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Posted: 2/4/2015 3:25:25 AM EDT
So at Shot Show Remington announced that they will be selling their Remington Defense line commercially now, so maybe dreams do come true.
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Posted: 2/4/2015 3:34:33 AM EDT
[#1]
Why bother? We've been snubbed by them for so long and now since Remington's QC and reputation is in the toilet, they've come groveling.
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Posted: 2/4/2015 3:37:41 AM EDT
[#2]
would have been awesome years ago, I will definitely pass.
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Posted: 2/4/2015 3:41:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
would have been awesome years ago, I will definitely pass. And at the price point magpul hinted before they sold it off. Now, I just don't care enough to help them try to recoup their investment by "allowing" me to buy their gun. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 3:48:31 AM EDT
[#4]
These days you can't have too much confidence in Remington. Who knows, maybe this'll be their r51 of rifles.
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Posted: 2/4/2015 3:52:43 AM EDT
[#5]
I've always liked the Masada concept and will own one some day.
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Posted: 2/4/2015 4:02:58 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why bother? We've been snubbed by them for so long and now since Remington's QC and reputation is in the toilet, they've come groveling. Assuming the gun is as reliable as it should be... This design takes the best features and lessons learned from the last half a century in assault rifle development and molds it all into one gun. Replacement of the AR-15? Definitely not. Go to gun for someone who wants the latest and greatest - and not a fad - yep. SCAR, Tavor, Bushmaster ACR, XCR - they're cute and all but the Remington ACR doesn't just improve on one or two areas of the AR, it improves on every area that can be and does so not bringing flaws of it's own to the table. What makes the Remington ACR such a cutting edge design - at least on paper -Major manufacture market place security -Light weight <7lbs with empty magazine -Slim like the M4 -Folding and adjustable stock - which is solid polymer and robust (looking at you SCAR) -Slim rail system -Extended trigger guard -Proper placement of the magazine release, fire selector, and bolt release - which all are ambidextrous or at least offered in ambidextrous versions -Non-reciprocating and folding charging handle can be used as a forward assist and works with the bolt catch on the trigger guard to allow the operator to lock the bolt back for clearing malfunctions without having to take their firing hand off the grip. Also the charging handle is away from the optics rail (looking at you SCAR) -AR trigger and pistol grip compatability -QD sling swivels built into rail and stock in most recognized placement (SCAR fails hard again in this category) Basically the Remington ACR has all the little details right which add up to make it the most refined AR successor out there. Hopefully the gun runs as well as it is designed on paper |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 4:15:21 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And at the price point magpul hinted before they sold it off. Now, I just don't care enough to help them try to recoup their investment by "allowing" me to buy their gun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
would have been awesome years ago, I will definitely pass. And at the price point magpul hinted before they sold it off. Now, I just don't care enough to help them try to recoup their investment by "allowing" me to buy their gun. If you are looking for another gun to add to the collection, the gun's not for you. This is about small arms evolution development. Example, the Tavor has gotten a lot of attention lately, and in no shape or form am I saying the Tavor is not a cool gun, but it is a FN SCAR kind of cool. A stepping stone. Wake me up when someone makes a bulpup that doesn't handle like a bulpup. In other words, has the magazine release, fire selector, and bolt release in the same spot found on the ACR/XCR - no goofy bulpup controls (I.E. Tavor bolt lock/release and magazine release). Also why not use a AR-15 trigger group so that the hammer simply pushes an independent trigger bar forward instead of a special trigger group pulling a trigger bar that is connected to the hammer? That's when Bulpups will no longer be a novelty, when someone sells a rifle that is only a bulpup in nature of the magazine well being behind the pistol grip, and the gun has none of the queer bulpup attributes you see today. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 4:33:45 AM EDT
[#8]
If they sell these for under $1500, maybe. If they were so great though, then the military would be employing them in some fashion (i.e. why did the SEALS choose HK416's over the ACR?).
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Posted: 2/4/2015 8:18:01 AM EDT
[#9]
I really like my SBR'ed ACR. I'll be the first to admit that Shrubmaster really screwed the pooch with it and that the rifle has poor factory support and virtually no aftermarket other than DIY. But I would buy the RemDef version if it came to market. It keeps everything I like about the gun while adding a better forearm and shaving a pound of weight. What's not to like?
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Posted: 2/4/2015 10:45:56 AM EDT
[#10]
I'll stick with my XCR's. Remington can keep their substandard products.
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Posted: 2/4/2015 10:51:28 AM EDT
[#11]
It was a dream gun a few years ago, now I'm apathetic.
Wake me up when an unmolested Massoud comes up. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 11:08:40 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And at the price point magpul hinted before they sold it off. Now, I just don't care enough to help them try to recoup their investment by "allowing" me to buy their gun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
would have been awesome years ago, I will definitely pass. And at the price point magpul hinted before they sold it off. Now, I just don't care enough to help them try to recoup their investment by "allowing" me to buy their gun. Hinted? They were outright quoting a price point. And those posts were scrubbed shortly after the disastrous unveiling. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 11:41:13 AM EDT
[#13]
Cool. Ill buy. I had a scar and an acr and sold both.
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Posted: 2/4/2015 11:43:20 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are looking for another gun to add to the collection, the gun's not for you. This is about small arms evolution development. Example, the Tavor has gotten a lot of attention lately, and in no shape or form am I saying the Tavor is not a cool gun, but it is a FN SCAR kind of cool. A stepping stone. Wake me up when someone makes a bulpup that doesn't handle like a bulpup. In other words, has the magazine release, fire selector, and bolt release in the same spot found on the ACR/XCR - no goofy bulpup controls (I.E. Tavor bolt lock/release and magazine release). Also why not use a AR-15 trigger group so that the hammer simply pushes an independent trigger bar forward instead of a special trigger group pulling a trigger bar that is connected to the hammer? That's when Bulpups will no longer be a novelty, when someone sells a rifle that is only a bulpup in nature of the magazine well being behind the pistol grip, and the gun has none of the queer bulpup attributes you see today. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
would have been awesome years ago, I will definitely pass. And at the price point magpul hinted before they sold it off. Now, I just don't care enough to help them try to recoup their investment by "allowing" me to buy their gun. If you are looking for another gun to add to the collection, the gun's not for you. This is about small arms evolution development. Example, the Tavor has gotten a lot of attention lately, and in no shape or form am I saying the Tavor is not a cool gun, but it is a FN SCAR kind of cool. A stepping stone. Wake me up when someone makes a bulpup that doesn't handle like a bulpup. In other words, has the magazine release, fire selector, and bolt release in the same spot found on the ACR/XCR - no goofy bulpup controls (I.E. Tavor bolt lock/release and magazine release). Also why not use a AR-15 trigger group so that the hammer simply pushes an independent trigger bar forward instead of a special trigger group pulling a trigger bar that is connected to the hammer? That's when Bulpups will no longer be a novelty, when someone sells a rifle that is only a bulpup in nature of the magazine well being behind the pistol grip, and the gun has none of the queer bulpup attributes you see today. 
"It's all about evolution, but I want everything to be the same!" |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 12:27:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"It's all about evolution, but I want everything to be the same!" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
would have been awesome years ago, I will definitely pass. And at the price point magpul hinted before they sold it off. Now, I just don't care enough to help them try to recoup their investment by "allowing" me to buy their gun. If you are looking for another gun to add to the collection, the gun's not for you. This is about small arms evolution development. Example, the Tavor has gotten a lot of attention lately, and in no shape or form am I saying the Tavor is not a cool gun, but it is a FN SCAR kind of cool. A stepping stone. Wake me up when someone makes a bulpup that doesn't handle like a bulpup. In other words, has the magazine release, fire selector, and bolt release in the same spot found on the ACR/XCR - no goofy bulpup controls (I.E. Tavor bolt lock/release and magazine release). Also why not use a AR-15 trigger group so that the hammer simply pushes an independent trigger bar forward instead of a special trigger group pulling a trigger bar that is connected to the hammer? That's when Bulpups will no longer be a novelty, when someone sells a rifle that is only a bulpup in nature of the magazine well being behind the pistol grip, and the gun has none of the queer bulpup attributes you see today.
"It's all about evolution, but I want everything to be the same!" 
Don't reinvent the wheel, address areas that could be improved. Stoner and his crew got so much right with the AR platform. But the bolt release should be on the trigger guard and charging handle on the sides so you can manipulate the bolt without breaking your firing hand grip |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 12:30:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll stick with my XCR's. Remington can keep their substandard products. Robinson Arms is even worse. Heck you can only purchase their products through a guy Kermit on their forums. Who knows if they will be around 10 years from now. Additionally they use an AK style bolt which I would guess is the root to the XCR-M not being able to hold a candle in accuracy to the Larues and SR-25s |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 12:37:28 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 2/4/2015 12:39:41 PM EDT
[#18]
If they actually release it I will get one. I won't be holding my breath though.
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Posted: 2/4/2015 7:58:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Count me in for one too!
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Posted: 2/4/2015 10:52:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they actually release it I will get one. I won't be holding my breath though. ++ I enjoy my ACR. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 11:20:44 PM EDT
[#21]
They must realize that they are not going to get a government contract.
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Posted: 2/4/2015 11:26:28 PM EDT
[#22]
I think id rather try an ARX 100 with prices approaching $1200.
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Posted: 2/5/2015 12:55:45 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think id rather try an ARX 100 with prices approaching $1200. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think id rather try an ARX 100 with prices approaching $1200. I'd be surprised if these (assuming release) sell for anything less than twice that Quoted:
They must realize that they are not going to get a government contract. Most likely. Even if the ACR is as good as I hope it is, the AR is open source, abundant, and we are talking fairly small improvements. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 1:01:07 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd be surprised if these (assuming release) sell for anything less than twice that Most likely. Even if the ACR is as good as I hope it is, the AR is open source, abundant, and we are talking fairly small improvements. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think id rather try an ARX 100 with prices approaching $1200. I'd be surprised if these (assuming release) sell for anything less than twice that Quoted: They must realize that they are not going to get a government contract. Most likely. Even if the ACR is as good as I hope it is, the AR is open source, abundant, and we are talking fairly small improvements. They have been out for quite a while and the lowest price has been $1200. Constantly see them at $1300.
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Posted: 2/5/2015 8:06:56 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What makes the Remington ACR such a cutting edge design - at least on paper -Major manufacture market place security -Light weight <7lbs with empty magazine -Slim like the M4 -Folding and adjustable stock - which is solid polymer and robust (looking at you SCAR) -Slim rail system -Extended trigger guard -Proper placement of the magazine release, fire selector, and bolt release - which all are ambidextrous or at least offered in ambidextrous versions -Non-reciprocating and folding charging handle can be used as a forward assist and works with the bolt catch on the trigger guard to allow the operator to lock the bolt back for clearing malfunctions without having to take their firing hand off the grip. Also the charging handle is away from the optics rail (looking at you SCAR) -AR trigger and pistol grip compatability -QD sling swivels built into rail and stock in most recognized placement (SCAR fails hard again in this category) Basically the Remington ACR has all the little details right which add up to make it the most refined AR successor out there. Hopefully the gun runs as well as it is designed on paper Feature-wise, the ARX is a little better, & probably at a lower price point (Mg lowers probably aren't cheap). Also doesn't hurt that it is seeing actual field use. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 9:30:27 AM EDT
[#26]
If it's released, the price is reasonable and it's reliable I will probably get one
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Posted: 2/5/2015 9:36:10 AM EDT
[#27]
I've had an ACR for a few years and I like it despite it's shortcomings. I've never had any issues with mine, the weight is really its only negative and it's easily remedied with a lightweight profile barrel. Bushmaster's use of a M4 profile 1/9 barrel was asinine.
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Posted: 2/5/2015 9:58:48 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Robinson Arms is even worse. Heck you can only purchase their products through a guy Kermit on their forums. Who knows if they will be around 10 years from now. Additionally they use an AK style bolt which I would guess is the root to the XCR-M not being able to hold a candle in accuracy to the Larues and SR-25s Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll stick with my XCR's. Remington can keep their substandard products. Robinson Arms is even worse. Heck you can only purchase their products through a guy Kermit on their forums. Who knows if they will be around 10 years from now. Additionally they use an AK style bolt which I would guess is the root to the XCR-M not being able to hold a candle in accuracy to the Larues and SR-25s Over 2,000 rounds now through one XCR without once cleaning it other than throwing some mobile 1 in it from time to using the cheapest, lowest cost russian ammo you can find. Not one failure at setting 3 on the gas, and the worst I can say is from time to time it won't throw the brass as far as I'd like, but still running. Yes, XCR customer service can suck at times (right now, it's actually pretty good lol), but if you have all the parts, any gun company customers service can suck at times. Nate in Florida is also a FFL dealer who supports the product line pretty well. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 11:42:11 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Feature-wise, the ARX is a little better, & probably at a lower price point (Mg lowers probably aren't cheap). Also doesn't hurt that it is seeing actual field use. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What makes the Remington ACR such a cutting edge design - at least on paper -Major manufacture market place security -Light weight <7lbs with empty magazine -Slim like the M4 -Folding and adjustable stock - which is solid polymer and robust (looking at you SCAR) -Slim rail system -Extended trigger guard -Proper placement of the magazine release, fire selector, and bolt release - which all are ambidextrous or at least offered in ambidextrous versions -Non-reciprocating and folding charging handle can be used as a forward assist and works with the bolt catch on the trigger guard to allow the operator to lock the bolt back for clearing malfunctions without having to take their firing hand off the grip. Also the charging handle is away from the optics rail (looking at you SCAR) -AR trigger and pistol grip compatability -QD sling swivels built into rail and stock in most recognized placement (SCAR fails hard again in this category) Basically the Remington ACR has all the little details right which add up to make it the most refined AR successor out there. Hopefully the gun runs as well as it is designed on paper Feature-wise, the ARX is a little better, & probably at a lower price point (Mg lowers probably aren't cheap). Also doesn't hurt that it is seeing actual field use. It's too bulky of a gun for what it is and the rail-bore height is kind of ridiculous. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 12:42:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's too bulky of a gun for what it is and the rail-bore height is kind of ridiculous. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What makes the Remington ACR such a cutting edge design - at least on paper -Major manufacture market place security -Light weight <7lbs with empty magazine -Slim like the M4 -Folding and adjustable stock - which is solid polymer and robust (looking at you SCAR) -Slim rail system -Extended trigger guard -Proper placement of the magazine release, fire selector, and bolt release - which all are ambidextrous or at least offered in ambidextrous versions -Non-reciprocating and folding charging handle can be used as a forward assist and works with the bolt catch on the trigger guard to allow the operator to lock the bolt back for clearing malfunctions without having to take their firing hand off the grip. Also the charging handle is away from the optics rail (looking at you SCAR) -AR trigger and pistol grip compatability -QD sling swivels built into rail and stock in most recognized placement (SCAR fails hard again in this category) Basically the Remington ACR has all the little details right which add up to make it the most refined AR successor out there. Hopefully the gun runs as well as it is designed on paper Feature-wise, the ARX is a little better, & probably at a lower price point (Mg lowers probably aren't cheap). Also doesn't hurt that it is seeing actual field use. It's too bulky of a gun for what it is and the rail-bore height is kind of ridiculous. Appearances are deceiving & opinions are varied. That said, having handled one, I was okay with its dimensions. Has to be enough material in place to do the job, & no way to keep it < 7# with a QC bbl assy with poly-based receiver. ACR pared weight by ditching the QC bbl & opted for a Mg material lower. Different strokes... Rail-over-bore height will always be taller when a top-side piston is in the op design. Both rifles have greater sight-over-bore than a DI AR. Doesn't phase me. FWIW, this is what the ACR should be, & I'd like to see it in the marketplace. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 1:41:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Robinson Arms is even worse. Heck you can only purchase their products through a guy Kermit on their forums. Who knows if they will be around 10 years from now. Additionally they use an AK style bolt which I would guess is the root to the XCR-M not being able to hold a candle in accuracy to the Larues and SR-25s Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll stick with my XCR's. Remington can keep their substandard products. Robinson Arms is even worse. Heck you can only purchase their products through a guy Kermit on their forums. Who knows if they will be around 10 years from now. Additionally they use an AK style bolt which I would guess is the root to the XCR-M not being able to hold a candle in accuracy to the Larues and SR-25s I thought we were talking about fighting rifles, not bench shooters...? |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 2:08:22 PM EDT
[#32]
You are correct. The best source for 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 300 blk out barrels and bolts for the XCR is Kermit. You can call Bushmaster directly for the same caliber conversions for the ACR, but they do not make any.
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Posted: 2/5/2015 4:36:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought we were talking about fighting rifles, not bench shooters...? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll stick with my XCR's. Remington can keep their substandard products. Robinson Arms is even worse. Heck you can only purchase their products through a guy Kermit on their forums. Who knows if they will be around 10 years from now. Additionally they use an AK style bolt which I would guess is the root to the XCR-M not being able to hold a candle in accuracy to the Larues and SR-25s I thought we were talking about fighting rifles, not bench shooters...? In that breath, exactly how many ACR's are in uncle sam's hands? LMAO Mil spec is over rated. Colt sucked in the 80's when I was in, and talking to someone while in Oklahoma who just got back from the sand box, apparently things haven't changed much in 30 years lol |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 6:32:47 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really like my SBR'ed ACR. I'll be the first to admit that Shrubmaster really screwed the pooch with it and that the rifle has poor factory support and virtually no aftermarket other than DIY. But I would buy the RemDef version if it came to market. It keeps everything I like about the gun while adding a better forearm and shaving a pound of weight. What's not to like? What's the difference between the two. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 7:27:39 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In that breath, exactly how many ACR's are in uncle sam's hands? LMAO Mil spec is over rated. Colt sucked in the 80's when I was in, and talking to someone while in Oklahoma who just got back from the sand box, apparently things haven't changed much in 30 years lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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I'll stick with my XCR's. Remington can keep their substandard products. Robinson Arms is even worse. Heck you can only purchase their products through a guy Kermit on their forums. Who knows if they will be around 10 years from now. Additionally they use an AK style bolt which I would guess is the root to the XCR-M not being able to hold a candle in accuracy to the Larues and SR-25s I thought we were talking about fighting rifles, not bench shooters...? In that breath, exactly how many ACR's are in uncle sam's hands? LMAO Mil spec is over rated. Colt sucked in the 80's when I was in, and talking to someone while in Oklahoma who just got back from the sand box, apparently things haven't changed much in 30 years lol I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying here. The OP is trying to make the case that the ACR is a better fighting rifle than the M4, but then he compares the XCR and its accuracy to a couple SASS rifles (sure, our people are "fighting" with them, but I doubt there is a lot of door kicking being done with an M110). When we are talking about infantry rifle accurary, 2 - 2.5 MOA is perfectly acceptable. With that in mind, I wouldn't be so quick to write off a rifle just because it has a 3-lug bolt as I have seen the Sig 556R shoot groups right within that accuracy range. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 9:13:26 PM EDT
[#36]
Are they indicating what MSRP will be?
I have to be honest: I wouldn't mind having one, but price is going to be a pretty important consideration, unless it improves greatly on my go-to AR. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 9:19:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When we are talking about infantry rifle accurary, 2 - 2.5 MOA is perfectly acceptable. I'd go as far to say that 4 MOA is perfectly acceptable. Paper targets rarely shoot back. |
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Posted: 2/5/2015 9:50:06 PM EDT
[#38]
Remington QC has gone to shit. The 700 has become something that is a shameful disgrace.
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Posted: 2/5/2015 10:28:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Robinson Arms is even worse. Heck you can only purchase their products through a guy Kermit on their forums. Who knows if they will be around 10 years from now. Additionally they use an AK style bolt which I would guess is the root to the XCR-M not being able to hold a candle in accuracy to the Larues and SR-25s Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'll stick with my XCR's. Remington can keep their substandard products. Robinson Arms is even worse. Heck you can only purchase their products through a guy Kermit on their forums. Who knows if they will be around 10 years from now. Additionally they use an AK style bolt which I would guess is the root to the XCR-M not being able to hold a candle in accuracy to the Larues and SR-25s |
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Posted: 2/6/2015 12:00:29 AM EDT
[#40]
If Remington makes it like the one in the picture I'll buy one.
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Posted: 2/6/2015 12:26:14 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People have been saying RA will be out of business anytime now since 1999. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll stick with my XCR's. Remington can keep their substandard products. Robinson Arms is even worse. Heck you can only purchase their products through a guy Kermit on their forums. Who knows if they will be around 10 years from now. Additionally they use an AK style bolt which I would guess is the root to the XCR-M not being able to hold a candle in accuracy to the Larues and SR-25s Doing just okay enough to stay alive is not something that makes me run to give money to you. Also don't care for a company that is near-nonexistent unless you know how to play |
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Posted: 2/6/2015 12:35:31 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying here. The OP is trying to make the case that the ACR is a better fighting rifle than the M4, but then he compares the XCR and its accuracy to a couple SASS rifles (sure, our people are "fighting" with them, but I doubt there is a lot of door kicking being done with an M110). When we are talking about infantry rifle accurary, 2 - 2.5 MOA is perfectly acceptable. With that in mind, I wouldn't be so quick to write off a rifle just because it has a 3-lug bolt as I have seen the Sig 556R shoot groups right within that accuracy range. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll stick with my XCR's. Remington can keep their substandard products. Robinson Arms is even worse. Heck you can only purchase their products through a guy Kermit on their forums. Who knows if they will be around 10 years from now. Additionally they use an AK style bolt which I would guess is the root to the XCR-M not being able to hold a candle in accuracy to the Larues and SR-25s I thought we were talking about fighting rifles, not bench shooters...? In that breath, exactly how many ACR's are in uncle sam's hands? LMAO Mil spec is over rated. Colt sucked in the 80's when I was in, and talking to someone while in Oklahoma who just got back from the sand box, apparently things haven't changed much in 30 years lol I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying here. The OP is trying to make the case that the ACR is a better fighting rifle than the M4, but then he compares the XCR and its accuracy to a couple SASS rifles (sure, our people are "fighting" with them, but I doubt there is a lot of door kicking being done with an M110). When we are talking about infantry rifle accurary, 2 - 2.5 MOA is perfectly acceptable. With that in mind, I wouldn't be so quick to write off a rifle just because it has a 3-lug bolt as I have seen the Sig 556R shoot groups right within that accuracy range. I think you're missing what I was saying there. The only reason I addressed the XCR is because someone brought it up. The only reason I started talking about the .308 caliber is because I wanted to highlight one downside of the XCR is the AK bolt design which most likely leads to limitations in accuracy. I agree wholeheartedly that for a modern "assault rifle", 2-3 MOA is perfectly fine, but where I was getting at was an SPR or Dual purpose .308 versions. The ACR got it right in that the bolt is based on the AR-15 design which gives the platform the potential to be very accurate if need be for a specific purpose. In terms of reliability, it's pretty well understood that you gain no added reliability with an AK pattern bolt under most - if not all - practical circumstances |
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Posted: 2/6/2015 12:41:00 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are they indicating what MSRP will be? I have to be honest: I wouldn't mind having one, but price is going to be a pretty important consideration, unless it improves greatly on my go-to AR. No mention but I would guess 2K-3K for the first couple years. Value wise, no way would the ACR improve enough (assuming reliability on par or better) to make you dump your AR. Really the big upgrades would be the modular barrel system, folding stock, and faster bolt manipulation controls. |
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Posted: 2/6/2015 12:48:34 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the difference between the two. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I really like my SBR'ed ACR. I'll be the first to admit that Shrubmaster really screwed the pooch with it and that the rifle has poor factory support and virtually no aftermarket other than DIY. But I would buy the RemDef version if it came to market. It keeps everything I like about the gun while adding a better forearm and shaving a pound of weight. What's not to like? What's the difference between the two. The Remington design allows you to put any AR-15 pistol grip on it, the Remington is a pound lighter, 1/7 barrel twist, large sized controls, slim modular handguard, and a folding charging handle. Also Remington keeps featuring their version in like a burnt bronze color - sexy Remington 
Bushmaster 
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Posted: 2/6/2015 12:56:44 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They must realize that they are not going to get a government contract. Wanna bet!!! 
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Posted: 2/6/2015 1:11:38 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No mention but I would guess 2K-3K for the first couple years. Value wise, no way would the ACR improve enough (assuming reliability on par or better) to make you dump your AR. Really the big upgrades would be the modular barrel system, folding stock, and faster bolt manipulation controls. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are they indicating what MSRP will be? I have to be honest: I wouldn't mind having one, but price is going to be a pretty important consideration, unless it improves greatly on my go-to AR. No mention but I would guess 2K-3K for the first couple years. Value wise, no way would the ACR improve enough (assuming reliability on par or better) to make you dump your AR. Really the big upgrades would be the modular barrel system, folding stock, and faster bolt manipulation controls. All things that the Beretta ARX 100 have for a little over half the cost. I imagine the ACR will be a tad more accurate due to the quick change barrel on the ARX though.
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Posted: 2/6/2015 1:46:02 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All things that the Beretta ARX 100 have for a little over half the cost. I imagine the ACR will be a tad more accurate due to the quick change barrel on the ARX though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are they indicating what MSRP will be? I have to be honest: I wouldn't mind having one, but price is going to be a pretty important consideration, unless it improves greatly on my go-to AR. No mention but I would guess 2K-3K for the first couple years. Value wise, no way would the ACR improve enough (assuming reliability on par or better) to make you dump your AR. Really the big upgrades would be the modular barrel system, folding stock, and faster bolt manipulation controls. All things that the Beretta ARX 100 have for a little over half the cost. I imagine the ACR will be a tad more accurate due to the quick change barrel on the ARX though. No, the ARX does not have it all for a lot less. The ACR is much much more slim, has a first class modular handguard, can take any AR-15 pistol grip, can take any AR-15 trigger, has QD sling integration, can take any AR-15 magazine, has a more robust stock with height adjustment, has a much lower optic rail to bore height, and the charging handle is folding and up front where it should be. The ARX is a really nice gun, but not to the ACR level in terms of user interface. |
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Posted: 2/6/2015 1:49:43 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wanna bet!!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They must realize that they are not going to get a government contract. Wanna bet!!! 
Like most things, starts with the super secret squirrels and trickles down. Now Poland is servicing their version of the gun |
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Posted: 2/6/2015 2:02:51 AM EDT
[#49]
I'm in for a factory SBR in FDE for under $1400.
 Or factory short barrels and a price under $1200.
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Posted: 2/6/2015 2:25:37 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are they indicating what MSRP will be? I have to be honest: I wouldn't mind having one, but price is going to be a pretty important consideration, unless it improves greatly on my go-to AR. No mention but I would guess 2K-3K for the first couple years. Value wise, no way would the ACR improve enough (assuming reliability on par or better) to make you dump your AR. Really the big upgrades would be the modular barrel system, folding stock, and faster bolt manipulation controls. All things that the Beretta ARX 100 have for a little over half the cost. I imagine the ACR will be a tad more accurate due to the quick change barrel on the ARX though. No, the ARX does not have it all for a lot less. The ACR is much much more slim, has a first class modular handguard, can take any AR-15 pistol grip, can take any AR-15 trigger, has QD sling integration, can take any AR-15 magazine, has a more robust stock with height adjustment, has a much lower optic rail to bore height, and the charging handle is folding and up front where it should be. The ARX is a really nice gun, but not to the ACR level in terms of user interface. Don't really care about the pistol grip. Ar15 triggers is a definite plus but certainly not a deal breaker. First class modular hand guard? Hmmm. Anyways, the ARX 100 is made by a competent company so that is definitely a plus. I take that first one back.... It would actually be pretty nice to have AR15 pistol grips. The barrel change on the ARX 100 is also pretty awesome. I do agree the charging handle on the ACR is in a better spot but it certainly isn't a deal breaker. |
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