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Posted: 1/19/2017 11:39:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Probably past its life. Post a pic of the input of the tube.
Considering it was made in 1983 not bad. |
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Posted: 1/20/2017 4:02:50 AM EDT
[#2]
exausted tube,i guess.
noise at the center is caused by gas ion strikes,which is an indicator of imperfect vacuum inside of the tube. i do have something very similar. 
Dino,does a worn PC look like this? 
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Posted: 1/20/2017 9:49:52 AM EDT
[#3]
I concur, tube is on its last legs. Though I have seen the center ion strike scintilation on perfectly good and operational tubes as well (new gen1 tubes). But if the light gain is crappy thats a pretty good sign its going.
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Posted: 1/20/2017 12:02:30 PM EDT
[#4]
You guys are confirming what was obvious (but I was hoping there was something I may have missed/done wrong). Thanks for the feedback. A message has already been sent to the dealer. I paid a little more at the same dealer for a fairly late date L-3 tube and that one tears through the darkness.
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Posted: 1/20/2017 12:28:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably past its life. Post a pic of the input of the tube. Considering it was made in 1983 not bad. Am I an idiot for going the direction of the AN/PVS-4 for use in its intended role because the system is aging out?  When it works properly it satisfies my requirements but I need to be able to support it and I have only ever seen pictures of new tubes for these scopes (Photonis). All the replacement tubes that I see are used, so replacing a tube is a crapshoot. 
Seriously, when this thing is running well, it's a performer - right down to the multi-aperture / multi-filter lens cap that adds MASSIVE versatility to use of the scope. If I do have to abandon the PVS-4 then I will probably try to make use of the lens caps on my next scope (or at least make use of the technology). I'm not a bottom feeder. Sure, I like to pay as little as possible, but I'm willing to pay what I need to pay for functioning gear. I was drawn to the system because of its positive attributes, not because it was the least expensive option (which it is not). If I paid more for a newer system would there be replacement tubes available for that scope? |
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Posted: 1/20/2017 2:13:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
exausted tube,i guess. noise at the center is caused by gas ion strikes,which is an indicator of imperfect vacuum inside of the tube. i do have something very similar. http://i68.tinypic.com/2hf5mxd.jpg Dino,does a worn PC look like this? http://i63.tinypic.com/2lmwab6.jpg That photocathode looks okay. They take a light brown color as they get older. Not to say they are dead. I have light brown colored 25mm tubes that still perform well. It is just a easy way to tell a tube is showing age. |
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Posted: 1/20/2017 2:22:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Am I an idiot for going the direction of the AN/PVS-4 for use in its intended role because the system is aging out? When it works properly it satisfies my requirements but I need to be able to support it and I have only ever seen pictures of new tubes for these scopes (Photonis). All the replacement tubes that I see are used, so replacing a tube is a crapshoot.
Seriously, when this thing is running well, it's a performer - right down to the multi-aperture / multi-filter lens cap that adds MASSIVE versatility to use of the scope. If I do have to abandon the PVS-4 then I will probably try to make use of the lens caps on my next scope (or at least make use of the technology). I'm not a bottom feeder. Sure, I like to pay as little as possible, but I'm willing to pay what I need to pay for functioning gear. I was drawn to the system because of its positive attributes, not because it was the least expensive option (which it is not). If I paid more for a newer system would there be replacement tubes available for that scope? I still use a PVS-4 if that tells you anything. Know many others here who use a PVS-4 as well. TNVC sold refurbished ones just a couple years ago. It is a very well made housing with very good optics. Mine is upgraded to Gen 3 but for years I used Gen 2 with great results. You can still buy new Gen 2 and 3 tubes for them. They are big and heavy but you can use them as a club and they still work great ! I don't run around playing Rambo so a little big and heavy but well made scope works fine for me. I am not a high speed guy and generally like older gear. I like US milspec older gear. I don't buy ATN or any of the big box store stuff. I roll my own. |
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Posted: 1/20/2017 3:43:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still use a PVS-4 if that tells you anything. Know many others here who use a PVS-4 as well. TNVC sold refurbished ones just a couple years ago. It is a very well made housing with very good optics. Mine is upgraded to Gen 3 but for years I used Gen 2 with great results. You can still buy new Gen 2 and 3 tubes for them. They are big and heavy but you can use them as a club and they still work great ! I don't run around playing Rambo so a little big and heavy but well made scope works fine for me. I am not a high speed guy and generally like older gear. I like US milspec older gear. I don't buy ATN or any of the big box store stuff. I roll my own. Who has new tubes for sale? If this thing is supportable then I'm squared but I can't find new tubes. Quite frankly, a used tube as good as my L-3 tube would do the trick as a spare. |
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Posted: 1/20/2017 3:59:39 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who has new tubes for sale? If this thing is supportable then I'm squared but I can't find new tubes. Quite frankly, a used tube as good as my L-3 tube would do the trick as a spare. You have to call around as it is a limited market and dealers don't usually advertise them. Many have dust covered NOS tubes sitting on a shelf. Try Nait,Ed Wilcox,AEO and Night Vision Depot for starters. I see them pop up on the auction sites from time to time as well. TNVC does not usually deal in this older gear but it never hurts to call and ask. Harlikwin may be one to ask as well as I know he is a fan of older stuff and may know other places to buy. The tubes are around but you need to do some digging. |
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Posted: 1/20/2017 9:28:40 PM EDT
[#10]
The vendor is now telling me to look for a small area of potting on the side of the tube. There is supposed to be a potentiometer there for adjusting brightness. From my communication with them there is no way they know that I am a Test Engineering Technician and that I will take necessary steps to learn what I need to do. They gave me zero instructions regarding how to properly adjust brightness. How much should I adjust at a given time? How do I know when I'm done? Is there some kind of a sweet spot? Do I just try to match the brightness level of my L-3? Is there a possibility of smoking the tube by over-driving it? If this is legit then I would like to save the tube. It looked pretty clean.
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Posted: 1/20/2017 10:00:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Don't mess with the pots unless you know what you are doing. They are set at the factory by expensive machines.
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Posted: 1/20/2017 10:19:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't mess with the pots unless you know what you are doing. They are set at the factory by expensive machines. See. That was my thinking, and yet some very big three-letter named tube vendor in Texas told me to just dig the potting out of the side of the tube and adjust it. Is your recommendation to push back for a return? |
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Posted: 1/20/2017 10:21:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Yes, adjusting screen brightness just makes for a noisy bright tube. Does not increase gain at all. It is a common trick to make a low performing tube look more bright. Only a fly by night vendor would tell you to do this.
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Posted: 1/20/2017 10:38:22 PM EDT
[#14]
Find the pots, mark their positions carefully and have fun twisting...
Within reason --You can always set them back. Sometimes pots get a bit 'noisy' --particularly with age, [wiper makes a poor contact and the effective set value changes] and that may have happened in your case. Initially, turn them in sequence as small a rotation as you can, if one of the pots is noisy, you will likely see a change in the screen immediately. 
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Posted: 1/20/2017 11:34:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See. That was my thinking, and yet some very big three-letter named tube vendor in Texas told me to just dig the potting out of the side of the tube and adjust it. Is your recommendation to push back for a return? Lol, thats funny... Id return or exchange it. |
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Posted: 2/6/2017 4:21:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol, thats funny... Id return or exchange it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
See. That was my thinking, and yet some very big three-letter named tube vendor in Texas told me to just dig the potting out of the side of the tube and adjust it. Is your recommendation to push back for a return? Lol, thats funny... Id return or exchange it. After a little back-and-forth with the vendor I decided to request a return. The vendor wants me to pay a restocking fee. He didn't mention it but I assume that I am supposed to eat the exorbitant shipping that he charged me initially, also. I just amortized the exorbitant shipping cost into the price of the tube initially but, now that I am returning it, that's another $20 that I don't want to eat. All of this sounds bogus to me because I consider this to be a defective part issue - I think the vendor should eat the costs of the defect, not the buyer. |
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Posted: 2/6/2017 9:51:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After a little back-and-forth with the vendor I decided to request a return. The vendor wants me to pay a restocking fee. He didn't mention it but I assume that I am supposed to eat the exorbitant shipping that he charged me initially, also. I just amortized the exorbitant shipping cost into the price of the tube initially but, now that I am returning it, that's another $20 that I don't want to eat. All of this sounds bogus to me because I consider this to be a defective part issue - I think the vendor should eat the costs of the defect, not the buyer. If you bought it on ebay, they require the Seller to pay the return shipping -regardless of what Seller claims... If there is something wrong with the item. You should see the lengths the Chinese Sellers go to trick folks to avoid having to pay the EXHORBITANT US shipping -with a tracking number. I've got returning things to them [on infrequent occurrences] down to a SCIENCE!
If you used ebay and need suggestions, message me... |
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Posted: 2/7/2017 11:14:48 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you bought it on ebay, they require the Seller to pay the return shipping -regardless of what Seller claims... If there is something wrong with the item. You should see the lengths the Chinese Sellers go to trick folks to avoid having to pay the EXHORBITANT US shipping -with a tracking number. I've got returning things to them [on infrequent occurrences] down to a SCIENCE!
If you used ebay and need suggestions, message me... It looks like they folded. We'll see for sure when the money goes back in my account. |
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Posted: 2/7/2017 2:13:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It looks like they folded. We'll see for sure when the money goes back in my account. If you filed a "CASE" with ebay, they will likely find in your favor if your case has merit. If you filed a "REQUEST" the Seller can screw around with you until such time as a Case is permitted to be filed. Be extremely polite and gracious in all commo w/ the Seller, stick to a point without going overboard, and request a "RETURN SHIPPING LABEL" that the Seller has to provide. Give the Seller a chance to resolve the issue/s, stick to your guns, and logically and WITHOUT EMOTION, make your case. [Something that is VERY difficult for many Gun Hobbyists] 
When the time comes for the Return to escalate to a Case, --------the Sellers DON'T want that to happen ---NOR does eBay, they will usually concede. Sometimes it's necessary to pick up the phone and call eBay, mostly when the Chinese Sellers have a way of manipulating the system to block your ability to commo with them, when negotiating to return the item, ------because they don't want to pay the horribly high shipping from the USA. |
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Posted: 2/7/2017 5:39:30 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you filed a "CASE" with ebay, they will likely find in your favor if your case has merit. If you filed a "REQUEST" the Seller can screw around with you until such time as a Case is permitted to be filed. Be extremely polite and gracious in all commo w/ the Seller, stick to a point without going overboard, and request a "RETURN SHIPPING LABEL" that the Seller has to provide. Give the Seller a chance to resolve the issue/s, stick to your guns, and logically and WITHOUT EMOTION, make your case. [Something that is VERY difficult for many Gun Hobbyists]
When the time comes for the Return to escalate to a Case, --------the Sellers DON'T want that to happen ---NOR does eBay, they will usually concede. Sometimes it's necessary to pick up the phone and call eBay, mostly when the Chinese Sellers have a way of manipulating the system to block your ability to commo with them, when negotiating to return the item, ------because they don't want to pay the horribly high shipping from the USA. Regarding the Chinese: Their government is subsidizing their shipping costs to bolster sales to break the back of US industry. There is no way I could return ship an item for their cost unless I had a similar subsidy. Give the Seller a chance to resolve the issue/s, stick to my guns, and logically and WITHOUT EMOTION, make my case? I've been a political activist for thirty years. I'm the guy that can stand stoically watching someone scream into my face - right until the fists start swinging - that's always been my idea of fun. |
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Posted: 2/7/2017 6:15:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Regarding the Chinese: Their government is subsidizing their shipping costs to bolster sales to break the back of US industry. There is no way I could return ship an item for their cost unless I had a similar subsidy. Give the Seller a chance to resolve the issue/s, stick to my guns, and logically and WITHOUT EMOTION, make my case? I've been a political activist for thirty years. I'm the guy that can stand stoically watching someone scream into my face - right until the fists start swinging - that's always been my idea of fun. Yes, the Chinese post/mail must be extremely subsidized... To an amazing degree... Their small electronic modules and parts are fantastic buys and the shipping is rather fast. Did you have the opportunity to participate in the Nevertrump thread per chance?
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Posted: 2/16/2017 4:02:27 PM EDT
[#22]
They received my "great tube with clear image" that I returned due to noise and dim output. The results seem to be par for the course: No Problem Found.
If I were a night vision beginner they might be successful with this but this is about year 25 under NVD for me. I could not even see the reticle with this tube. Both of my other PVS-4 tubes stomp it for gain. They want to charge me a 20% fee to restock a defective item. I will become the most vindictive ex-customer they have ever had if they don't accept a legitimate return. I will make them my new favorite hobby. |
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Posted: 2/16/2017 9:39:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They received my "great tube with clear image" that I returned due to noise and dim output. The results seem to be par for the course: No Problem Found. If I were a night vision beginner they might be successful with this but this is about year 25 under NVD for me. I could not even see the reticle with this tube. Both of my other PVS-4 tubes stomp it for gain. They want to charge me a 20% fee to restock a defective item. I will become the most vindictive ex-customer they have ever had if they don't accept a legitimate return. I will make them my new favorite hobby. Was it an eBay purchase... Cause if it were, the 20% restock ain't going to fly once you open a case... |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 3:27:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was it an eBay purchase... Cause if it were, the 20% restock ain't going to fly once you open a case... It was eBay. They'll have to puke up my money. I'm at the edge, though. If they press me any further then I'll push back, regardless - only I don't stop. I'll keep the fun coming. |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 3:30:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was eBay. They'll have to puke up my money. I'm at the edge, though. If they press me any further then I'll push back, regardless - only I don't stop. I'll keep the fun coming. You're making this too complicated, and maybe too 'personalized'... It's a SIMPLE business transaction... Have you opened an eBay "RETURN" Or afterwards... Filed a "CASE"
I explained all this ~ a few weeks ago to you... If you arbitrarily just returned the item without going thru the eBay process, you made things more difficult to prevail... In this event, a phone call to eBay would be in order... |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 5:31:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're making this too complicated, and maybe too 'personalized'... It's a SIMPLE business transaction... Have you opened an eBay "RETURN" Or afterwards... Filed a "CASE"
I explained all this ~ a few weeks ago to you... If you arbitrarily just returned the item without going thru the eBay process, you made things more difficult to prevail... In this event, a phone call to eBay would be in order... When they refused the return i initiated a return through the eBay process. They are still balking. My refund is due today. If they don't tender funds or send a near perfect replacement then I will escalate. I'm on track. There was an RMA and everything, including a prepaid label. I appreciate the concern. |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 6:47:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When they refused the return i initiated a return through the eBay process. They are still balking. My refund is due today. If they don't tender funds or send a near perfect replacement then I will escalate. I'm on track. There was an RMA and everything, including a prepaid label. I appreciate the concern. Good! You're on top of things... If they don't refund, then eBay will have some sort of automated process to open a case. Be sure to make responses as eBay prompts... ETA- For other folks following this... IMO it's best to always open a return process rather than just message a Seller and return autonomously. Opening a Return doesn't hurt the Seller... It's when a CASE is opened that eBay 'reads' as the Seller is being negative ----and eBay can retaliate against the Seller in many ways... Sellers DON'T want a CASE opened... After the dust settles, then it's time to leave feedback. If a Seller has been an ass, I leave FB that is well written, logical to other less sophisticated Buyers, brief, and SCORCHING... |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 11:59:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Sure is a lot of DRAMA for this post.
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