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Posted: 8/9/2015 12:41:55 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What makes you say that...source? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Jeeper21 I believe Rem said they would do commercial sales ONLY if it becomes a Mil/LE success... Oh god, the stupidity.  Sometimes I wonder how in the hell companies like Remington manage to stay afloat after so many stupid decisions that regard screwing over the Civilian market. No Law Enforcement Agency or Military would ever want to adopt the ACR. Remington better be getting a corporate restructuring and new management soon or else they will go the way of Colt. What makes you say that...source? No source, just common sense. The Ar-15 platform currently rules the world of Assault Rifles, carbines, and regular old rifles. It's a far better value for militaries, or law enforcement agencies to adopt a Ar-15 platform and benefit from the large consumer support of spare parts and accessories that follow it. A $1,500 dollar Ar-15 is the better value over the ACR, which is the same cost. However there is less incentive to adopt the ACR, a lot less considering the talking points mentioned previously. If a military does adopt the ACR, which I highly doubt unless that military or Private Army has a shitload of money flowing out their wahzoo to be able to afford such amenities, then I will gladly eat my words. If I were Remington, I know banking on LEO/Military Sales would result in going the way of Colt. It's not going to be a pleasant future. I would have more success if I went the commercial route and just started selling the ACRs willy-nilly to every Bob, Joe, and Schmoe that had the money to buy it while marketing the damn thing aggressively. |
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Posted: 8/10/2015 9:46:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No source, just common sense. The Ar-15 platform currently rules the world of Assault Rifles, carbines, and regular old rifles. It's a far better value for militaries, or law enforcement agencies to adopt a Ar-15 platform and benefit from the large consumer support of spare parts and accessories that follow it. A $1,500 dollar Ar-15 is the better value over the ACR, which is the same cost. However there is less incentive to adopt the ACR, a lot less considering the talking points mentioned previously. If a military does adopt the ACR, which I highly doubt unless that military or Private Army has a shitload of money flowing out their wahzoo to be able to afford such amenities, then I will gladly eat my words. If I were Remington, I know banking on LEO/Military Sales would result in going the way of Colt. It's not going to be a pleasant future. I would have more success if I went the commercial route and just started selling the ACRs willy-nilly to every Bob, Joe, and Schmoe that had the money to buy it while marketing the damn thing aggressively. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Jeeper21
I believe Rem said they would do commercial sales ONLY if it becomes a Mil/LE success... Oh god, the stupidity.
Sometimes I wonder how in the hell companies like Remington manage to stay afloat after so many stupid decisions that regard screwing over the Civilian market. No Law Enforcement Agency or Military would ever want to adopt the ACR. Remington better be getting a corporate restructuring and new management soon or else they will go the way of Colt. What makes you say that...source? No source, just common sense. The Ar-15 platform currently rules the world of Assault Rifles, carbines, and regular old rifles. It's a far better value for militaries, or law enforcement agencies to adopt a Ar-15 platform and benefit from the large consumer support of spare parts and accessories that follow it. A $1,500 dollar Ar-15 is the better value over the ACR, which is the same cost. However there is less incentive to adopt the ACR, a lot less considering the talking points mentioned previously. If a military does adopt the ACR, which I highly doubt unless that military or Private Army has a shitload of money flowing out their wahzoo to be able to afford such amenities, then I will gladly eat my words. If I were Remington, I know banking on LEO/Military Sales would result in going the way of Colt. It's not going to be a pleasant future. I would have more success if I went the commercial route and just started selling the ACRs willy-nilly to every Bob, Joe, and Schmoe that had the money to buy it while marketing the damn thing aggressively. Granted, it's not "adopted" but they are used by a military. 
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/05/30/remington-acr-deployed-in-afganistan-with-polish-sf/ |
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Posted: 8/10/2015 10:49:40 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Granted, it's not "adopted" but they are used by a military. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/05/30/remington-acr-deployed-in-afganistan-with-polish-sf/ Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Jeeper21 I believe Rem said they would do commercial sales ONLY if it becomes a Mil/LE success... Oh god, the stupidity. Sometimes I wonder how in the hell companies like Remington manage to stay afloat after so many stupid decisions that regard screwing over the Civilian market. No Law Enforcement Agency or Military would ever want to adopt the ACR. Remington better be getting a corporate restructuring and new management soon or else they will go the way of Colt. What makes you say that...source? No source, just common sense. The Ar-15 platform currently rules the world of Assault Rifles, carbines, and regular old rifles. It's a far better value for militaries, or law enforcement agencies to adopt a Ar-15 platform and benefit from the large consumer support of spare parts and accessories that follow it. A $1,500 dollar Ar-15 is the better value over the ACR, which is the same cost. However there is less incentive to adopt the ACR, a lot less considering the talking points mentioned previously. If a military does adopt the ACR, which I highly doubt unless that military or Private Army has a shitload of money flowing out their wahzoo to be able to afford such amenities, then I will gladly eat my words. If I were Remington, I know banking on LEO/Military Sales would result in going the way of Colt. It's not going to be a pleasant future. I would have more success if I went the commercial route and just started selling the ACRs willy-nilly to every Bob, Joe, and Schmoe that had the money to buy it while marketing the damn thing aggressively. Granted, it's not "adopted" but they are used by a military. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/05/30/remington-acr-deployed-in-afganistan-with-polish-sf/ |
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Posted: 8/10/2015 10:51:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
I have been looking at piston rifles other than AR's and lately looking seriously at the Bushmaster ACR. I know it is is heavy and has little after market products, but I like the looks and the design. Does anyone have any experience wit the ACR that would help in my decision. Elkman: got your IM and replied but your inbox is full. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 7:38:01 AM EDT
[#5]
Inbox is now empty.
Sorry, didn't realize it was full. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 12:43:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Big +1 on wanting Geissele to make a handguard. Never seen a more hated rifle than the ACR. And 99 percent of the hate has nothing to do with the rifle. It's all about Bushmaster. 
it's about magpul abandoning it. it's about 1:9 it's about an M4 profile barrel it's about being front heavy it's about the quick change barrel being slow to market It's about the price point taking into account the lack of features It's NOT about bushmaster |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 2:38:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it's about magpul abandoning it. it's about 1:9 it's about an M4 profile barrel it's about being front heavy it's about the quick change barrel being slow to market It's about the price point taking into account the lack of features It's NOT about bushmaster Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Big +1 on wanting Geissele to make a handguard. Never seen a more hated rifle than the ACR. And 99 percent of the hate has nothing to do with the rifle. It's all about Bushmaster.
it's about magpul abandoning it. it's about 1:9 it's about an M4 profile barrel it's about being front heavy it's about the quick change barrel being slow to market It's about the price point taking into account the lack of features It's NOT about bushmaster Ummmm.......pretty sure Magpul sold the rights to Bushmaster. So everything you mentioned that is wrong (in your opinion) with the ACR (which is easily fixed) would be because of decisions that were made on behalf of Bushmaster in their production. Would it not? |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 3:05:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ummmm.......pretty sure Magpul sold the rights to Bushmaster. So everything you mentioned that is wrong (in your opinion) with the ACR (which is easily fixed) would be because of decisions that were made on behalf of Bushmaster in their production. Would it not? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Big +1 on wanting Geissele to make a handguard. Never seen a more hated rifle than the ACR. And 99 percent of the hate has nothing to do with the rifle. It's all about Bushmaster.
it's about magpul abandoning it. it's about 1:9 it's about an M4 profile barrel it's about being front heavy it's about the quick change barrel being slow to market It's about the price point taking into account the lack of features It's NOT about bushmaster Ummmm.......pretty sure Magpul sold the rights to Bushmaster. So everything you mentioned that is wrong (in your opinion) with the ACR (which is easily fixed) would be because of decisions that were made on behalf of Bushmaster in their production. Would it not? I don't have the slightest idea what you're trying to say. The hate is directed at the rifle b/c of the things I mentioned. Nobody cares that's bushmaster that's the company producing it. People aren't bashing the ACR b/c bushmaster is gay or so 90s or not tier 1 or whatever. Nobody cares about bushmaster, they care about the perceived flaws of the rifle itself. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 3:06:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it's about magpul abandoning it. it's about 1:9 it's about an M4 profile barrel it's about being front heavy it's about the quick change barrel being slow to market It's about the price point taking into account the lack of features It's NOT about bushmaster Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Big +1 on wanting Geissele to make a handguard. Never seen a more hated rifle than the ACR. And 99 percent of the hate has nothing to do with the rifle. It's all about Bushmaster.
it's about magpul abandoning it. it's about 1:9 it's about an M4 profile barrel it's about being front heavy it's about the quick change barrel being slow to market It's about the price point taking into account the lack of features It's NOT about bushmaster 
A lot of those poor market and product decisions are definitely about Bushmaster. Magpul never had the capability to manufacture the rifle anyway. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 3:26:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ummmm.......pretty sure Magpul sold the rights to Bushmaster. So everything you mentioned that is wrong (in your opinion) with the ACR (which is easily fixed) would be because of decisions that were made on behalf of Bushmaster in their production. Would it not? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Big +1 on wanting Geissele to make a handguard. Never seen a more hated rifle than the ACR. And 99 percent of the hate has nothing to do with the rifle. It's all about Bushmaster.
it's about magpul abandoning it. it's about 1:9 it's about an M4 profile barrel it's about being front heavy it's about the quick change barrel being slow to market It's about the price point taking into account the lack of features It's NOT about bushmaster Ummmm.......pretty sure Magpul sold the rights to Bushmaster. So everything you mentioned that is wrong (in your opinion) with the ACR (which is easily fixed) would be because of decisions that were made on behalf of Bushmaster in their production. Would it not? It's not the brand name or logo that's the problem. It's the choices that brand have made with their product, and you can't divorce the OEM product from the brand. Magpul makes many of the parts for the ACR, and I think most were hoping they would continue to provide aftermarket support to the product. In reality, that would allow them to provide parts twice for many guns sold. In reality, I'm not sure what else Magpul should make for this though considering they make both a folding and fixed stock, and a MOE-style and quad rail handguard for it. Magpul supports the gun (through BM). It's really the need to get other companies on board. Really, there need to be some other options: Handguard choices (Geiselle is an excellent start). Lowers (Someone other than Remington should make Magnesium, aluminum, or modular polymer lowers. maybe handl?) Lightweight, non-QD barrel nuts. You should shed a ton of weight with a Ti or aluminum ring. (Geiselle would kill with this too). The biggest hurdle is the FACTORY barrels. They 1:9 with a goofy profile that's heavier than they need to be. I'll replace furniture on a brand new rifle, but I shouldn't have to upgrade a barrel right out of the box. ETA: I really hope the ACR works long-term. I'd really like one, but I can't bring myself to buy a $1500 base rifle then spend another K to replace major components to get what I want. I read about an aftermarket trunnion project, and that kind of thinking is seriously cool. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 3:51:58 PM EDT
[#11]
The thing is, if and when Bushmaster pulls its' head out of its' ass, the ACR could become a big player again. Adco and Marvin Pitts already offer barrel servicing. Geissele is jumping in starting with prototypes. RemDef might be offering parts for sale separately.
Nobody is advocating the ACR replace the ARs in any one person's collection, so there's no reason to take things super seriously. It's a fun and interesting firearm with some great features. I have legitimate complaints, but it's not a deal breaker at the current $1500 price point. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 3:56:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Guess I wasn't clear.
I feel the things that are disliked about the ACR, such as the 1/9 twist, barrel profile, cost, etc., were a direct result of Bushmasters decisions concerning production. I'm not saying people don't like it because it says Bushmaster on the side. Although if it said Magpul Masada on the side, I bet it would have gotten more fanfare. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 4:00:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The thing is, if and when Bushmaster pulls its' head out of its' ass, the ACR could become a big player again. Adco and Marvin Pitts already offer barrel servicing. Geissele is jumping in starting with prototypes. RemDef might be offering parts for sale separately. Nobody is advocating the ACR replace the ARs in any one person's collection, so there's no reason to take things super seriously. It's a fun and interesting firearm with some great features. I have legitimate complaints, but it's not a deal breaker at the current $1500 price point. Where did you hear this? I think the base design of the ACR is very promising. I will say that the ACR fans are among the most ingenious of any of the MSR crowds. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 4:28:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really hope the ACR works long-term. I'd really like one, but I can't bring myself to buy a $1500 base rifle then spend another K to replace major components to get what I want. This $1199 and a $300 Geissele rail and a muzzle device is what I'd be comfortable doing. Reprofile a barrel outta the gate on a $1500 rifle? No thanks. PS, 1:9 doesn't really bother me as it'd be a range toy anyways shooting steel or 55g crap |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 4:46:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where did you hear this? I think the base design of the ACR is very promising. I will say that the ACR fans are among the most ingenious of any of the MSR crowds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The thing is, if and when Bushmaster pulls its' head out of its' ass, the ACR could become a big player again. Adco and Marvin Pitts already offer barrel servicing. Geissele is jumping in starting with prototypes. RemDef might be offering parts for sale separately. Nobody is advocating the ACR replace the ARs in any one person's collection, so there's no reason to take things super seriously. It's a fun and interesting firearm with some great features. I have legitimate complaints, but it's not a deal breaker at the current $1500 price point. Where did you hear this? I think the base design of the ACR is very promising. I will say that the ACR fans are among the most ingenious of any of the MSR crowds. The ACR forum. Guy over there is friends with the sales manager at RemDef, and he has stated they were planning on releasing parts. Of course, we've been let down so many times, I'm not holding my breath. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 5:11:17 PM EDT
[#16]
I must say I have buyer's remorse on the ACR and I haven't even shot it. I bought it when they hit $1500 as I've always had my eye on one. I shunned it at its original price and the weight/balance was a turn off based on handling it in person. Well at $1500 I figure I could live with it or must have "forgotten" my initial experience. After fondling it for sometime I feel kind of sick. It's still bad unless I do a bunch of work or spend some money. I look at all my ARs where I can spend $1500 and have a lighter, more capable weapon. Plus the AR aftermarket offers so much more.
This isn't to say the ACR can't be a viable platform but I can't jump on board at the moment. I plan on getting rid of mine. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 6:43:18 PM EDT
[#17]
So I've never really even heard of the ACR until I stumbled across the thread in the Geissele forum. Anyone wanna give me an UNBIASED low down of the gun?
I own Scars, DI/piston ARs, and a Tavor... does the ACR offer something different? |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 6:56:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I've never really even heard of the ACR until I stumbled across the thread in the Geissele forum. Anyone wanna give me an UNBIASED low down of the gun? I own Scars, DI/piston ARs, and a Tavor... does the ACR offer something different? A heavy rifle, with a stupid barrel, ok ergonomics, poor aftermarket No more reliable than an ar. 1,500 gets you a nice ar, with any barrel profile/twist rate you want. You don't buy one to be practical, you buy it to be different |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 7:17:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A heavy rifle, with a stupid barrel, ok ergonomics, poor aftermarket No more reliable than an ar. 1,500 gets you a nice ar, with any barrel profile/twist rate you want. You don't buy one to be practical, you buy it to be different Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So I've never really even heard of the ACR until I stumbled across the thread in the Geissele forum. Anyone wanna give me an UNBIASED low down of the gun? I own Scars, DI/piston ARs, and a Tavor... does the ACR offer something different? A heavy rifle, with a stupid barrel, ok ergonomics, poor aftermarket No more reliable than an ar. 1,500 gets you a nice ar, with any barrel profile/twist rate you want. You don't buy one to be practical, you buy it to be different You're really on a tear today. Yes, there are things that could definitely be improved, but it's a well constructed gun. If you're looking for something different, it's a great gun to pick up. Bushmaster could have done a lot of things differently, but the hate comes from a lot of people who've never owned or fired one. Nobody is saying it should replace an AR or other firearms in an individual's collection. I really like mine. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 7:56:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The thing is, if and when Bushmaster pulls its' head out of its' ass, the ACR could become a big player again. Adco and Marvin Pitts already offer barrel servicing. Geissele is jumping in starting with prototypes. RemDef might be offering parts for sale separately. Nobody is advocating the ACR replace the ARs in any one person's collection, so there's no reason to take things super seriously. It's a fun and interesting firearm with some great features. I have legitimate complaints, but it's not a deal breaker at the current $1500 price point. That rifle is going nowhere fast. It is more likely it will be discontinued at some point....which is sad because I think it has a lot of potential. I don't want to have to join a forum to search for obscure and hard to find 3rd party parts, or pine away for years at vaporware that might get made. I am not alone, and that explains the dismal sales. What is so frustrating, is all this is so easily fixed by the manufacturer. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 8:08:40 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're really on a tear today. Yes, there are things that could definitely be improved, but it's a well constructed gun. If you're looking for something different, it's a great gun to pick up. Bushmaster could have done a lot of things differently, but the hate comes from a lot of people who've never owned or fired one. Nobody is saying it should replace an AR or other firearms in an individual's collection. I really like mine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So I've never really even heard of the ACR until I stumbled across the thread in the Geissele forum. Anyone wanna give me an UNBIASED low down of the gun? I own Scars, DI/piston ARs, and a Tavor... does the ACR offer something different? A heavy rifle, with a stupid barrel, ok ergonomics, poor aftermarket No more reliable than an ar. 1,500 gets you a nice ar, with any barrel profile/twist rate you want. You don't buy one to be practical, you buy it to be different You're really on a tear today. Yes, there are things that could definitely be improved, but it's a well constructed gun. If you're looking for something different, it's a great gun to pick up. Bushmaster could have done a lot of things differently, but the hate comes from a lot of people who've never owned or fired one. Nobody is saying it should replace an AR or other firearms in an individual's collection. I really like mine. You'll get no argument from me. I tried giving a quick and dirty review, devoid of emotion, that answers his question |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 8:16:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That rifle is going nowhere fast. It is more likely it will be discontinued at some point....which is sad because I think it has a lot of potential. I don't want to have to join a forum to search for obscure and hard to find 3rd party parts, or pine away for years at vaporware that might get made. I am not alone, and that explains the dismal sales. What is so frustrating, is all this is so easily fixed by the manufacturer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The thing is, if and when Bushmaster pulls its' head out of its' ass, the ACR could become a big player again. Adco and Marvin Pitts already offer barrel servicing. Geissele is jumping in starting with prototypes. RemDef might be offering parts for sale separately. Nobody is advocating the ACR replace the ARs in any one person's collection, so there's no reason to take things super seriously. It's a fun and interesting firearm with some great features. I have legitimate complaints, but it's not a deal breaker at the current $1500 price point. That rifle is going nowhere fast. It is more likely it will be discontinued at some point....which is sad because I think it has a lot of potential. I don't want to have to join a forum to search for obscure and hard to find 3rd party parts, or pine away for years at vaporware that might get made. I am not alone, and that explains the dismal sales. What is so frustrating, is all this is so easily fixed by the manufacturer. I'm starry eyed because I just purchased a couple. I'm not sure what the future holds, but I appreciate it for what it is, and again, no one is advocating selling their ARs to fund one. The only reason I purchased an ACR was because I was seriously bored. Next up - Scar 16s. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 8:23:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm starry eyed because I just purchased a couple. I'm not sure what the future holds, but I appreciate it for what it is, and again, no one is advocating selling their ARs to fund one. The only reason I purchased an ACR was because I was seriously bored. Next up - Scar 16s. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
The thing is, if and when Bushmaster pulls its' head out of its' ass, the ACR could become a big player again. Adco and Marvin Pitts already offer barrel servicing. Geissele is jumping in starting with prototypes. RemDef might be offering parts for sale separately. Nobody is advocating the ACR replace the ARs in any one person's collection, so there's no reason to take things super seriously. It's a fun and interesting firearm with some great features. I have legitimate complaints, but it's not a deal breaker at the current $1500 price point. That rifle is going nowhere fast. It is more likely it will be discontinued at some point....which is sad because I think it has a lot of potential. I don't want to have to join a forum to search for obscure and hard to find 3rd party parts, or pine away for years at vaporware that might get made. I am not alone, and that explains the dismal sales. What is so frustrating, is all this is so easily fixed by the manufacturer. I'm starry eyed because I just purchased a couple. I'm not sure what the future holds, but I appreciate it for what it is, and again, no one is advocating selling their ARs to fund one. The only reason I purchased an ACR was because I was seriously bored. Next up - Scar 16s. Same here. New was wearing off my Tavor. Tired of AR's. Just wanted something a little different. Love my ACR though. If you don't like them, don't buy one. Real simple. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 8:31:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'll get no argument from me. I tried giving a quick and dirty review, devoid of emotion, that answers his question To be fair, your review was actually pretty accurate. The only part I disagree with is ergonomics. I think it's much better than an AR, especially the charging handle. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 8:40:03 PM EDT
[#25]
double.
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Posted: 8/11/2015 9:29:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That rifle is going nowhere fast. It is more likely it will be discontinued at some point....which is sad because I think it has a lot of potential. I don't want to have to join a forum to search for obscure and hard to find 3rd party parts, or pine away for years at vaporware that might get made. I am not alone, and that explains the dismal sales. What is so frustrating, is all this is so easily fixed by the manufacturer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The thing is, if and when Bushmaster pulls its' head out of its' ass, the ACR could become a big player again. Adco and Marvin Pitts already offer barrel servicing. Geissele is jumping in starting with prototypes. RemDef might be offering parts for sale separately. Nobody is advocating the ACR replace the ARs in any one person's collection, so there's no reason to take things super seriously. It's a fun and interesting firearm with some great features. I have legitimate complaints, but it's not a deal breaker at the current $1500 price point. That rifle is going nowhere fast. It is more likely it will be discontinued at some point....which is sad because I think it has a lot of potential. I don't want to have to join a forum to search for obscure and hard to find 3rd party parts, or pine away for years at vaporware that might get made. I am not alone, and that explains the dismal sales. What is so frustrating, is all this is so easily fixed by the manufacturer. Yes I was handling one at a local shop last week and thought wow this rifle has potential but support/upgrades/options just stopped dead in its tracks. |
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Posted: 8/12/2015 4:33:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I own Scars, DI/piston ARs, and a Tavor... does the ACR offer something different? The bolt release is pretty awesome. Apart from the other rifles you mentioned, not really. FORMER ACR owner. |
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Posted: 8/12/2015 11:58:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bolt release is pretty awesome. Apart from the other rifles you mentioned, not really. FORMER ACR owner. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I own Scars, DI/piston ARs, and a Tavor... does the ACR offer something different? The bolt release is pretty awesome. Apart from the other rifles you mentioned, not really. FORMER ACR owner. Wow, that's all you can say about the rifle? It's disassembles faster than the SCAR and is more modular in it's currently available hardware. With the exception of the proprietary gas system components, it utilizes standard ar15 barrels. It uses standard ar15 fire control groups (with minor modification). Although there are some short-comings, it is definitely not just another rifle. |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 3:22:50 AM EDT
[#29]
I still remember asking the rep why they went with a m4 barrel
Market research
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Posted: 8/13/2015 3:33:43 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still remember asking the rep why they went with a m4 barrel Market research Coincidentally, it was also the cheapest option. |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 3:38:14 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow, that's all you can say about the rifle? It's disassembles faster than the SCAR and is more modular in it's currently available hardware. With the exception of the proprietary gas system components, it utilizes standard ar15 barrels. It uses standard ar15 fire control groups (with minor modification). Although there are some short-comings, it is definitely not just another rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I own Scars, DI/piston ARs, and a Tavor... does the ACR offer something different? The bolt release is pretty awesome. Apart from the other rifles you mentioned, not really. FORMER ACR owner. Wow, that's all you can say about the rifle? It's disassembles faster than the SCAR and is more modular in it's currently available hardware. With the exception of the proprietary gas system components, it utilizes standard ar15 barrels. It uses standard ar15 fire control groups (with minor modification). Although there are some short-comings, it is definitely not just another rifle. Well, yes it is just another rifle, remember that the scar isn't the ACR's only competition. The ACR's 2 biggest selling points was was that it going to replace the m4, and it would be cheap And as we all know, neither of those things happened, and the downturn in price is just recent. The shortcomings it has are pretty glaring |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 3:39:14 AM EDT
[#32]
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Coincidentally, it was also the cheapest option. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I still remember asking the rep why they went with a m4 barrel Market research Coincidentally, it was also the cheapest option. Considering it hit the street at almost 2k.... |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 8:20:56 AM EDT
[#33]
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Wow, that's all you can say about the rifle? It's disassembles faster than the SCAR and is more modular in it's currently available hardware. With the exception of the proprietary gas system components, it utilizes standard ar15 barrels. It uses standard ar15 fire control groups (with minor modification). Although there are some short-comings, it is definitely not just another rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I own Scars, DI/piston ARs, and a Tavor... does the ACR offer something different? The bolt release is pretty awesome. Apart from the other rifles you mentioned, not really. FORMER ACR owner. Wow, that's all you can say about the rifle? It's disassembles faster than the SCAR and is more modular in it's currently available hardware. With the exception of the proprietary gas system components, it utilizes standard ar15 barrels. It uses standard ar15 fire control groups (with minor modification). Although there are some short-comings, it is definitely not just another rifle. Fast disassembly is not exactly a huge selling point, nor is it a reason to choose one gun over another. It's not like the other gun is a Browning Buckmark. The biggest problem is the initial price offering was $2K+ for the first several years. As the price comes down, it will be more popular (duh), but the biggest hurdle is buying a $1500 to use the receiver, then buy aftermarket parts and pay for getting work done on it. A lot of guys like myself would love to build up an ACR. But once you replace the barrel (and send it to marvin pitts) you're looking at an additional few hundred. Then replacing the trunion to cut significant front-end weight (not available yet), then replacing the lower with an aluminum or magnesium lower (not available yet), and buying a new handguard and trigger, you're looking at another $1000. That's why people have been holding out for the Remington version. Additional handguard options, modular lower receiver, and a much lighter front end. Unless Remington starts offering their version, or BM starts offering additional updated versions, the ACR will always be a hobbyist gun for a niche who appreciates the gun because it's a project, like the Jeep fans of the gun world. |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 12:04:58 PM EDT
[#34]
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Wow, that's all you can say about the rifle? It's disassembles faster than the SCAR and is more modular in it's currently available hardware. With the exception of the proprietary gas system components, it utilizes standard ar15 barrels. It uses standard ar15 fire control groups (with minor modification). Although there are some short-comings, it is definitely not just another rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I own Scars, DI/piston ARs, and a Tavor... does the ACR offer something different? The bolt release is pretty awesome. Apart from the other rifles you mentioned, not really. FORMER ACR owner. Wow, that's all you can say about the rifle? It's disassembles faster than the SCAR and is more modular in it's currently available hardware. With the exception of the proprietary gas system components, it utilizes standard ar15 barrels. It uses standard ar15 fire control groups (with minor modification). Although there are some short-comings, it is definitely not just another rifle. I was trying to be nice, and I took the question to be an inquiry as to the positive features that the ACR has that the others don't. Here is what I posted in a similar thread earlier this year, and is a summary of my experience with it: "It was very poorly executed. I bought one fairly early on for $1800, and had multiple problems with it. Sent it back to BM after a roll pin in the charging handle walked out, causing the non-reciprocating function to fail. CH recip'ed, roll pin gouged the receiver and seized the whole system. Sent it in and BM sent me an entirely new rifle. The new rifle was overgassed and ran 5.56 spec ammo way too fast, causing odd ejection failures. I sent the barrel off to adco to be cut to 14.5 and reprofiled to lightweight, which seemed to resolve the overgassing problem. Shortly thereafter I noticed that the bolt and barrel extention lugs were peening because the barrel wouldn't index properly, which was unsurprising because the ratcheting barrel nut never locked up in the same place when I would remove the barrel. I decided the ACR was a POS and sold it." |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 1:04:37 PM EDT
[#35]
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Coincidentally, it was also the cheapest option. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I still remember asking the rep why they went with a m4 barrel Market research Coincidentally, it was also the cheapest option. I'm sure it was but I really wonder with the scale these guys work with I really wonder how much cost it adds. It's not like the M4 barrel is a simple profile. It's also not like they couldn't just sell whatever leftover ACR barrels they had as a bastard ar run like they have done plenty of times. Some kind of medium light straight profile with a 7 or 8 twist. So stupid. |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 2:56:16 PM EDT
[#36]
So far from what I see, the biggest complaint is with Bushmaster. Not with ACR itself.
Does anyone have a current production ACR that is giving them problems, or is it just with the older models ? |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 3:56:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Biggest complaint of the ACR seems to be about the m4 cut barrel. Why? Even if you re-profile you're only shaving ounces. It's still a front heavy rifle.
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Posted: 8/13/2015 4:07:24 PM EDT
[#38]
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I'm sure it was but I really wonder with the scale these guys work with I really wonder how much cost it adds. It's not like the M4 barrel is a simple profile. It's also not like they couldn't just sell whatever leftover ACR barrels they had as a bastard ar run like they have done plenty of times. Some kind of medium light straight profile with a 7 or 8 twist. So stupid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I still remember asking the rep why they went with a m4 barrel Market research Coincidentally, it was also the cheapest option. I'm sure it was but I really wonder with the scale these guys work with I really wonder how much cost it adds. It's not like the M4 barrel is a simple profile. It's also not like they couldn't just sell whatever leftover ACR barrels they had as a bastard ar run like they have done plenty of times. Some kind of medium light straight profile with a 7 or 8 twist. So stupid. Life rule #1: Follow the $$$. Works every time. Whatever the logistics are, the M4 bbl. mfg costs were probably already amortized over hundreds (thousands?) of bbls from prior M4gery production. The set is in place to keep making them. No additional tooling costs, no bugs to iron out, etc. Probably the only "zero investment" item on the ACR prod parts list. If the gun had sold in higher numbers, then a new bbl profile probably could have been in the offing. But alas, it ain't gonna happen. I wouldn't hold hope out for Remington, either. |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 4:45:31 PM EDT
[#39]
This thread needs more pics (and less bitching).
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Posted: 8/13/2015 5:09:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread needs more pics (and less bitching). http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd448/sdrake100/e345a146-521f-4e9c-9396-d07f2a9378b5_zpsng05tr6h.jpg   |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 5:24:49 PM EDT
[#41]
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<a href="http://s92.photobucket.com/user/HK94dude/media/32D5BDAD-823E-4444-9AF7-1DF1C6BBE7C4_zps6zeqig9t.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/HK94dude/32D5BDAD-823E-4444-9AF7-1DF1C6BBE7C4_zps6zeqig9t.jpg</a> <a href="http://s92.photobucket.com/user/HK94dude/media/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/HK94dude/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This thread needs more pics (and less bitching). http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd448/sdrake100/e345a146-521f-4e9c-9396-d07f2a9378b5_zpsng05tr6h.jpg <a href="http://s92.photobucket.com/user/HK94dude/media/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/HK94dude/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg</a> Barrel length? |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 5:32:43 PM EDT
[#42]
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Fast disassembly is not exactly a huge selling point, nor is it a reason to choose one gun over another. It's not like the other gun is a Browning Buckmark. The biggest problem is the initial price offering was $2K+ for the first several years. As the price comes down, it will be more popular (duh), but the biggest hurdle is buying a $1500 to use the receiver, then buy aftermarket parts and pay for getting work done on it. A lot of guys like myself would love to build up an ACR. But once you replace the barrel (and send it to marvin pitts) you're looking at an additional few hundred. Then replacing the trunion to cut significant front-end weight (not available yet), then replacing the lower with an aluminum or magnesium lower (not available yet), and buying a new handguard and trigger, you're looking at another $1000. That's why people have been holding out for the Remington version. Additional handguard options, modular lower receiver, and a much lighter front end. Unless Remington starts offering their version, or BM starts offering additional updated versions, the ACR will always be a hobbyist gun for a niche who appreciates the gun because it's a project, like the Jeep fans of the gun world. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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I own Scars, DI/piston ARs, and a Tavor... does the ACR offer something different? The bolt release is pretty awesome. Apart from the other rifles you mentioned, not really. FORMER ACR owner. Wow, that's all you can say about the rifle? It's disassembles faster than the SCAR and is more modular in it's currently available hardware. With the exception of the proprietary gas system components, it utilizes standard ar15 barrels. It uses standard ar15 fire control groups (with minor modification). Although there are some short-comings, it is definitely not just another rifle. Fast disassembly is not exactly a huge selling point, nor is it a reason to choose one gun over another. It's not like the other gun is a Browning Buckmark. The biggest problem is the initial price offering was $2K+ for the first several years. As the price comes down, it will be more popular (duh), but the biggest hurdle is buying a $1500 to use the receiver, then buy aftermarket parts and pay for getting work done on it. A lot of guys like myself would love to build up an ACR. But once you replace the barrel (and send it to marvin pitts) you're looking at an additional few hundred. Then replacing the trunion to cut significant front-end weight (not available yet), then replacing the lower with an aluminum or magnesium lower (not available yet), and buying a new handguard and trigger, you're looking at another $1000. That's why people have been holding out for the Remington version. Additional handguard options, modular lower receiver, and a much lighter front end. Unless Remington starts offering their version, or BM starts offering additional updated versions, the ACR will always be a hobbyist gun for a niche who appreciates the gun because it's a project, like the Jeep fans of the gun world. To the Army, rapid and ease of disassembly is one the bullet points when it comes to deciding on adopting a weapon system. It's why the M60 lost favor to the 240b. I have no ill sentiment to either machinegun or even to the SCAR but it was part of the reason why I choose the ACR over the SCAR. The release price continues to be argued and unfortunately, a new weapon system isn't going to be cheap. Manufacturers needed to recoup their R&D and investment costs, so in the end, it's the consumer who will be burdened by those costs. Price aside, it's not the terrible weapon people make it out to be and it does deserve more respect than what it receives. I've seen stock Noveske rifles be modified by their owners, so just because a weapon is expensive, doesn't mean it meets the customers needs/tastes. It's only a niche weapon because that's what the market turned it into. |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 5:37:58 PM EDT
[#43]
As the barrel began to heat up, so did the group size. I'm not a personal fan of the QD barrel nut, especially when tailoring the weapon in a precision role. Currently working with a machinist to try and replicate a similar barrel nut that Remington is offering in their model. |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 5:53:58 PM EDT
[#44]
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<a href="http://s92.photobucket.com/user/HK94dude/media/32D5BDAD-823E-4444-9AF7-1DF1C6BBE7C4_zps6zeqig9t.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/HK94dude/32D5BDAD-823E-4444-9AF7-1DF1C6BBE7C4_zps6zeqig9t.jpg</a> <a href="http://s92.photobucket.com/user/HK94dude/media/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/HK94dude/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This thread needs more pics (and less bitching). http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd448/sdrake100/e345a146-521f-4e9c-9396-d07f2a9378b5_zpsng05tr6h.jpg <a href="http://s92.photobucket.com/user/HK94dude/media/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/HK94dude/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg</a> Looks like 10.5 carbine length piston. |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 6:37:08 PM EDT
[#45]
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<a href="http://s92.photobucket.com/user/HK94dude/media/32D5BDAD-823E-4444-9AF7-1DF1C6BBE7C4_zps6zeqig9t.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/HK94dude/32D5BDAD-823E-4444-9AF7-1DF1C6BBE7C4_zps6zeqig9t.jpg</a> <a href="http://s92.photobucket.com/user/HK94dude/media/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/HK94dude/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This thread needs more pics (and less bitching). http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd448/sdrake100/e345a146-521f-4e9c-9396-d07f2a9378b5_zpsng05tr6h.jpg <a href="http://s92.photobucket.com/user/HK94dude/media/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/HK94dude/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg</a> What hand guard? Very nice ACR btw |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 6:55:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like 10.5 carbine length piston. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This thread needs more pics (and less bitching). http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd448/sdrake100/e345a146-521f-4e9c-9396-d07f2a9378b5_zpsng05tr6h.jpg <a href="http://s92.photobucket.com/user/HK94dude/media/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/HK94dude/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg</a> Looks like 10.5 carbine length piston. |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 10:09:56 PM EDT
[#47]
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correct. Not near as front end heavy as before Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This thread needs more pics (and less bitching). http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd448/sdrake100/e345a146-521f-4e9c-9396-d07f2a9378b5_zpsng05tr6h.jpg <a href="http://s92.photobucket.com/user/HK94dude/media/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/HK94dude/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg</a> Looks like 10.5 carbine length piston. Are there different piston lengths? |
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Posted: 8/13/2015 10:20:08 PM EDT
[#48]
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What hand guard? Very nice ACR btw Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This thread needs more pics (and less bitching). http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd448/sdrake100/e345a146-521f-4e9c-9396-d07f2a9378b5_zpsng05tr6h.jpg <a href="http://s92.photobucket.com/user/HK94dude/media/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/HK94dude/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg</a> What hand guard? Very nice ACR btw Looks like the Clandestine Components handguard. |
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Posted: 8/14/2015 12:43:54 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are there different piston lengths? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This thread needs more pics (and less bitching). http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd448/sdrake100/e345a146-521f-4e9c-9396-d07f2a9378b5_zpsng05tr6h.jpg <a href="http://s92.photobucket.com/user/HK94dude/media/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l30/HK94dude/1DB908A6-8C68-4921-9302-5795273ED451_zpshe3jglwt.jpg</a> Looks like 10.5 carbine length piston. Are there different piston lengths? |
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Posted: 8/14/2015 8:20:52 AM EDT
[#50]
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yes. Comes from the factory as a middy. I used a carbine length AR barrel and chopped it along with the piston. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Looks like 10.5 carbine length piston. correct. Not near as front end heavy as before Are there different piston lengths? yes. Comes from the factory as a middy. I used a carbine length AR barrel and chopped it along with the piston. I assume you need a carbine system to get 10.5" bbls? Is this the conversion that Marvin Pitts does? Is anyone talking about making out of the box parts for it? Also, is there anyone making full gas system parts yet? How do people get multiple barrel assemblies, I was under the impression that there were no "spare" assemblies being offered? |
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