Amend Form 1 prior to building the gun? SBR-related. - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Amend Form 1 prior to building the gun? SBR-related.

Posted: 7/3/2017 12:14:29 AM EDT

So I submitted a Form 1 to SBR another AR lower back in July of Last year. I had no real plans/use for it, but I figured why the hell not, since the 41p stuff was about to go into effect.

Anyways, the Form 1 was to SBR an AR lower from a 0% forging. So I made up a serial (which I no longer remember) and sent the paperwork in.

Fast forward a year, and now I'm getting a complete lower in a group buy. Kind of a special deal. And I kinda want to SBR it.

When I get my Form 1 back, can I call up the ATF and say "Hey, I haven't built that SBR yet, but I need to amend the paperwork on it before I do so. The serial number is ACTUALLY xxx and the other identifying marks are ACTUALLY yyy"

Can I do that? Is there a specific form to do it or do I just call them up?

Posted: 7/3/2017 12:43:57 AM EDT

[#1]

I don't think that would work.

You'll definitely want to wait until you actually possess the group buy lower before doing any NFA paperwork on it. When the older F1 comes back, you can cancel it if you don't want to build it anymore. You'll get your $200 refunded.

Posted: 7/3/2017 1:14:45 PM EDT

[#2]

Hm. Bummer. Anyone else?

Posted: 7/3/2017 1:29:33 PM EDT

[#3]

No, the above is correct. There's no amending.

Posted: 7/3/2017 3:19:58 PM EDT

[#4]

blech,

thanks for the info, guys.

Posted: 7/3/2017 5:07:08 PM EDT

[#5]

You'll wait appropriately two years before you receive acknowledgement of your request.

Posted: 7/3/2017 6:58:29 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
You'll wait appropriately two years before you receive acknowledgement of your request.

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Wait, so they will or they won't amend?

Posted: 7/3/2017 7:23:49 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:

Wait, so they will or they won't amend?

View Quote

They will amend things like permanent changes to the caiber, barrel length, or OAL, but I've never heard of them amending the serial number, and yes they have historically taken years to aknowledge an amendment to a form.

One idea I've thought of when this sort of thing comes up, what if you took the 100% receiver and engraved your own serial number and then milled off the original. There is that law about not defacing serial numbers, but since you are "making" an new firearm with the form 1, would that come into play? I'm not certain myself but if it were allowable it could be a better solution over cancellation and re-filing a new form.

Posted: 7/3/2017 7:54:51 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:

They will amend things like permanent changes to the caiber, barrel length, or OAL, but I've never heard of them amending the serial number, and yes they have historically taken years to aknowledge an amendment to a form.

One idea I've thought of when this sort of thing comes up, what if you took the 100% receiver and engraved your own serial number and then milled off the original. There is that law about not defacing serial numbers, but since you are "making" an new firearm with the form 1, would that come into play? I'm not certain myself but if it were allowable it could be a better solution over cancellation and re-filing a new form.

View Quote

Or for that matter, what's to stop me from engraving the group buy receiver with the Form 1 receiver number on the opposite side and just leaving the other serial alone? I mean, pragmatically nothing, of course. But legally speaking.

And as far as "other identifying marks go" yeah, those wouldn't be listed on the form I submitted. But does that mean it's illegal to engrave any additional words or symbols on an SBR'ed AR lower after the fact? I doubt it. In fact, to be truly conscientious about it, you'd then want to notify the ATF that you'd added other identifying marks to your registered SBR, wouldn't you? To make sure the registry is accurate and up to date, right? I mean that's the right thing to do, isn't it?

Posted: 7/4/2017 5:10:58 PM EDT

[#9]

I think the main thing would be the serial number. They don't want multiple serial numbers, and they don't want you removing the current one. If you weren't too specific with your original info, maybe you could have slipped and said "oh, sorry, I didn't know I was supposed to copy the original info, can I change it?" but I doubt they'd do it anyway.

"Cancel and resubmit" would probably be your answer to everything.

Posted: 7/4/2017 5:21:40 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think the main thing would be the serial number. They don't want multiple serial numbers, and they don't want you removing the current one. If you weren't too specific with your original info, maybe you could have slipped and said "oh, sorry, I didn't know I was supposed to copy the original info, can I change it?" but I doubt they'd do it anyway.

"Cancel and resubmit" would probably be your answer to everything.

View Quote

Original info specified only the serial number I was to assign it. No manufacturer, no other marks, no nothin'

This was originally going to be for a 0% forging (because why not, right?)

But...

For example, I already have another SBR...

What would happen if I decided to engrave something on it additionally? Something that wasn't in the original paperwork I submitted? Am I now in violation of the marking requirement? Or have I retro-actively filled out my Form 1 incorrectly?

Posted: 7/4/2017 5:41:08 PM EDT

[#11]

Original info specified only the serial number I was to assign it. No manufacturer

View Quote

Check your form. You would have had to put your name (or Trust name) as the manufacturer. It's not something that can be left blank.

Posted: 7/4/2017 5:57:13 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Check your form. You would have had to put your name (or Trust name) as the manufacturer. It's not something that can be left blank.

View Quote

I really wish I'd kept a copy for myself before I shipped it off.

Posted: 7/4/2017 5:57:57 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

Original info specified only the serial number I was to assign it. No manufacturer, no other marks, no nothin'

This was originally going to be for a 0% forging (because why not, right?)

But...

For example, I already have another SBR...

What would happen if I decided to engrave something on it additionally? Something that wasn't in the original paperwork I submitted? Am I now in violation of the marking requirement? Or have I retro-actively filled out my Form 1 incorrectly?

View Quote

You can engrave anything you want ABOVE the required, but serial numbers are the sticking point still, IMO. You'd have to see if the requirement to re-use the existing serial number is an actual requirement or an ATF "you should do this".

If you have any input into this group buy you're involved with, you could maybe see if they could give you a gun with the serial number you said it would be!

Posted: 7/4/2017 6:04:58 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:

You can engrave anything you want ABOVE the required, but serial numbers are the sticking point still, IMO. You'd have to see if the requirement to re-use the existing serial number is an actual requirement or an ATF "you should do this".

If you have any input into this group buy you're involved with, you could maybe see if they could give you a gun with the serial number you said it would be!

View Quote

Like I said... I sure wish I'd made myself a copy of that form 1.

That would be a great idea, tho, thanks.

Posted: 7/21/2017 10:33:55 PM EDT

[#15]

Got the form 1 back...

... I forgot to fill in number 8. Oops. Hopefully the revision won't take a whole year, too.

Posted: 7/22/2017 12:06:53 AM EDT

[#16]

Your name and title? How did you forget that? lol
Since they haven't processed it, I'd call and ask for your examiner and ask if you can send that in for the group buy lower instead, with your name and title added of course.

Good chance they won't care if you revise make/model/serial also.

Posted: 7/23/2017 10:18:06 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
Your name and title? How did you forget that? lol
Since they haven't processed it, I'd call and ask for your examiner and ask if you can send that in for the group buy lower instead, with your name and title added of course.

Good chance they won't care if you revise make/model/serial also.

View Quote

Weapons grade autism. That's how.

Posted: 7/24/2017 10:53:15 PM EDT

[#18]

So I sent in two form 1s last year. Same day.

One for a SBR the other for a suppressor.

The SBR form came back last week requesting a revision, to fill in question 8. Ok, whatever. Did so and sent it in. Put in "1Andy2, Trustee"

The suppressor form came back today... approved. And I left question 8 blank on that one, too. They highlighted it just like they did on the sbr form, like maybe they were going to ask me to fill it in and just forgot to put the revision letter in the envelope too? But it says approved and it's got a stamp on it so...

Who am I to argue with the ATF?

Looking back through old forms, my old doublestar receiver that I form 1 sbr'd... I left question 8 blank on that one, too and it got approved. That was back in 2012.

No rhyme or reason. Whatever.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Amend Form 1 prior to building the gun? SBR-related.

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