Hello guys, I'm looking for an NVG for stargazing (quite hard to find specific comments and product info on this specific point), and kindly ask for your help:

I'm outside USA (so I'm limited basically to Russian photocathodes due to ITAR), and I'm not looking for top performance. My budget is ~USD 1000,00 and I saw there products:

i) Yukon 3x50 gen 1+ (EP33-SF-U) for USD 300,00;
ii) Other Chinese optics, with Gen 2+ Ekran/Gen 3 Katod photocathodes (EPM66G and EPM102G/105G) - comes with a PVS7 like body, and will set me back USD 1.200,00 to USD 1.400,00;
ii) An used ATN Night Shadow "Gen 4" (they don't make their spec sheet available, so I'm guessing something comparable to Gen2+ to Russian Gen 3) - it's a binocular design. Last price in the USA was USD 4.000,00+, I can get one in my country (used) for USD 1.000,00, tough I'm still checking whatever the unit is legit or not.

My main question is if any of you guys have any experience with stargazing with a gen 1 device (even if your stargazing experience was looking at the night sky with it for a few minutes). For what I can check (youtube videos), due to low gain the gen1+ tube have a quite "clean" and somewhat low distortion image. Considering that I'll hook it up on a 8" inch F/6 telescope (after dissembling the device, if necessary), I'm in doubt if it's worth to pay 3x more for a gen2+ device. Also, if the ATN sale is legit, do you think it's worth for the price?

I reiterate that I will only use the device for stargazing... ifI could import a tube from UK, I would get a gen 1 photocascade for USD 120,00 and do a night scope myself . Size, weight, and reliability under shocks/stresses are no significance for me.

Thank you!

Having looked at the night sky with gen 2's and 3's, the higher resolution of the gen 3's would greatly be my preference...

Both are awesome...

That ATN is a digital unit, no-go.

Ekran tubes, as far as I know, have a relatively large pore size on their MCP that makes the resolution a bit low, though that might still be your best bet. Some units with Photonis Gen2(+) tubes in them could be better even compared to Ekran Gen3 in terms of stargazing as they usually have great resolutions. Not always obviously, a spec sheet would be nice. ATN & Armasight won't give you those unfortunately. There could be some export restrictions for Russian tubes, but if they come through China then maybe not.

Here is what gen 3 looks like when attached to a cell phone with a jerry rigged mount. The photo doesn't do it justice. I'd love to see what it can do when attached to a telescope.

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It's truly awesome, and with a telescope capturing lots of light I can put a IR filter to filter out the light pollution.

Also, the owner of the ATN Night Shadow will send pics tonight. From my research, it isn't a digital, is truly a photocathode with something gen2+ like - with the pics I'll certainly know, and also check the blemished, noise, etc (I asked him to take a pic from the sky - he lives in a highly LP area like me). Now I'm trying to find more details about it - probably I'll have to pry it open to adapt it to my needs.

Another good place to check is on cloudynights forum, under the aee subthread.
General concensus there is use a mod-3 monocular which excepts mx10160s and mx11769/uv's. The mod-3 with c-mount option has removeable objective lens and you can thread on a cheap 1.25" adapter to fit into your telescopes focuser.
I wouldnt go any lower than a gen3 for astronomy and would go for a contract omni iv or later.
I guess tnvc has an adapter coming out for a pvs-14 for afocal use too but the mod-3 would be simpler.

I just built a gen3 with omnii vii pinnacle tube for $1300 by buying the housing and sourcing a blem tube. Save up for gen3!

i had a night shadow once - i got it as i wanted to use the binocular part on a monocular - just for a project but i found the quality of the optics were too poor so the binocular eyepiece part is thrown in a drawer .
i would recommend you actually look at the unit before you buy it , not just for the tube but to see if you could live with the optics it uses.
if you want to put what you buy  on a telescope then a monocular might be best,  but a set of goggles should be better for just looking at the night sky - pvs7 type

You're right, I thought it was digital but indeed is not. If it really has a what ATN calls a 4th gen tube in it then it quite surely would be worth the money even if it was blemished, and even if you scrapped the whole housing and used the tube in another one. For that price I doubt it has. I am not aware of anyone but L3 making unfilmed Gen3 that'd be the ATN Gen4.

Like johnelot said, and in my opinion too, a biocular, PVS-7 etc, type viewer is great for stargazing. For shooting stars a monocular has it's advantages as you may spot something outside of the 40 degree view and then point to that direction as they tend to come in groups - you get hints that in a second or two something larger might be coming. A biocular spoils your natural dark adapted vision. Mounting to a telescope makes that irrelevant obviously, but a view for both eyes is always more pleasing.

If you are planning to mount on a telescope then the tube format may pose some issues. A MX10160 format tube will fit to most housings, and for biocular a MX10130. ATN is known to use some rarer formats in some of their units, and from what I've read can even vary between production runs of the same housing/optic model.

For what I gathered, the optics and housing of the units are ubercrap, though the tube is 3rd gen filmless. Mind you, I read a lot of forums bashing ATN for their units being overpriced and the housing prone to failure, but this guy is asking USD 1.000,00 for his unit (it was sold at USD 4.000,00+ in USA, but this model was discontinued - dunno who would pay this when you can get a PVS14 for the price). If the housing and optics aren't total crap, the 90mm with 5x zoom will be nice to use to stargazing as it is. If the tube don't fail on me, it's an absurd value - the guy purchased it in a trip to USA (looks like ITAR only works for me lol) but it was collecting dust.

Due to ITAR, I can't get my hands on a gen3 tube (else I could mount a monocular with spare telescope objective and DSLR lenses). I'm still waiting for pics of the tube (asked for some sky pics, but yesterday the sky was overcast). I can later get a cheap PVS7-like housing from china, if need arise. For use with the telescope I'll have to improvise.

That story how it got out of the US doesn't pass the smell test for me. If you don't have past experience then it'll be hard to tell what it is especially from pics - video would be slightly better. The style of halo it has around brighter stars / planets may tell something. A low light scene would tell a bit too, but even then it might be hard even for people with a lot of experience. If you can, please share the pics so someone here can help you out figuring out what it might be.

Hope it turns out good! I know it's not funny trying to get hold of something good with a reasonable price outside of the US.

Harder digital does sell ITAR free Gen3 (Katod cores with Harder Digital power supplies) and obviously Photonis has good tubes too. Haven't seen much HD tubes on the used market yet, but some Photonis tubes aren't priced that bad at all.

Resolution wise, modern gen2 from europe will be the same or better than current US built Gen3 units.

I'm sure OP would be happy to buy one of your magic tubes.

I was thinking more like a new manufacture 72lp or whatever they are up to photonis tube, is generally better than the average 10-15 year old used and abused run of the mil gen 3 tube he might be able to find overseas for sale.

As usual we speak in different languages.

Also op, a gen1 triple cascade would work well for you if you can find one. Center resoultion is usually decent, not up to modern standards, but good for the price. Not sure why couldnt get one out of the UK.

UK can only export for a list of countries, Brazil not included. I was going to purchase a P8079HP tube from starlightnv.co.uk if it were possible...

Currently, as per my first post, I can get an USD 300,00 gen 1+ chinese tube that doesn't compare to a P8079HP (USD 110,00); gen2+ Russian tubes for USD 1.300+ (and a high probability of paying import taxes); or USD 1K for the "gen 4" tube from the guy that purchased it in Miami - in this last case, I'll wait for him to send me pics and I'll post here.

On a side note: does anyone knows if the high voltage power supply of the gen2/gen3 tubes are fixable in a DIY manner? I fear that is the more probable point of failure in the units that I have access.

Ok, im sure OP can get those in brazil. Maybe you can go hook him up.... Context....

I haven't done it myself, but you can de-pot the tube and pull the PS, I have heard of people doing it, usually replacing a capacitor. I didn't realize Brazil was export restricted like that. Out of your list, that gen4 tube sounds the best, it still may be a russian tube, since ATN used alot of those. If you have more money you might look into tubes from Japan as well, they make good tubes but they are quite expensive.

It's not that Brazil is restricted, is that UK have a whitelist for the export (some 10 countries - like USA, commonwealth, and some from EU).
Anyway, in the end I decided to postpone the purchase, and see if I can get my hands on a P8079HP - if I find someone inclined to violate UK laws and be arrested for treason export it, maybe from a third country, or something like that...

The ATN gen 4 is being sold at and excellent price (even if the optics and tube are subpar, for the price he's asking I can only get a gen1+ here and barely a gen3, even in the USA) but I think it's overkill for me: I have the money, but to purchase it is like going to the car dealership to purchase a USD10K utility car, and then purchasing a USD40K sports car because it was discounted from USD80K.

I would suggest ebay for lower end gen1 tubes, they do pop up there from time to time from a wide and weird variety of sources. You might look into older gen1 and gen2 photonis tubes out of other places in europe, and the lower spec ones should be exportable. You might also look for some older style pvs-4 tubes, a wide variety of countries made those and they used to be fairly widely available, resolution isn't the best though.

Update: the guy from the ATN contacted me again I, in the end, I purchased it (will eat only ramen next few months to compensate). I'll make a review and post pics here as soon as I'm able, as I'm not be home for the next days.

First impressions are very good: there is no distortion on the image, even in the corners; the view is very bright even when almost zero light; the resolution is awesome - way better than I expected it to be, it's on a "I wouldn't pay more for something better" level; and the noise is non existent (only when I'm in a dark room I can see the little specks of noise). Even here in the town I was able to see lots of stars (and the sky here kind of glows red) unfortunately I couldn't insert a skyglow filter in the optics system as it is. It flickers very fast for 1-2 seconds when you look at a bright source, but I think it's adjusting the gain. There's a fine honeycomb mesh in the image, but only when bright enough, as expected.

The optics are kind of "meh" compared to a dedicated binocular, but that was expected - I'll pry it open to check the tube directly as I'll adapt it into a telescope ocular, and I'll keep the current lens assembly - it's a 90mm F1.7 5x zoom lens, pretty nice but with a small view angle. I think a CCTV lens would be perfect for a low zoom view.

Thanks again everyone - as soon as I'm able to get some pics I'll post here. I have a tripod and a DSLR, so I guess maybe I'll even try a video.

I guess you took the right route, despite it being a little risky not knowing exactly what it is. But even if it turned out to be a decent Gen2 the price is not bad. Hope you find out it's unfilmed Gen3 when you open it up!