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Posted: 9/4/2010 7:20:18 AM EDT
Well, after seeing so many faked pictures claiming to be night vision, I think it's time I finally started a thread to set the truth. It's not difficult to take real Night Vision Photographs - Most people succeed on their first attempt. Yukon even make an adapter so you can do it easily...
But why are obviously fake photo's still used? These photo's are now being so blatantly created that I don't think the people who make them even realise how obvious it is that their photo's aren't real... So it's time to start a Hall Of Shame... Time to name names and show picture and let their own work do them in... And someone pointed out a cracker of a fake to me just this week.. Yeah, we've been suspicious for a while, but a little detective work found the truth... So, I figure the inaugural award for faking photos goes to ATN... After all, you want to know how good White Phosphor Technology is right? So check out this great ad... There's some nice pictures show how much better WPT is at turning night into day... or is it? Have a close look at three of the images from the slides on that page...    Did I just see someone running around with an AR and Sunglasses? At Night? Hang on, and there's someone else getting ready to snipe at night... What's he wearing? He has sunglasses too! No way... This is just too much... But wait, there's more. Look at that shot with the vehicles... Notice they all have their headlights on, yet there's NO halo! Wow! ATN must be using inverter technology. Hang on a moment - that's magic light, because it doesn't light up the vehicle in front. And wait, what's that shape in the sky... Well, I do beleive it's the MOON !!! Hang on, the moon even blooms out Gen1 technology, yet it's barely visible with White Phosphor Technology - Or Gen3 it seems. OK, so maybe I could be wrong right? I mean, maybe they're using polarising filters on those trucks and a really big polarising filter in space over the moon and those guys are wearing sunglasses because their tubes, being so great, have too much gain and they don't want to destroy their night vision right? Besides, everyone knows it's cool to wear sunglasses at night since Cory Hart sang about it. Yet my faith in all thing being possible, including giant orbital polarising lenses, was to be shattered when someone sent me some photo's...   What the???? That second picture too, taken from the same book as the picture above it, is the one ATN use at the top of their webpage... That's not dark either. Well, it looks like both ATN Gen3 technology and ATN White phosphor BOTH don't work all that well, because about the best likelyhood for those photo's being taken through a night vision scope would be that someone was looking at THOSE BOOKS through them. Now humour over, this is sad, because anyone wearing sunglasses at night looks like a bit of an idiot and I really think these guys in uniform deserve better than to become the subject in some faked Night Vision advert. After all, how would you feel if you were doing something heroic and someone doctored up a photo of it to make you look bad? So to quote a once-great Australian, Derrin Hinch, SHAME ATN SHAME... Well, I know this isn't the only case, but it's the saddest case to date.... So please, bring your photo's, your video clips and your adverts and let's judge them fake or not... David.... Note: This thread is about doctored NV photo's... Please don't hijack it with other issues - it's not a whipping post to tie manufacturers to... It's just to point out how wrong faked photo's are of NV... And yes, I have more... One at a time OK? |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 1:16:48 PM EDT
[#1]
Will be adding some of my own when I get back home Monday. Great job David for pointing out these obvious fakes. Not the tactics one should use to sell night vision.
 Wall of shame is the perfect thread title !! 
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Posted: 9/4/2010 4:13:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks Dino. At some point I'm going to get around to the REALLY big names in night vision... People you think wouldn't have any reason to fake their marketting - And I really hope that at some point the companies who do this will show some honor and use real pictures... In the mean time, I'll track their images down and shame them. Unfortunately, the ATN website is a treasure trove of fakes. Take the Gen1 ATN Cougar for example... From this webpage... http://www.atncorp.com/atn-nightcougar-night-vision-goggles  Wow! That's amazing for Gen1 quality. Not only is there no distortion, but it's clearly superior to Gen3 technology. And even more impressive is that they got a picture of a cougar with a cougar! Get it? It's punny. But wait - this cat has a brother. An identical twin.  Wow! The West Orlando News found this Cougar's doppelganger... What are the odd of that? A lot less likely than the odd of it being a fake! Shame, ATN, Shame... David |
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Posted: 9/4/2010 6:41:37 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 9/4/2010 8:11:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Bumpity.
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Posted: 9/4/2010 11:25:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Looking at the ATN Website isn't good. Maybe they only fake Gen1? I mean, maybe the idea is just to make it look less sucky than it does? Ahh, the Pinnacle. It doesn't get much better than that and, let face it, the Pinnacle is an ITT tube. ATN doesn't make them. Let look at the top of the goggles line. There I found this picture.  Very nice... OK, could be a lot of light there, now we're at the top of Gen3, it's pretty sharp. Then I looked at the image again because something wasn't right... In fact, it looked like Thermal on black hot. Huh? Are those thermal goggles? Nope. So why does it look wrong? In truth, the world looks different in infrared but why do those cables reflect so much more than the sky? And where's the glow in the sky? There's no lighting blooms or haloes about... So why is the sky so dark? In night vision, the sky is NEVER dark. OK, this is going to take some figuring out... I start looking for original images and then it strikes me. Thermal... Black hot... Inverted. No, it couldn't be that simple could it? A quick photo-demanipulation later and what do I see?  Hmmm. OK, no escaping this one. Even with the best of the best tubes, ATN feels the need to take an old, Black and White image ( looks like an old ship - that one ) and INVERTS IT to create a negative and then what? They color it GREEN and make it look like it's a Pinnacle shot! :( So this is what the image SHOULD look like, in non-negative format. When you see it like this, it's really obvious that the image is daylight... FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE. Not only have ATN made this picture into a FAKE NIGHT VISION IMAGE, they tried to cover it up by using inversion to hide the fact. Caught out again ! Three strikes in 24 hours... Shame ATN Shame. And why? This was supposed to be a Pinnacle image. :( The best of the best... Shame shame shame. David. Note: for my next post, I'm going to look for a challenge. Time to find some non-ATN doctored images... I'll get back to their others later, but seriously - it's like they are not even trying to put up real images... At this point I'm seriously starting to wonder if ANY of the images used in their marketing are real. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 3:09:40 AM EDT
[#6]
Ah yes, the world of marketing and advertising. How I love it so.
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Posted: 9/5/2010 3:26:45 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Looking at the ATN Website isn't good. Maybe they only fake Gen1? I mean, maybe the idea is just to make it look less sucky than it does? Ahh, the Pinnacle. It doesn't get much better than that and, let face it, the Pinnacle is an ITT tube. ATN doesn't make them. Let look at the top of the goggles line. There I found this picture. Very nice... OK, could be a lot of light there, now we're at the top of Gen3, it's pretty sharp. Then I looked at the image again because something wasn't right... In fact, it looked like Thermal on black hot. Huh? Are those thermal goggles? Nope. So why does it look wrong? In truth, the world looks different in infrared but why do those cables reflect so much more than the sky? And where's the glow in the sky? There's no lighting blooms or haloes about... So why is the sky so dark? In night vision, the sky is NEVER dark. OK, this is going to take some figuring out... I start looking for original images and then it strikes me. Thermal... Black hot... Inverted. No, it couldn't be that simple could it? A quick photo-demanipulation later and what do I see? Hmmm. OK, no escaping this one. Even with the best of the best tubes, ATN feels the need to take an old, Black and White image ( looks like an old ship - that one ) and INVERTS IT to create a negative and then what? They color it GREEN and make it look like it's a Pinnacle shot! :( So this is what the image SHOULD look like, in non-negative format. When you see it like this, it's really obvious that the image is daylight... FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE. Not only have ATN made this picture into a FAKE NIGHT VISION IMAGE, they tried to cover it up by using inversion to hide the fact. Caught out again ! Three strikes in 24 hours... Shame ATN Shame. And why? This was supposed to be a Pinnacle image. :( The best of the best... Shame shame shame. David. Note: for my next post, I'm going to look for a challenge. Time to find some non-ATN doctored images... I'll get back to their others later, but seriously - it's like they are not even trying to put up real images... At this point I'm seriously starting to wonder if ANY of the images used in their marketing are real. Problem is, they've painted themselves into a corner. By making fake Gen1 pictures look so good, they can't show real Gen3 pictures (if they even wanted to) because there's no way they can make them look "better". At this point, they have no choice but to make them all the same or admit they're fake. In their excitement to unload Gen1, they left themselves nowhere to go with Gen2 and 3. I guess they count on people not noticing that the Gen3 they're buying has no better images than the Gen1. I have noticed that they tend to use "simple" pictures (i.e. an animal, a field, etc.) for the lower-priced junk, and increase the detail (ships, buildings, vehicles, etc.) as the price goes up. I guess marketing research has shown that that's the best way to dupe people. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 4:42:19 AM EDT
[#8]
RetLawman, I think you're right... People with Gen2/3 budget tend to have military or LE uses for their gear while your average hunter wanting to see animals in the dark is probably going to have very little spare cash. It's somewhat ironic that it's those situations where you need Gen3, while around buildings and in the cities, Gen2 or even Gen1 can be enough. It's important to remember too that although I think these companies should be shamed for their deception that it doesn't automatically make their products junk over their competitors. And more faked images abound on the Internet. I live in hope that the people who put them up will replace them at some point with real images, be they through an intensifier or with a normal camera. And let's face it... When you look at a webpage extolling night vision, then if the image is green, then I'm either expecting it to be because it's coming through a phosphor screen. The next site I found is called Imaging1. These are a normal NV reseller and like most have their images showing the capabilities of their wares. Some mistakes are easy... Perhaps putting a Gen3 shot in place of a Gen2 or even in place of a Gen1. Some images are pretty likley to be NV - eg  The lighting, halos and noise all look authentic and quite a good image. Yet others seem to have the noise but something is wrong...  Huh? Is that "Smoke" I see coming from that tractor? Why, yes it does appear to be exhaust. That tractor is running. And the dynamic range seems too high. Could be a low-gain Gen2 inverter during a moonlit night... The lack of lights? Maybe the city is in wartime - you know - blackout, so that WW2 era bombers can't find it at night... But where are the stars? If there's no light pollution, then why can't we see stars in the sky? Overcast you say, but again, The moon is perfect and overhead and no clouds are visible in light reflected from the ground or diffusing... Hmmm, my spidey-sense is tingling...  Aha!... Clearly not the same image, because this one is facing RIGHT and theirs if facing LEFT... Like the X-files I want to believe. Say it isn't so... Oh no. Even the "scan" lines or whatever those horizontal lines are, are carried over. And they even darkened the image to make it look more "believable"... Maybe just one error huh?  Hmmm. No bloom, Strong shadows, no stars... Yep, another fake... And this classic––  Yes, even if you ignore the lack of lights in the city behind, the lack of cockpit lighting ( might be reflections in the side windows ) and the lack of IR beacons, see all that dust? See those rotors? See the lack of any "sparking" light in the rotor disk? Watch a helicopter land in a sandy area at night with NV and it's like fireworks! This has none... That's a DAYLIGHT picture. Edit: Here's what a helicopter landing where there's dust looks like at night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYAUcBaXmXI Edit: See the difference? The strong shadows and lack of stars are another giveaway.  Here, the DOF seems a giveaway... Not to mention that two soldiers are BOLTING FORWARD in the dark,around large devices... Yeah, could be moonlight, but the lack of stars and DOF give it away... That's a HUGE LENS on whatever took this photo and if it is NV, it's not any lenses I know about.  Yep, strong shadows, thin cloud and no stars... Maybe they took it from a part of the world where there are no stars? Nahh, it's daylight. And I won't even mention the vignetting issues. So, for a site that does have genuine NV pictures ( some are real ) it's so wrong to liberally sprinkle their page with fakes. Shame Imaging1 Shame. If you're selling such great gear, then please let us see real NV photo's. Not these fakes. All you need is a cheap $50 camera and your NV kit. Bad photo's are OK. We can respect that. David. |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 4:57:06 AM EDT
[#9]
Fun thread
How about mixing fakes with real pictures? http://www.imaging1.com/thermal/pvs-14.html http://www.imaging1.com/thermal/NVWS4-night-vision-scope.html Just click on the links, another treasure trove of photos and confusing information. Don't forget your Gen 4 Pinnacle tubes for your PVS-7 here: http://www.imaging1.com/nightvision/AN_PVS.html |
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Posted: 9/5/2010 4:58:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Aww, you beat me to it by just a minute!!
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Posted: 9/5/2010 5:28:34 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Fun thread How about mixing fakes with real pictures? Oh my... So many fakes... The lack of lights and halo's really gives it away in nearly all of those situations. Another site that does it badly is X20.org - which has a connection to Imaging1. Some nice aviation related NV there... But are they really flying that big plane so close to the ground with no nav lights? Wartime simulation?  Nope! It's another fake.  Well, I think it's safe to say they're mixing fake and real imagery too! Shame X20.org, Shame... David. |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 7:50:11 AM EDT
[#12]
That's why I prefer to go legit. After all, who could fake an image this crappy (taken from my Soviet-made Afghani-era NSPU NV scope)?
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Posted: 9/6/2010 9:42:48 AM EDT
[#13]
fake footage in an ad for Laser Genetics laser, this one is so bad its funny
2 minutes in  |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 4:21:50 PM EDT
[#14]
http://www.nightvisionsales.com/product_info.php/products_id/2752
Here is a link to a Leopard in a tree. Not a real night vision photo. Seems ATN has been deleting many of their night vision photos. I wonder why...  No worries mate , I have them ALL saved ! This is not just directed at ATN. Why do so many night vision company's feel the need to fake night vision photos ? Stop drinking the Kool Aid and open your eyes ! A reputable night vision company DOES NOT need to resort to these tactics. David, thank you for taking the time to point out these obvious fakes. Very good info for all. Honesty and integrity means a lot to me and many others !
I will not spend my money with people who use these tactics to lure in the inexperienced buyer. YMMV.
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Posted: 9/6/2010 4:22:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
fake footage in an ad for Laser Genetics laser, this one is so bad its funny 2 minutes in  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdfdIgjj2Xk
Meh... Pretty good green flashlight !
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Posted: 9/6/2010 11:53:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
fake footage in an ad for Laser Genetics laser, this one is so bad its funny 2 minutes in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdfdIgjj2Xk
Meh... Pretty good green flashlight ! Have either of you used that device? Not sure of the video, or what it was suppose to represent, but I can tell you that device is a strange tool. It projects a very defined green light for quite some distance without any stray light as you would have in a normal white light flashlight. I'm not sure that I would call it a laser per say but it pretty much does what they advertise. So I'm not sure the video is inaccurate, but the video posted is not what I would call definitive. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 12:31:41 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
fake footage in an ad for Laser Genetics laser, this one is so bad its funny 2 minutes in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdfdIgjj2Xk
Meh... Pretty good green flashlight ! Have either of you used that device? Not sure of the video, or what it was suppose to represent, but I can tell you that device is a strange tool. It projects a very defined green light for quite some distance without any stray light as you would have in a normal white light flashlight. I'm not sure that I would call it a laser per say but it pretty much does what they advertise. So I'm not sure the video is inaccurate, but the video posted is not what I would call definitive. I don't believe that video to be a fake. That said it is just a green laser illuminater. Seen a few threads on this before in other forums and this one. Most were not impressed but some liked it. I can't truly say because I have not personally used it but I don't consider it night vision. One thread I remember in particular said the prey quickly became aware of it and scattered due to the light. If you want to talk about it some more we can start a new thread in L&L that way we don't hijack this one.
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Posted: 9/7/2010 2:35:49 AM EDT
[#18]
http://www.nightvisionus.com/NightVision/WPT_Night-Vision
Here is a good link to some photos from a ATN distributor . This is for ATN white phosphor tubes (aka DEP onyx tube). We have a yacht cruising at night with no nav lights. We have a image of a city at night. The city must be experiencing a power outage because I can't see one light on.
The last photo was already debunked by David. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:21:29 AM EDT
[#19]
Yes, these are the key things to look for. Lights where there should be none, no light where there should be, clouds visible without coverage but no stars. Lack of scintillations or other NV artifacts, Fake vignetting ( quite a frequent one ) Infinite DOF with close-up in focus as well as infinity and the likes. If you scroll through the pictures, you'll find this gem.  Interesting pic. But the bush on the left isn't blooming and the black on the right has no scintillations and obscures everything, with steady deterioration of the image with distance. See the distinctive pattern of a shadow around edges indicating a slight misplacement between a light source and the camera? Oops... Standard night-time "flash" photography has that kind of pattern... :( Looks like the source of this one is clear. Now, honestly, that image does no justice to even a poor NV device... And there's a PS-22 in the image! Coloring in this image green is a cheap tacky fake that really sets a low standard. This image should have been included in it's original color format or B&W at the least. Shame ATN Shame. David |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:36:06 AM EDT
[#20]
Hi FlaDevmeister
Nice image and it looks real. A few clues? The distortion looks about right and the scintillations give that the eyepiece is in focus. Not for everyone following this thread, I'm going to drop a tough question... Faked or Real?... For this next image. This is a photograph comparison on the ITT NV website... Use every technique and clue available and let me know if you think ITT faked the "Competitor" or if you think it's real. Provide reasoning for your decision. I've analyzed this one closely and the result may surprise you... There are clues everywhere - in fact, just about every clue we've talked about is in here somewhere. Hint: You can click on individual photo's for a close-look without the background information. There is also background information on the comparison. David |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 6:45:18 AM EDT
[#21]
By looking at the graffiti lines , brick mortar lines in relation to where the man is standing I can see it is two different photos.
I will say it is very hard to tell and you really have to study it ! |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 8:48:49 AM EDT
[#22]
Wow, companies who alter photos of their product to sell the dream.... Who'd have ever expected?
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Posted: 9/7/2010 9:31:10 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Wow, companies who alter photos of their product to sell the dream.... Who'd have ever expected? True but spending a couple of G's and finding out for yourself that what you thought you were getting is total BS is a bit of a letdown. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 10:38:57 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow, companies who alter photos of their product to sell the dream.... Who'd have ever expected? True but spending a couple of G's and finding out for yourself that what you thought you were getting is total BS is a bit of a letdown. Well said, to say the least... |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 3:15:05 PM EDT
[#25]
+1 to that, this is the first of several clues as to the real origin of this image... There are more clues both inside the photo and in the claims presented about it. Quoted: By looking at the graffiti lines , brick mortar lines in relation to where the man is standing I can see it is two different photos. I will say it is very hard to tell and you really have to study it ! |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 6:23:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
+1 to that, this is the first of several clues as to the real origin of this image... There are more clues both inside the photo and in the claims presented about it.
Quoted:
By looking at the graffiti lines , brick mortar lines in relation to where the man is standing I can see it is two different photos.
I will say it is very hard to tell and you really have to study it ! Said the competing tube was older technology commonly sold to law enforcement as "the latest". Now, this can't be what I think it is could it ? Please tell me I am wrong ! This can't be a tube without a film....
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Posted: 9/8/2010 5:54:41 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: +1 to that, this is the first of several clues as to the real origin of this image... There are more clues both inside the photo and in the claims presented about it. Quoted: By looking at the graffiti lines , brick mortar lines in relation to where the man is standing I can see it is two different photos. I will say it is very hard to tell and you really have to study it ! Said the competing tube was older technology commonly sold to law enforcement as "the latest". Now, this can't be what I think it is could it ? Please tell me I am wrong ! This can't be a tube without a film....Actually, I'm pretty sure it was a tube without a film... But not the kind you're thinking of... The P20 phosphor is kind of obvious. +1 for another clue... The implied sarcasm by using quotes suggests that this isn't a new tube, but an older tube... One which is grossly misrepresented by the seller. I'd love to know the story behind that tube. The final clue is the lack of scintillation... So, I'm not sure if the tube is faulty or if the photographer was out of focus. He's a professional photographer so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a power supply related MTF issue. The final verdict? It's a real image. They really over-did it and I don't think it would be easy to find a tube that bad ( but clearly not impossible ) and some of the comments? A bit over the top and definitely questionable. And I'm a little disappointed that ITT used that image, because it really looks bad and makes it look like they are faking it, but after examining the evidence, it looks like it is real. As for it's relevance to this thread? There are plenty of bad "real" pics out there... Once again, no need to fake it ! David. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 6:41:59 PM EDT
[#28]
Here is my faked photo.
What do you guys think? 
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Posted: 9/8/2010 6:44:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Here is my faked photo. What do you guys think? http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab302/sniper907/jessicaPVS.jpg +1 if your gonna fake it might as well be something nice to look at !
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Posted: 9/8/2010 9:40:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Here is my faked photo. What do you guys think? http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab302/sniper907/jessicaPVS.jpg +1 if your gonna fake it might as well be something nice to look at ! Hmmm, I don't know... I mean they could be fake and they might be real... I'll need to see more before I can decide... Half a dozen more should do it !
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Posted: 9/9/2010 3:09:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Here is my faked photo. What do you guys think? http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab302/sniper907/jessicaPVS.jpg Best "NV" photo I've seen in a while! |
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Posted: 9/9/2010 3:40:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here is my faked photo. What do you guys think? http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab302/sniper907/jessicaPVS.jpg +1 if your gonna fake it might as well be something nice to look at ! Hmmm, I don't know... I mean they could be fake and they might be real... I'll need to see more before I can decide... Half a dozen more should do it ! I thought you were an expert ??? Of all people you should be able to determine fake or real...
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Posted: 9/9/2010 4:37:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here is my faked photo. What do you guys think? http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab302/sniper907/jessicaPVS.jpg +1 if your gonna fake it might as well be something nice to look at ! Hmmm, I don't know... I mean they could be fake and they might be real... I'll need to see more before I can decide... Half a dozen more should do it ! I thought you were an expert ??? Of all people you should be able to determine fake or real... He needs to see if her nipples bloom.
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Posted: 9/17/2010 7:19:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Well, Imaging1, you've been caught out again !...  This on has taken me a while to debunk... Some are HUGELY suspicious, but this one didn't have anything I could prove. It might just have been a very bright moonlight night, except it looks like of P20 green for that. I would have called it a fake based on the dynamic range, but before now, I couldn't prove it. Anyway,  Capt. Milton Eng Field tests a GVS-5 laser rangefinder. Well, what could it be? A statue out in the desert? Perhaps. Shame, Imaging1, Shame. Caught out again... At least you're using Public Domain pictures. David.
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Posted: 9/17/2010 7:24:43 PM EDT
[#35]
You,re good !
Edwin's picture is still better though !
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Posted: 9/18/2010 3:08:12 PM EDT
[#36]
While this thread is based on epic fail, I'd say it is turning into epic win for the end users. I'd say ATN has some 'splaining to do... (so do any of the folks that deal with them).
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Posted: 9/18/2010 7:55:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: While this thread is based on epic fail, I'd say it is turning into epic win for the end users. I'd say ATN has some 'splaining to do... (so do any of the folks that deal with them). Yes, but how exactly do they explain something like this?  Are they seriously suggesting using ATN Night Vision for watching your friends climb cliff faces in complete darkness without Night Vision? But there's more... Fake NV just isn't enough. Check out that beard! WTF?  Yes, even the beard is fake... Fake ruggedness for a fake man observing fake mountain climbers climbing at fake-night. I just can't get over this one. This has to be an all-time classic, matched only by their paramilitary yachtsmen photo. David. Edit: Nope, on second thoughts, I think the man and climbers are real... Somehow, that only makes it worse  |
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Posted: 9/18/2010 8:19:06 PM EDT
[#38]
The shame doesn't end... Is there no end to the deception? Consider this... ATN sell thermal fusion scopes. These are not cheap items and are very high end military devices. But there's something not right about the thermal image... Why is the vehicle shell hotter than the people inside it? And the tires? The spare is the same temperature as the wheels. And since when did thermal fusions use green on green? uh oh... I smell a fake.  Yep, they took an image, converted to black and white, inverted it and painted it green... Shame ATN shame... That's a lousy fake and I won't even go into the deception on resolution. David. |
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Posted: 9/19/2010 9:01:03 AM EDT
[#39]
Well,
according to this site GSCI that FIITS system is not considered a fusion system as claimed by ATN. |
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Posted: 9/19/2010 9:45:03 AM EDT
[#40]
What is fusion anyway? It is quite clear that the thing combines thermal monocular and intensifier monocular. If fusion means that the two are combined to single image it clearly isn't such a device.
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Posted: 9/19/2010 10:53:18 AM EDT
[#41]
I think that's basically what they are inferring, that GSCI company has other devices which they classify as true fusion devices, but they also seem to be the same as the FIITS, one I2 and one Thermal device over each eye. If you have two different devices, one thermal and one I2 like that FIITS system, that doesn't necessarily mean that your going to have a smooth time working out the two different displays which present different info and fields of view to each eye. Your one eye may want to be dominant, and even if one eye isn't dominant, if for instance it's displayed a much brighter thermal image compared to the dimmer I2 image, it can be difficult to make the system work and can cause eye strain pretty fast.
All of the above devices seem to work on the principle of dichoptically fused imagery. There's an interesting study done with a Mini N/SEAS and a Raytheon Thermal Eye XP100 using dichoptically fused techniques at the link: Dichoptically Fused Techniques Then you can fuse both thermal and I2 into a single device that goes only over one eye. This is what seems to be the common perception of what a true fusion night vision device is. |
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Posted: 9/19/2010 2:34:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Hmmm. Quite an interesting point. I think they probably get away with the vagueness of the description but it's rather questionable that they would try to. In any event, we're denied any real opportunity to decide for ourselves because of the extensive use of fake imagery... :( David
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Posted: 9/23/2010 3:04:15 PM EDT
[#43]
Ahh, well, I've been saving this image up, but it's not what you think it is... Could ANY company be so bold as to use real and honest imagery?
Unfortunately, yes, I found one... Though I can't cast any shame on their product or their advertising, which all seem to be paragons of virtue, I laughed myself silly at their choice if images...  Notice anything weird about this image? It's from their product brochures and their website. Something not quite right there... Transaero, out of all your products, this was the best photo you have of a L3 mx11769? :( WHAT ARE YOU DOING? If EVER there was a valid reason to use photoshop, this is it. For goodness sake, FIX THAT PHOTO UP... There is no shame in fixing this photo, but using it is just plain wrong :( LOL
David. |
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Posted: 9/23/2010 3:14:27 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Ahh, well, I've been saving this image up, but it's not what you think it is... Could ANY company be so bold as to use real and honest imagery? Unfortunately, yes, I found one... Though I can't cast any shame on their product or their advertising, which all seem to be paragons of virtue, I laughed myself silly at their choice if images... Notice anything weird about this image? It's from their product brochures and their website. Something not quite right there... Transaero, out of all your products, this was the best photo you have of a L3 mx11769? :( WHAT ARE YOU DOING? If EVER there was a valid reason to use photoshop, this is it. For goodness sake, FIX THAT PHOTO UP... There is no shame in fixing this photo, but using it is just plain wrong :( LOL
David. This is funny as hell. I won't give away what the issue is . LOL Lets see who gets it first.
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Posted: 9/24/2010 2:46:21 AM EDT
[#45]
When I installed these into the test fittings before final installation into the UNS years ago, I usually would want my pins to be straight..... Why in the world did they use that photo? Why do they hate Litton so?
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Posted: 9/24/2010 4:06:00 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Why do they hate Litton so? They are Litton's major distributor I can't help but wonder why that image has been up for so long.. At least no one can accuse Litton of doctoring photos or even exaggerating them for commercial gain! L3 - +1 for honesty... -1 for common sense. Score: 0.... No shame, but very funny - and shows that marketing guys just don't get it. David.
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Posted: 9/24/2010 4:36:22 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
When I installed these into the test fittings before final installation into the UNS years ago, I usually would want my pins to be straight..... Why in the world did they use that photo? Why do they hate Litton so?
Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner ! What is the prize CJ7 ?
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Posted: 9/24/2010 5:13:08 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Quoted: When I installed these into the test fittings before final installation into the UNS years ago, I usually would want my pins to be straight..... Why in the world did they use that photo? Why do they hate Litton so? Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner ! What is the prize CJ7 ?Heh, I got a special prize for that - since we're on the subtopic of not-so-shameful images.  Is this ATN's only real image? It certainly looks real enough! David. |
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Posted: 9/24/2010 7:41:57 AM EDT
[#49]
Yes , the helicopter photo looks real. Harder to find a real one then the fakes ! LOL
Maybe that is how things are done in Odessa... |
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Posted: 9/24/2010 10:50:08 AM EDT
[#50]
Okay, not entirely related to false images of night vision, but I found the photo too funny not to comment.
link is Here There's the same photos of the house that ATN uses, but look on the left side of the page... All I'll say is that it's no wonder the Kaiser lost the war with the allies fighting in the trenches with night vision gear!!
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