I posted this on another thread, but I figured this might be better on its own thread.

So here are the components you'll need.

red dot laser sight
laser modules 780 nm

NOTES:
1)You can remove the battery if you want, I didn't it really doesn't matter much b/c once you pop the PCB board out the battery just comes off...
2) As suggested by murderman, I didn't go with a higher IR wavelength mainly due to cost, availability and power; the 900 nm stuff is very low power and much more expensive. But if you find a small IR diode in higher wavelength that matches the size, the by all means use it. Also be aware that 900nm stuff won't be visible in Gen1 and lots of older Gen2 units.
3) This mod requires cutting and soldering cables. It will void the 10 dollar laser warranty.

STEPS:
1) First you need to take the picatinny screw that holds the rail clamp..


2)Slide the bottom plate, it should be tight and BEWARE of letting the spring plate from jumping off...

Spring detent... make sure doesn't fly off.


3)This is how the laser looks as it comes.


4)You will need to extract the main laser PCB and the laser rubber block and  detach the red laser diode from the rubber block. It is held by a dab of CA. so it should be too hard. None of the three ones I've done so far had much holding it together.
screw

rubber block


5)Once you have the main PCB out you have to cut it so only the contacts for + and - are left; reason behind this is b/c the driver on the PCB won't drive the IR diode, it will basically fry it... I tried on my first attempt and I killed my first IR diode, so don't do it.
This is how it has to be cut.


6)Once you have the PCB cut, you need to remove the IR laser diode shrink wrap over the laser driver.


7)With the laser diode ready to go, unsolder the big thick cables on the IR diode and use thinner gauge, I used AWG28 IIRC... much thinner than the one that came with it.  Then with the PCB out, scrape the green varnish covering the negative trace and dab some flux solution and tin it. After that, dab some flux in the positive trace and tin it as well. Solder the two laser diode cables (matching polarity) to the PCB places you've just tinned and you're good to go. Insert the diode into the rubber block and add a dab of CA to hold it in place, slide the rubber block back into the laser housing ensuring you don't break the cables off. Once the laser diode is in place, slide the PCB back and screw it back in place. Make sure the switch works with the external lever switch, don't force it b/c the switch will break.. I almost ruined the first one. Taking the switch apart is an option, but it is not required if you do this right.

This is how the laser IR converted should look once you have done everything.


8)Before reassembling you need to cut a 45 degree chunk on the spring plate b/c the  new diode is circular and doesn't have the flat spot that the red one had for the spring.


9)Put spring plate back in there and while holding it slide the bottom plate back in the grove, this is tricky and don't force it, if you put too much pressure you'll ruin the backplate and won't be possible to close the laser.


10) Finished laser with 780 nm laser. Visible for miles.



Hope this helps.

G.

Cool stuff OP. Will it take recoil from an 556 or an 6.8? I ask because I have these 2 cals

I don't own firearms so I can't confirm how well they will hold zero but here are my observations:

1) the ones I got were 100% metal, no plastic anywhere. (not even the switch)
2) the screws that adjust windage-elevation required a dab of loctite, now they don't move at all under vibrations.
3) the laser unit seems to be very well built, and the three units I've performed this mod were basically identical inside (I've seen some cheap china stuff that looked the same outside but was not the same inside... even same brand)
4) laser diode seems to be held very well with the dab of CA so it is unlikely it will move even with insane recoil.
5) One of those has hold the recoil of my 1300 FPS nitro piston air rifle just fine, its not the same as an AR, but the one I got has had very good reviews in Amazon.
6) Its dirt cheap to try, even if it doesn't work, you'll be out only 20 bucks.
7) the IR laser that looks exactly like the one I modded is ~140 dollars...

G.

good explaination of your mod and what you did.





in one of your other post, you had mentioned that you did a conversion in one of these with a 808nm 10mw laser module.





latter, you mentioned an 850nm laser module that you used also.





the ones of these wavelengths that I have seen have been 12mm diameter for 808nm, and 10mm diameter for 850nm modules.





what were the diameters of the 808nm 10mw and the 850nm that you used? do you have a url on what you used for these?





I'd be interested if these were available in smaller diameter modules.
 

Yeah, I bought a 12 dollar Walmart airsoft laser sight and retrofitted a 30mw 808 nm laser on it as well, but not on this guy. Perhaps I didn't convey that the right way? I can take pictures of my other cheap airsoft laser tonight. The diode on that one is not 6mm, its more like 10mm or something like that. I also retrofitted an 850nm (I think, I am pretty sure it is 850) IR laser on some contraption that I built home made a long time ago, ar15 archive thread ... the laser is running ~10mw but the diode was capable of pumping 450 or 500mw, but since I didn't need 500 mw of IR light to blind myself with I simply stuck a pot so the driver was run @ ~10mW, which was already bright enough for my stargazing application (see the beam pointing in the sky)

I think the ebay seller was Aixiz? or something like that? The other wavelength lasers due to the casing being so much bigger won't fit on the little laser sight housing...

When I got the cheap amazon red laser sight I decided that this was going to be cheap, so there was no need to spend much on the laser conversion, and there was limited offering on the laser options so I stuck with the cheapest price per unit IR laser I could find. The procedure to retrofit the 905nm laser that was provided would be basically the same.. but I wonder how bright it would be... remember that in order to be usable you need to be able to see it even in fairly bright conditions; such as moonlight and what not.

EDIT: the differences between 808 and 780 are indiscernible, 850 the dot is almost invisible. I would assume that 905 nm would be completely invisible and not advisable to look for it unless you want to blind yourself... remember that radiation still coming from the reflection even your eyes can't see it... and you're still punching a hole in your eyes...

G.

Here is another IR mod I did a while ago, this one has an 808 nm 30mw laser. This one started as a cheap 15 dollar Walmart airsoft laser... it is mostly useless for anything but astronomy because the housing it lacks any windage-elevation adjustments (even when new), but it provided a big enough housing to stick the much larger 808 nm IR laser I had floating around.

your post in the other thread was a source of confusion






it reads as if you had used a 808nm laser module in that laser sight, so it sounded like you has a source of 808nm laser modules in the smaller 6mm form factor, which was what I was interesed in.



what you meant was that you had used 780nm laser modules in those, and used a 808nm module in a different housing.



I was just hoping that you might have found a source of cheap 808nm small laser modules.



these small 6mm laser modules in  the red 650nm wavelengths are what most of the cheap laser sights are using, btw

Yes I know, I am sorry... I did look for 808, but after testing I realized there wasn't much of a difference between 808 and 780 so I stuck with 780. You could try the 905 nm laser that murderman showed...

G.

Great post.

Considered doing this awhile back.

Was also on the lookout for a filter that could turn most any laser into IR since IR light is produced by lasers as a bi-product anyways.

Filter won't work very well for lasers. I've tried this and while you see a little bit, you lose a lot of the laser energy to the filter.

G.

Only the green ones.

Can anyone that has mounted this on a weapon talk about how well the windage and elevation adjustments work?

True, but only the ones that don't have a IR cutout built-in. The ones without it will work, but there is been some cracking down on these dangerous GLPs...

G.

I've used a cheap green laser from Amazon with a Butler Creek flip cap. The cap had a hole drilled in it with some Soviet IR filter lens. Worked okay, but the adjustments are pointless for a real rifle. Couldn't get it to zero at all. Dumped it for rifle use after I purchased a Crimson Trace CMR IR laser.

My suggestion is to use a legit civilian rifle IR laser, ie Crimson Trace, Lasermax, or go for some higher end stuff. The main benefit I've found for the green/IR laser setup I have is for use as a pointer for others in my team wearing NVGs. I plan on mounting it to my Cyclop-1 night vision monocular so the user of that device can point out what they're seeing. Basically a fancy laser pointer.

Here is the cheap green laser with the flip cap and IR filter.



This setup ran about $40 to build. Useless on a rifle, but great as a generic laser pointer for use in both daylight and night.

Well I went ahead and bought two of the housings and a pack of lasers. We'll see if it works.

I'll be happy if they just work well and hold zero on my .22s.

How long did it take for your stuff to come in from China?

my laser housings should be here Saturday, about a week and a half since i ordered.
the laser modules i ordered from amazon too. they havent left china yet.

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The 780nm lasers are using the same housing as the 650nm red ones.



They are pretty simple, and you should be able to focus them to a 1-2 mm pinpoint dot at 30' if you adjust the beam.



when the beam is focus to such a small point, though, it is visible, at least to me, so if you are mostly thinking of doing close up shots, and want it mostly invisible, you would want to get it to be a defused dot at what ever distance you may want to use it at.



I got some several years ago that you had to fiddle with the placement of the diode, due to them using an improper focal length lens and not enought length to focus the beam. In a more recent batch I got ~2 years ago, they had changed the focal length, so you could focus the beam just by turning the housing.



If you want to focus the beam better, wire the laser to 3v, place the dot on a wall about 30' away, and begin turning the outer barrel until you get a sharp dot. After you get it focused, apply some NON super glue cyanno acrylic glue to hold the focus. Super glues will fume, and might get the lens a little cloudy if the fumes get inside the housing.



in  the following is a breakdown of the laser, the parts, and an example of how sharp you can get the beam and what it looks like at night.



not that you probably don't need to take the module apart, but if you have trouble focusing the beam, sometimes the lense, which has a flat, and a concave side, might be put in the wrong way, and you can try turning it around to see if it focuses better.

cm, what's the distance in the NV pic?

I'm not sure - this is part of a golf course near where I live - it's the only place with few lights and open enough near where I live to be able to demonstrate the beam.



I would estimate that the distance is about 150-200 yds to the trees. the pines around the area average 12 - 16" in diameter.



the beam off these 780nm modules is pretty bright on a gen3 scope, and you do get a bit of an image burn trail that will fade away if you have in on close up stuff (kind of like the traces you get when your scope goes over a distant street or house light).



I'd probably use some neutral density filter material or something like that to decrease the beam a bit if you intend to use it mostly around 20-50' or so.



---



I actually have done the mod on an older version of the laser, that didn't have the pressure switch.



things to watch out for - they tend to use the same design, and claim it works with several different sets of battery types -  the problem with that is the battery compartment consist of a compartment with a spring on the bottom (one of the contacts) and a plastic and metal ring tube for the container and other contact. the models use a 1/3n (expensive) or they use something like 3 389a batteries.



the problem with using 3 batteries is that the 3rd battery sometimes shorts out on the metal ring. you can run the laser with just 2 389a batteries just fine, though under load, the laser is getting less than 3 volts.



the other thing is that the slide switch on the back is just an aluminum bar that moves a ball bearing back and forth on a pc board trace, so after a while the connection gets flake as the ball bearing scores the copper contact. I was going to try to get a slide switch and replace the back switch to get it to work properly.



the laser works okay with air soft type pistols, I have not tried it on a regular hand gun yet (don't think the local indoor range would turn off the lights for me), but some reviews on amazon say they work okay, you need to use some locktite on the aiming screws though.
 

got the aimers and the laser modules. i havent reassembled them yet, but i have a few observations.

The aimer housing should be sufficient, with a little tweaking, threadlock, glue, and rtv sealant. but it isnt water tight. the switch only has two positions (on - off), not (on - off - on) like im used to. finally the battery compartment is not labeled for polarity. i dont know if accidentally reversing the polarity will fry the diodes or not.

the laser modules are tiny. much smaller than i expected. i notice no difference to the naked eye between the 780nm and 808nm lasers i've used in the past. in a dim room the beam dissappeared within a foot or two.

i dont know why the op replaced the wires. im going to attempt this with the oem wires still attached.
i purchased these modules on amazon:
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015W04GY8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00
only to prevent me from having to place two seperate orders. i have no idea if they come with a good focus or not yet, and if they will hold up.


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the negative goes down onto the spring in the compartment, the positive up to the cap.



i've connected the leads to a laser to reverse polarity and it didn't seem to harm it, but it was with the button cells, not something with a lot of amperage.



I didn't see any need to replace the wires either.





I think I'm going to try to find some cheap low mw 850nm laser diodes and try to use them in these housings and see if I can get it to work, but the ones I have seen are more expensive than I want to spend for experimenting on (I probably will blow 1-2 experimenting with them).





 

i think polarity frying depends on the driver board, some can handle reverse polarity, because i've certainly fried them in the past.

6mm 850nm? where?

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Hmm...
last time I checked (about 8? months ago) on ebay, they had 850nm to-18 20mw diodes for about $16-$20.
now there are several other wattages -
5mw 850nm $12



http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Power-Lab-850nm-5mW-Laser-Diode-TO-18-Package-/181143764490?hash=item2a2d027e0a:g:N0MAAOSwEeFU3W-2
laserland 10mw 850nm $9.39



http://www.ebay.com/itm/TO18-5-6mm-10mW-850nm-Infrared-IR-Laser-Diode-PD-M-Pin-HLD850010M5T-/191114935710?hash=item2c7f567d9e:g:csQAAMXQinlRjbeT
I need to find some datasheets on some of these.
what I was thinking of doing was buy a bunch of 650nm laser modules, desolder the driver board, pop the old diode out and put a 850nm in it's place, solder it up and see what happens (i think the only difference is probably the wavelength of the diode).
as far as the current draw on these 780nm modules, a batch I have draws 18ma, while another batch is 25ma. I'm not sure why, i haven't taken the insulation off, but it could be they were using a different board or possibly the output is different.
edit - had this one up there also





laserland has a 1mw 850nm for $4



http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-new-RLD8501-850nm-1mw-VCSEL-Laser-Communication-Diode-LD-/131464648531?hash=item1e9be75753:g:E5wAAOSwGvhUK7xG



but I can't find a datasheet on it and it isn't a to-18 housing.
 

I've found a 905nm 1mw Laser Module that is 6x10mm in size and is rated at 3.2vdc on eBay.  Unfortunately they are $30/ea shipped from China.

ouch. that's kind of expensive for something so simple.



do you have one? how well does it work under gen3 if you have one? - out of curiosity, as the 905 is starting to get to the edge of the sensitivity of gen3 tubes.





 

I don't have one yet but I'm itching to try and fab one up with one and see how my MOD3 with the Photonis XX1940 tubes in them will do.  I do like the fact that at 905nm you shouldn't see a red glow from it but am worried that the visibility with the Photonis tubes won't be good.  I'm sure that it will do fine with my OMNI VII PVS-14

I was hoping you had a source for complete modules.
at pressing an unknown diode into a can and having to assemble a lens and focus it (its not visible) and solve the driver riddle, i wont be messing with it. thats was outside my skill set, especially when it comes to soldering the diode legs to a board.

at that point it would be easier for me to email the seller in China or someone on alibaba and have them made in a better wavelength oem. i know they exist already, i've handled a few, but i wasnt going to pay the domestic seller's asking price.

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when gman first mentioned he had gotten 808nm lasers and was putting them into that laser, I was hopeful that someone was already making small form factor laser modules too, but no luck, it looks like one needs to put them together yourself.



as far as playing around with these, if you can put together an ar from parts, you can press out, and change one of the diodes yourself. And, if you are doing reflow soldering, that is a more advance technique than soldering and desoldering a laser diode off the driver boards.



I'm busy right now, so won't be able to order any diodes and play with them for a month or 2.
 

im using one of the pcb screws as +
and the trace at the rear of the pcb (behind the pmug socket) as -

I'm in the process of making a cast for a new rubber block, the original is cruddy and the new module is loose and off center in it.

i succeeded in adjusting the laser lens to a decent focus at about 8' in a dark room yesterday. it was set to about a foot originally. a quick outdoor test under gen 3 reveals a decent dot, it might need a little more fine tuning of focus.

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Let us know how this turns out, details about how you create the mold we be some good info if you are willing to share.

im back to the drawing board actually. my new block didnt allow enough adjustment to zero. thats always the problem with these lasers, the block must allow the module to pivot, without it squishing.

i used "easy mold silicone putty", i got it at the local craft store. its a 2 part putty for casting epoxy crafts. mix the 2 parts, and mold it to your item. 20 minutes later its a flexible rubber mold. its too rubbery to be replacement block itself, it squished too much, and filling the mold with black rtv didnt work on my first try.

the origial block plus black rtv silicone was working but i had to redissassemble it because i knocked the focus out. then while trying to refocus i pulled the laser diode out of the can.

did i mention my thumb was severely lacerated 2 weeks ago and im trying to do this with only 9 fingers and a big bandage? yeah, its not going so well.

the amazon modules i ordered might be bunk. its tough to get a real good focus, and they are considerably smaller than the original. i may order the ebay modules if the op says they are better.

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any updates from anyone playing with these laser modules?



btw, what are the dimensions of the laser module you got from amazon, xjronx?

I've been messing around with mine some. I bought two housings and 5 of the IR lasers.

Here is how I ended up getting my leads soldered. First try basically just wired it hot and it was on all the time. I did a little poking around with the multimeter and got the switch brought back into the circuit.

I also stuck with the factory wires.

However, I'm having trouble getting it to where it will hold a solid zero without running out of adjustment. It seems pretty stable where I have it now, but I've run out of elevation adjustment. I wish the rubber front piece were a little tougher.

what is the diameter of the original laser module in these laser sights? is it much bigger than the 780nm modules?





I don't have the new sight with the flat sided laser module, so I don't know if they are different.





mustangduckk - you might try going to home depot or lowes and look for a longer screw (you might have to look in the specialty screw section). you can always get it a bit longer, then file down and round the end down to make it adjust against the module better.





as far as the front rubber piece, perhaps someone can make one out of regular silicone rubber like for caulking/weather proofing?





squeeze some into the end of a plastic bag and stuff it (the end of the bag with the silicone rubber) into the front of the laser sight, and use a dowel in place of the laser module to shape a tube, then, when it is hardened, use a box cutter and carefully trim it to shape?



edit - the dowel should be a slightly smaller diameter than the laser module so when it is hardened there is a snug fit. a small diameter rod could be used and tape wrapped on it to get it to the size you want



 

I've got the conversion working, but haven't figured out how to get it to hold zero. If someone wants to take over, I've got one housing with the IR laser functioning and three spare IR lasers I'll let go for what I have in them. It will save you about a month of waiting on shipping from China, plus you'll have an example of how to make the circuitry work.

Hit me up with a PM if anyone is interested. I'm just not going to have time to mess with these anymore for a few months. I'd rather see someone get these running than have a bunch of scrap parts in a drawer.



ETA: not trying to turn this into a WTS ad, just trying to pass parts onto others interested in the project.

where im at now.

the oem module is about 1.5-2mm wider than the Amazon replacement module.

the rubber block has a hole for the laser to be projected through. the hole is slightly off center. the rubber block needs to be installed with its hole closest to the adjustment set screws. the new laser module needs to be glued into the block where it will be closest to the adjustment screws. black rtv silicone seems to do the trick and is the right stiffness to pivot the laser in the rubber block. i used a glob on either side of the module in the recess on the back of the block. after dried i trimmed the excess.

the adjustment set screws are M3. they are still too short for me to zero. my local salvaged hardware store has every bolt and screw known to man. they didnt have m3 set screws. the head on the slotted m3 screw i picked up doesnt fit into the recess on the outside of the body. i either need to cut it down, or purchase m3 set screws online.

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thanks for the info, xjronx. I didn't know that diameter of the modules were that much bigger.



as to the set screws, another source might be local hobby shops that sell rc model airplane parts and kits.



other places might be online, like hobbyking or similar places, but the shipping from online places might be pricey.





please post results and updates when you have some.

Please, lots of detail photos.



 

Will do, once i get this worked out.

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Thanks for all the great info guys... I Just finished mine. I was able to get mine zeroed by trimming the spring and stretching it to the appropriate length. I tried using the spring in the standard configuration it is too much pressure. I found a divot in the diode from one of the adjustment screws, after the laser completely went out.

Im about ready to fill this thing with silicone II, set the zero with loctite and see how it holds up in all this Arkansas rain.

with locktite mine held up to 3 mags in my lightweight 1911. the cover plate shifted a couple mm though. i think it may need a dab of silicone, after removing and reinstalling it a few dozen times.

my biggest mistake, was not making sure the wires coming out of the back of the laser module were clear of obstructions. and rubbing and the impede adjustment of the laser. trimming a little shrink wrap allowed me to bend them up at 90 degree from the board, and bend them again to their new attachment points.

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