yup heard that one too... in March, then April, then May, then June, then July, now early August.....

Sorry, but I have never seen a place where more grown men whine about more crap, where they fail to understand the thread that they are in or the exact product the thread represents. Where people cast more aspersions at people who have done nothing but dedicate their time to help this board, to share with this board, and to answer endless questions.    

Companies change their production timelines all of the time, they change how they want to market products all the time. My advice is to get over it or go design your own line of thermal, after all what we are talking about is a luxury item.  

I hope this particular forum does continue to keep going down the crapper as it has been. Until then I will wait to hear from Vic and crew, or SkyPup or one of the other several long timers to give updates on this line of thermal or some other new and interesting products. Thanks guys!

No need for anyone to respond to my $.02. unless it is a Mod or SS who wants to kick me in the nads.

Wut?

And I have seen grown men doing all those things since 2005 when I joined

You certainly have heard quite a bit, thanks for sharing!

Funny!

Are you an alien unfamiliar with humans? Lol. What else is there to do until it drops except harass and bite the hand that feeds. It's our favorite past time. We love to harass each other! It's all in good fun.

That's a pretty big net to cast for you to hope to not catch any fish.

its a long story that goes back several pages

God forbid we discuss a product line that is perfect for using at night.

Maybe we should discuss trannies or take pictures of our dinners... Would you prefer that instead?

Well, we've already discussed all the butt hurt when companies change their product line on one product, there are another 30+ BOSON products left to discuss so have at it!

Love me some popcorn.

I bet you can recite skypup's vet school credentials blindfolded and walking backwards on a balance beam. I've only been here a year and I almost can I've read it so many times.

Yeah, I always bring out the best in technical NV/Thermal discussions, you can always tell by how much you have here to contribute.

Got my Q14b today!!!  Woooooot!































Kidding

MODs, can this whole thread just be closed? This is just going back and forth and at this point, there is nothing technical to discuss because the specs are not official, which is causing this thread to disintegrate. I would rather see a new thread when actual specs are released and a firm release date is communicated.

Back on topic once again:


Tiny and super light view but very powerful for a weapon mount:

You forgot to mention redundant and attention seeking

Also forgot to mention the C-Series does have pic rail mount and reticules for weapon mounting instead of being a hand/helmet scanner.

For the technically oriented thermal users, the new Boson core has an all new powerful GUI for controlling and programming the core:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju5WPd5mjRg

THIS

And the fact that the GUI now provides complete control over the core, although the separate Integral specialized imaging microprocessor is not accessible through the GUI.

has there been any kind of price released on the clip on model

I saw it for pre-order $2200 somewhere. Will try to find it again.

Edit: nevermind. The one I saw was a flir scope with a boson in it

This thread gets better every week.

People are literally plonking down thousands of dollars based on hearsay from a guy who claims ZERO affiliation with the manufacturer. You couldn't script a scam any better.

Not saying it IS a scam, but SkyPup, you never did answer the question? What on Earth is it to you whether or not people buy this shit? If you have no affiliation, aren't a sales rep, aren't a distributer, claim no connection to FLIR then:

1) Why do you give a shit to the degree that you quickly squash any and all dissent with a quip and a 
2) What is your credibility in these matters?

-Stooxie

http://www.phossil.com/thom/Game%20Cam/Flir%20Fart.mp4


Enjoy the view Stooxie!

That thing is lot smaller than smaller than my Flir Vue. And it looks like a much simpler connection to a laptop also than what I'm currently doing with my rooftop scanner and flir vue. I was hoping the 640 would be out by now, but for that price maybe an upgrade in my future.

Thanks

Indeed, the Boson core is tiny and super lightweight.


Video channels CMOS or USB

Control channels: RS-232 or USB




Dig this!


http://www.flircameras.com/boson-development-board.htm

I wouldn't have a clue what to do with that? And certainly don't know what I "could" do with it.

I would just use the the $99 Boson - USB VPC Kit just like what shown in the video. But I really don't need this at all since I have my Flir Vue set up. However, when the 640 Boson becomes available I'm sure I'll want to give strong consideration to an upgrade. I really would like a little more magnification than my 19mm 640 Vue.

Basically, the Boson camera in that video is one full year past due. The 320 camera core that's featured in that video was supposed to be out exactly this time last year. With the 640 out a few months later. I know this because before I bought my Vue last august, I called a couple of the places that just recently got the Boson cameras in for sale regularly between May - August looking for an update.

I did want a weapon mountable Q14 for $2000 and I certainly hope that the release of the Flir products that use the new boson core such as the Q14B or do not suffer a similar timeline between the expected release date and their actual release date.

I have no dog in this fight. I've been lurking but I have to be honest this is a legitimate observation.

I have to say, I'm getting an increasingly defensive and dismissive vibe from the OP and industry leaders on this thread.

I don't know why Skypup is so protective, defensive, and dismissive of anyone who questions FLIR since he isn't affiliated with them. I also don't know how he got such pre-release access without being affiliated either, though. I mean, if he's just a dude who spends his money like the rest of us (albeit decidedly more money than most of us have to spend on such fun goodies), then how does he get to play with these things before anyone else does? It's not like its a sin to have insider access, but it's just hard to maintain the "every man" persona while simultaneously having exclusive access that every man does not. Could I get one of these Q14b or Cs to test out or play with? 

TNVC is always awesome, but in this thread they have also gotten decidedly condescending to anyone who questions FLIR's decisions. It's weird, isn't it? 

And really, I think these are valid questions. I'm no one important, I've just been lurking for months on any thread related to the Q14B because I sold my XD19A in anticipation of these upcoming products. I have to say, it has been CLEARLY and REPEATEDLY advertised by everyone, including FLIR themselves, and Skypup in other threads, that the Q14B will have an adjustable reticle and be able to be weapon mounted. Lots of people got really excited about this. I get what TNVC keeps saying about the specs changing, and no specs being solid until officially released, and marketing talking faster than the engineering department, but maybe they don't realize how much that just comes across as apologetic legalese to most of us. TNVC seems to insist on justifying FLIR's right to change things, which no one here is questioning. Insisting that potential consumers are wrong for being disappointed with what appears to largely be a money-motivated change of one of the main selling points that has been advertised since day one simply because they should know better than to get their hopes up based on non-officially released product specifications is asinine, condescending, and patronizing. This might not be what TNVC has intended, but from the perspective of someone following the thread, that is precisely how their posts here have appeared. 

I mean, come on... the old Q14 had the adjustable reticle, the new boson thermals such as the Q14C that are arguably identical to the B in all parts relevant to firmware/software have the reticle option. It's hardly reasonable to suggest that something about the Q14B design prohibits such a feature. The fact that the Q14B at SHOT was described as being weapon mountable and has repeatedly been advertised as such with a reticle option(s) and then suddenly it isn't speaks to a decision the company made, and I think it is reasonable for people to suggest, as they have been here, that it seems like a marketing decision, so avoid competing with their dedicated TWS lines - and then to express disappointment and discontent at such a ploy. 

If that is, in fact, what FLIR is doing, then it should be us against them - the consumers against the company that wants to remove one of the 3 main selling points it has used to this point to generate interest in the product. Somehow in this thread, it has become "the consumers vs. FLIR, TNVC and Skypup", as a result of their attitudes and responses here, and despite the latter insisting that he has nothing to do with the company. Instead of sharing everyone else's disappointment at the news, they have just constantly been reminding everyone that "the specs weren't set in stone", "the specs were always subject to change", "but it's still going to be a great helmet-mounted and hand-held spotter", and my favorite, "they will sell plenty anyway, so your disappointment is invalid [because apparently your business is unneeded]".

No one in this thread that I've seen has insisted that without the TWS capability, it won't "still be a great helmet-mounted and hand-held spotter", or that "the specs were set in stone and FLIR must honor them!!!!"

Everyone seems to just be saying "well, I was excited because this was advertised as being a great helmet-mounted, hand-held, AND WEAPON-MOUNTABLE spotter, but without that, I'm less excited ...and/or... additionally, I am frustration with what by all accounts appears to be a marketing ploy to take a key feature away simply because it will take away other sales and feel like it is crappy business practice, so I'm likely going to take my business elsewhere as a matter of principle because this is capitalism."

Instead of addressing these actual concerns or criticisms, the self-appointed defenders of FLIR insist on knocking down straw men and dismissing/ insulting (indirectly, of course) anyone who dares saying anything but "wow, thanks o great FLIR, we humbly accept whatever you choose to give us" and anyone who questions the confusing tenacity with which Skypup is defending a company with which he has no affiliation or connection, but who gives him special access. 

As has been said, this thread is really unable to be a tech thread in the absence of any technical specification, which is likely why it has devolved into the thermal Lord of the Flies we see here. 

For drone applications the Boson core will definitely rule as it only weighs 8 grams without a lens and is much easier to operate through a USB.

Not too mention digital video! That'll be a tremendous improvement in and of itself. 

On my Flir Vue the digital internally recorded video is of noticeably sharper detail than what I am able to watch live via the analog RCA jack output. 

Don't quote on this, but I think the digital video out is 1280 X 960.

I, too, am a long-time lurker and new/infrequent poster. I've been reading these boards almost nightly for about 15 years.

My analysis of this thread is that Skypup is a gear-head and passionate fan of thermal/NV products, and Flir in particular. If you guys think he is intense, you should visit the Busse knife forums. Fans will proselytize at least as well as a hired sales rep.

I know I personally blow up the phones at Larue and TNVC....in those many, many phone calls and emails I have got the "scoop" on a couple of releases and other topics before they went public. Thems the perks of being a repeat customer. After the many hours of dealing with these vendors, I sort of consider them friends, or at least friendly. I have had numerous conversations with industry guys that get "off topic" of the sale/transaction for the simple fact that we have similar interst and things in common.

As I read Skypup's posts, I get the sense that this is simply an eccentric hog-hunter with too much money on his hands and he probably calls and emails his favorite companies even more than I do. Just by looking at his "toys" you can tell this guy has been seriously bitten by the gear bug. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, we are beneficiaries of his time and research. Take it for what it's worth.

He obviously has some "in" with Flir or he wouldn't know what he does. But, so what. Maybe he just knows a guy, or buys a ton of their stuff, so they put up with his emails and inquiries.

I am glad he posts here and I have learned a lot from his input and photos. I hope he keeps contributing.

As a guy with 2k burning a hole in my pocket, I am eager to hear anything I can about these Flir units.

Like I said, I'm sure that wasn't your intent. 

I love skypup's comments in this NV forum. I've got nothing against the guy at all. Like I said, even if he WAS working directly for FLIR, it wouldn't be a sin or a problem. Why would it?

I was just pointing out that the questioning of his fervent defense of a company that he has no obvious reason to defend shouldn't be railed against as some kind of trolling or hypocrisy, which is how you came down on Chosos when he sincerely asked out of curiosity, for example. ["See how this all works now chosos? Sounds like you've been around here long enough to know the history then to only ask the same questions when they were answered awhile ago... Have fun!"]

If skypup is just a huge fan of FLIR, then great. The gear and access he has engenders a reasonable conclusion that he might be affiliated somehow with FLIR. How do we know whether he's a fan or a rep unless we ask? It's not like most of us know you guys personally. No one here is taking shots at you or skypup, myself included.

Everyone is just pissed that FLIR is pulling what looks like a fast one. As I said... there seems to be NO technological reason why the Q14B couldn't include an adjustable reticle, since it's present in both previous versions and alternative versions of this optic. They've been saying it would be since day one. Suddenly it isn't... BUT LOOK AT THIS OTHER COOL THERMAL OPTIC OVER HERE THAT IS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME, BUT ARBITRARILY WEAPON MOUNTABLE!!!  Then when someone expresses their unfavorable opinion about such a move, the response here is essentially, "well, they will sell plenty anyway and don't need your money, so who cares what you think?" and "it's your own fault for getting excited about specs that were subject to change, so who cares what you think?" 

Years ago on here I wrote a muti-part, detailed breakdown of HOW a vendor famous for his ego could be selling Gen III PVS-14's he claimed were "rated" for .308 recoil. The vendor in question got, shall we say ... pissy

I've watched this thread and the recent product modifications announced ... or should I say unannounced ... by FLIR with interest but no sense of surprise. I won't do a detailed analysis because I've learned first hand AR15.com's management protects the companies underwriting their existence - so I'll be brief.

A Q14B selling for $ 1,999 with a reticle and all the other amazing capabilities previously announced or hinted at would dramatically alter downwards the margin realized by the vendors selling them while at the same time greatly increasing the technical knowledge and support burden that would fall on those vendors when people buying the $ 1,999 units are calling with questions and problems. It's a classic lose-lose scenario from a business sense.

As noted somewhere in the recent discussions, FLIR's revenue stream from these civilians products is relatively minor compared to what they realize from sales to DoD, Federal, state and large municipality LEO's. 

Note: I am NOT criticizing the quality of FLIR's products, their business practices, their vendors business practices or any individuals commenting on this thread. I am merely pointing out what has been obvious from the moment the Q14B for $ 1,999 was announced - either FLIR was going to be producing these units for a ridiculously low wholesale sales price point AND was going to have to staff up their technical support teams to spare the vendors from a crush of user questions/problems ... or something was going to have to change.

I wouldn't have been no where near as pissed about the change if two FLIR sales reps hadn't suggested it would be worth selling my Q14 to place a pre order for the Q14B, they promised it would be superior in every way including as a TWS. So I sold my Q14 then found out that it was not going to be a TWS. I called FLIR talked to Andrew & Angelo, they apologized for their sales reps costing me $2k on my Q14 and asked if I wanted one of their boson TWS or another Q14 (no boson and at almost full price) , I asked why the Q14B was not going to be a TWS they just said the TWS was built different to handle the shock. They said they would set me up with one of their new boson weapons sights to make everything right. They asked to give them until Monday to come up with a price for me and change my order info. Well Monday came and went. I waited a week and still no contact so I tried contacting them one more time just to get blown off again. I haven't dumped the cash so have here (my funds are very limited) but I've spent at least $10k on FLIR over the last few years, after this I probably won't be doing that anymore.  

Once again, can we please close this thread and the other until FLIR releases official specs?

I also sold my q14 based upon false information in this thread and it cost me thousands because the comments made in this thread also impacted the resale value of my used device.

We can keep OP's thread open, it is not a thread about hand held Thermals scanners, it is a thread about Clip-On TWS with pic rails for weapon mounting and reticules for accurate shooting.

This thread is not about selling and marketing products and totally irrelevant, but as you stated it is another good reason why ATNs 20% return rate is going to have to change if they want to compete with products with a <0.5% rate.

I called FLIR to cancel my Q14 pre-order and they talked me out of cancelling.  They told me to give it a month till the specs were finalized.  
I'll give it another couple of month and if the Q14 is not weapons mountable then I'll get  something else.

Barliman is exactly right. Once again, for the REAL truth we need look no further than FLIR's most recent quarterly presentation:

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/FLIR/3017672445x0x939114/4C67EF88-A350-4C44-9066-C3A74D2AA688/FLIR_Q1_2017_Earnings_Call_Slides_vFINAL.pdf

They aren't hiding anything! They have $608 million in backlog to fulfill (likely government, LEO and OEM contracts) and if they go and render it all obsolete or kill its value by releasing the big monster game changer then the GAAP accounting issues will be just first in a long line of nasty problems. Look how proud they are of Lepton and how quiet they are of Boson.

Like Barliman, I don't fault FLIR at all! They aren't set up to be a consumer company. From what I can see they are set up to be an OEM. They want to make the cores and let everyone else make the products. Of course, they have packaged products as well, but there HAS to be a market large enough to warrant the end user support and maintenance which is a massive expense. If you're just selling cores you don't have that expense, you just have to support your resellers.

So what's my reason for posting here?

I just want to help folks, including myself, latch on to something real so hard earned funds are matched up to realistic expectations. I'd buy FLIR/Boson/whateverthefuck in a nanosecond if I believed in my heart that they were a consumer oriented company that would respond to what I am looking for in a thermal camera. I am not the right audience, though, and that's what people here would do well to concern themselves with. That might totally change in the future, but isn't the case now. If you're DoD or LEO or marine and it's not your money (or you have enough money not to care), and you need a very purpose built device, and you don't need/want the bells and whistles? Or you're happy to buy a core and tinker with it yourself, then you're in the right audience.

My FLIR LS-X and Armasight Zeus Pro were both excellent units but 100% built for that limited role, military mindset.

What's my credibility? Just someone who does sales and sales strategy for a company 10X the size of FLIR who's been watching these kinds of metrics for 20 years, and likes to lay down as many deer as I can when hunting season starts!

-Stooxie

I have no reason to defend ATN but that's a totally false equivalency, and yes, this entire thread has been nothing but selling and marketing vaporware.

-Stooxie

This thread is packed with disinformation. I would like to see all of the Boson threads closed until detailed specs and finalized pictures can be released to the public. I agree with many of the other users - this is vaporware until we have some firm specs and not a floating target.

Damage has been done here. It might just be better to let cooler heads prevail and remove the threads until something finalized can be shared with the group. There is zero change this thread will come back as a technical discussion even if you keep quoting the negative comments and posting tidbits about specs. People are pissed, and rightly so.

Contrary to your imagination, thread has nothing to do with any sales/marketing whatsoever, and the real reason so many vendors do not carry ATN products is the high product return rate.

Maybe you should just simply quit reading about the Boson C-Series Clip-On Thermosight in OP's thread so you will not be so pissed in this thread instead

You seem shocked to discover that a large multinational corporation sells the majority of its products and services to national and international government services Mil/LE/Security, etc?

BTW, FYI, Germanium is also a critical strategic rare earth element that is controlled 100% by the DOD for national defense purposes and it production and use has a finite limit.


https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R41744.pdf

The conversations on this thread has been and will continue to be interesting to read. Makes me appreciate more & more the advantages of  being too poor to afford this stuff. I don't have to deal with the stress some people seem to be experiencing on how to spend money.

Haha, I know!


What is so doggone hilarious to me is that over and over again these same people here keep wasting their time wondering, hypothesizing, conjecturing, imagining, and dreaming about what I do with my money and my time and my FLIR gear on my property successfully eliminating the vermin from my property and then they want to censor me for saying anything about it