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Posted: 8/20/2015 3:36:21 PM EDT
[#1]
This thread may need to be moved to the Handgun section under CARRY ISSUES.
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Posted: 8/20/2015 5:27:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Not at all
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Posted: 8/20/2015 6:12:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Not consistently, but I have. I carried it often before I carried a gun though.
Cheers! -JC |
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Posted: 8/20/2015 6:32:58 PM EDT
[#4]
I carry pepper everyday, it's important to have a less than lethal option for those times when shooting someone isn't warranted. It's another tool in the bucket so to speak. If someone's in my face threatening me or touches me, but doesn't present as a lethal threat or a threat to do serious bodily harm, they're getting the spray. Now if they present a deadly weapon, or some other serious threat that's a different matter. Self preservation, or security should include a multi layer approach just as any other security. The more layers you have the better!!!
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Posted: 8/20/2015 6:35:13 PM EDT
[#5]
Yes.
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Posted: 8/20/2015 7:05:14 PM EDT
[#6]
No.
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Posted: 8/20/2015 7:39:36 PM EDT
[#7]
I have one of those kimber pepper blaster things in my center console, I figure its not a terrible idea to have a second choice and since it is powder activated I feel less worried with the heat that FL cars can get up to.
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Posted: 8/20/2015 10:44:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I carry pepper everyday, it's important to have a less than lethal option for those times when shooting someone isn't warranted. It's another tool in the bucket so to speak. If someone's in my face threatening me or touches me, but doesn't present as a lethal threat or a threat to do serious bodily harm, they're getting the spray. Now if they present a deadly weapon, or some other serious threat that's a different matter. Self preservation, or security should include a multi layer approach just as any other security. The more layers you have the better!!! +1 |
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Posted: 8/20/2015 10:47:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote Historythat's lethal. If you stab someone it is the same as you shooting them. |
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Posted: 8/21/2015 7:41:23 AM EDT
[#10]
No because you should only deploy less lethal if you have lethal back up with you. You can't transition fast enough from less lethal to lethal.
A buddy who was a LEO stated that the policy was tasers etc could only be deployed if there was lethal back up present. I don't want pepper spray or taser to fail and then be dealing with a really pissed assailant. |
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Posted: 8/21/2015 1:03:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Baked beans + garlic + hot peppers .........................
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Posted: 8/21/2015 2:01:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't want pepper spray or taser to fail and then be dealing with a really pissed assailant. I also don't want the spray to compromise my vision an breathing in a fight. Every time I've used that stuff (in training) or been near when it's sprayed I'm negatively affected. Oh yeah, the knife is absolutely a deadly weapon. There is no use of a knife as a weapon where it would be considered "less lethal". Cheers! -JC |
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Posted: 8/21/2015 2:14:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I carry pepper everyday, it's important to have a less than lethal option for those times when shooting someone isn't warranted. It's another tool in the bucket so to speak. If someone's in my face threatening me or touches me, but doesn't present as a lethal threat or a threat to do serious bodily harm, they're getting the spray. Now if they present a deadly weapon, or some other serious threat that's a different matter. Self preservation, or security should include a multi layer approach just as any other security. The more layers you have the better!!! This above is my mind set. What type of pepper spray do y'all consider the best? I really like the form and function of the Kimber Pepper Blaster 2. The story behind my initial question. Last Sunday had a stranger come into our church 3/4s of the way thru. (We Welcome strangers by the way) Long story short he went back out side after siting inside for less than 3 min, and something did not feel right about the situation, he kept pacing back and forth outside the church, I could see him thru the stain-glass windows. I went out side to see what he was doing. His tire was gone on his car and he had been driving on the rim for miles. He turned up being a mental subject I helped him change his tire after I contacted local SO to come check him out. Everything ended up playing out ok but just looking back on the situation I wished I had a less lethal option on me. I was not armed by the way, G26 was in the car.Here in GA you can carry in a church with the permission of the preacher. Working on that issue now, shouldn't be a problem My pastor actually thought I carried a gun with me in church already. |
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Posted: 8/21/2015 5:44:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that's lethal. If you stab someone it is the same as you shooting them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
that's lethal. If you stab someone it is the same as you shooting them. This. I was not considering a knife "less lethal" when I posted... |
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Posted: 8/21/2015 6:51:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Fists
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Posted: 8/22/2015 1:07:52 AM EDT
[#16]
Yes. OC spray and beat feet.
I do not recommend tasers or batons. They are more useful as compliance tools IMO. |
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Posted: 8/22/2015 1:11:03 AM EDT
[#17]
I bought my wife and I the Kimber Pepperblaster. Of course I have no first hand experience with it yet but I really enjoy having that non lethal option when the particular situation isn't life threatening but you'd want to be able to get out of it. Also it allows me to carry something in a business that otherwise tells people they can't carry guns
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Posted: 8/22/2015 1:49:58 AM EDT
[#18]
Many years of martial arts training and a surefire flashlight that I have used twice to get out of trouble by shining it in an aggressor's face and once to strike a guy that was not detered by the light and ended up getting me into a choke hold.
I don't have much faith in any other less lethals except maybe a flat sap and I have not found an easy way to carry one of those. |
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Posted: 8/22/2015 3:45:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Anyone carry less lethal in conjunction with CCW? Thinking of getting some pepper spray like the Kimber 2. Any experience or suggestions? Surefire with a strike bezel is my carry weapon when I cant have a firearm. On occasion, if going out late I'll bring it along in place of a spare magazine if I have a double stack gun. |
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Posted: 8/22/2015 4:16:06 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many years of martial arts training and a surefire flashlight that I have used twice to get out of trouble by shining it in an aggressor's face and once to strike a guy that was not detered by the light and ended up getting me into a choke hold. I don't have much faith in any other less lethals except maybe a flat sap and I have not found an easy way to carry one of those. Would you consider this to be an option? Sap Cap |
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Posted: 8/22/2015 5:42:19 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Many years of martial arts training and a surefire flashlight that I have used twice to get out of trouble by shining it in an aggressor's face and once to strike a guy that was not detered by the light and ended up getting me into a choke hold. I don't have much faith in any other less lethals except maybe a flat sap and I have not found an easy way to carry one of those. Would you consider this to be an option? Sap Cap To hard to use in a fucked up tangle. This is much more flexible. Quoted:
Quoted:
Anyone carry less lethal in conjunction with CCW? Thinking of getting some pepper spray like the Kimber 2. Any experience or suggestions? Surefire with a strike bezel is my carry weapon when I cant have a firearm. On occasion, if going out late I'll bring it along in place of a spare magazine if I have a double stack gun. Very bad idea. The fight where I used the flashlight as an impact weapon (Stream Light TL-1) I was working as a security guard and had just ejected a tresspasser. A couple minutes later the guy came running up and punched me in the face. I tried to flash him to get him to turn away (he was drunk and had dilated pupils). That did not work at all and he kept hitting me. I punched him twice with my left hand (without the light in it) and he fell down. I was afraid he would get back up and keep fighting or draw a weapon so I jumped on top of him to hold him down. I had the guy in side control and he somehow got a collar choke on me. As I was starting to black out I hit him a couple times in the head with my light that I still had in my hand from trying to dissuade him with by flashing him. All that did was make him wrap my arms in a double underhook and roll me over like a baby. I kept striking with the flashlight from the bottom to keep him from ground and pounding me and eventually got a half ass kimura on the guy just as the cops rolled up. Hitting someone with a flashlight is not a fight ender unless it is one of those big old style D cell maglights. It did make the guy BLEED like hell though. Of course since he immediately got on top of me all the blood ended up on me and in my face/mouth. The cops that responded knew the guy since he has a history of getting really drunk and attacking people, and they STRONGLY hinted I go to the ER and get tested. So far so good on that one. The final blood test is next week. |
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Posted: 8/22/2015 8:02:02 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To hard to use in a fucked up tangle. This is much more flexible. Very bad idea. The fight where I used the flashlight as an impact weapon (Stream Light TL-1) I was working as a security guard and had just ejected a tresspasser. A couple minutes later the guy came running up and punched me in the face. I tried to flash him to get him to turn away (he was drunk and had dilated pupils). That did not work at all and he kept hitting me. I punched him twice with my left hand (without the light in it) and he fell down. I was afraid he would get back up and keep fighting or draw a weapon so I jumped on top of him to hold him down. I had the guy in side control and he somehow got a collar choke on me. As I was starting to black out I hit him a couple times in the head with my light that I still had in my hand from trying to dissuade him with by flashing him. All that did was make him wrap my arms in a double underhook and roll me over like a baby. I kept striking with the flashlight from the bottom to keep him from ground and pounding me and eventually got a half ass kimura on the guy just as the cops rolled up. Hitting someone with a flashlight is not a fight ender unless it is one of those big old style D cell maglights. It did make the guy BLEED like hell though. Of course since he immediately got on top of me all the blood ended up on me and in my face/mouth. The cops that responded knew the guy since he has a history of getting really drunk and attacking people, and they STRONGLY hinted I go to the ER and get tested. So far so good on that one. The final blood test is next week. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Many years of martial arts training and a surefire flashlight that I have used twice to get out of trouble by shining it in an aggressor's face and once to strike a guy that was not detered by the light and ended up getting me into a choke hold. I don't have much faith in any other less lethals except maybe a flat sap and I have not found an easy way to carry one of those. Would you consider this to be an option? Sap Cap To hard to use in a fucked up tangle. This is much more flexible. Quoted:
Quoted:
Anyone carry less lethal in conjunction with CCW? Thinking of getting some pepper spray like the Kimber 2. Any experience or suggestions? Surefire with a strike bezel is my carry weapon when I cant have a firearm. On occasion, if going out late I'll bring it along in place of a spare magazine if I have a double stack gun. Very bad idea. The fight where I used the flashlight as an impact weapon (Stream Light TL-1) I was working as a security guard and had just ejected a tresspasser. A couple minutes later the guy came running up and punched me in the face. I tried to flash him to get him to turn away (he was drunk and had dilated pupils). That did not work at all and he kept hitting me. I punched him twice with my left hand (without the light in it) and he fell down. I was afraid he would get back up and keep fighting or draw a weapon so I jumped on top of him to hold him down. I had the guy in side control and he somehow got a collar choke on me. As I was starting to black out I hit him a couple times in the head with my light that I still had in my hand from trying to dissuade him with by flashing him. All that did was make him wrap my arms in a double underhook and roll me over like a baby. I kept striking with the flashlight from the bottom to keep him from ground and pounding me and eventually got a half ass kimura on the guy just as the cops rolled up. Hitting someone with a flashlight is not a fight ender unless it is one of those big old style D cell maglights. It did make the guy BLEED like hell though. Of course since he immediately got on top of me all the blood ended up on me and in my face/mouth. The cops that responded knew the guy since he has a history of getting really drunk and attacking people, and they STRONGLY hinted I go to the ER and get tested. So far so good on that one. The final blood test is next week. Eyes throat temple and base of the skull. Its a bad idea to use a strike bezel (light impact cutting) flashlight or any weapon for that matter on something it cant destroy. Right tools for the job, etc. |
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Posted: 8/22/2015 8:22:01 AM EDT
[#23]
I carry a knife, but only as a LAST resort. I'm not trained in blade fighting, and would probably fare poorly if I pulled a knife out before I pulled my gun out. EDIT - As pointed out above, a knife is not a less-lethal option.
I have carried a Taser, along with my carry gun, but that presents some ergonomic issues. When it comes to dealing with potential threats, 99% of the time I'm relying on situational awareness and good decision-making. |
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Posted: 8/22/2015 8:27:24 AM EDT
[#24]
When I am not able to carry a gun yes, otherwise no...just shoot them in the leg, that shouldn't kill anyone
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Posted: 8/22/2015 10:14:57 AM EDT
[#25]
No I don't. I have too much other stuff to carry, and I'm not going to wear anything resembling my duty rig while I'm off-duty.
My "casual attire" options are simpler (Kahr PM9, hands, or call someone else), but they're all fine options and I know when to use each. |
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Posted: 8/22/2015 11:38:27 AM EDT
[#26]
I'll be blunt, and probably unpopular.
As an active LEO I went into places looking for bad guys, investigating disturbances, etc, and while LEOs have a great deal of attitude and will usually get the benefit of the doubt on the use of lethal force, there was always a need for less than lethal force. I'm also old school and will argue that many LEOS today have gone badly off course in thinking that they can and should shoot as soon as they meet a legal minimum in terms of justification. That's not the case, as there are times when a legal minimum still does not constitute a lethal that, or require little force to de-escalate or resolve the incident. Now however, flying a desk in an administrative capacity that is more evaluation and regulatory enforcement than anything else, I don't have a need to go looking for trouble in dark and scary places. If I'm out and about alone or with my family, I'm going to rely on sound judgment, and SA to keep me out of situations that may require any kind of force. If I or my family am placed in a situation where an assailant is posing a clear threat of death or serious bodily injury, and the option to retreat is off the table, he's going to get shot center of mass, probably multiple times. Period. I don't see a need to dick around in the middle with less lethal force. In way too many cases it just encourages citizens to press the issue farther than they need to, thinking they can relay on less lethal force to prevail in an argument or a fight. I have no problem backing away from a challenge or fight as I have nothing to prove. I'm old enough and wise enough to not go looking for trouble and to know enough to stay out of trouble. |
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Posted: 8/22/2015 3:51:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Eyes throat temple and base of the skull. Its a bad idea to use a strike bezel (light impact cutting) flashlight or any weapon for that matter on something it cant destroy. Right tools for the job, etc. I did hit the guy in the base of the skull and the temple multiple times. Remember I was getting choked unconscious I was doing everything I could to get him to let go of the choke and then to make it so he could not finish me off another way. I have heard from other people that have used small flashlights as fist loads that had similar less then stellar results. My opinion is they probably work great if you are at boxing range and have room for full power swings, but once you are in trapping or grappling range they lose all utility as an impact weapon. |
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Posted: 8/22/2015 5:49:13 PM EDT
[#28]
Eye-gouging. It works, and doesn't require tools.
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Posted: 8/22/2015 5:55:01 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did hit the guy in the base of the skull and the temple multiple times. Remember I was getting choked unconscious I was doing everything I could to get him to let go of the choke and then to make it so he could not finish me off another way. I have heard from other people that have used small flashlights as fist loads that had similar less then stellar results. My opinion is they probably work great if you are at boxing range and have room for full power swings, but once you are in trapping or grappling range they lose all utility as an impact weapon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Eyes throat temple and base of the skull. Its a bad idea to use a strike bezel (light impact cutting) flashlight or any weapon for that matter on something it cant destroy. Right tools for the job, etc. I did hit the guy in the base of the skull and the temple multiple times. Remember I was getting choked unconscious I was doing everything I could to get him to let go of the choke and then to make it so he could not finish me off another way. I have heard from other people that have used small flashlights as fist loads that had similar less then stellar results. My opinion is they probably work great if you are at boxing range and have room for full power swings, but once you are in trapping or grappling range they lose all utility as an impact weapon. You didn't go in the right order. I cant imagine using a flashlight for "full power swings" Its supposed to be used as an aluminum thumb with a cutting edge. Eyes, throat, temple, base of skull. I have no heard of anyone with poked out eyes continuing an effective fight. Even actual pitbulls let go when their eyes go. |
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Posted: 8/22/2015 5:55:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Eye-gouging. It works, and doesn't require tools.http://attackproof.com/does-eye-gouging-work-in-real-sel-defense-fights.html Yeah. Its 100% effective. |
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Posted: 8/22/2015 5:58:17 PM EDT
[#31]
I consider the best pepper spray to be FOX LABS. I keep it in my car and my edc bag.
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Posted: 8/22/2015 5:59:19 PM EDT
[#32]
After the hell that George Zimmerman went through, every day I have some OC. We can talk about how a justified shoot is "a good shoot" all day long, but the sad truth is that even if the shoot is in fact justified, your life may still be utterly ruined. If George had possessed some basic hand-to-hand skills and/or a less lethal option (not to mention better situational awareness), he may not have been forced to shoot at all.
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Posted: 8/22/2015 11:14:49 PM EDT
[#33]
A less-lethal weapon should never replace situational awareness or basic hand-to-hand skills. Get those first and then decide if you want to bring something extra.
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Posted: 9/8/2015 11:18:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Anyone carry less lethal in conjunction with CCW? Thinking of getting some pepper spray like the Kimber 2. Any experience or suggestions? Catch and release is for fishing and women, not bad guys. Bad guys are entitled to many things, and one of them being a more permanent behavior solution. It worked for Michael Brown, he's gone a full year without committing a single crime! |
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Posted: 9/9/2015 8:06:46 AM EDT
[#35]
If going to a place that is very crowded, like a store on Black Friday, I will also carry pepper spray.
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Posted: 9/9/2015 2:48:14 PM EDT
[#36]
The only time I carry pepper spray is when I'm running through the neighborhood- mostly for dags.
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Posted: 9/9/2015 6:51:55 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Catch and release is for fishing and women, not bad guys. Bad guys are entitled to many things, and one of them being a more permanent behavior solution. It worked for Michael Brown, he's gone a full year without committing a single crime! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anyone carry less lethal in conjunction with CCW? Thinking of getting some pepper spray like the Kimber 2. Any experience or suggestions? Catch and release is for fishing and women, not bad guys. Bad guys are entitled to many things, and one of them being a more permanent behavior solution. It worked for Michael Brown, he's gone a full year without committing a single crime! Brown got the help he needed. |
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Posted: 9/10/2015 1:04:33 AM EDT
[#38]
I sometimes carry a sap. Love it, they should be legal in every state.
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Posted: 9/10/2015 11:50:37 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryWhat model is the unfolded blade? |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 8:18:48 PM EDT
[#40]
I carry a pepper blaster in addition to my ccw
But it is intended more as a dog countermeasure than against humans. Perhaps I might use it on a drunken asshole. |
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Posted: 9/16/2015 1:55:33 AM EDT
[#41]
I carry OC for work as required duty gear, but no where else. If I carried everything that could be useful. I'd be loaded down with stuff. I carry to defend myself against people who I reasonably believe intend to cause me great bodily harm or worse.
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Posted: 9/16/2015 2:10:30 AM EDT
[#42]
I don't carry OC. I have breathing problems and don't need to have the spray giving ME a problem. Spraying OC inside of a vehicle isn't the best thing to do anyway. Too much chance of it blowing back at you. I carry a SOG knife besides my CCW. If I think someone is going to do me deadly harm, it's time for the CCW. If the threat isn't that great I will retreat, use my knife if necessary, and use my cellphone to summon 911. If I can't get 911, they go to the ground with my CCW covering them and I wait for someone to get help. I don't go into isolated places anymore because of health problems. Being partially handicapped now, my situational awareness is much more acute than it used to be!!
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Posted: 9/16/2015 3:55:32 AM EDT
[#43]
I carried an asp key defender for a couple of years (until I lost the key ring it was on). I only used it once when my dog was attacked by another dog.
It's light weight, slim and goes on your key ring, so you don't have to worry about forgetting it or it taking up to much space like a MKIII will. I really should get another. |
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Posted: 9/18/2015 4:30:46 PM EDT
[#44]
I'm old, not as spry as I used to be. I carry because I just can't do grappling and fist fighting any more. I would not even consider messing with 'less than lethal. If I am attacked, my goal is to stop the attack. Right then.
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