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Posted: 8/28/2011 6:15:33 AM EST
Hey all, I'm sure this has been done before but couldn't find a straight up comparison. Got about 3 k for a heavy hitter and think I have it narrowed down to these 2. Any opinions as which to get would be appreciated. I understand what I'm going to be doing with it is important, however I'm looking for best all around rifle here. Taking many things into account, including accuracy, dependability, value, ect. You guys with AR-10's and M1's try to convince me otherwise....
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Posted: 8/28/2011 6:18:58 AM EST
FAL Para from DSA - about $1500.

use the money you saved to buy ammo / optic mount and optic if you desire.

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Posted: 8/28/2011 6:35:26 AM EST
I say Scar, down size is the availability of aftermarket parts(not that it needs any) and mags.

The HK91, is not bad however parts are expensive. Upgrades are difficult to include adding optics.

FAL is not a bad option, the mags and parts are plentiful. Not as accurate as the SCAR or AR10 however it is not a bad option.

The M1A or M14 clones are pretty good. They are difficult to scope if your plans are to use optics.

RFB, is like a Unicorn. Can barely see any.

I have read great reviews in regards to the DPMS LR308 rifles.

AR10's are accurate and parts are readily available.

There are the RRA LAR8, I have read mixed reviews.

There is the Saiga 308 that you can have converted.

There is also the LMT 308 that the Brits are using. I have seen good reviews but it is pricey.

These are good times for firearms, bad times for most peoples wallets.

Then there are a plethora of bolt action 308's as well.
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Posted: 8/28/2011 6:48:02 AM EST
I hear ya, on mounting options for optics on the HK... I guess you can have a smith mount a pic rail on top, but that would probably be sacrelige.
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Posted: 8/28/2011 6:54:04 AM EST
claw mounts are quite easy to mount.....
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Posted: 8/28/2011 6:55:36 AM EST
SCAR or AR10/DPMS LR.

I'm personally getting a DPMS LR308 or LR260 and immediately throwing a Krieger 26" .260 rem. barrel on it. I'm predicting 1/2MOA, likely better and a round that's good to go (for paper and steel at least) out to 1200yd+.

I would like a SCAR, but can't handle the price for a stock rifle. If price came down to $1500 and I could get barrels in .260 remington for it, I'd hop on it.
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Posted: 8/28/2011 7:14:02 AM EST
If you've got 3k to spend, why not get an OBR?
So why are you here then? Why do you continue to take orders while your superiors betray you? Don't know? Well then I'll tell you...
You enjoy all the killing. That's why.
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Posted: 8/28/2011 8:28:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2011 8:31:11 AM EST by Mattl]
Originally Posted By echofivekilo:
If you've got 3k to spend, why not get an OBR?


Yeah stick with the SCAR H if you are actually going to throw down the money, otherwise FAL. 90 series ergos are complete shit and lack of a BHO device makes it even worse and if you reload the majority of your brass will be damaged. I own a 91 type.

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Posted: 8/28/2011 11:08:51 AM EST
I have a G3 clone, FAL, M1A, RFB, AR-10 and SCAR 17s.

The SCAR is the best by far.

G3 problems are a really bad trigger, really dirty action, very poor ergonomics and balance. The worst 308 rifle of the group

FAL is almost perfect, only problem is accuracy is just ok and no where near as accurate as a AR-10 or SCAR

M1A is almost perfect, but accuracy is really poor compared to a AR-10 or SCAR. Almost the best rifle to shoot standing

RFB is a toy, unreliable and ok accuracy.

AR-10 is very very accurate, great trigger and lots of cool way to customize, but very nose heavy, best for shooting off bench.

The SCAR is not the best in all but does everything very well, it is very accurate, controls are great, trigger is good, recoil is less than any of the above rifles, AND the most comfortable to shoot standing.
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Posted: 8/28/2011 12:14:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2011 2:56:16 PM EST by Blain]
One thing that many neglect to mention with .308 rifles is the weight. The M14 is the lightest by far. At 7.75 lbs. unloaded for a standard 22" GI profile barrel with a fiberglass stock, it is by far the lightest of all the .308 battle rifles and weighs as much as an unloaded M16A2. Make it a scout configuration (18" barrel) and it's even lighter.

If you want a serious combat arm, weight is an important factor. Most of the modern AR10s are junk with the unnecessarily heavy barrels they put on them. At ~10 lbs unloaded for most of them out there, it's ridiculous! A fully loaded M14 weighs less than an empty AR10.

On a side note, the original AR10 introduced in 1955 was constructed to weight under 7 lbs. unloaded....make a modern version of that rifle and I'd be all over it!


Originally Posted By ronin556:


M1A is almost perfect, but accuracy is really poor compared to a AR-10 or SCAR.

.



No.
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Posted: 8/28/2011 12:58:42 PM EST
This is how I see battle rifles:

AR-10: Very accurate, best for a semi-auto sniper rifle
FAL: Very durable and reliable, but not the most accurate, best for SHTF
HK-91: I love this one just because I can run a registered HK full-auto trigger pack with it
M1A: Classic looks, but not my first choice for a modern battle rifle
SCAR-H: Most modern battle rifle with ambi controls but it is expensive
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Posted: 8/28/2011 2:28:28 PM EST
If it was my money...I'd go

SCAR17
OBR
DPMS LR

Having owned multiple FAL, M1A, HK91...I can say they all work, but not great for mounting optics. The RFB is awesome due it it being a true ambi rifle. It also won't eject hot brass in your face and the compact size is useful as well.

I really like the SCAR17 due to the weight of the rifle...big minus for me is how expensive and tough to locate mags.
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Posted: 8/29/2011 12:38:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2011 12:41:00 PM EST by bonesaw5]
Anyone have any experience with FNAR's? Where would they stand in the conversation? Guess they are in the AR-10 category...
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Posted: 8/30/2011 4:43:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2011 4:44:40 AM EST by chapperjoe]
I don't have a SCAR heavy.
It may be a great rifle.
But versus the HK-91 or FAL?
How can you compare it to battered, beaten, abused, successful, proven platforms in the same breath???
Heck, even the M-14 doesn't hold muster to those two.....


Lets see the SCAR-H in 60 years.
ETA: I also apprecaite the longevity and reliability of the ARMALITE AR-10, which I think is a fantastic rifle, and I do think the ones from 50 years ago will work jeessssss fine today. I've had a few, and they've never failed.


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Posted: 8/30/2011 5:25:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I don't have a SCAR heavy.
It may be a great rifle.
But versus the HK-91 or FAL?
How can you compare it to battered, beaten, abused, successful, proven platforms in the same breath???
Heck, even the M-14 doesn't hold muster to those two.....


Lets see the SCAR-H in 60 years.
ETA: I also apprecaite the longevity and reliability of the ARMALITE AR-10, which I think is a fantastic rifle, and I do think the ones from 50 years ago will work jeessssss fine today. I've had a few, and they've never failed.



I see your point, but I think if we look at the advancements in the past
60 years you can't deny the fact that we can make better, more user
Friendly stuff when companies are not trying to do it on the cheap.

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Posted: 8/30/2011 5:46:45 AM EST
again, I have NO experience with the platform, so classic errornet post based on others' experiences:

the SCAR stock and hinge are not exuding 60-year-endurance.

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Posted: 8/30/2011 5:51:30 AM EST
I have 2 91's and 2 SCAR17's and the first guns to grab would be the scars, lighter, less recoil, lighter oh did I say lighter with less recoil?
I wish I was the man my dog thinks I am
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Posted: 8/30/2011 7:23:28 AM EST
the problem with the comparison is that good hk's and fal's are damn expensive so it's not like they offer their quality at a cheaper price.

I'd love to try out a scar-H with a vltor stock
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Posted: 8/30/2011 2:29:48 PM EST
I've owned an HK-91 and have a SCAR-17S. SCAR is light years better than the HK. Buy the SCAR, you won't be sorry.
I don't have a license to kill, but I do have a learner's permit.
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Posted: 8/30/2011 3:15:58 PM EST
I went with the SCAR H. The only gripe I have is that mags are a bitch to get
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Posted: 8/30/2011 8:26:17 PM EST
I would say SCAR.
Then Ar pattern.
Then M14.
FAL.
HK pattern.
AK.

For very similar reasons as posted in above posts. I have a Scar16, not the 17, but base myXP with the 16 against other 308 rifles and the scar package in 308 could only be the winner. I have had all those listed in my response. I only have the Ar10's and M14––and a Scar17 some day. thinking of selling the M14 to fund the Scar 17.
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Posted: 8/30/2011 11:00:24 PM EST


Originally Posted By ronin556:


M1A is almost perfect, but accuracy is really poor compared to a AR-10 or SCAR.

.



No.[/quote]

Wow you are clueless. Every been to any national matches, shoot at the national match? get a clue.
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Posted: 8/31/2011 4:31:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2011 7:30:51 AM EST by chapperjoe]
Originally Posted By ronin556:


Originally Posted By ronin556:


M1A is almost perfect, but accuracy is really poor compared to a AR-10 or SCAR.

.



No.


Wow you are clueless. Every been to any national matches, shoot at the national match? get a clue.



It's common knowledge that they require work to become that accurate.

Are you contending that out of the box, the M14 type can compete accuracy wise with the box stock AR10 or SCAR?
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Posted: 8/31/2011 7:09:06 AM EST
HK91 def IMO, i dont really like the M1 style rifles of FALS, never shot a scar, cant own one here anyway. I like my PTR need to get it out again soon.

OPtics are easy by the way MFI rail and any extended scope mount, just need to keep scope 13" or less it interferes with handle.

...and in the heavy class bind them!
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Posted: 8/31/2011 7:25:08 AM EST

<–––– Witch-king says to buy the FAL...and ammo.
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Posted: 8/31/2011 5:23:48 PM EST
You can't own a scar in NJ?????
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Posted: 8/31/2011 5:42:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By bonesaw5:
You can't own a scar in NJ?????


Unless they make a ban compliant one now, then no.....
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Posted: 8/31/2011 6:28:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By scatterbrains:
Originally Posted By bonesaw5:
You can't own a scar in NJ?????


Unless they make a ban compliant one now, then no.....


Dude, I would move......then write your former congressman
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Posted: 8/31/2011 7:29:33 PM EST
LOL, i cant afford a scar anyhow LOL...Im ok with what we got but always fighting for more..one day ill be gone
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Posted: 8/31/2011 10:21:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By Blain:
One thing that many neglect to mention with .308 rifles is the weight. The M14 is the lightest by far. At 7.75 lbs. unloaded for a standard 22" GI profile barrel with a fiberglass stock, it is by far the lightest of all the .308 battle rifles and weighs as much as an unloaded M16A2. Make it a scout configuration (18" barrel) and it's even lighter.

If you want a serious combat arm, weight is an important factor. Most of the modern AR10s are junk with the unnecessarily heavy barrels they put on them. At ~10 lbs unloaded for most of them out there, it's ridiculous! A fully loaded M14 weighs less than an empty AR10.

On a side note, the original AR10 introduced in 1955 was constructed to weight under 7 lbs. unloaded....make a modern version of that rifle and I'd be all over it!


Originally Posted By ronin556:


M1A is almost perfect, but accuracy is really poor compared to a AR-10 or SCAR.

.



No.


That is False. The AR10 is an excellent rifle as everyone else has said. My carbine weighs in a barely 8 lbs with a Battlerail installed.
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Posted: 9/1/2011 2:54:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2011 2:56:43 AM EST by Strongbow]
If I were buying a .308 battle rifle today, it's be a SCAR 17.... no question. FAL's are nice, but heavy, and lacking some of the more modern features of the SCAR.

The upper tier AR-10-type rifles are also nice, but they are in the same price category as the SCAR, so no reason to consider them, IMO.
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Posted: 9/7/2011 1:46:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2011 2:15:14 PM EST by HarrishMasher]
Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
Originally Posted By ronin556:


Originally Posted By ronin556:


M1A is almost perfect, but accuracy is really poor compared to a AR-10 or SCAR.

.



No.


Wow you are clueless. Every been to any national matches, shoot at the national match? get a clue.



It's common knowledge that they require work to become that accurate.

Are you contending that out of the box, the M14 type can compete accuracy wise with the box stock AR10 or SCAR?


Without a doubt...

My out of the box standard rack grade LRB M14S with 18.5" chrome lined barrel and USGI parts. 10x Bushnell Elite scope. This is a consistent sub-MOA rifle:







All Groups 3 rounds at 100 yards:










My other out of the box standard rack grade LRB M14S with 18.5" chrome lined barrel and USGI parts. With a 1-4X Trijicon TR24 scope shot on 4x power. First time out ever shooting a 4x scope I can easily improve upon these groups with some more practice with 4x:









My 2 out of the box rack grade LRBs will shoot with any SCAR 17 or AR10, and probably many bolt rifles.






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Posted: 9/7/2011 2:40:35 PM EST
LMT MWS beats the pants off everything mentioned in every way.
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Posted: 9/7/2011 2:42:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By HarrishMasher:
Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
Originally Posted By ronin556:


Originally Posted By ronin556:


M1A is almost perfect, but accuracy is really poor compared to a AR-10 or SCAR.

.



No.


Wow you are clueless. Every been to any national matches, shoot at the national match? get a clue.



It's common knowledge that they require work to become that accurate.

Are you contending that out of the box, the M14 type can compete accuracy wise with the box stock AR10 or SCAR?


Without a doubt...

My out of the box standard rack grade LRB M14S with 18.5" chrome lined barrel and USGI parts. 10x Bushnell Elite scope. This is a consistent sub-MOA rifle:


http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010475.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010403.jpg


All Groups 3 rounds at 100 yards:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/DSCN2842.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010478.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010520.jpg




My other out of the box standard rack grade LRB M14S with 18.5" chrome lined barrel and USGI parts. With a 1-4X Trijicon TR24 scope shot on 4x power. First time out ever shooting a 4x scope I can easily improve upon these groups with some more practice with 4x:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010483.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010484.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010449.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010477.jpg

My 2 out of the box rack grade LRBs will shoot with any SCAR 17 or AR10, and probably many bolt rifles.







3 round groups = FAIL
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Posted: 9/7/2011 3:29:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2011 3:31:31 PM EST by HarrishMasher]
Originally Posted By BB:
Originally Posted By HarrishMasher:
Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
Originally Posted By ronin556:


Originally Posted By ronin556:


M1A is almost perfect, but accuracy is really poor compared to a AR-10 or SCAR.

.



No.


Wow you are clueless. Every been to any national matches, shoot at the national match? get a clue.



It's common knowledge that they require work to become that accurate.

Are you contending that out of the box, the M14 type can compete accuracy wise with the box stock AR10 or SCAR?


Without a doubt...

My out of the box standard rack grade LRB M14S with 18.5" chrome lined barrel and USGI parts. 10x Bushnell Elite scope. This is a consistent sub-MOA rifle:


http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010475.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010403.jpg


All Groups 3 rounds at 100 yards:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/DSCN2842.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010478.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010520.jpg




My other out of the box standard rack grade LRB M14S with 18.5" chrome lined barrel and USGI parts. With a 1-4X Trijicon TR24 scope shot on 4x power. First time out ever shooting a 4x scope I can easily improve upon these groups with some more practice with 4x:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010483.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010484.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010449.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll148/harrishmasher/P1010477.jpg

My 2 out of the box rack grade LRBs will shoot with any SCAR 17 or AR10, and probably many bolt rifles.







3 round groups = FAIL



"FAIL" is kind of a strong word for my rifle and my shooting ability, don't you think?

I only shoot 5 shot groups with my heavy barreled rifles, which happen to all be .22s at the moment. With all of my standard weight barreled rifles I shoot 3 shot groups. Just how I have always done it.

Here is what my 5 shot groups looks like:









Basic
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Basic
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Posted: 9/8/2011 6:20:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By ronin556:
I have a G3 clone, FAL, M1A, RFB, AR-10 and SCAR 17s.

The SCAR is the best by far.

G3 problems are a really bad trigger, really dirty action, very poor ergonomics and balance. The worst 308 rifle of the group

FAL is almost perfect, only problem is accuracy is just ok and no where near as accurate as a AR-10 or SCAR

M1A is almost perfect, but accuracy is really poor compared to a AR-10 or SCAR. Almost the best rifle to shoot standing

RFB is a toy, unreliable and ok accuracy.

AR-10 is very very accurate, great trigger and lots of cool way to customize, but very nose heavy, best for shooting off bench.

The SCAR is not the best in all but does everything very well, it is very accurate, controls are great, trigger is good, recoil is less than any of the above rifles, AND the most comfortable to shoot standing.


Clones don't count as a HK91 sorry! the real deal is my favorite. i have owned an ar-10, fal (sprinfields, i had two) and m1a. sold them all over the years and will never sell the 91. i can trick it out, and have. i can swap from my scope to my pvs-4 in seconds. have spare everything including a stock trigger pack since i run a psg1 trigger at 4lbs. and it will shot ANY ammo, ammo that wouldn't fit in a m1a or dropped in the mud.
i would like to try a scar but haven't yet
Basic
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Basic
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Posted: 9/9/2011 9:09:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
Originally Posted By ronin556:


Originally Posted By ronin556:


M1A is almost perfect, but accuracy is really poor compared to a AR-10 or SCAR.

.



No.


Wow you are clueless. Every been to any national matches, shoot at the national match? get a clue.



It's common knowledge that they require work to become that accurate.

Are you contending that out of the box, the M14 type can compete accuracy wise with the box stock AR10 or SCAR?


To become National Match accurate ? Duh, of course "they require work to become that accurate."




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