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Posted: 5/12/2014 12:23:23 PM EDT
[#1]
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I love it when people make blanket statements like that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I do. This is Federal Flite Control 9 pellet 00 buck from my 20" IC choked tactical shotgun at 15 yards. My magazine holds 8 plus the one in the chamber. That would be 81 33 caliber pellets. There is a reason law enforcement officers carry this load in pump shotguns in their trunks for serious house clearing. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Mobile%20Uploads/4F658DD3-C9FA-497F-9C27-91742C1E1E4B_zpsfxuvoppo.jpg And here is Remington standard 16 pellet #1 buck at the same distance. Note that all 16 are on target. While the spread is greater this is still center of mass, and the .30 caliber #1 is the smallest shot size that meets FBI penetration criteria, with less concern about over penetration. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Mobile%20Uploads/764E5ACC-3D29-4D45-B631-4F4985B0F24B_zpsewzxytdz.jpg I love it when people make blanket statements like that. Pretty much true. |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 5:57:45 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: As much as I like AR's, a shotgun with an 18" barrel for home defense is still the best option. The ultimate point and shoot. Your typical house with rooms in the 14'x14' sq. ft. size or so.... you won't miss.  |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 6:55:25 AM EDT
[#3]
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Yeah, Sometimes it isn't even worth trying anymore is it.
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As much as I like AR's, a shotgun with an 18" barrel for home defense is still the best option. The ultimate point and shoot. Your typical house with rooms in the 14'x14' sq. ft. size or so.... you won't miss.
I continue to try because I figure for every poster that posts nonsense, there are many that are not posting, but are reading and want to learn. I post for them. And with that in mind........It is easy to miss with a shotgun at any range, especially inside a home. More here: Buckshot Patterns |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 3:49:19 PM EDT
[#4]
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I continue to try because I figure for every poster that posts nonsense, there are many that are not posting, but are reading and want to learn. I post for them. And with that in mind........It is easy to miss with a shotgun at any range, especially inside a home. More here: Buckshot Patterns Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As much as I like AR's, a shotgun with an 18" barrel for home defense is still the best option. The ultimate point and shoot. Your typical house with rooms in the 14'x14' sq. ft. size or so.... you won't miss.
I continue to try because I figure for every poster that posts nonsense, there are many that are not posting, but are reading and want to learn. I post for them. And with that in mind........It is easy to miss with a shotgun at any range, especially inside a home. More here: Buckshot Patterns I guess those patterns in the photos I posted up above don't matter? Remember the Flite Control pattern was fist size 3"x4" at 15 yards, all 9 pellets. And we are comparing that crappy Wolf 00B with basically no wad and just a cap over the top to the new Federal Flite Control Wad buckshot or its Hornady VersaTite twin? Would you like to see what Flite Control 00B does from my 20" IC at 50 yards (way beyond any home defense scenario)? I was waiting for someone to bite, not familiar with Federal Flite Control. The black marked crosses in this photo represent the hits. Two of them are double crosses, representing pellets too close together to mark separately. Count the hits: 9 out of 9 in a 10-11 inch circle at 50 yards. Now compare that to the open cup Wolf crap. Flite Control is a game changer, gents. Yes, you have to aim it. Like your rifle. But these babies will eliminate the threat. I've seen the effect of this new type of buckshot on whitetail deer. It is simply devastating. This is with one trigger pull. There are eight more in the magazine. Each shot is 483 grains of lead with almost 1900 ft pounds of energy and a huge increase in frontal area striking the target with 9 .33 cal projectiles simultaneously. Repeat as necessary. Chances very high are you will not have to. 
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Posted: 5/13/2014 4:50:51 PM EDT
[#5]
I hate the term "game changer"
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Posted: 5/13/2014 4:51:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hate the term "game changer"  |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 6:12:34 PM EDT
[#7]
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I was waiting for someone to bite, not familiar with Federal Flite Control. I have to laugh. Federal Flight Control #1 Buckshot |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 6:29:28 PM EDT
[#8]
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I was waiting for someone to bite, not familiar with Federal Flite Control. I have to laugh. Federal Flight Control #1 Buckshot From your info, it seems to only be of benefit to users shooting things at 50 yards or further. Why not just use a slug for that application? |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 6:38:25 PM EDT
[#9]
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From your info, it seems to only be of benefit to users shooting things at 50 yards or further. Why not just use a slug for that application? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I was waiting for someone to bite, not familiar with Federal Flite Control. I have to laugh. Federal Flight Control #1 Buckshot From your info, it seems to only be of benefit to users shooting things at 50 yards or further. Why not just use a slug for that application? Did we read something different |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 6:38:55 PM EDT
[#10]
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From your info, it seems to only be of benefit to users shooting things at 50 yards or further. Why not just use a slug for that application? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I was waiting for someone to bite, not familiar with Federal Flite Control. I have to laugh. Federal Flight Control #1 Buckshot From your info, it seems to only be of benefit to users shooting things at 50 yards or further. Why not just use a slug for that application? Because when the buckshot hits the target, each pellet will make its own wound channel. |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 6:49:19 PM EDT
[#11]
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Because when the buckshot hits the target, each pellet will make its own wound channel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I was waiting for someone to bite, not familiar with Federal Flite Control. I have to laugh. Federal Flight Control #1 Buckshot From your info, it seems to only be of benefit to users shooting things at 50 yards or further. Why not just use a slug for that application? Because when the buckshot hits the target, each pellet will make its own wound channel. It seems from 6-15 yards (typical HD distance, it might just be one big wound channel, but you are probably right. The cardboard might be misleading a little. Gel would do a better job depicting the wound channels you are describing. |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 6:51:54 PM EDT
[#12]
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Did we read something different Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I was waiting for someone to bite, not familiar with Federal Flite Control. I have to laugh. Federal Flight Control #1 Buckshot From your info, it seems to only be of benefit to users shooting things at 50 yards or further. Why not just use a slug for that application? Did we read something different Explain the benefit this test shows at typical HD distances? It seems standard 00Buck is more desirable for that application. The tighter pattern is only an advantage at longer distances... Like all shotgun loads/choke combos.
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Posted: 5/13/2014 7:04:25 PM EDT
[#13]
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It seems from 6-15 yards (typical HD distance, it might just be one big wound channel, but you are probably right. The cardboard might be misleading a little. Gel would do a better job depicting the wound channels you are describing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I was waiting for someone to bite, not familiar with Federal Flite Control. I have to laugh. Federal Flight Control #1 Buckshot From your info, it seems to only be of benefit to users shooting things at 50 yards or further. Why not just use a slug for that application? Because when the buckshot hits the target, each pellet will make its own wound channel. It seems from 6-15 yards (typical HD distance, it might just be one big wound channel, but you are probably right. The cardboard might be misleading a little. Gel would do a better job depicting the wound channels you are describing. Look here: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm Notice the third illustration down the page. |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 7:13:23 PM EDT
[#14]
It's always fun when people try to argue with the old guy of knowledge.
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Posted: 5/13/2014 7:21:37 PM EDT
[#15]
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Look here: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm Notice the third illustration down the page. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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From your info, it seems to only be of benefit to users shooting things at 50 yards or further. Why not just use a slug for that application? Because when the buckshot hits the target, each pellet will make its own wound channel. It seems from 6-15 yards (typical HD distance, it might just be one big wound channel, but you are probably right. The cardboard might be misleading a little. Gel would do a better job depicting the wound channels you are describing. Look here: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm Notice the third illustration down the page. Yep that's exactly the pic that came to mind when you said individual wound channel. That's why I said you are probably right. All the projectiles are going to react to the variances in the anatomy differently too. Great load for cops. |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 7:23:08 PM EDT
[#16]
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It's always fun when people try to argue with the old guy of knowledge. Who is arguing? Drama queen much? |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 7:50:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who is arguing? Drama queen much? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's always fun when people try to argue with the old guy of knowledge. Who is arguing? Drama queen much? Self project much? |
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Posted: 5/13/2014 8:02:58 PM EDT
[#18]
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Not you, woman. Self project much? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's always fun when people try to argue with the old guy of knowledge. Who is arguing? Drama queen much? Self project much?  
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Posted: 5/14/2014 1:01:32 AM EDT
[#19]
I think for home defense against a break in I'd have to go with shot gun, then pistol, then ar15. If I'm being over-run by a mob of people then ar15. Just my $0.02
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Posted: 5/17/2014 4:58:03 AM EDT
[#20]
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I think for home defense against a break in I'd have to go with shot gun, then pistol, then ar15. If I'm being over-run by a mob of people then ar15. Just my $0.02 You would probably be better off than most whose plan for a break in consists of dialing 911 and blowing a rape whistle. But I would rather have an AR than anything else myself. |
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Posted: 5/17/2014 9:24:57 AM EDT
[#21]
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Pretty much true. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I do. This is Federal Flite Control 9 pellet 00 buck from my 20" IC choked tactical shotgun at 15 yards. My magazine holds 8 plus the one in the chamber. That would be 81 33 caliber pellets. There is a reason law enforcement officers carry this load in pump shotguns in their trunks for serious house clearing. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Mobile%20Uploads/4F658DD3-C9FA-497F-9C27-91742C1E1E4B_zpsfxuvoppo.jpg And here is Remington standard 16 pellet #1 buck at the same distance. Note that all 16 are on target. While the spread is greater this is still center of mass, and the .30 caliber #1 is the smallest shot size that meets FBI penetration criteria, with less concern about over penetration. http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Mobile%20Uploads/764E5ACC-3D29-4D45-B631-4F4985B0F24B_zpsewzxytdz.jpg I love it when people make blanket statements like that. Pretty much true. NM |
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Posted: 5/18/2014 5:40:06 AM EDT
[#22]
The data is the data and the facts are the facts. The multiple wound channels and the hugly greater surface area of the combined projectiles make the fist size Federal Flight Control load pattern a devastatingly effective home defense load.
For those who are recoil shy I say go do some skeet shooting classes with 12 gauge target loads and get familiar with a shotgun. Wimps. I know full power buckshot kicks a bit more, but not that much, and there are reduced recoil loads. The Federal FC loads I illustrated are not even the 12 pellet 2 3/4" Magnums or the 15 pellet 3" Magnun loads. Get over it. We shoot up to 200 rounds each in a single afternoon dove shooting in the fall if the birds are flying high. Women and older kids, too. I like my AR and have personally developed Barnes TSX handloads for hunting or longer range defense scenarios, but the shotgun with the right ammo is going to be what I defend my family with in a home intrusion. |
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Posted: 5/18/2014 6:17:54 AM EDT
[#23]
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The data is the data and the facts are the facts. The multiple wound channels and the hugly greater surface area of the combined projectiles make the fist size Federal Flight Control load pattern a devastatingly effective home defense load. For those who are recoil shy I say go do some skeet shooting classes with 12 gauge target loads and get familiar with a shotgun. Wimps. I know full power buckshot kicks a bit more, but not that much, and there are reduced recoil loads. The Federal FC loads I illustrated are not even the 12 pellet 2 3/4" Magnums or the 15 pellet 3" Magnun loads. Get over it. We shoot up to 200 rounds each in a single afternoon dove shooting in the fall if the birds are flying high. Women and older kids, too. I like my AR and have personally developed Barnes TSX handloads for hunting or longer range defense scenarios, but the shotgun with the right ammo is going to be what I defend my family with in a home intrusion.   as mentioned here a shooter who routinely uses his skeet gun, who routinely uses his bird gun, and who is comfortable with his shotgun is a formidable force to contend with when he is defending his home with it.
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Posted: 5/18/2014 11:40:11 AM EDT
[#24]
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as mentioned here a shooter who routinely uses his skeet gun, who routinely uses his bird gun, and who is comfortable with his shotgun is a formidable force to contend with when he is defending his home with it.Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The data is the data and the facts are the facts. The multiple wound channels and the hugly greater surface area of the combined projectiles make the fist size Federal Flight Control load pattern a devastatingly effective home defense load. For those who are recoil shy I say go do some skeet shooting classes with 12 gauge target loads and get familiar with a shotgun. Wimps. I know full power buckshot kicks a bit more, but not that much, and there are reduced recoil loads. The Federal FC loads I illustrated are not even the 12 pellet 2 3/4" Magnums or the 15 pellet 3" Magnun loads. Get over it. We shoot up to 200 rounds each in a single afternoon dove shooting in the fall if the birds are flying high. Women and older kids, too. I like my AR and have personally developed Barnes TSX handloads for hunting or longer range defense scenarios, but the shotgun with the right ammo is going to be what I defend my family with in a home intrusion. as mentioned here a shooter who routinely uses his skeet gun, who routinely uses his bird gun, and who is comfortable with his shotgun is a formidable force to contend with when he is defending his home with it.I have this to say: There is no really good answer. Here's why. I grew up with a shotgun in my hands. I've had many different flavors and have my own preferences. I got into rifles when I got old enough to buy my own. Im not much of a pistol guy, as stated, pistols are used to get me time to get to my long guns. That said, I'm more comfortable with my shotguns than anything else. Point shooting is a skill I aquired at a young age and I'm very comfortable with my ability to recognize a target and shoot then reassess. Some folks feel the same way about rifles, some about pistols. A shotgun guards my domicile, a 20" Auto 5 Riot to be exact, loaded with 4 00s with a slug the last one out. This setup is based on the MO of local criminals based on what I've seen in the field(EMS). That being said, there's a AR propped up in the corner ready for use if the situation I'm facing requires further intervention. Use what you are most comfortable with, and contrary to apparently popular belief, yes you have to aim a shotgun. The trick to it is WELL PLACED SHOTS ON TARGET. Its not a magical area denial weapon and it takes considerable skill to make it work well but in trained hands its a very lethal tool. |
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Posted: 5/18/2014 11:48:17 AM EDT
[#25]
NVM
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Posted: 5/18/2014 11:50:10 AM EDT
[#26]
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I have this to say: There is no really good answer. Here's why. I grew up with a shotgun in my hands. I've had many different flavors and have my own preferences. I got into rifles when I got old enough to buy my own. Im not much of a pistol guy, as stated, pistols are used to get me time to get to my long guns. That said, I'm more comfortable with my shotguns than anything else. Point shooting is a skill I aquired at a young age and I'm very comfortable with my ability to recognize a target and shoot then reassess. Some folks feel the same way about rifles, some about pistols. A shotgun guards my domicile, a 20" Auto 5 Riot to be exact, loaded with 4 00s with a slug the last one out. This setup is based on the MO of local criminals based on what I've seen in the field(EMS). That being said, there's a AR propped up in the corner ready for use if the situation I'm facing requires further intervention. Use what you are most comfortable with, and contrary to apparently popular belief, yes you have to aim a shotgun. The trick to it is WELL PLACED SHOTS ON TARGET. Its not a magical area denial weapon and it takes considerable skill to make it work well but in trained hands its a very lethal tool. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The data is the data and the facts are the facts. The multiple wound channels and the hugly greater surface area of the combined projectiles make the fist size Federal Flight Control load pattern a devastatingly effective home defense load. For those who are recoil shy I say go do some skeet shooting classes with 12 gauge target loads and get familiar with a shotgun. Wimps. I know full power buckshot kicks a bit more, but not that much, and there are reduced recoil loads. The Federal FC loads I illustrated are not even the 12 pellet 2 3/4" Magnums or the 15 pellet 3" Magnun loads. Get over it. We shoot up to 200 rounds each in a single afternoon dove shooting in the fall if the birds are flying high. Women and older kids, too. I like my AR and have personally developed Barnes TSX handloads for hunting or longer range defense scenarios, but the shotgun with the right ammo is going to be what I defend my family with in a home intrusion. as mentioned here a shooter who routinely uses his skeet gun, who routinely uses his bird gun, and who is comfortable with his shotgun is a formidable force to contend with when he is defending his home with it.I have this to say: There is no really good answer. Here's why. I grew up with a shotgun in my hands. I've had many different flavors and have my own preferences. I got into rifles when I got old enough to buy my own. Im not much of a pistol guy, as stated, pistols are used to get me time to get to my long guns. That said, I'm more comfortable with my shotguns than anything else. Point shooting is a skill I aquired at a young age and I'm very comfortable with my ability to recognize a target and shoot then reassess. Some folks feel the same way about rifles, some about pistols. A shotgun guards my domicile, a 20" Auto 5 Riot to be exact, loaded with 4 00s with a slug the last one out. This setup is based on the MO of local criminals based on what I've seen in the field(EMS). That being said, there's a AR propped up in the corner ready for use if the situation I'm facing requires further intervention. Use what you are most comfortable with, and contrary to apparently popular belief, yes you have to aim a shotgun. The trick to it is WELL PLACED SHOTS ON TARGET. Its not a magical area denial weapon and it takes considerable skill to make it work well but in trained hands its a very lethal tool. My point exactly, fear the man who uses one weapon,..........really well. |
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Posted: 5/18/2014 3:53:31 PM EDT
[#27]
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The trick to it is WELL PLACED SHOTS ON TARGET. Its not a magical area denial weapon and it takes considerable skill to make it work well but in trained hands its a very lethal tool. This quote is well worth repeating. |
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Posted: 5/18/2014 4:23:39 PM EDT
[#28]
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This quote is well worth repeating. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The trick to it is WELL PLACED SHOTS ON TARGET. Its not a magical area denial weapon and it takes considerable skill to make it work well but in trained hands its a very lethal tool. This quote is well worth repeating. After wading through all the really poor shotgun advice early in this thread I felt compelled to correct the really bad information. I swear General Firearms is like the GD kiddie pool sometimes. If some of those responses were posted there this thread would be a feeding frenzy on autopilot with a full compliment of timeouts and banhammers. Some folks come here for honest, no shit defensive advice. I try to give the best I can because at one time I was a noob too. |
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Posted: 5/18/2014 4:37:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My point exactly, fear the man who uses one weapon,..........really well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The data is the data and the facts are the facts. The multiple wound channels and the hugly greater surface area of the combined projectiles make the fist size Federal Flight Control load pattern a devastatingly effective home defense load. For those who are recoil shy I say go do some skeet shooting classes with 12 gauge target loads and get familiar with a shotgun. Wimps. I know full power buckshot kicks a bit more, but not that much, and there are reduced recoil loads. The Federal FC loads I illustrated are not even the 12 pellet 2 3/4" Magnums or the 15 pellet 3" Magnun loads. Get over it. We shoot up to 200 rounds each in a single afternoon dove shooting in the fall if the birds are flying high. Women and older kids, too. I like my AR and have personally developed Barnes TSX handloads for hunting or longer range defense scenarios, but the shotgun with the right ammo is going to be what I defend my family with in a home intrusion. as mentioned here a shooter who routinely uses his skeet gun, who routinely uses his bird gun, and who is comfortable with his shotgun is a formidable force to contend with when he is defending his home with it.I have this to say: There is no really good answer. Here's why. I grew up with a shotgun in my hands. I've had many different flavors and have my own preferences. I got into rifles when I got old enough to buy my own. Im not much of a pistol guy, as stated, pistols are used to get me time to get to my long guns. That said, I'm more comfortable with my shotguns than anything else. Point shooting is a skill I aquired at a young age and I'm very comfortable with my ability to recognize a target and shoot then reassess. Some folks feel the same way about rifles, some about pistols. A shotgun guards my domicile, a 20" Auto 5 Riot to be exact, loaded with 4 00s with a slug the last one out. This setup is based on the MO of local criminals based on what I've seen in the field(EMS). That being said, there's a AR propped up in the corner ready for use if the situation I'm facing requires further intervention. Use what you are most comfortable with, and contrary to apparently popular belief, yes you have to aim a shotgun. The trick to it is WELL PLACED SHOTS ON TARGET. Its not a magical area denial weapon and it takes considerable skill to make it work well but in trained hands its a very lethal tool. My point exactly, fear the man who uses one weapon,..........really well. This is like arguing that 357 revolvers are better than glocks, that train has left the station.
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Posted: 5/18/2014 5:33:01 PM EDT
[#30]
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The only people I know with one weapon are guys who stretch a box of ammo twenty years This is like arguing that 357 revolvers are better than glocks, that train has left the station. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The data is the data and the facts are the facts. The multiple wound channels and the hugly greater surface area of the combined projectiles make the fist size Federal Flight Control load pattern a devastatingly effective home defense load. For those who are recoil shy I say go do some skeet shooting classes with 12 gauge target loads and get familiar with a shotgun. Wimps. I know full power buckshot kicks a bit more, but not that much, and there are reduced recoil loads. The Federal FC loads I illustrated are not even the 12 pellet 2 3/4" Magnums or the 15 pellet 3" Magnun loads. Get over it. We shoot up to 200 rounds each in a single afternoon dove shooting in the fall if the birds are flying high. Women and older kids, too. I like my AR and have personally developed Barnes TSX handloads for hunting or longer range defense scenarios, but the shotgun with the right ammo is going to be what I defend my family with in a home intrusion. as mentioned here a shooter who routinely uses his skeet gun, who routinely uses his bird gun, and who is comfortable with his shotgun is a formidable force to contend with when he is defending his home with it.I have this to say: There is no really good answer. Here's why. I grew up with a shotgun in my hands. I've had many different flavors and have my own preferences. I got into rifles when I got old enough to buy my own. Im not much of a pistol guy, as stated, pistols are used to get me time to get to my long guns. That said, I'm more comfortable with my shotguns than anything else. Point shooting is a skill I aquired at a young age and I'm very comfortable with my ability to recognize a target and shoot then reassess. Some folks feel the same way about rifles, some about pistols. A shotgun guards my domicile, a 20" Auto 5 Riot to be exact, loaded with 4 00s with a slug the last one out. This setup is based on the MO of local criminals based on what I've seen in the field(EMS). That being said, there's a AR propped up in the corner ready for use if the situation I'm facing requires further intervention. Use what you are most comfortable with, and contrary to apparently popular belief, yes you have to aim a shotgun. The trick to it is WELL PLACED SHOTS ON TARGET. Its not a magical area denial weapon and it takes considerable skill to make it work well but in trained hands its a very lethal tool. My point exactly, fear the man who uses one weapon,..........really well. This is like arguing that 357 revolvers are better than glocks, that train has left the station.  Never said I didn't know how to use other weapons, just that I prefer to use a shotgun.
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Posted: 5/18/2014 7:35:24 PM EDT
[#31]
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The only people I know with one weapon are guys who stretch a box of ammo twenty years This is like arguing that 357 revolvers are better than glocks, that train has left the station. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The data is the data and the facts are the facts. The multiple wound channels and the hugly greater surface area of the combined projectiles make the fist size Federal Flight Control load pattern a devastatingly effective home defense load. For those who are recoil shy I say go do some skeet shooting classes with 12 gauge target loads and get familiar with a shotgun. Wimps. I know full power buckshot kicks a bit more, but not that much, and there are reduced recoil loads. The Federal FC loads I illustrated are not even the 12 pellet 2 3/4" Magnums or the 15 pellet 3" Magnun loads. Get over it. We shoot up to 200 rounds each in a single afternoon dove shooting in the fall if the birds are flying high. Women and older kids, too. I like my AR and have personally developed Barnes TSX handloads for hunting or longer range defense scenarios, but the shotgun with the right ammo is going to be what I defend my family with in a home intrusion. as mentioned here a shooter who routinely uses his skeet gun, who routinely uses his bird gun, and who is comfortable with his shotgun is a formidable force to contend with when he is defending his home with it.I have this to say: There is no really good answer. Here's why. I grew up with a shotgun in my hands. I've had many different flavors and have my own preferences. I got into rifles when I got old enough to buy my own. Im not much of a pistol guy, as stated, pistols are used to get me time to get to my long guns. That said, I'm more comfortable with my shotguns than anything else. Point shooting is a skill I aquired at a young age and I'm very comfortable with my ability to recognize a target and shoot then reassess. Some folks feel the same way about rifles, some about pistols. A shotgun guards my domicile, a 20" Auto 5 Riot to be exact, loaded with 4 00s with a slug the last one out. This setup is based on the MO of local criminals based on what I've seen in the field(EMS). That being said, there's a AR propped up in the corner ready for use if the situation I'm facing requires further intervention. Use what you are most comfortable with, and contrary to apparently popular belief, yes you have to aim a shotgun. The trick to it is WELL PLACED SHOTS ON TARGET. Its not a magical area denial weapon and it takes considerable skill to make it work well but in trained hands its a very lethal tool. My point exactly, fear the man who uses one weapon,..........really well. This is like arguing that 357 revolvers are better than glocks, that train has left the station. You must not know many people who hunt on a limited budget, "simple" country folks for whom I have deep respect, nor do you seem to understand the point. I grew up in that world. By my good fortune I now have, as best I can recall, 36 long guns, both rifles and shotguns. I do not use them all with the same degree of regularity. I have just a few that I shoot a lot. One happens to be a particular custom bolt gun that I use for most of my "big game" hunting. I have an over under 20 guage shotgun that sees a lot of upland hunting, a semiauto 12 gauge that is with me in a duck blind. An AR15 that sees alot of range time, and the tactical shotgun that does also. The latter two have been with me in training courses. Of my long guns, these five get used a lot. I'm intimately familiar with each, the role it plays and am comfortable with my capabilities with each. I also know guys I shoot birds with who have only one gun: an all purpose 12 gauge. That's all they can afford, but they may shoot a thousand rounds a year through that barrel. They put their money into ammo rather than a collection of firearms. One box of shells? 20 years? Come bird shooting or clays with these less advantaged but very experienced boys. Or watch then take running deer with buckshot or slugs in thick woods ahead of a pack of very fast Walker hounds. They will show you quickly what the one gun guy can do in Mississippi, and it is far more likely to be with a shotgun. Don't know what train you are on or what station it may have left. Those generalizations do not match the world in which I hunt and shoot firearms. |
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Posted: 5/19/2014 1:14:49 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After wading through all the really poor shotgun advice early in this thread I felt compelled to correct the really bad information. I swear General Firearms is like the GD kiddie pool sometimes. If some of those responses were posted there this thread would be a feeding frenzy on autopilot with a full compliment of timeouts and banhammers. Some folks come here for honest, no shit defensive advice. I try to give the best I can because at one time I was a noob too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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The trick to it is WELL PLACED SHOTS ON TARGET. Its not a magical area denial weapon and it takes considerable skill to make it work well but in trained hands its a very lethal tool. This quote is well worth repeating. After wading through all the really poor shotgun advice early in this thread I felt compelled to correct the really bad information. I swear General Firearms is like the GD kiddie pool sometimes. If some of those responses were posted there this thread would be a feeding frenzy on autopilot with a full compliment of timeouts and banhammers. Some folks come here for honest, no shit defensive advice. I try to give the best I can because at one time I was a noob too. No argument from me about that. Some of the advise posted on here is irresponsibly wrong. ETA, MS556, you're describing the exception, not the rule. I grew up in the backwoods of North Carolina, and I rarely met someone with "just one gun," even among the poorest of the people I knew. Regardless of one's skill with xyz type of firearm, being capable with one gun makes you a poorly rounded shooter. That's not something to brag about. |
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Posted: 5/19/2014 8:04:47 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You must not know many people who hunt on a limited budget, "simple" country folks for whom I have deep respect, nor do you seem to understand the point. I grew up in that world. By my good fortune I now have, as best I can recall, 36 long guns, both rifles and shotguns. I do not use them all with the same degree of regularity. I have just a few that I shoot a lot. One happens to be a particular custom bolt gun that I use for most of my "big game" hunting. I have an over under 20 guage shotgun that sees a lot of upland hunting, a semiauto 12 gauge that is with me in a duck blind. An AR15 that sees alot of range time, and the tactical shotgun that does also. The latter two have been with me in training courses. Of my long guns, these five get used a lot. I'm intimately familiar with each, the role it plays and am comfortable with my capabilities with each. I also know guys I shoot birds with who have only one gun: an all purpose 12 gauge. That's all they can afford, but they may shoot a thousand rounds a year through that barrel. They put their money into ammo rather than a collection of firearms. One box of shells? 20 years? Come bird shooting or clays with these less advantaged but very experienced boys. Or watch then take running deer with buckshot or slugs in thick woods ahead of a pack of very fast Walker hounds. They will show you quickly what the one gun guy can do in Mississippi, and it is far more likely to be with a shotgun. Don't know what train you are on or what station it may have left. Those generalizations do not match the world in which I hunt and shoot firearms. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is like arguing that 357 revolvers are better than glocks, that train has left the station. You must not know many people who hunt on a limited budget, "simple" country folks for whom I have deep respect, nor do you seem to understand the point. I grew up in that world. By my good fortune I now have, as best I can recall, 36 long guns, both rifles and shotguns. I do not use them all with the same degree of regularity. I have just a few that I shoot a lot. One happens to be a particular custom bolt gun that I use for most of my "big game" hunting. I have an over under 20 guage shotgun that sees a lot of upland hunting, a semiauto 12 gauge that is with me in a duck blind. An AR15 that sees alot of range time, and the tactical shotgun that does also. The latter two have been with me in training courses. Of my long guns, these five get used a lot. I'm intimately familiar with each, the role it plays and am comfortable with my capabilities with each. I also know guys I shoot birds with who have only one gun: an all purpose 12 gauge. That's all they can afford, but they may shoot a thousand rounds a year through that barrel. They put their money into ammo rather than a collection of firearms. One box of shells? 20 years? Come bird shooting or clays with these less advantaged but very experienced boys. Or watch then take running deer with buckshot or slugs in thick woods ahead of a pack of very fast Walker hounds. They will show you quickly what the one gun guy can do in Mississippi, and it is far more likely to be with a shotgun. Don't know what train you are on or what station it may have left. Those generalizations do not match the world in which I hunt and shoot firearms. |
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Posted: 5/19/2014 8:12:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know more poor ass rural motherfuckers than ten of you guys standing on each other's shoulders. I do not believe for one minute you know someone who owns just a shotgun, no .22, no pistol, no second shotgun, no wally mart thuddy thuddy, no nothing else, and he shoots that much I grew up as one of those, in trailer park full of them. They were either gun guys, with lots of them, and shot a lot. Or they weren't, and kept a .22 and a 12 gauge, but never shot. No in between really. |
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Posted: 5/19/2014 9:01:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. I grew up as one of those, in trailer park full of them. They were either gun guys, with lots of them, and shot a lot. Or they weren't, and kept a .22 and a 12 gauge, but never shot. No in between really. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I know more poor ass rural motherfuckers than ten of you guys standing on each other's shoulders. I do not believe for one minute you know someone who owns just a shotgun, no .22, no pistol, no second shotgun, no wally mart thuddy thuddy, no nothing else, and he shoots that much I grew up as one of those, in trailer park full of them. They were either gun guys, with lots of them, and shot a lot. Or they weren't, and kept a .22 and a 12 gauge, but never shot. No in between really. +1000 And  @aimless' post.
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Posted: 5/19/2014 2:03:50 PM EDT
[#36]
You must not know many people who hunt on a limited budget, "simple" country folks for whom I have deep respect, nor do you seem to understand the point.
I grew up in that world. By my good fortune I now have, as best I can recall, 36 long guns, both rifles and shotguns. I do not use them all with the same degree of regularity. I have just a few that I shoot a lot. One happens to be a particular custom bolt gun that I use for most of my "big game" hunting. I have an over under 20 guage shotgun that sees a lot of upland hunting, a semiauto 12 gauge that is with me in a duck blind. An AR15 that sees alot of range time, and the tactical shotgun that does also. The latter two have been with me in training courses. Of my long guns, these five get used a lot. I'm intimately familiar with each, the role it plays and am comfortable with my capabilities with each. I also know guys I shoot birds with who have only one gun: an all purpose 12 gauge. That's all they can afford, but they may shoot a thousand rounds a year through that barrel. They put their money into ammo rather than a collection of firearms. One box of shells? 20 years? Come bird shooting or clays with these less advantaged but very experienced boys. Or watch then take running deer with buckshot or slugs in thick woods ahead of a pack of very fast Walker hounds. They will show you quickly what the one gun guy can do in Mississippi, and it is far more likely to be with a shotgun. Don't know what train you are on or what station it may have left. Those generalizations do not match the world in which I hunt and shoot firearms Pretty much says it all. |
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Posted: 5/19/2014 4:41:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As much as I like AR's, a shotgun with an 18" barrel for home defense is still the best option. The ultimate point and shoot. Your typical house with rooms in the 14'x14' sq. ft. size or so.... you won't miss. Have you ever actually patterned a shotgun before? I did with an 870 with 18" cylinder bore and the widest pattern I got was 4" at 25 yards with one or two flyers. That was with Remington 00 buck. You still have to aim a shotgun. Or I guess you could rack the slide and scare the intruder(s) off. |
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Posted: 5/22/2014 5:43:05 AM EDT
[#38]
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm
if you want to know the best weapon for self defense visit the page. It absolutely made up my mind for me. If you want tp argue about penetration of rounds ylu HAVE to look here. So my answer is AR15 hands down. When I am defending myself I want the weapon that can be the most adaptable to my environmentand the easiest to use. I wanthigh capacity for multiple targets and I want a proven round thats a man stopper. I want it to be lightweight and handy. If you think a 16 inch AR is not handy, I dare you to watch competition shooters use longer barreled ARs and tell me they wouldnt fuck your world up. Last but not least I want some dependable that doesnt require me to work the action every shot. |
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