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Posted: 3/18/2024 3:46:34 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cherenkov: Why can't a NICS check be good for a much wider window of time? Say at least a year? or have a frequent NFA form that is used for a wide window of time. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cherenkov: Why can't a NICS check be good for a much wider window of time? Say at least a year? or have a frequent NFA form that is used for a wide window of time. Because the Brady Law requires it for Title I and the NFA requires it for Title II. If one can get a pre-screening for flying why not for NFA? Because neither the NFA or Brady Laws allows it. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 4:19:38 PM EDT
[#2]
So adding your SSN can speed things up? I never did and am reluctant to so so. What do most people do?
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Posted: 3/18/2024 4:21:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By defenderhome: So adding your SSN can speed things up? I never did and am reluctant to so so. What do most people do? I put my SSN down. Never had an issue. Not really worried about the LGS's around here stealing my SSN. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 4:55:28 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cherenkov: Why can't a NICS check be good for a much wider window of time? Say at least a year? or have a frequent NFA form that is used for a wide window of time. If one can get a pre-screening for flying why not for NFA? Because gun control is intended to restrict your 2nd Amendment rights, not make it easier to exercise them. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 4:55:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By defenderhome: So adding your SSN can speed things up? I never did and am reluctant to so so. What do most people do? I am always an "immediate" proceed if I include my Social Security Number. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 5:07:21 PM EDT
[#6]
I am always an "immediate" proceed without including my Social Security Number.
It kinda depends on how common your name is. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 5:10:27 PM EDT
[#7]
N"I"CS is not "Instant" for most of my Hispanic customers, even w/ a SSN. It discriminates against the color of your skin and the naming conventions of your culture.
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Posted: 3/18/2024 5:12:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KitBuilder: I am always an "immediate" proceed without including my Social Security Number. It kinda depends on how common your name is. For many years I did not put my SSN and never had an issue. Then one time I was put on a hold and delayed. I started putting in my SSN and have not been delayed since. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 5:47:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: N"I"CS is not "Instant" for most of my Hispanic customers, even w/ a SSN. It discriminates against the color of your skin and the naming conventions of your culture. "Instant" doesn't mean instant "Proceed", it means instant status, and that status can be proceed, delayed, denied. etc.  I have fewer delays on Hispanic and Asian last names than Anglo last names. And "Hispanic" has nothing to do with skin color, its an ethnicity. You can be Hispanic/White, Hispanic/Black, Hispanic/American Indian, etc. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 6:02:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DogtownTom: "Instant" doesn't mean instant "Proceed", it means instant status, and that status can be proceed, delayed, denied. etc. I have fewer delays on Hispanic and Asian last names than Anglo last names. And "Hispanic" has nothing to do with skin color, its an ethnicity. You can be Hispanic/White, Hispanic/Black, Hispanic/American Indian, etc. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: N"I"CS is not "Instant" for most of my Hispanic customers, even w/ a SSN. It discriminates against the color of your skin and the naming conventions of your culture. "Instant" doesn't mean instant "Proceed", it means instant status, and that status can be proceed, delayed, denied. etc. I have fewer delays on Hispanic and Asian last names than Anglo last names. And "Hispanic" has nothing to do with skin color, its an ethnicity. You can be Hispanic/White, Hispanic/Black, Hispanic/American Indian, etc. The most common response I get on my Hispanic customers is Processing, which makes them wait 30 minutes. That's not "Instant". And it happens most often to my brown skinned Hispanic customers. So NICS does apparently discriminate against the color of the customer's skin. A right delayed is a right denied. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 6:39:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: The most common response I get on my Hispanic customers is Processing, which makes them wait 30 minutes. That's not "Instant". And it happens most often to my brown skinned Hispanic customers. So NICS does apparently discriminate against the color of the customer's skin. A right delayed is a right denied. If you call NICS they will instantly tell you "Delayed". "Processing" is a temporary status only on eCheck. Prior to eCheck, NICS would forward the phone call to a NICS Examiner who would review the records while you waited. They quit doing that a decade ago. Skin color isn't a choice on the Form 4473. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 6:41:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bye_Felicia]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: The most common response I get on my Hispanic customers is Processing, which makes them wait 30 minutes. That's not "Instant". And it happens most often to my brown skinned Hispanic customers. So NICS does apparently discriminate against the color of the customer's skin. A right delayed is a right denied. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: N"I"CS is not "Instant" for most of my Hispanic customers, even w/ a SSN. It discriminates against the color of your skin and the naming conventions of your culture. "Instant" doesn't mean instant "Proceed", it means instant status, and that status can be proceed, delayed, denied. etc. I have fewer delays on Hispanic and Asian last names than Anglo last names. And "Hispanic" has nothing to do with skin color, its an ethnicity. You can be Hispanic/White, Hispanic/Black, Hispanic/American Indian, etc. The most common response I get on my Hispanic customers is Processing, which makes them wait 30 minutes. That's not "Instant". And it happens most often to my brown skinned Hispanic customers. So NICS does apparently discriminate against the color of the customer's skin. A right delayed is a right denied.  I get you are trying to play the game, but it's all about what is in the system. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 6:46:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bye_Felicia: I get you are trying to play the game, but it's all about what is in the system. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bye_Felicia: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: N"I"CS is not "Instant" for most of my Hispanic customers, even w/ a SSN. It discriminates against the color of your skin and the naming conventions of your culture. "Instant" doesn't mean instant "Proceed", it means instant status, and that status can be proceed, delayed, denied. etc. I have fewer delays on Hispanic and Asian last names than Anglo last names. And "Hispanic" has nothing to do with skin color, its an ethnicity. You can be Hispanic/White, Hispanic/Black, Hispanic/American Indian, etc. The most common response I get on my Hispanic customers is Processing, which makes them wait 30 minutes. That's not "Instant". And it happens most often to my brown skinned Hispanic customers. So NICS does apparently discriminate against the color of the customer's skin. A right delayed is a right denied. I get you are trying to play the game, but it's all about what is in the system. Play their own rules against them. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 7:13:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Play their own rules against them. How so? |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:25:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DogtownTom: How so? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: Play their own rules against them. How so? Claim systemic discrimination based on race/ethnicity. For me, Hispanics get Processing for half an hour more than any other customers I have. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:39:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Claim systemic discrimination based on race/ethnicity. For me, Hispanics get Processing for half an hour more than any other customers I have. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: Play their own rules against them. How so? Claim systemic discrimination based on race/ethnicity. For me, Hispanics get Processing for half an hour more than any other customers I have. Good luck with that. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 5:19:30 AM EDT
[#17]
I get quick approvals without using my SSN. I also have an uncommon last name.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/20/2024 8:44:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TactiCoolBro]
[#18]
I always use my social AND a UPIN and my last suppressor still took 385 days. And I have a last name that I’ve never, ever seen before outside of my small family. I have a clean record. One arrest, but charge was dropped like 3 weeks later.
I have another I submitted in January and apparently not one of the lucky ones with that one either. 68 days today on that one. |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 7:27:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TactiCoolBro: I have a clean record. One arrest, but charge was dropped like 3 weeks later. Nope you don't have a clean record... or at least, you don't have clean data. The FBI knows about the arrest and charge but not the dismissal of the charge in its system, so someone has to go looking for the outcome every time. The arresting agency needs to send the disposition of the charge to the FBI. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/20/2024 9:00:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bubbles: Nope you don't have a clean record... or at least, you don't have clean data. The FBI knows about the arrest and charge but not the dismissal of the charge in its system, so someone has to go looking for the outcome every time. The arresting agency needs to send the disposition of the charge to the FBI. What’s involved in doing that? And what’s the point of a UPIN in the first place if they still have to do all that? Lol |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 9:03:10 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TactiCoolBro: What’s involved in doing that? And what’s the point of a UPIN in the first place if they still have to do all that? Lol Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TactiCoolBro: Originally Posted By Bubbles: Nope you don't have a clean record... or at least, you don't have clean data. The FBI knows about the arrest and charge but not the dismissal of the charge in its system, so someone has to go looking for the outcome every time. The arresting agency needs to send the disposition of the charge to the FBI. What’s involved in doing that? And what’s the point of a UPIN in the first place if they still have to do all that? Lol The government is incredibly stupid and laden with bureaucracy |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/20/2024 10:13:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: The government is incredibly stupid and laden with bureaucracy I mean I thought the entire point of having a UPIN in the first place is so the person doing the NICS check isn’t having to do all this supposed “looking into” since, you know…they did all that when they approved you for the fucking UPIN… |
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Posted: 3/20/2024 10:29:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TactiCoolBro: I mean I thought the entire point of having a UPIN in the first place is so the person doing the NICS check isn’t having to do all this supposed “looking into” since, you know…they did all that when they approved you for the fucking UPIN… Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TactiCoolBro: Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: The government is incredibly stupid and laden with bureaucracy I mean I thought the entire point of having a UPIN in the first place is so the person doing the NICS check isn’t having to do all this supposed “looking into” since, you know…they did all that when they approved you for the fucking UPIN… One would think |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 7:31:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Glocked]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TactiCoolBro: I mean I thought the entire point of having a UPIN in the first place is so the person doing the NICS check isn’t having to do all this supposed “looking into” since, you know…they did all that when they approved you for the fucking UPIN… Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TactiCoolBro: Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: The government is incredibly stupid and laden with bureaucracy I mean I thought the entire point of having a UPIN in the first place is so the person doing the NICS check isn’t having to do all this supposed “looking into” since, you know…they did all that when they approved you for the fucking UPIN… NICS has to purge itself constantly, because they can’t(aren’t supposed to) keep records. The UPIN(VAF) gives them your permission to keep a file on you. So, when they run your check, instead of them having to research it every single time, which usually means reaching out to whoever owns the info in your record and requesting what they need. All that info is stored, accessed with your UPIN. Even with a UPIN, they still have to run the check. The delay even with UPIN is because it still requires a human to look at and approve it. This will show you what they are seeing when they run your name. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 9:58:22 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glocked: NICS has to purge itself constantly, because they can’t(aren’t supposed to) keep records. The UPIN(VAF) gives them your permission to keep a file on you. So, when they run your check, instead of them having to research it every single time, which usually means reaching out to whoever owns the info in your record and requesting what they need. All that info is stored, accessed with your UPIN. Even with a UPIN, they still have to run the check. The delay even with UPIN is because it still requires a human to look at and approve it. This will show you what they are seeing when they run your name. This. When your dealer runs an FBI NICS check, he'll get a proceed/delayed/denied response from NICS. Federal law requires that "proceeds" be deleted from NICS at the close of the NICS business day. "Delayed" are held open until the status changes to "proceed". BG checks that result in a "denied" status are held open permanently. As Glocked mentions, getting that UPIN means your file at NICS is kept open and allows the FBI NICS Examiner to review your information immediately. Unlike a state firearm permit that allows an exemption to the NICS check, a UPIN doesn't. You write your UPIN on the 4473 and the dealer gives that to NICS. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 10:23:28 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glocked: NICS has to purge itself constantly, because they can’t(aren’t supposed to) keep records. The UPIN(VAF) gives them your permission to keep a file on you. So, when they run your check, instead of them having to research it every single time, which usually means reaching out to whoever owns the info in your record and requesting what they need. All that info is stored, accessed with your UPIN. Even with a UPIN, they still have to run the check. The delay even with UPIN is because it still requires a human to look at and approve it. This will show you what they are seeing when they run your name. Is there a way to get the arrest off my record since it never resulted in a charge? |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 10:24:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DogtownTom]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TactiCoolBro: Is there a way to get the arrest off my record since it never resulted in a charge? Not likely. but thats not the problem, its the missing disposition that will continue until that agency updates NICS. Bubbles mentioned this in post#19 |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:28:09 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DogtownTom: Not likely. but thats not the problem, its the missing disposition that will continue until that agency updates NICS. Bubbles mentioned this in post#19 So just contact the arresting agency and tell them to send the FBI the proper paperwork showing that the charge was dropped? |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:37:58 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TactiCoolBro: So just contact the arresting agency and tell them to send the FBI the proper paperwork showing that the charge was dropped? Then after that's updated, try to get the entire arrest expunged. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:40:41 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TactiCoolBro: Is there a way to get the arrest off my record since it never resulted in a charge? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TactiCoolBro: Originally Posted By Glocked: NICS has to purge itself constantly, because they can’t(aren’t supposed to) keep records. The UPIN(VAF) gives them your permission to keep a file on you. So, when they run your check, instead of them having to research it every single time, which usually means reaching out to whoever owns the info in your record and requesting what they need. All that info is stored, accessed with your UPIN. Even with a UPIN, they still have to run the check. The delay even with UPIN is because it still requires a human to look at and approve it. This will show you what they are seeing when they run your name. Is there a way to get the arrest off my record since it never resulted in a charge? That’s lawyer kind of advice lol or at least someone familiar with your laws. It likely depends. On your state, on the arresting agency, on the courts. Most have some version of expungement, clearance letters, or ways to update your arrest info. All that info and changes can be submitted with your UPIN application too. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2024 3:26:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glocked: That’s lawyer kind of advice lol or at least someone familiar with your laws. It likely depends. On your state, on the arresting agency, on the courts. Most have some version of expungement, clearance letters, or ways to update your arrest info. All that info and changes can be submitted with your UPIN application too. Oh I’ve applied and been approved for a UPIN a long time ago. Lol |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 12:43:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macloud: My paper form 4 will hit the PO box tomorrow. We shall see how long it takes. |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 12:50:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By txgunguy: But why? What is the point of a paper form? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By txgunguy: Originally Posted By macloud: My paper form 4 will hit the PO box tomorrow. We shall see how long it takes. You get a cool physical stamp |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2024 5:21:45 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: You get a cool physical stamp Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Originally Posted By txgunguy: Originally Posted By macloud: My paper form 4 will hit the PO box tomorrow. We shall see how long it takes. You get a cool physical stamp Yup, it’s also the only way to transfer in state between non SOTs and they generally allow corrections instead of just disapproving it and having to start all over. |
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