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Posted: 6/11/2017 1:31:40 PM EDT
[#1]
No.
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Posted: 6/11/2017 2:00:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Currently d2: no
Previous i2 ir/ir: no |
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Posted: 6/11/2017 2:14:21 PM EDT
[#3]
no, on all eight DBALs
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Posted: 6/11/2017 2:25:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
I want to know if you the owner of a Dbal has failed. |
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Posted: 6/11/2017 2:49:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have failed numerous times to turn mine off killing the battery Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I want to know if you the owner of a Dbal has failed. 
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Posted: 6/11/2017 4:05:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Forgetting to turn off killing the batteries
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Posted: 6/11/2017 5:59:09 PM EDT
[#7]
i have a used ITAL-C. it turns itself off after i shoot my 11.5" SBR after every round. i bought it used, had it for over a year before using it and i haven't had the time to even think about fixing or doing more troubleshooting.
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Posted: 6/11/2017 9:36:14 PM EDT
[#8]
DBAL D2, zero issues.
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:53:30 AM EDT
[#9]
I had one fail, right out of the box (DBAL A3). The push button intermittently worked (more often than not). You would have to cycle the button 5-6 times before it would "fire", but even then, it would cut off while it was "on".
I got an RMA# and sent it back to Steiner. They repaired it and sent it back. It was about a 3 week turn-around. Zero issues since then. The other unit I bought at the same time has not had any issues at all. I bought these about 1.5 years ago. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 11:04:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have failed numerous times to turn mine off killing the battery |
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Posted: 6/13/2017 3:17:18 AM EDT
[#11]
I had a DBAL A3 and about 4mos after I got it the illuminator went super dim. So dim you could barely see it in a pitch black room.
Mailed it to Steiner and they got it back to me after about 3 weeks. The DBAL I2 I have had been flawless for the last 2.5 years. |
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Posted: 6/13/2017 8:52:27 AM EDT
[#12]
The only NV IR laser product I've ever had fail were 2 Surefire X400Vs
Steiner seems to make good stuff |
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Posted: 6/13/2017 3:11:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Yes, my DBAL-PL failed this past weekend while on the range at Cola Warrior.
I haven't gotten around to calling them and starting the RMA yet. |
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Posted: 6/13/2017 4:09:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Thanks to everyone who replied and please keep them coming hopefully it'll help others make an informed decision for themselves in either direction. I know a lot of people saw that John Lovell from Telluric Group put out a video: "IR Lasers for Night Vision: ATPIAL vs. DBAL-D2". He stated the Steiner I2 are not reliable and had a pile of them that had/has problems but he didn't go into detail why they failed, so I FB'd him, super nice guy and he took time to respond which is awesome. Here's what I asked him.
Me: SUN 9:44PM John, In your IR illuminator/laser video you mentioned the DBAL I2 had a lot of failures, I was just wondering what was the most common problem and are they with the older LDI or newer Steiners Thanks John: poor zero retention or flat out breaking. I like the D2 most from the steiner family. Please note this is no way intended in bashing Steiner, but just his observation. As noted I'm a happy D2 and OTAL-C owner. I still haven't made a solid decision to buy a ATPIAL-C or go big and sell my D2, bypass the ATPIAL all together and go with the B.E. Meyers MAWL. The only thing that is holding me back is it doesn't have a track record like the ATPIAL does by being beaten to death in the sandbox by guys/gals who aren't gentle with their gear. Or go with Steiner that has the very attractive price of the I2 9007 and all the great reviews from everyone who posted in this thread especially Skypup who has vast amount of knowledge about NV. Another SOF guy Jason Falla of RedBack One (works with Knights Armament IIRC) prefers the DBAL to the ATPIAL. |
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Posted: 6/13/2017 5:52:00 PM EDT
[#15]
I also got a PM from Optics Planet:
Greetings, Unfortunately we do not have the sort of data you are looking for. I would suggest contacting each manufacturer to see if they would provide that data for their products, or you could try contacting TNVC for that sort of data as they conduct end user classes and have much more personal experience in the field with these products. What I can tell you is that we do not see many returns due to manuf defect and in general we sell more of the Steiner DBAL units, the D2 being the highest reviewed but the I2 is also a strong seller mostly due to the price points. Sorry I could not provide the information that you are looking for, please let me know if I can provide any additional help. -Matt S. Hopefully TNVC will chime in since they have the most valuable input of all because of the number of units they sell, classes they teach and straight up no BS this what works, it's expensive or no it's not MilSpec because of this and the most important we stand 110% the stuff we sell. |
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Posted: 6/13/2017 6:42:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I also got a PM from Optics Planet: Greetings, Unfortunately we do not have the sort of data you are looking for. I would suggest contacting each manufacturer to see if they would provide that data for their products, or you could try contacting TNVC for that sort of data as they conduct end user classes and have much more personal experience in the field with these products. What I can tell you is that we do not see many returns due to manuf defect and in general we sell more of the Steiner DBAL units, the D2 being the highest reviewed but the I2 is also a strong seller mostly due to the price points. Sorry I could not provide the information that you are looking for, please let me know if I can provide any additional help. -Matt S. Hopefully TNVC will chime in since they have the most valuable input of all because of the number of units they sell, classes they teach and straight up no BS this what works, it's expensive or no it's not MilSpec because of this and the most important we stand 110% the stuff we sell. |
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Posted: 6/13/2017 7:49:43 PM EDT
[#17]
The Atpial c is appealing but not the illuminator. I live my D2 but it's a tad heavy. I sold my i2 due to seeing the John Lovell vid too.
The MAWL doesn't have the track record and imo is way overpriced. Definitely performs. The A4 looks promising but again with the track record. At least they got the price right. Looks like it will perform. I dunno. The A4 might convince me to sell my D2. Being able to dump my light is very appealing. As of now I don't see any reason to part with my $1000 D2 in favor of another unit with illuminators that don't compete or the MAWL which is 1.5x the price and performs similar. at least fromy experience and what I use it for. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 8:45:12 PM EDT
[#18]
DBAL A3 - no issues to date
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:31:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Very few warranty issues seen on the DBAL-I2s. I try to keep track of questions/comments from purchasers. 90% of the time it's questions that come in regarding the crappy arse manual Steiner ships with them that covers multiple variants. People get confused which one they bought, ask about the military only model, etc. I made up an info sheet I email customers of the I2 now which starts with "throw away the manual that Steiner sent with the I2..." LOL
I was told twice in the last couple of years that they were going to fix the manual, etc. it's never happened. As to real deal "failures" of I2s- I think you'll find in reality they are very rare. I've beat the crap out of several I2s over the years, I've never had loss of zero issues. My original red/IR one on my Arsenal AK has seen 15K rounds easy with it constantly on the rifle. Only "problem" was that I had to move the pressure pad to the lower handguard instead of the side of the receiver as I was replacing velcro a couple times a year. I've lost the caps off both lasers, but the I2 keeps working just fine. A 9007 IR laser/IR illuminator unit on another AK has less mileage but usually gets about 1K rounds a year on it. No issues there yet. OTAL-C is on my son's AK and he averages about 3-4K rounds a year through his. No issues there yet. We basically don't take them off our guns. They are on there all the time, albeit they don't have batteries in until we are training at night. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 7:48:29 AM EDT
[#20]
My DBAL A3 had a bad battery contact, the laser would flicker, go dim or just not turn on at all until I removed the batter pushed in the contact spring and reinserted battery. I it Sent back for a free repair and have not had a single issue since.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 9:51:11 AM EDT
[#21]
I personally have had 2 DBAL I2 Failures. One was a flickering laser during strings of fire, and one shut down on me in a very cold situation while hunting.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 3:13:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I personally have had 2 DBAL I2 Failures. One was a flickering laser during strings of fire, and one shut down on me in a very cold situation while hunting. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 4:38:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sam I know you guys sell a ton of DBAL I2 do you guys see the same type and amount of failures that John Lovell's from Telluric Group see with the I2 not holding zero and a high rate of failure. I'm not sure if its Steiner "Positive Loading" of the windage and and elevation knobs when rotating counter clockwise a factor in the high rate of return. I know Telluric is very aware of this and have more than likely told their customers, but it could be possible the customers didn't want to deal with it and would rather return it instead. Thanks He has branched out and gone out on his own and is no longer with Telluric group, but I will say yes, as a matter of fact I have trained alongside and under John many times at the Telluric Facility and that is where I have witnessed a few DBAL gripes during NV classes. flickering Devices wandering zero's even after conducting a proper zero in accordance with the manual and lasers just not working. I am not sure about the claim of folks not wanting to deal with it and sending it home. By and large the I2 and A3 are the lasers that experience issues at the highest rates. I want to say though that these are not bad lasers by any means, Steiner has good customer service and support and is pretty quick with their support and repairs. If all you can afford is an I2 it still beats not having a Laser at all and odds are it provides you with the capability that you need for many years. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 6:12:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was actually hanging out with John Lovell last night talking shop. He has branched out and gone out on his own and is no longer with Telluric group, but I will say yes, as a matter of fact I have trained alongside and under John many times at the Telluric Facility and that is where I have witnessed a few DBAL gripes during NV classes. flickering Devices wandering zero's even after conducting a proper zero in accordance with the manual and lasers just not working. I am not sure about the claim of folks not wanting to deal with it and sending it home. By and large the I2 and A3 are the lasers that experience issues at the highest rates. I want to say though that these are not bad lasers by any means, Steiner has good customer service and support and is pretty quick with their support and repairs. If all you can afford is an I2 it still beats not having a Laser at all and odds are it provides you with the capability that you need for many years. |
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Posted: 6/21/2017 9:20:01 PM EDT
[#25]
One thing to keep in mind that you might not see if you aren't keep the laser on the rifle regularly or do not shoot a lot-
The keeper for the battery cap can break over time with heavy use, then the cap goes missing. I'm sure you might be able to jury rig something, but without the battery cap the unit would be pretty much useless. So, make sure you have a couple spares. We shoot a little bit more than others might, so it may be just something we are running into. But the loss of the battery cap is a failure point. Do not relay just on the little keeper for the battery cap. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 8:37:39 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One thing to keep in mind that you might not see if you aren't keep the laser on the rifle regularly or do not shoot a lot- The keeper for the battery cap can break over time with heavy use, then the cap goes missing. I'm sure you might be able to jury rig something, but without the battery cap the unit would be pretty much useless. So, make sure you have a couple spares. We shoot a little bit more than others might, so it may be just something we are running into. But the loss of the battery cap is a failure point. Do not relay just on the little keeper for the battery cap. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 10:02:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting you bring that up, I have seen the rubber dry rot and completely deteriorate, I suspect sun/UV damage did this. That said Steiner promptly took care of the issue. It was a one of gripe and i have not seen or heard of it again, until now. People that only shoot a few hundred rounds a year may never have that issue, but if your training a lot, it will likely come up. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 10:23:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was likely a combination of the sun and being on there for years, tens of thousands of rounds, etc. People that only shoot a few hundred rounds a year may never have that issue, but if your training a lot, it will likely come up. I've also had two ATPIALS rubber caps snap as well. Very dry climates play havoc over time on these thin rubber covers. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 3:46:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Gotcha.
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Posted: 6/22/2017 5:14:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Newb question here. Just getting into the NV game and bought an A3. Would someone mind commenting on Steiners advice to not "store the device" with the battery installed? If I take the rifle out once a week, should I be removing the battery for the 6 days its not being used? Or am I fine just making sure its off?
Thanks! |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 5:42:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Newb question here. Just getting into the NV game and bought an A3. Would someone mind commenting on Steiners advice to not "store the device" with the battery installed? If I take the rifle out once a week, should I be removing the battery for the 6 days its not being used? Or am I fine just making sure its off? Thanks! In your case, unless the rifle is used for SHTF type stuff, take the batts out when not in use for 6 days, no need to chance battery issues...And yes if storing a few days insure the system is in the OFF position. The other reason is to avoid battery drainage as we've talked about above. 
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Posted: 6/22/2017 6:26:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most of the removing batteries when not using for long periods of times (especially if in heated environments) is for safety. We always tell our NV customers to always remove batts even when their NV is stored in a safe. BATTERIES CAN AND DO LEAK AT TIMES. Heck, a few months ago I had a couple of dozen AAA in my draw in a card board box and 7 of them leaked, and this was in a 75deg room. In your case, unless the rifle is used for SHTF type stuff, take the batts out when not in use for 6 days, no need to chance battery issues...And yes if storing a few days insure the system is in the OFF position. The other reason is to avoid battery drainage as we've talked about above. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 10:15:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Ditto what Vic said re: leaving batts in, bad idea.
If your concerned about forgetting one, put one in a hollow pistol grip or something similar. I got rid of the BG grip on my Arsenal cause it was a total POS and broke after not much use. But I have a spare CR123 in a little plastic baggie taped to the stock. That's your just in case you forget battery. Then of course extras in gear, etc. Good idea to get into the habit of removing batts from NV, thermal, radios, flashlights, etc. when not in use. We used to keep our flashlights with batts in, with the last battery turned around. Then you just had to flip the battery over to use the light. This also prevented unwanted discharges (light in pack goes off at wrong time, that sort of thing) of light, as well as premature drainage. Never had a battery leak problem when the last one was flipped around like that. |
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Posted: 6/22/2017 10:19:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
DBAL D2, zero issues. |
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Posted: 6/24/2017 1:01:48 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only NV IR laser product I've ever had fail were 2 Surefire X400Vs Steiner seems to make good stuff the X400v is a colossal piece of shit. Basically $750 turd. Everyone stay clear. |
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Posted: 6/24/2017 9:59:28 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
QFT the X400v is a colossal piece of shit. Basically $750 turd. Everyone stay clear. |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 7:01:21 PM EDT
[#37]
D2-fine
I2(x2)-fine A3-green laser failed, fixed in a reasonable amount of time |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 12:18:57 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i have a used ITAL-C. it turns itself off after i shoot my 11.5" SBR after every round. i bought it used, had it for over a year before using it and i haven't had the time to even think about fixing or doing more troubleshooting. |
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Posted: 8/12/2017 4:53:39 PM EDT
[#39]
(4) Steiner DBAL A3's here and zero issues. (Used weekly)
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Posted: 8/12/2017 6:22:38 PM EDT
[#40]
I wish the DBAL failures were similar to carbine malfunctions in that they could be diagnosed and the cause/reason for failure identified.
These DBAL threads frustrate me because I have several LD/steiner lasers. I rarely get a chance to shoot them at night, and I dont like to keep them on during daytime shooting for various reasons. After reading these "failure" threads my faith has been shaken in these units. And the most frustrating part is that I dont have much of a chance to run the units to trial them for myself. I thought I was buying top of the line and now i wonder if I wound up with expensive paper weight. I wish Steiner would address this. It seems like there is a lot of negative feedback that I just don't see with the ATPIAL. I own an ital, otal, i2 and an A3. If I need to change lasers, it is going to get expensive quick. This topic seems to get talked about, but there doesn't seem to be much resolution. When I see guys who say they sent them in for repair, i wonder how long will the repair last? What was wrong with it in the first place? Is mine going to fail? This is critical equipment...if I dont see some explainations pretty soon i am going to dump my steiner products and not look back. |
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Posted: 8/12/2017 11:23:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish the DBAL failures were similar to carbine malfunctions in that they could be diagnosed and the cause/reason for failure identified. These DBAL threads frustrate me because I have several LD/steiner lasers. I rarely get a chance to shoot them at night, and I dont like to keep them on during daytime shooting for various reasons. After reading these "failure" threads my faith has been shaken in these units. And the most frustrating part is that I dont have much of a chance to run the units to trial them for myself. I thought I was buying top of the line and now i wonder if I wound up with expensive paper weight. I wish Steiner would address this. It seems like there is a lot of negative feedback that I just don't see with the ATPIAL. I own an ital, otal, i2 and an A3. If I need to change lasers, it is going to get expensive quick. This topic seems to get talked about, but there doesn't seem to be much resolution. When I see guys who say they sent them in for repair, i wonder how long will the repair last? What was wrong with it in the first place? Is mine going to fail? This is critical equipment...if I dont see some explainations pretty soon i am going to dump my steiner products and not look back. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 4:49:32 PM EDT
[#42]
I have 3 DBAL A3's and have fired many thousands of rounds of 223/556 with them mounted to rifles and a little over 1000 of 308 with the third. No problems at all in three years. Days in nights living with them in the bush. Have never removed the batteries and have even left the one of them in the on position for two weeks while living in the bush, maybe shut it off once or twice.
Two of my units have the coating wearing off from use. Broken a few tape switches, but the units themselves have been solid for me. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 6:31:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish the DBAL failures were similar to carbine malfunctions in that they could be diagnosed and the cause/reason for failure identified. These DBAL threads frustrate me because I have several LD/steiner lasers. I rarely get a chance to shoot them at night, and I dont like to keep them on during daytime shooting for various reasons. After reading these "failure" threads my faith has been shaken in these units. And the most frustrating part is that I dont have much of a chance to run the units to trial them for myself. I thought I was buying top of the line and now i wonder if I wound up with expensive paper weight. I wish Steiner would address this. It seems like there is a lot of negative feedback that I just don't see with the ATPIAL. I own an ital, otal, i2 and an A3. If I need to change lasers, it is going to get expensive quick. This topic seems to get talked about, but there doesn't seem to be much resolution. When I see guys who say they sent them in for repair, i wonder how long will the repair last? What was wrong with it in the first place? Is mine going to fail? This is critical equipment...if I dont see some explainations pretty soon i am going to dump my steiner products and not look back. |
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