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6/25/2017 7:35:25 PM
6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 3/12/2017 1:42:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 2:19:01 AM EDT
More than likely the people you heard it from never tried it on a 2 way range before. First of your depth preception sucks under NODs and when you combine that with being suddenly awoken in the middle of a deep sleep, stumbling around with NV would only complicate the matter 100 times over. You'd be better off hunkering down with a cell phone calling the PO PO, letting them know where you are also if your armed, what your wearing etc and letting them deal with it. If you had to retreive a love one going white light may be a better option.
Don't get me wrong it can be done, but most people don't train enough to be proficient with firearms let alone NV.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 2:58:06 AM EDT
You'll still be a lot faster, more aggressive, and have a few more tricks up your sleeve with strong handheld and weapon lights.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 6:44:27 AM EDT
I know there are people here with a million times more experience than me, but just from the fact how hard it is to navigate tight spaces, and you'd need to do it quite silently in this case, I doubt it's going to work without a considerable amount of training.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 7:06:43 AM EDT
Haha no, as much as I like my night vision setup, there's no way I'm going to have time to put on my helmet with PVS-14 and grab my rifle and turn on my D-BAL A3 IR light and IR laser. It's way more practical to just grab the handgun on the nightstand and turn on the light that's mounted to it. Maybe grab a shotgun or rifle with a pressure pad switch flashlight if I think I have time.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 8:03:40 AM EDT
No chance in a surprise HD role. In the role of hey I know in advance HD, there's where nv excels. I keep referring people to watch the movie 13 hours if they want to see nv as a force multiplier in a defensive role. Of course that's the military so notice I did not say HD use.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 10:06:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2017 10:08:02 AM EDT by lilMAC25]
Originally Posted By D_J:
I sometimes read about folks who mention that as part of their HD setup, they plan to throw on their NVGs and use it to clear the house in the dark. That often leave me with with a look.

But in all reality, is there any place for night vision in home defense or other quick response night time activities given that you'd have to pause first to install batteries in your PVS 14 and IR laser before making use of either?
View Quote


Many people do not remove batteries from their NOD. Many people practice clearing their house with NOD. Many people do not have children in the house.

Tons of mitigating factor. Personally, I'd go SBR and white light.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 10:39:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2017 10:58:00 AM EDT by firemedic2000]
White light with strobe. Now there are situations where nvgs are warranted in clearing and it's all a matter of training. If you do not train to do it. Then no. But to go after an intrudr in your home wearing no.

Now that said I keep one of my pvs14 loaded and if I hear something out side (I live in a stilt house) I use them to look out the windows. To scan property with. If do go outside the home I will use a nvg with a laser to search property with along with a thermal handheld mono. Caught two pos breaking in to cars across the road one night. Oh there are no street lights where I live. Rural

But I've used nvgs for 25 years from driving gun jeeps to boats 50mph at night so I'd feel naked without them.

Again not jumping up and putting on if I hear something in house.

Only had problems since they started building F'ing subdivisions several miles away and putting in section eight because they can't sell the damn things. That's all I'm saying about this. Shot at asses trying to steal my boat trailer a few years back. Now I have to keep it chained. I think the word has got out though to stay away from that crazy F'ers house he'll kill you. Haven't had any problems since


Yeah if I'm outside I do not want them to know where I'm located. If I'm going into a home sometimes nvgs sometimes not it just depends on the mission.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 10:53:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2017 10:55:38 AM EDT by firemedic2000]
Dlb tap
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 10:54:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2017 11:00:54 AM EDT by firemedic2000]
Oh yeah if some break into your home and it's just you and your wife and your in the same rm. Do not go looking for the intruders. Keep quite and let them come to you. You have the advantage of surprise. If you go looking for them and they hear you then they have the advantage of surprise.

If you have children in the house and can get them in the same rm do it. Setup an ambush point and wait. If you can't get to your kids and you can see the intruders hit with force and speed. Keep shooting until they are down. Be aware where you fire though. Do not stand still keep moving and shooting. If you do not need a light don't use it if you do use it. But whatever you do shoot and move until they are down. Stay low as you move and fire. Practice is good. Dry runs. But the best thing you can do is to have a security system and lights on the outside. I have alarms, camaras and motion sensors. If you step a foot on my property I'll know it. Even when I'm not home.

Everyone has there on idea. This is how I was trained and how I will do it.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 12:46:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By D_J:
I sometimes read about folks who mention that as part of their HD setup, they plan to throw on their NVGs and use it to clear the house in the dark. That often leave me with with a look.

But in all reality, is there any place for night vision in home defense or other quick response night time activities given that you'd have to pause first to install batteries in your PVS 14 and IR laser before making use of either?
View Quote
The simplest of questions require the longest, most complex answers. Your question deserves a book. The short answer is that time based elements probably negate the ability to deploy NODs in a home defense role - but that's PROBABLY and all situations are different. If you don't already know whether or not a specific tool will serve you well in a given situation then the assumed answer is that it probably won't. If you train and prepare for the likeliest of situations then the answer may change. Put yourself on the clock and see how long it takes to prepare your levels of defense from a moment's notice - you'll find a lot of answers there.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 12:55:21 PM EDT
The reality of a bump in the night for most of us is you'll stumble to your CCW piece, barely dressed, maybe have a light.. then you work from there.

It's not reasonable for regular people to sleep like they are in a patrol base. Your money would be better spent on $2-4k worth of hardening/alarm solutions for your house before NVG things are considered.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 2:04:20 PM EDT
white light is infinitely more piratical for this application; ready to go at the push of a single button.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 2:15:47 PM EDT
I use the below for HD and I haven't had any break ins. Coincidence? Who knows.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 2:22:05 PM EDT
You're assuming I sleep without my helmet on. Always be ready bro.

But seriously, if someone is in my house(pretty small), white light is my first option. If there's odd noises outside, the NV will get fired up to peek out some windows, and if I need to go outside I would definitely use NV.

I live on a farm and we've had people rummage around and steal shit, I think it would be amazing to surprise someone with rubber buckshot or bear spray from the complete darkness. OR is fucky with deadly force on your own property so I can't go lethal without fearing for my life. But bear spray would be hilarious, most thieves around here are just looking for a quick and easy pick.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 2:22:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By unpleasant:
The reality of a bump in the night for most of us is you'll stumble to your CCW piece, barely dressed, maybe have a light.. then you work from there.

It's not reasonable for regular people to sleep like they are in a patrol base. Your money would be better spent on $2-4k worth of hardening/alarm solutions for your house before NVG things are considered.
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The very best home protection is a designated guard dog that is socialized to live with you and your family. A German Shepard is a good generic choice. They should not be vicious breeds like pit bulls. Their job is to warn you, and scare away intruders. They are wireless and near impossible to defeat. Gives you time to wake up and think about what's going on. I live on a farm, so the intruders can be coyotes, weasels, bears, bobcats, cougars, or the 2 legged meth monkeys looking for shit to steal. We have an Anatolian Shepard that stays outside at night and warns of anything that does not belong there.

That said, I have a PVS-14 and a IR illuminator on a lanyard that goes around my neck, and a loaded high capacity shotgun next to the bed outfitted with a TLR-2-HL white light. I also have a 5.56 rifle with a gen 3 night vision scope within reach. The dog usually trees or corners whatever has come around. Shining a white light at something usually chases it away so I like to see what I'm up against first with the NVD.

They key here, and the big take away is the dog keeps anything from getting into the house. The NVD is used to look out the windows to see what's going on outside.

Once someone is in the house it's too late for night vision. Now your in a worse case scenario, and night vision probably isn't going to be any help. You need to train for a response that fits your house, so that there is little decision making needed when you are panicked and half asleep, and need to make life or death decisions.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 2:31:04 PM EDT
For me, in a time bond response to a bump in the night I'm grabbing a pistol with light and laser that's locked near the bed (I have kids).

My nvd and night fighting carbine are reserved for advanced warning situations like civil unrest during natural or unnatural disasters. For example. Angry mob ravaging the hood, etc... Of course I live in suburbia to minimize the exposure to such things.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 4:26:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2017 4:29:03 PM EDT by NothingClever]
This is like the saying everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

When I lived in Tampa I had a bump in the night. Big 4000 square foot house. Lots of rooms to hide in.

Wife and other person stayed in our master bedroom and I went hunting with my AR and white light.

Smartest decision? Probably not. But when it happens a million thoughts go through your head. Should I call the police? What if it turns out something just fell and it's a waste of time?

When you're creeping slowly in the dark you start to wonder if the perp heard you and is just camping in a corner ready to pop you when you walk into that particular room. You wonder if there is more than one. If they are well equipped. What they will do to your wife if you fail.

Not fun. Even though I was clearing it still felt like I was in defense. I had to be careful. Think about bullet trajectory. ID targets.

Bad guys don't give a fuck about that. Much easier.

Looking back, having nods would have made me feel MUCH better. Much.

But it was a big place.

Turned out to just be heavy stuff falling over after being stowed poorly earlier.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 5:36:22 PM EDT
Suppressed sbr with a white light on my side of the bed and my wife has an m&p with a white light on her side.
Our boys bedrooms are between our bedroom and the front entry so we have to be aggressive to get the boys out and into our master bath. (one way in, one way out safe room) I lead down the hall and secure it and the entry and hold tight while the wife gets the boys out and retreats to the safe room. After she is secure, I go hunting. I have strategically placed night lights through the house that let me see where I am going but does not illuminate me. Clear the house and then rotate the bezel on the 952v and flip the Nods down and get down to business.

It takes the sheriff over an hour to make it here. I am my only line of protection and I can not rely on law enforcement.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 5:59:52 PM EDT
Defending a house in the dark is hard.
That's why I plan to bail out my bedroom window and attack through the front door.
Turn the tables and give the bad guys the hard job of defending a house. And it's not even theirs.
They won't stand a chance.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 6:30:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 7:06:19 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By D_J:
Thanks everyone for the feedback, and feel free to add more comments.

For the record, I've had several days of room clearing/active shooter training - just not with any night vision training yet. We have around 5500 sq ft, including a basement level so it takes a few minutes to check each room even if done quickly.

Luckily, we are at the top of a long flight of stairs and the kids are across the hall. So anyone coming for us has to defeat the alarm, avoid awaking the dogs and then face a pretty fatal funnel. Immediate access is a M&P9 w/x300u, while backup is a suppressed SBR w/insight WML.


We live in a very low crime area, in a very small neighborhood. In the 13 years we've been here, I've had to get up and check the house maybe twice. But now that I have a 14 and associated gear, I was trying to figure where it fits in my existing plans.
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Pffft. 5500 ft?! You want to chase criminals out/keep them away? Just task them with cleaning the place! I couldn't imagine keeping up with cleaning on 5500 sq feet lol.
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 7:12:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 8:25:37 PM EDT
Might want to consider adding some tech to your plan. Going down to clear my basement is a good way to get shot if there is anyone down there, open noisy staircase that is backlit at night from outside with lots of hard cover in the basement itself... 

As a result it's layered with motion sensors and cameras. 
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 8:34:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2017 8:37:29 PM EDT by lilMAC25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FiveToOne:
white light is infinitely more piratical for this application; ready to go at the push of a single button.
View Quote



HOIST THE MAINSAIL! LET GO THE JIB!
Link Posted: 3/12/2017 10:38:27 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lilMAC25:



HOIST THE MAINSAIL! LET GO THE JIB!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lilMAC25:
Originally Posted By FiveToOne:
white light is infinitely more piratical for this application; ready to go at the push of a single button.



HOIST THE MAINSAIL! LET GO THE JIB!


A Cutlass would be piratical also
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 12:15:08 AM EDT
::shrug::

With three dogs and no kids, I don't Walter Mitty "HD" scenarios all too much.

That being said, I keep my Ops-Core with my ANVIS mounted and flipped up on top of the dresser next to the bed--and I keep batteries in the LPBP. Maybe it's the wrong answer... but LPBPs are relatively cheap, I have spares--and even more spare battery trays, and I've never had problems leaving batteries in them.

If I were inclined to grab the NODs, I keep the Ops-Core with the dial open, the battery pack "off," and the ANVIS flipped up. Grabbing and putting them on at night is a simple matter of popping the helmet on my head, twisting the dial, flicking the switch, and dropping the NODs, it takes more time to type than to actually do.

~Augee
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 10:24:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2017 10:47:13 AM EDT by Spartikis]
I consider there to be 3 different levels of home defense. HD I would say there are different levels.

level 1 - No warning. The bad guy is either already in your house when you walk in or managed to get beak in silently while you slept, maybe a door/window was unlocked, alarm was off, etc... Youre going to have to fight them off with whatever you have on you at that moment. There is not much you can do to prepare for this other than be physically fit, know how to fight both hand to hand and close quarters shooting with pistols.

Level 2 - Some Warning. Your alarm goes off, dogs starts barking, you hear a window/door breaking, someone knocks over trash cans, etc... You will have some time to work with, probably a minute or less. Thats plenty of time to grab a gun and toss on a plate carrier. if you have time then grab a phone and dial 911.

Level 3 - Active threat. Natural disaster, riots, civil unrest, or other SHTF situations. This really the situation where all of that tactical gear most arfcommers own really makes sense. Its the only home defense situation where you would have enough warning and time to have all of your gear out and ready to use. Its also highly likely there will be power outages making NV a true game changer and law enforcement response time will be greatly delayed on non-existent.

Even if you left batteries in your NV and IR laser I just dont see there being enough time or need for them in level 1 and 2. By using white light your spouse or other family members with a firearm can also work with you, Also someone might flip the lights on and you will have to flip up your NODs, and in my house there is enough night lights and other LEDs from electronics that I cant use NV in my home at night anyways. I have to go around the house turning everything off and unplugging devices to get it dark enough to use. I just feel it really works best in level 3 where you know there is a active threat.

FWIW, Having a safe room will help buy even more time, and its as simple as adding a dead bolt to the door of your master bedroom. Just like you do a family fire or tornado drill you should do the same for home defense. Teach your kids to run to your bedroom if the alarm goes off and work with your spouse, my wife knows to grab her pistol, hide behind the mattress and dial 911, while she does that Ill grab my rifle and plate carrier and will put myself between her and the door.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 11:39:00 AM EDT
I maintain a small herd of Trogdor Burninators on our property. Have not had any problems with peasant break-ins.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 4:13:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 4:26:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spartikis:
snip: Also someone might flip the lights on and you will have to flip up your NODs, and in my house there is enough night lights and other LEDs from electronics that I cant use NV in my home at night anyways. I have to go around the house turning everything off and unplugging devices to get it dark enough to use. /snip
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Flip them up? Most people only have nvgs over one eye. Use the other eye in that situation.
Unless you have the tv going and neon signs, they should be fine.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 4:31:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 4:43:09 PM EDT
There is no correct eye.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 5:12:24 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By D_J:

HE'S GOT IT OVER THE WRONG EYE!
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That's what I was thinking, lol.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 6:42:24 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By louisianarebel:

Flip them up? Most people only have nvgs over one eye. Use the other eye in that situation.
Unless you have the tv going and neon signs, they should be fine.
View Quote

+1

If someone flips the lights on you then the reaction is the same as a white light transition. The only difference is that you are not controlling the transition.

You don't need deep dark for the NVD to work - you only need the deep dark for the NVD to provide an advantage. You don't lose your eyes when the lights go on, just the advantage.

I'm still on the other side of this issue. Most situations would not warrant the time being diverted to the use of NVDs but bright light exposure is not a real problem for a modern war-capable NVD in capable hands. Even if you do have the time to divert, you don't necessarily KNOW that you have spare time so these decisions often get delayed indefinitely in real life. White light attached to the weapon is available nearly instantaneously.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 6:46:41 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
There is no correct eye.
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There is no "correct eye" but I still shoulder the carbine pretty high and I don't want the MNVD smashing into the carbine. I mount the MNVD on the eye opposite the carbine to cure that - as do many others.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 7:48:36 PM EDT
White light hands down. I do however clear my 5 acres around the house with nods.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 8:38:02 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By alacop:
White light hands down. I do however clear my 5 acres around the house with nods.
View Quote
Exactly - but that's combining flexibility of movement that you just do not have in close quarters. That is one of the main operative principles here. Movement will be ducted and limited inside a house.
Link Posted: 3/14/2017 8:43:19 AM EDT
I don't. I live in a small apartment. If someone knows their stuff, I have less than two seconds to get ready. I own mine for recreation and hurricane Katrina style shtf.
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