User Panel
Posted: 8/23/2016 5:51:31 PM EDT
My basic understanding of PVS-14's is they have essentially become like AR-15's in terms of "everyone" is building them these days and you need to shop around and have some knowledge and confidence in your builder. TNVC currently king of the hill in that regard if you buy one that is third party built)
Aside from that you have the factory built mil-spec but commercially sold variety from ITT, L3, perhaps others but I'm to new at this to know. (not sure if white phosphor available this route) My only definitive decision made is a white phosphor tube in a PVS-14 format with the max performance I can obtain on all the typical night vision performance criteria So my options appear to be ITT or L3 generation 3 Filmless Or Photonis Intens (which if I am reading correctly is actually refined and advanced Generation 2 technology) but very much on par with the current Generation 3 filmless offerings. (point me in the right direction to read if I am misinformed please) Are they in fact all comparable in spec aside from their generational build differences (short version...... I want a White Phosphor PVS-14 with the best performance and quality I can buy regardless of factory or vendor built and am unsure if the latest advancements in Gen 2 can also get me to that end result or what the subjective differences between the three would be). |
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[#2]
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What kind of warranty does L3 have? View Quote We offer a 5 years on our L3 tubes either Mil Spec Omni 8 filmed or filmless WPT. OP, please feel free to call or PM me. Be happy to assist with the information overload, I understand. We have many happy customers with all our TNV-14 line and be happy to explain the differences as well. Vic |
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[#3]
Quoted: We offer a 5 years on our L3 tubes either Mil Spec Omni 8 filmed or filmless WPT. OP, please feel free to call or PM me. Be happy to assist with the information overload, I understand. We have many happy customers with all our TNV-14 line and be happy to explain the differences as well. Vic View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: What kind of warranty does L3 have? We offer a 5 years on our L3 tubes either Mil Spec Omni 8 filmed or filmless WPT. OP, please feel free to call or PM me. Be happy to assist with the information overload, I understand. We have many happy customers with all our TNV-14 line and be happy to explain the differences as well. Vic |
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[#4]
tag because I will probably drop the coin this week on a PVS-14,
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[#5]
Call Vic. I was in the same situation and he was very helpful! Can't wait for my WP goodness to get here.
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[#6]
Quoted: Call Vic. I was in the same situation and he was very helpful! Can't wait for my WP goodness to get here. View Quote Hell I'm not even sure what all my questions are yet. |
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[#7]
Not sure on the price difference between green and blue, but when pressed, I have not read or heard anyone say that WP is in any way superior. You will probably be the only kid on your block with it, if that is important to you. I'd rather spend the extra money on more or higher res green tubes. Whether you go single or multiple, GOOD Filmless, otoh as long as you know the weapon mounting limitations, will probably get you more legit "oohs and aahs" as compared to state of the art thin filmed tubes, than will similarly spec'd tubes in a different color.
I have two TNVC '14s- one I bought new, the other I bought used after calling TNVC to see if they had anything in stock to beat it (they didn't). They have been exceedingly helpful with both and if I ever bought another ,I2 device they would be my first and hopefully last stop. ETA- guys that would know are saying below that the currently available WP tubes kick the shit out of currently available green tubes- based on overall higher specs. So it seems the "best" you can get is also WP... |
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[#8]
There is still not enough users giving their perspective on Intens that they own to say as someone who have not peeked through one what you lose and what you win. The basics are they are lower in noise and scintillation, good and expensive. Also can take a 500G shock compared to under 100G for Gen3 tubes IIRC.
From Carpe Nocturnums Youtube astronomy videos you can see how it compares against a L3 Filmless and that should represent a pretty dark scenario. Keep in mind the phosphor difference in his videos, the darker edges and stark color gradients are from the camera caused by the dark green, or that's my guess. |
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[#9]
I have several L-3 WP tubes. I really prefer them to green. It's way more pleasing to my eye. My tubes happen to be pretty good spec as wel. (2400+ FOM on some)
I was using a 14 the other night and I couldn't help but notice that moonlight color and WP color seem to be pretty similar so running a single tube seems just a little more effortless for me. If I could only have one I'd buy the best I could get and that seems to be L-3s lately. |
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[#10]
If money is no object don't look at any one builder, look at the tube specs and warranty.
Any monkey can build these things in 30 minutes, its not rocket science. |
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[#11]
The L3 WP tubes we are currently getting direct from L3 are the highest spec tubes I've ever seen. Many of them are running 72 Line Pair center resolution, 2500+ Photo-cathode sensitivity and I would say 90% of them are getting 31+ SNR.
Right now the ITT WP tubes are not filmless, unless they have changed them in the last 3 or 4 weeks, they are still a thin filmed WP tube that mimics the specs of their green tubes, which are not bad tubes by any means. I can not comment on the Photonis tubes as we do not sell them, nor have i gotten a hold or looked through them. If you want the best, with one of the best all around Warranty's and NO BS customer Service on call then TNVC is here for you. Feel free to call me at 909-796-7000 ext 303 and I'll talk to you so long about WP tubes you'll get bored. I'd say the WP L3 tubes exibit specs 10-15% higher on average than the Green Phosphor tubes. The WP tubes are vastly superior in capability to green Phosphor tubes, I prefer them when I hog hunt and shoot classes, I would have loved these things in Iraq back when I was in the military |
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[#12]
Quoted:
The L3 WP tubes we are currently getting direct from L3 are the highest spec tubes I've ever seen. Many of them are running 72 Line Pair center resolution, 2500+ Photo-cathode sensitivity and I would say 90% of them are getting 31+ SNR. Right now the ITT WP tubes are not filmless, unless they have changed them in the last 3 or 4 weeks, they are still a thin filmed WP tube that mimics the specs of their green tubes, which are not bad tubes by any means. I can not comment on the Photonis tubes as we do not sell them, nor have i gotten a hold or looked through them. If you want the best, with one of the best all around Warranty's and NO BS customer Service on call then TNVC is here for you. Feel free to call me at 909-796-7000 ext 303 and I'll talk to you so long about WP tubes you'll get bored. I'd say the WP L3 tubes exibit specs 10-15% higher on average than the Green Phosphor tubes. The WP tubes are vastly superior in capability to green Phosphor tubes, I prefer them when I hog hunt and shoot classes, I would have loved these things in Iraq back when I was in the military View Quote I hate you guys. Ive been wanting a WP tube because the specs have been so high on them lately. |
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[#13]
I've been running a WP PInnacle PVS-14 the last couple of months. My take performance wise it seems similar to all the green pinnacles tubes I've owned in the same spec area. I do kind of prefer the WP myself by a narrow margin as it seems easier on my eye/eyes strain wise after extend use. I ordered a WP L3 PVS-14 from TNVC also so I will have both the Pinnacle and L3 Filmless WP tubes in PVS-14's. My TNVC L3 WP should ship next couple of weeks if my delivery estimate stays current I hope it has great specs also!.
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[#14]
Vic or Sam can the mod3 be ordered in white phosphor? I think that's the setup I'd like to purchase eventually from you guys if it's an option. I'd go with the sentinals but I like the option of passing off one of them if needed.
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[#16]
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[#17]
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I'd say the WP L3 tubes exibit specs 10-15% higher on average than the Green Phosphor tubes. View Quote L-3 can build green tubes to the same performance spec as the white ones. Certain customers really like white. Others prefer green. Given a choice, I personally would pick one of the high performance L-3 Green unfilmed units. |
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[#18]
Quoted: The L3 WP tubes we are currently getting direct from L3 are the highest spec tubes I've ever seen. View Quote |
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[#19]
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[#20]
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Now that I am looking at your offerings again, are all your White Phosphor PVS-14 your builds or do you also sell L3 or ITT built ones as well? Not a preference on my part just trying to be aware of options. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The L3 WP tubes we are currently getting direct from L3 are the highest spec tubes I've ever seen. From reading their information on their site, and here, all sales to public involving the PVS-14 are their builds, with either ITT or L3 tubes assembled in them. Only "milspec" are directly from ITT or L3 if that makes sense. Military/Leo are eligible for those units, not general public. |
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[#21]
Quoted: From reading their information on their site, and here, all sales to public involving the PVS-14 are their builds, with either ITT or L3 tubes assembled in them. Only "milspec" are directly from ITT or L3 if that makes sense. Military/Leo are eligible for those units, not general public. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The L3 WP tubes we are currently getting direct from L3 are the highest spec tubes I've ever seen. From reading their information on their site, and here, all sales to public involving the PVS-14 are their builds, with either ITT or L3 tubes assembled in them. Only "milspec" are directly from ITT or L3 if that makes sense. Military/Leo are eligible for those units, not general public. https://tnvc.com/shop/pvs-14-night-enforcer-gen3-pinnacle-night-vision-monocular/ |
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[#22]
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They sell direct from "original manufacturer units" (for lack of a better term).... here is an example though it is thin film and green phosphor. Not White filmless. https://tnvc.com/shop/pvs-14-night-enforcer-gen3-pinnacle-night-vision-monocular/ View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The L3 WP tubes we are currently getting direct from L3 are the highest spec tubes I've ever seen. From reading their information on their site, and here, all sales to public involving the PVS-14 are their builds, with either ITT or L3 tubes assembled in them. Only "milspec" are directly from ITT or L3 if that makes sense. Military/Leo are eligible for those units, not general public. https://tnvc.com/shop/pvs-14-night-enforcer-gen3-pinnacle-night-vision-monocular/ Interesting. Obviously missed that one. I stand corrected on those then. |
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[#23]
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Did this PM answer the question about WP Mod3's? If so, i'd love the same info, please. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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PM sent Did this PM answer the question about WP Mod3's? If so, i'd love the same info, please. This was the response: Normally no, but if you contact us and speak with us directly at tnvc, we can probably custom build you some WP Mod'3. Be advised the wait times kinda suck as these things are popular and we can only get a certain number of tubes per month from L3. |
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[#24]
So you all know, we are working on getting MOD 3's filmless WPT's for an option as a standard build choice. We've just been waiting for tube allotments from L3. The availabity is tough at times becuase of demand.
Sam said to PM him because we don't know exact dates etc. and nowadays we refrain from publicy guessing. Once these go on our web site with pricing, I will personally announce it here and elsewhere. Thank you. Vic |
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[#25]
Does the white tube stop you from seeing purple, brown, and orange tinted colors after removing the NOD for extended periods?
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[#26]
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From reading their information on their site, and here, all sales to public involving the PVS-14 are their builds, with either ITT or L3 tubes assembled in them. Only "milspec" are directly from ITT or L3 if that makes sense. Military/Leo are eligible for those units, not general public. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The L3 WP tubes we are currently getting direct from L3 are the highest spec tubes I've ever seen. From reading their information on their site, and here, all sales to public involving the PVS-14 are their builds, with either ITT or L3 tubes assembled in them. Only "milspec" are directly from ITT or L3 if that makes sense. Military/Leo are eligible for those units, not general public. We sell one "factory" unit and that is the Night Enforcer that was formally ITT, then Excelis, and now Harris who acquired them. We also manufacturer three PVS-14's under our roof and that is the TNV-14 in 3 flavors of tubes. ITT (Omni 7), L3 Omni 8 in green filmed and White Phosphor Filmless. We also have NO restrictions on selling these units to every US citizen. These units are not restricted to LEO. A looong time ago when the Pinnacle Autogated units were first going out in the wild, ITT did have an early restriction these could only be sold to LEO's. They also said at that time, even though EACH of the units came with data sheets, we could not send them with the units. We had a few drawers worth after a few years. Hope this helps a bit. Vic |
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[#27]
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Does the white tube stop you from seeing purple, brown, and orange tinted colors after removing the NOD for extended periods? View Quote Hmmm, interesting (I have not experienced that) but I know I've read and heard from others who have reported this. I am no eye doctor but I know Skypup here in his past life was a genetic scientist with eyeball stuff. Maybe he can shed more light on this phenomena. |
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[#28]
Depending on your age, with older being progressively worse, the rhodopsins in your cone photoreceptors will take longer to regenerate after looking at white light. Your inherent night vision will also take longer to readjust as your rods get bleached out.
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[#29]
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Depending on your age, with older being progressively worse, the rhodopsins in your cone photoreceptors will take longer to regenerate after looking at white light. Your inherent night vision will also take longer to readjust as your rods get bleached out. View Quote I also find it easier when wearing a single monocular over duals when my other eye is already dark adapted, it takes a lot less time for the other eye to adjust for darkness vs. wearing a pair of duals. I think there was an Army study on this awhile back as well. I think CJ7Hawk posted something on this topic. |
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[#31]
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I've been running a WP PInnacle PVS-14 the last couple of months. My take performance wise it seems similar to all the green pinnacles tubes I've owned in the same spec area. I do kind of prefer the WP myself by a narrow margin as it seems easier on my eye/eyes strain wise after extend use. I ordered a WP L3 PVS-14 from TNVC also so I will have both the Pinnacle and L3 Filmless WP tubes in PVS-14's. My TNVC L3 WP should ship next couple of weeks if my delivery estimate stays current I hope it has great specs also!. View Quote Thank you. Many of our Mil counterparts also say the same thing about the WPT's. For me I'm old fashioned and still like green.... The specs will be damn good! |
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[#32]
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Now that I am looking at your offerings again, are all your White Phosphor PVS-14 your builds or do you also sell L3 or ITT built ones as well? Not a preference on my part just trying to be aware of options. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The L3 WP tubes we are currently getting direct from L3 are the highest spec tubes I've ever seen. Yes, see my above post. |
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[#33]
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We sell one "factory" unit and that is the Night Enforcer that was formally ITT, then Excelis, and now Harris who acquired them. We also manufacturer three PVS-14's under our roof and that is the TNV-14 in 3 flavors of tubes. ITT (Omni 7), L3 Omni 8 in green filmed and White Phosphor Filmless. We also have NO restrictions on selling these units to every US citizen. These units are not restricted to LEO. A looong time ago when the Pinnacle Autogated units were first going out in the wild, ITT did have an early restriction these could only be sold to LEO's. They also said at that time, even though EACH of the units came with data sheets, we could not send them with the units. We had a few drawers worth after a few years. Hope this helps a bit. Vic View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The L3 WP tubes we are currently getting direct from L3 are the highest spec tubes I've ever seen. From reading their information on their site, and here, all sales to public involving the PVS-14 are their builds, with either ITT or L3 tubes assembled in them. Only "milspec" are directly from ITT or L3 if that makes sense. Military/Leo are eligible for those units, not general public. We sell one "factory" unit and that is the Night Enforcer that was formally ITT, then Excelis, and now Harris who acquired them. We also manufacturer three PVS-14's under our roof and that is the TNV-14 in 3 flavors of tubes. ITT (Omni 7), L3 Omni 8 in green filmed and White Phosphor Filmless. We also have NO restrictions on selling these units to every US citizen. These units are not restricted to LEO. A looong time ago when the Pinnacle Autogated units were first going out in the wild, ITT did have an early restriction these could only be sold to LEO's. They also said at that time, even though EACH of the units came with data sheets, we could not send them with the units. We had a few drawers worth after a few years. Hope this helps a bit. Vic It does for me at least. I thought you didn't sell any direct production PVS-14s from the manufacturer. Corrected there. Kinda like certain laser devices when ordered are sent from the factory, and you guys don't even touch the product. Now I also need to make the decision on green or WP.... |
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[#34]
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It does for me at least. I thought you didn't sell any direct production PVS-14s from the manufacturer. Corrected there. Kinda like certain laser devices when ordered are sent from the factory, and you guys don't even touch the product. Now I also need to make the decision on green or WP.... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted:
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The L3 WP tubes we are currently getting direct from L3 are the highest spec tubes I've ever seen. From reading their information on their site, and here, all sales to public involving the PVS-14 are their builds, with either ITT or L3 tubes assembled in them. Only "milspec" are directly from ITT or L3 if that makes sense. Military/Leo are eligible for those units, not general public. We sell one "factory" unit and that is the Night Enforcer that was formally ITT, then Excelis, and now Harris who acquired them. We also manufacturer three PVS-14's under our roof and that is the TNV-14 in 3 flavors of tubes. ITT (Omni 7), L3 Omni 8 in green filmed and White Phosphor Filmless. We also have NO restrictions on selling these units to every US citizen. These units are not restricted to LEO. A looong time ago when the Pinnacle Autogated units were first going out in the wild, ITT did have an early restriction these could only be sold to LEO's. They also said at that time, even though EACH of the units came with data sheets, we could not send them with the units. We had a few drawers worth after a few years. Hope this helps a bit. Vic It does for me at least. I thought you didn't sell any direct production PVS-14s from the manufacturer. Corrected there. Kinda like certain laser devices when ordered are sent from the factory, and you guys don't even touch the product. Now I also need to make the decision on green or WP.... Actually while they are "factory" units, everything (including all lasers) come to us first. We open each and every piece to insure everything is working and more importantly power on the factory 14's to insure tube is up to our standards. Yes we have rejected plenty over the years. Thank you. |
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[#35]
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So you all know, we are working on getting MOD 3's filmless WPT's for an option as a standard build choice. We've just been waiting for tube allotments from L3. The availabity is tough at times becuase of demand. Sam said to PM him because we don't know exact dates etc. and nowadays we refrain from publicy guessing. Once these go on our web site with pricing, I will personally announce it here and elsewhere. Thank you. Vic View Quote Alrighty, Clasky got the new L3 Omi 8 WPT Filmess option for the MOD-3's up on the web site! These are now a standard build option with this unit. Just type in AB NightVision in our search bar on our web site. |
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[#36]
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Not sure on the price difference between green and blue, but when pressed, I have not read or heard anyone say that WP is in any way superior. You will probably be the only kid on your block with it, if that is important to you. View Quote I think it boils down to personal preference given the examples I've used, and whether you like the WP tubes enough over green to spring for them. If you actually end up using them a lot, the cost difference isn't really that big of a deal. I can't imagine anyone getting the WP and regretting it, especially if TNVC says their specs are outstanding. |
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[#37]
Quoted:
Hmmm, interesting (I have not experienced that) but I know I've read and heard from others who have reported this. I am no eye doctor but I know Skypup here in his past life was a genetic scientist with eyeball stuff. Maybe he can shed more light on this phenomena. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Does the white tube stop you from seeing purple, brown, and orange tinted colors after removing the NOD for extended periods? Hmmm, interesting (I have not experienced that) but I know I've read and heard from others who have reported this. I am no eye doctor but I know Skypup here in his past life was a genetic scientist with eyeball stuff. Maybe he can shed more light on this phenomena. Everyone that I have seen with this issue generally ran their gain very high/bright. I prefer my unit just bright enough to see and not any more much easier on the eyes. |
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[#38]
With (at least ITT made) MX10160 tubes this is a problem and I am susceptible to it - I see purple every time I've been under these tubes for an hour or more, unless the environment is really dark and max gain limits the brightness noticeably.
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[#39]
I often wear my PVS-14 or dual goggle's for several hours straight hiking/driving around. I have also found a super bright tube gain setting adds to more eye strain in the long run.
I've had 20 + years of experience running "green" tubes and only recently started running WP. For me personally, I believe the WP is easier on my eyes and the more I use WP the more I realize the difference. Performance wise such as contrast and tube sharpness, I think overall tube specs matter more than green or white. |
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