vs. setting the adjustment screw up so it vents excess gas.