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Posted: 4/24/2014 5:47:07 AM EDT
[#1]
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US ARMY pictures. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They work for cool guy pictures. US ARMY pictures. My point still stands. They are a pain in the ass to work on. The sage stock isn't as durable as it should be. It's way too heavy. And it still has all the drawbacks of any M14 |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 5:48:09 AM EDT
[#2]
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This. They are not comparable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Apples and oranges. They have different roles. +1 Although I've seen a couple socoms set up to multi task that were awfully darn sweet. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 5:48:23 AM EDT
[#3]
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They are problematic, and the sage stocks are a pain in the ass to remove for cleaning with the ridiculous amount of screws in the damn things. ETA: the screws tend to come loose as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They work for cool guy pictures. US ARMY pictures. They are problematic, and the sage stocks are a pain in the ass to remove for cleaning with the ridiculous amount of screws in the damn things. ETA: the screws tend to come loose as well. Yeah, you're not supposed to remove the action from the stock for cleaning. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 5:50:17 AM EDT
[#4]
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I'm good with my M1 Garand. It shoots farther and hits harder. It also has those nifty black tipped rounds still available. I do have a couple of those cute little AR15s but they are for the women and children. I was going to post this. If SHTF and all I could get in my hands was a 65 year old M1 garand and a couple bandaliers of clippped ammo I would not feel all that disadvantaged. Low light and indoor work would be an issue compared to a carbine with NV. 8 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger, real deal AP available, super fast reload. (remember your empty self ejects, all you do is shove the next one in and help the bolt forward) Back on topic the M1a/M14 is long and cumbersome too in it's original as issued length. I found them quite reliable generally. I've no major issues other than SAInc. sending poorly machined chambers out the door. Rookie work looking at it, took them 3 barrels to get it done right. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 5:50:56 AM EDT
[#5]
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Yeah, you're not supposed to remove the action from the stock for cleaning. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They work for cool guy pictures. US ARMY pictures. They are problematic, and the sage stocks are a pain in the ass to remove for cleaning with the ridiculous amount of screws in the damn things. ETA: the screws tend to come loose as well. Yeah, you're not supposed to remove the action from the stock for cleaning. Dirt and sand get everywhere... |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 6:13:52 AM EDT
[#6]
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Dirt and sand get everywhere... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They work for cool guy pictures. US ARMY pictures. They are problematic, and the sage stocks are a pain in the ass to remove for cleaning with the ridiculous amount of screws in the damn things. ETA: the screws tend to come loose as well. Yeah, you're not supposed to remove the action from the stock for cleaning. Dirt and sand get everywhere... True, but according to the guys at TACOM-RI, you the operator, are not supposed to remove the action from the stock for cleaning. Operator disassembly of the M14 EBR is limited to cleaning of the external part of the stock and weapon and disassembly of the gas system and cleaning of the gas piston assembly. The M14 barreled action and forward rail should not be removed from the stock at the operator level. Cleaning of the M14 EBR does not require the weapon to be disassembled except for the gas plug and trigger mechanism. Any maintenance that requires the barreled action to be removed from the stock should be done only by a 45B level armorer M14 ENHANCED BATTLE RIFLE (EBR), 7.62MM SUPPLEMENT TO TM 9-1005-223-10 Evidently, operators that insist on messing with the screws, and removing the action from the chassis create a ridiculous amount of needless headaches. . |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 12:18:44 PM EDT
[#7]
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True, but according to the guys at TACOM-RI, you the operator, are not supposed to remove the action from the stock for cleaning. Operator disassembly of the M14 EBR is limited to cleaning of the external part of the stock and weapon and disassembly of the gas system and cleaning of the gas piston assembly. The M14 barreled action and forward rail should not be removed from the stock at the operator level. Cleaning of the M14 EBR does not require the weapon to be disassembled except for the gas plug and trigger mechanism. Any maintenance that requires the barreled action to be removed from the stock should be done only by a 45B level armorer M14 ENHANCED BATTLE RIFLE (EBR), 7.62MM SUPPLEMENT TO TM 9-1005-223-10 Evidently, operators that insist on messing with the screws, and removing the action from the chassis create a ridiculous amount of needless headaches. The fact that the operator can't clean everything that needs to be cleaned at his level is a bigger problem than the operator removing the action from the chassis. I'll take a Mk11/M110 over a Mk14 any day of the week if I have to have a precision 7.62mm rifle. That's from both an operator and maintainers perspective. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 12:44:25 PM EDT
[#8]
In true arfcom fashion I have both. I like both a lot but they are completely different creatures. The 14 is very much an old school platform. Hard to work on, hard to get optimal accuracy out of, heavy and not easy to scope. The AR is the lego of the firearms world, just about everything is plug and play. An AR will out shoot a 14. Period. A 14 can be made very accurate but its a black art and a dying one at that. Most standard grade 14's are a 3 to 4 MOA rifle. With the right ammo and the right shooter 2 MOA. Most AR's will go 2 MOA right out of the box and with any luck at all can go 1 MOA. Almost nobody runs a 14 in hi power anymore.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 1:32:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Freerider, what exactly is it that you have a problem cleaning?
From my decade of maintenance experience with the EBR, I know for a fact that everything can be cleaned easily without removing the action from the chassis. All things being equal, the M14 requires cleaning less often than the other rifle you mentioned. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 1:40:04 PM EDT
[#10]
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I'll take a Mk11/M110 over a Mk14 any day of the week if I have to have a precision 7.62mm rifle. That's from both an operator and maintainers perspective. This is consistent with every professional user of both guns that I've ever talked to. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 1:51:09 PM EDT
[#11]
again...people here are not distinguishing combat from SHTF. 2 different things
combat - you have more targets, more support, human targets SHTF - less targets, less support, human and animal targets I have seen M14s in Afghanistan in 2011 and 2010. They all had leupold scopes and SAGE stocks |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 1:58:30 PM EDT
[#12]
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Freerider, what exactly is it that you have a problem cleaning? From my decade of maintenance experience with the EBR, I know for a fact that everything can be cleaned easily without removing the action from the chassis. All things being equal, the M14 requires cleaning less often than the other rifle you mentioned. I personally don't have a problem cleaning anything, since I haven't been issued an EBR in a while, and when I was I was able to strip them all the way down. I occasionally work on them now, but that's rare, since virtually all of our precision rifle needs are filled by a Mk11 or M110. I think it's a problem that a rifle that may see a wide variety of environments including sand, dirt, saltwater, snow, etc cannot be completely cleaned by the operator. I understand that on people's personally owned rifles, that isn't a problem. In my world, it is a problem, and I don't think it's acceptable for an issued rifle |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 2:31:12 AM EDT
[#13]
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I understand that on people's personally owned rifles, that isn't a problem. In my world, it is a problem, and I don't think it's acceptable for an issued rifle You are not alone in thinking this... |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 4:16:52 AM EDT
[#14]
I'm not an operator, nor do I want to be one. With that said, I'd take my M1A over any AR any day of the week. I got my M1A during the AW ban and it shot so well, I ditched all of my 5.56 trash and made a bundle and I have no regrets.
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Posted: 4/25/2014 7:23:00 AM EDT
[#15]
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I understand that on people's personally owned rifles, that isn't a problem. In my world, it is a problem, and I don't think it's acceptable for an issued rifle I choose to follow the recommendations contained in the supplement, and according to the man that wrote the ARMY supplement I've referenced, following the cleaning guidelines contained within is completely acceptable in both worlds, yours & ours. Returning to the topic: is the M1A a viable alternative to a AR15? YES, yes it is, but I also think the AR line are good companion weapons because it seems that everybody and their sister owns one 
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Posted: 4/25/2014 8:00:37 AM EDT
[#16]
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IMO no. The M1A is a great battle rifle but ammo is heavier, more expensive. The rifle itself is harder to work on. I can quickly and easily replace any part on an AR without any special tools other than a barrel wrench. This country is awash in spare parts, mags, etc for the AR platform. Ideally get both but if its one or the other go with the AR. This. I used to be a big M14 fan back when the prevailing thought of the day was that the .223 was an ineffective "poodle shooter", but realistically, the AR15 is a superior weapon in just about every way. The AR can be just as lethal, is a lot lighter and handier, has a higher capacity, lower recoil, common availability for spare parts and ammo. The only thing the M14 will do better is penetrate heavy cover and give you a slightly longer range depending on ammo. However, in 99% of the cases, a random barrier that would stop a 5.56 would also stop a 7.62 and vice versa with if a barrier is permeable to one round, it will usually be for both. Where I live, long range is not really a factor, but even then the furthest effective range of an M14 with regular ball ammo due to it's inherent accuracy isn't going to be much more than 600 yards. Not really any further than an AR with ball. With specialty both can shoot further out, but at those ranges, unless you're shooting at full profile stationary targets, it's going to be difficult to hit targets moving while keeping a low profile and seeking cover. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 10:08:57 AM EDT
[#17]
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<snip--about the M1A> They get left in the truck. If I am going to carry something that weighs 14 pounds it's going to feed from a belt. This is important. My fiancee is 5' 3" and is not going to be carrying a 14 pound rifle for any length of time. A 7 lb AR in 5.56 or 6.x (or 300 BLK if that's what floats your boat) offers much more comfort and utility and is useful for both of us. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 10:12:15 AM EDT
[#18]
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This is important. My fiancee is 5' 3" and is not going to be carrying a 14 pound rifle for any length of time. A 7 lb AR in 5.56 or 6.x (or 300 BLK if that's what floats your boat) offers much more comfort and utility and is useful for both of us. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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<snip--about the M1A> They get left in the truck. If I am going to carry something that weighs 14 pounds it's going to feed from a belt. This is important. My fiancee is 5' 3" and is not going to be carrying a 14 pound rifle for any length of time. A 7 lb AR in 5.56 or 6.x (or 300 BLK if that's what floats your boat) offers much more comfort and utility and is useful for both of us. They don't all have to be EBRs ... I have a nice M14 that weighs less than 8 lb. 
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Posted: 4/25/2014 10:25:01 AM EDT
[#19]
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I choose to follow the recommendations contained in the supplement, and according to the man that wrote the ARMY supplement I've referenced, following the cleaning guidelines contained within is completely acceptable in both worlds, yours & ours. Returning to the topic: is the M1A a viable alternative to a AR15? YES, yes it is, but I also think the AR line are good companion weapons because it seems that everybody and their sister owns one
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I understand that on people's personally owned rifles, that isn't a problem. In my world, it is a problem, and I don't think it's acceptable for an issued rifle I choose to follow the recommendations contained in the supplement, and according to the man that wrote the ARMY supplement I've referenced, following the cleaning guidelines contained within is completely acceptable in both worlds, yours & ours. Returning to the topic: is the M1A a viable alternative to a AR15? YES, yes it is, but I also think the AR line are good companion weapons because it seems that everybody and their sister owns one
I'm not saying the M14 is obsolete, just that it surpassed in virtually every category by the M16 series and it's civilian counterparts. Regarding the maintenance thing on the Mk14's, it's acceptable up tothe point of dirty and corroded parts under the chassis. It sucks in a wet, humid, or ddusty environment to not be able to clean things that should be. More problems arise (especially with corrosion) when operators can't clean everything than the operators just pulling the action out of the chassis |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 10:35:11 AM EDT
[#20]
As noted above, I don't think you can compare the M14 family to the AR-15 family. Maybe better the AR10 to M14/M1A.
Both are excellent rifles. AR15 is much more modular, there are more of them around, many aftermarket parts, cheaper ammo. But as noted, the M1A is not a slouch. Get one with significant numbers of GI parts if you can. Which ever one you have, shoot it often and enjoy! If you can afford, get both! |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 11:08:51 AM EDT
[#21]
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They don't all have to be EBRs ... I have a nice M14 that weighs less than 8 lb. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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<snip--about the M1A> They get left in the truck. If I am going to carry something that weighs 14 pounds it's going to feed from a belt. This is important. My fiancee is 5' 3" and is not going to be carrying a 14 pound rifle for any length of time. A 7 lb AR in 5.56 or 6.x (or 300 BLK if that's what floats your boat) offers much more comfort and utility and is useful for both of us. They don't all have to be EBRs ... I have a nice M14 that weighs less than 8 lb. What does it weigh with a light, optic and 120 rounds of ball? |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 11:15:10 AM EDT
[#22]
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What does it weigh with a light, optic and 120 rounds of ball? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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<snip--about the M1A> They get left in the truck. If I am going to carry something that weighs 14 pounds it's going to feed from a belt. This is important. My fiancee is 5' 3" and is not going to be carrying a 14 pound rifle for any length of time. A 7 lb AR in 5.56 or 6.x (or 300 BLK if that's what floats your boat) offers much more comfort and utility and is useful for both of us. They don't all have to be EBRs ... I have a nice M14 that weighs less than 8 lb. What does it weigh with a light, optic and 120 rounds of ball? Yeah, a stripped M4 doesn't weigh much at all. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 11:52:29 AM EDT
[#23]
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What does it weigh with a light, optic and 120 rounds of ball? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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<snip--about the M1A> They get left in the truck. If I am going to carry something that weighs 14 pounds it's going to feed from a belt. This is important. My fiancee is 5' 3" and is not going to be carrying a 14 pound rifle for any length of time. A 7 lb AR in 5.56 or 6.x (or 300 BLK if that's what floats your boat) offers much more comfort and utility and is useful for both of us. They don't all have to be EBRs ... I have a nice M14 that weighs less than 8 lb. What does it weigh with a light, optic and 120 rounds of ball? That's easy, under 8 lb PLUS whatever the light, optic and rounds weigh 
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Posted: 4/25/2014 12:00:39 PM EDT
[#24]
It's clear that more problems arise when operators fail to follow instructions and start pulling the action out of the chassis. The things that need to be cleaned on the M14 EBR can be cleaned in the field without removing the action from the chassis. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 12:13:42 PM EDT
[#25]
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That's easy, under 8 lb PLUS whatever the light, optic and rounds weigh
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<snip--about the M1A> They get left in the truck. If I am going to carry something that weighs 14 pounds it's going to feed from a belt. This is important. My fiancee is 5' 3" and is not going to be carrying a 14 pound rifle for any length of time. A 7 lb AR in 5.56 or 6.x (or 300 BLK if that's what floats your boat) offers much more comfort and utility and is useful for both of us. They don't all have to be EBRs ... I have a nice M14 that weighs less than 8 lb. What does it weigh with a light, optic and 120 rounds of ball? That's easy, under 8 lb PLUS whatever the light, optic and rounds weigh
My AR is 8 pounds with everything and 30 rounds loaded in it. 
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Posted: 4/25/2014 12:45:19 PM EDT
[#26]
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My AR is 8 pounds with everything and 30 rounds loaded in it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A 7 lb AR in 5.56 or 6.x (or 300 BLK if that's what floats your boat) offers much more comfort and utility and is useful for both of us. They don't all have to be EBRs ... I have a nice M14 that weighs less than 8 lb. What does it weigh with a light, optic and 120 rounds of ball? That's easy, under 8 lb PLUS whatever the light, optic and rounds weigh
My AR is 8 pounds with everything and 30 rounds loaded in it. Another good reason to own at least one of each 
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Posted: 4/25/2014 12:52:37 PM EDT
[#27]
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It's clear that more problems arise when operators fail to follow instructions and start pulling the action out of the chassis. The things that need to be cleaned on the M14 EBR can be cleaned in the field without removing the action from the chassis. The M14 is a fine rifle. There are much better rifles on the market, but it's still capable. The EBR can stay in the armory (preferably someone elses). It was a stopgap rifle shoehorned into the precision rifle role while more capable replacements were procured. It has major drawbacks and few advantages over its competitors in the class. It's not the end all be all of 7.62mm rifles. And no matter what you say, I know for a fact the action needs to be removed from the chassis to keep it in decent condition when exposed to adverse conditions on a regular basis ETA: I'm not going to argue anymore. You have your opinions, I have mine. We obviously aren't going to change them, so I'm done. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 1:06:01 PM EDT
[#28]
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... no matter what you say, I know for a fact the action needs to be removed from the chassis ... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's clear that more problems arise when operators fail to follow instructions and start pulling the action out of the chassis. The things that need to be cleaned on the M14 EBR can be cleaned in the field without removing the action from the chassis. ... no matter what you say, I know for a fact the action needs to be removed from the chassis ... I have been cleaning my EBRs without removing the action for 10 years, and I have experienced zero problems. Ignore the supplement to TM 9-1005-223-10 at your own risk. "Operator disassembly of the M14 EBR is limited to cleaning of the external part of the stock and weapon and disassembly of the gas system and cleaning of the gas piston assembly. The M14 barreled action and forward rail should not be removed from the stock at the operator level. Cleaning of the M14 EBR does not require the weapon to be disassembled except for the gas plug and trigger mechanism. Any maintenance that requires the barreled action to be removed from the stock should be done only by a 45B level armorer. M14 ENHANCED BATTLE RIFLE (EBR), 7.62MM SUPPLEMENT TO TM 9-1005-223-10" |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 1:30:01 PM EDT
[#29]
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I have been cleaning my EBRs without removing the action for 10 years, and I have experienced zero problems. Ignore the supplement to TM 9-1005-223-10 at your own risk. "Operator disassembly of the M14 EBR is limited to cleaning of the external part of the stock and weapon and disassembly of the gas system and cleaning of the gas piston assembly. The M14 barreled action and forward rail should not be removed from the stock at the operator level. Cleaning of the M14 EBR does not require the weapon to be disassembled except for the gas plug and trigger mechanism. Any maintenance that requires the barreled action to be removed from the stock should be done only by a 45B level armorer. M14 ENHANCED BATTLE RIFLE (EBR), 7.62MM SUPPLEMENT TO TM 9-1005-223-10" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's clear that more problems arise when operators fail to follow instructions and start pulling the action out of the chassis. The things that need to be cleaned on the M14 EBR can be cleaned in the field without removing the action from the chassis. ... no matter what you say, I know for a fact the action needs to be removed from the chassis ... I have been cleaning my EBRs without removing the action for 10 years, and I have experienced zero problems. Ignore the supplement to TM 9-1005-223-10 at your own risk. "Operator disassembly of the M14 EBR is limited to cleaning of the external part of the stock and weapon and disassembly of the gas system and cleaning of the gas piston assembly. The M14 barreled action and forward rail should not be removed from the stock at the operator level. Cleaning of the M14 EBR does not require the weapon to be disassembled except for the gas plug and trigger mechanism. Any maintenance that requires the barreled action to be removed from the stock should be done only by a 45B level armorer. M14 ENHANCED BATTLE RIFLE (EBR), 7.62MM SUPPLEMENT TO TM 9-1005-223-10" Ahhhhh fuckit. I'm back. What the manual says is one thing. The real world is completely different. I'm personally not ignoring the TM at all, since I'm an authorized maintainer. I wasn't ignoring it when I was issued one as well, since I was an authorized maintainer then. I get it. You have a major hardon for the EBR. Real world experience shows they aren't all they are cracked up to be. You'll find that most serious users reserve them for cool guy pictures, and use the stuff that works better for real world use. The Mk14 family fulfilled it's purpose. Let's move it on from military service. Personal ownership is a different story. That's all personal preference. Just don't confuse opinions and preferences of bench shooters with experienced observations of both operators and maintainers in the real world. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 1:35:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Mk14s are the battleships of the small arms world.
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Posted: 4/25/2014 1:44:26 PM EDT
[#31]
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I'm personally not ignoring the TM at all, since I'm an authorized maintainer. I wasn't when I was issued one as well, since I was an authorized maintainer then. And the beat goes on... 45B level armorer? TM not written for the real world? There are no less than 8 small screws that must be removed in order to pull the action from the chassis. Once you have cleaned the action, you have to find all of those little screws and torque them correctly. There is no reason to do this in the field - none. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 1:45:33 PM EDT
[#32]
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Mk14s are the battleships of the small arms world.
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Posted: 4/25/2014 1:54:51 PM EDT
[#33]
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And the beat goes on... 45B level armorer? TM not written for the real world? There are no less than 8 small screws that must be removed in order to pull the action from the chassis. Once you have cleaned the action, you have to find all of those little screws and torque them correctly. There is no reason to do this in the field - none. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm personally not ignoring the TM at all, since I'm an authorized maintainer. I wasn't when I was issued one as well, since I was an authorized maintainer then. And the beat goes on... 45B level armorer? TM not written for the real world? There are no less than 8 small screws that must be removed in order to pull the action from the chassis. Once you have cleaned the action, you have to find all of those little screws and torque them correctly. There is no reason to do this in the field - none. If I was in the Army, Army MOS's and titles would apply. I've removed the action from the chassis many times. I'm well familiar with what is involved. There may not be a reason to do it in the field, but upon return from the field, it is absolutely necessary if exposed to adverse conditions. And it's ridiculous that the design is such that the operator cannot conduct all of the maintenance necessary at thier level. Now I'm really done with this pissing match. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 1:58:31 PM EDT
[#34]
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Mk14s are the battleships of the small arms world. So too expensive and not capable enough for the modern battlefield? Or were you leaning a different direction
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Posted: 4/25/2014 2:03:03 PM EDT
[#35]
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Now I'm really done with this pissing match. I get it. You have a major hardon for the M110. BTW, the TM was not written by a bench shooter. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 2:04:09 PM EDT
[#36]
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So too expensive and not capable enough for the modern battlefield? Or were you leaning a different direction Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Mk14s are the battleships of the small arms world. So too expensive and not capable enough for the modern battlefield? Or were you leaning a different direction Nope, you got it.
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Posted: 4/25/2014 2:04:27 PM EDT
[#37]
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is the M1A a viable alternative to a AR15? Yes, it is. Quoted:
am I going to die if the SHTF and we Fo? Statistically most of us are, yes. Worry more about shooting what you enjoy and less about End of the World fantasies. You will enjoy the hobby much more if you focus on the fun factor, and not on the "how will this do in SHTF" factor. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 2:25:13 PM EDT
[#38]
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I get it. You have a major hardon for the M110. BTW, the TM was not written by a bench shooter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Now I'm really done with this pissing match. I get it. You have a major hardon for the M110. BTW, the TM was not written by a bench shooter. I can point to a dozen different maintenance procedures and schedules off the top of my head that don't match up with the real world spanning from pistols to medium cal cannons. What the expert writes is changed numerous times in review before approval. Stupid shit gets put in. Good stuff gets taken out. How do I know? I've been part of several working groups to write SOP's, manuals, and TTP. I don't have a major hardon for the Mk11/M110. If they were taken out of my shop tomorrow, life would be just a bit easier. I will say they outclass the Mk14 in virtually every category. You take what the manufacturer puts out as gospel, while completely ignoring a decade of documented issues (and upsides too) and many members here relating thier real world experience. Every time someone talks about the Mk14 family in less than stellar terms, you throw out the same stuff |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 2:34:43 PM EDT
[#39]
freerider04,
I'm amazed by your apparent lack of respect for the men that built the TACOM M14EBR-RI and wrote the TM. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 2:40:16 PM EDT
[#40]
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freerider04, I'm amazed by your apparent lack of respect for the men that built the TACOM M14EBR-RI and wrote the TM. OK, you've got to be fucking with me now. I won't pull this topic off track anymore. OP: The M1A will work just fine. There may be other (better) choices out there, but since it's your money, it boils down to your preferences. Just be aware of both the advantages and disadvantages of the M1A compared to other rifles. Ignore the petty bitchfest between H2O_MAN and I, and use what suits you best. |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 2:46:40 PM EDT
[#41]
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Ignore the petty bitchfest between H2O_MAN and I, and use what suits you best. I can't argue with that thought... have yourself a safe weekend
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Posted: 4/25/2014 2:48:33 PM EDT
[#42]
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I can't argue with that thought... have yourself a safe weekend
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Ignore the petty bitchfest between H2O_MAN and I, and use what suits you best. I can't argue with that thought... have yourself a safe weekend
You too |
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Posted: 4/25/2014 2:55:51 PM EDT
[#43]
the only things an AR can do well that an M1A can't do is rapid fire (accurately) and maybe even close quarters combat. With that being said, the M1A can do a lot that the AR cannot do. Those first two outweigh the rest. I too once went thru an M1A romance period. Then I took it Deer Hunting one fall and realized that it was a total bitch to carry thru underbrush. An AK was a better choice........ |
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Posted: 4/27/2014 4:38:52 PM EDT
[#44]
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This. They are not comparable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Apples and oranges. They have different roles. well, if we just compare two things ergonomics - AR accessories - AR |
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Posted: 4/28/2014 4:15:35 AM EDT
[#45]
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, the only things an AR can do well that an M1A can't do is rapid fire (accurately) and maybe even close quarters combat. With that being said, the M1A can do a lot that the AR cannot do. What can an M1A, other M14 clones, or a real M14 do that an AR in the same caliber can't do? I have an M14S and it's a great rifle, but I also have 5 AR10s. For SHTF, or combat, and I had to pick only ONE rifle in either, my AR10A4 carbine would be my choice. |
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Posted: 4/28/2014 10:18:45 AM EDT
[#46]
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What can an M1A, other M14 clones, or a real M14 do that an AR in the same caliber can't do? I have an M14S and it's a great rifle, but I also have 5 AR10s. For SHTF, or combat, and I had to pick only ONE rifle in either, my AR10A4 carbine would be my choice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
, the only things an AR can do well that an M1A can't do is rapid fire (accurately) and maybe even close quarters combat. With that being said, the M1A can do a lot that the AR cannot do. What can an M1A, other M14 clones, or a real M14 do that an AR in the same caliber can't do? I have an M14S and it's a great rifle, but I also have 5 AR10s. For SHTF, or combat, and I had to pick only ONE rifle in either, my AR10A4 carbine would be my choice. What don't people understand? Would you be at a huge disadvantage with an AR or AK or M14 or FAL or AR10... No An AR in the same caliber = 308 Well the AR10 is not as durable/reliable but it would be better than an AR15 for SHTF. For example, dropping a rifle with an aluminum receiver down a cliff could bend the receiver or mag well. Or, if a large rock fell on it. Then you weapon becomes useless or limited. The small parts of the AR10s can break easier also. The FAL or M14 will hold up to more abuse and don't have tight tolerances between the parts that move like the AR10 and AR15. But the FAL more so than the AR10, M14, AR10/15 are better weapons for a SHTF scenario. It's hard to beat the FAL for a SHTF weapon. I'd pick in this order FAL> M14> AR10 > AK47> AR15 For combat AR15 at the top |
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Posted: 4/28/2014 11:38:07 AM EDT
[#47]
7075 aluminum is a memory alloy that doesn't really bend much. Or if it does it comes right back.
Wood stocks, on the other hand, break rather easily. |
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Posted: 4/28/2014 12:44:48 PM EDT
[#48]
7075 breaks before it really bends.
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Posted: 4/28/2014 1:26:02 PM EDT
[#49]
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7075 breaks before it really bends. You can twist it but it won't retain that shape. I've seen that with barrel changes. |
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Posted: 4/28/2014 3:06:58 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can point to a dozen different maintenance procedures and schedules off the top of my head that don't match up with the real world spanning from pistols to medium cal cannons. What the expert writes is changed numerous times in review before approval. Stupid shit gets put in. Good stuff gets taken out. How do I know? I've been part of several working groups to write SOP's, manuals, and TTP. I don't have a major hardon for the Mk11/M110. If they were taken out of my shop tomorrow, life would be just a bit easier. I will say they outclass the Mk14 in virtually every category. You take what the manufacturer puts out as gospel, while completely ignoring a decade of documented issues (and upsides too) and many members here relating thier real world experience. Every time someone talks about the Mk14 family in less than stellar terms, you throw out the same stuff Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Now I'm really done with this pissing match. I get it. You have a major hardon for the M110. BTW, the TM was not written by a bench shooter. I can point to a dozen different maintenance procedures and schedules off the top of my head that don't match up with the real world spanning from pistols to medium cal cannons. What the expert writes is changed numerous times in review before approval. Stupid shit gets put in. Good stuff gets taken out. How do I know? I've been part of several working groups to write SOP's, manuals, and TTP. I don't have a major hardon for the Mk11/M110. If they were taken out of my shop tomorrow, life would be just a bit easier. I will say they outclass the Mk14 in virtually every category. You take what the manufacturer puts out as gospel, while completely ignoring a decade of documented issues (and upsides too) and many members here relating thier real world experience. Every time someone talks about the Mk14 family in less than stellar terms, you throw out the same stuff I think the OP was asking about AR15 vs. M14; I don't think they are comparable rifles if you're comparing the M14 versus a 5.56 AR variant, given that one is full powered battle rifle vs. intermediate carbine, etc. Anyway, with that said, I'll quote myself from this thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_2/406853__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Why_all_the_random_M1A_hate_.html&page=3 ME "Perfect is the enemy of good enough. For virtually every battle rifle usage the M14 platform is good enough to get the job done. In 2013 it is an obsolete platform in any incarnation; I wouldn't argue that point. It doesn't mean that with all concerns in balance it is an ineffective one. Anyone making that argument would be a fool to do so. I am not a precision shooter. If I ever needed to defend myself with a battle rifle, the M14 platform would do everything I needed it to. I think some people have contempt for the platform due to the obsolesce factor that blinds them to the fact that the platform is still an effective one in most respects. There are more effective platforms, but it's not like the M14/M1A won't get the job done in most cases." |
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