User Panel
Posted: 2/8/2017 6:30:16 AM EDT
by any chance is there a place that will ship you an NFA engraved trigger guard for an AR15?
seems like it would be a quick and easy NFA business. just order it up and install the trigger guard. local engraving place is being annoying and these are my first exploits into NFA toys. |
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by any chance is there a place that will ship you an NFA engraved trigger guard for an AR15? seems like it would be a quick and easy NFA business. just order it up and install the trigger guard. local engraving place is being annoying and these are my first exploits into NFA toys. View Quote Lots of places probably would... But it would be pointless, as engraving a removable trigger guard doesn't meet the engraving requirements. Nothing stopping you from installing one on every SBR you own, but they'd also need to be marked on the frame, receiver, barrel or pistol slide (if applicable). |
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If your local engraver is being annoying, you need a new engraver. THSF for example.
As BW said, a removable trigger guard doesn't meet the engraving requirements. Otherwise everyone would engrave there, of course. |
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If your local engraver is being annoying, you need a new engraver. THSF for example. As BW said, a removable trigger guard doesn't meet the engraving requirements. Otherwise everyone would engrave there, of course. View Quote Huh, I would have guessed that since the bbl is removable that the trigger guard would be ok |
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The barrel is named by statute. That's why it's an acceptable location.
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Huh, I would have guessed that since the bbl is removable that the trigger guard would be ok View Quote As mentioned above: § 479.102 How must firearms be identified? (a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows: (1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and (2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes: (i) The model, if such designation has been made; (ii) The caliber or gauge; (iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker; (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and (v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134. Pistol slide was added in ATF Ruling 2013-3, as pistol-based SBRs weren't really a consideration when the regulations were written. |
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Why don't more people mark their name/city/state on the barrel when they Form 1 an SBR?
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I've never understood why so many people overthink engraving, particularly on an AR.
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Gets expensive and inconvenient. View Quote Yup. I've got 14 sub-16" AR uppers. $$$$$$ In addition to the cost of engraving all fourteen, many are old, collectible Colt variants where any additional engraving would really hurt their value. I still enjoy shooting them occasionally on my three AR SBRs and Colt M16A1, though. |
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If your local engraver is being annoying, you need a new engraver. THSF for example. As BW said, a removable trigger guard doesn't meet the engraving requirements. Otherwise everyone would engrave there, of course. View Quote I have to give a shout out to THSF. They are above and beyond in the service dept. Not suggesting anyone do it like I did but I paid for overnight shipping to THSF and provided an overnight label for the return. I shipped 4 receivers on a Wednesday, got an email on Thursday before noon that they were received, done and packed back up for return. Got them that Friday morning. That's 48 hours from MO to NC, engraved, and back to MO. All 4 were engraved in the trigger area, 3 AR lowers and 1 MPX lower. Point is OP, just send it to THSF and get it done correctly and quickly with no hassle. |
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sooo, as a second option, how tough do you suppose it would be to just get a stamp set and do
it myself. been about 13 years but I used to be pretty good with stamps. |
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sooo, as a second option, how tough do you suppose it would be to just get a stamp set and do it myself. been about 13 years but I used to be pretty good with stamps. View Quote It would cost a lot more than sending to tarheel or another similar vendor. Unless you're doing enough that $30 + shipping is more than the stamp creation. |
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It would cost a lot more than sending to tarheel or another similar vendor. Unless you're doing enough that $30 + shipping is more than the stamp creation. View Quote How does the tarheal thing work for shipping. Just sent out the lower any carrier to them? Do you have to go through an FFl? |
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Then why is the bbl a valid option for the engraving? It's just as removable as the trigger guard. Even more so sine you don't need tools to remove the upper. View Quote You can still shoot a firearm without a trigger guard...but it's kind of hard to shoot one without the barrel. |
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Tough to argue with the View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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...because the You can still shoot a firearm without a trigger guard...but it's kind of hard to shoot one without the barrel. Tough to argue with the CFR = Code of Federal Regulations 27 CFR 479.102 How must firearms be identified? (a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows: (1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and (2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes: (i) The model, if such designation has been made; (ii) The caliber or gauge; (iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker; (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and (v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134. |
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Not the argument he made. But yes, you can remove the registered bbl and shoot it with another one installed. View Quote But you can't shoot it without a barrel. You can shoot it without a trigger guard, just like you can shoot one without a handguard. I don't know what you're arguing. The regulation has been posted several times. Acceptable locations are the frame, receiver, and barrel. The ATF added "pistol slide" to the list in 2013. FWIW...the current Form 1 includes this in Instruction (2)(j): (7) Markings: The maker is required to mark the firearm with his or her name, city and state. All markings are to be in compliance with 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102. and that's the regulation I posted above So, follow the regulation, or don't. It's up to you. Just know that Instruction 9 on the form says: 9. Penalties. Any person who violates or fails to comply with any of the requirements of the NFA shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $10,000 or be imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both. Any firearm involved in a violation of the NFA shall be subject to seizure and forfeiture. It is unlawful for any person to make or cause the making of a false entry on any application or record required by the NFA knowing such entry to be false. (and not that I'd expect it to happen, but the penalty can actually be increased to $250,000) |
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But you can't shoot it without a barrel. You can shoot it without a trigger guard, just like you can shoot one without a handguard. I don't know what you're arguing. The regulation has been posted several times. Acceptable locations are the frame, receiver, and barrel. The ATF added "pistol slide" to the list in 2013. FWIW...the current Form 1 includes this in Instruction (2)(j): (7) Markings: The maker is required to mark the firearm with his or her name, city and state. All markings are to be in compliance with 27 CFR 478.92 and 479.102. and that's the regulation I posted above So, follow the regulation, or don't. It's up to you. Just know that Instruction 9 on the form says: 9. Penalties. Any person who violates or fails to comply with any of the requirements of the NFA shall, upon conviction, be fined not more than $10,000 or be imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both. Any firearm involved in a violation of the NFA shall be subject to seizure and forfeiture. It is unlawful for any person to make or cause the making of a false entry on any application or record required by the NFA knowing such entry to be false. (and not that I'd expect it to happen, but the penalty can actually be increased to $250,000) View Quote I'm not sure what you are arguing. yes, I see the regulation. but to try to justify it that its because you cant shoot it without an NFA bbl is just silly. the regulation allows for it to be put on a part of the rifle that is removable from the serialized lower. "The bbl isnt serialized, the receiver is. The receiver is the firearm." and yet the bbl is qualifies for the engraving. its a stupid regulation with no real reason to it. |
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I'm not sure what you are arguing. yes, I see the regulation. but to try to justify it that its because you cant shoot it without an NFA bbl is just silly. the regulation allows for it to be put on a part of the rifle that is removable from the serialized lower. "The bbl isnt serialized, the receiver is. The receiver is the firearm." and yet the bbl is qualifies for the engraving. its a stupid regulation with no real reason to it. View Quote Whoa...hold up. If we're going to have to discuss which regulations are stupid (or illogical), then we're in for a long thread. As far as I'm concerned they're all stupid, not to mention unconstitutional. That being said, this one isn't that stupid. The reason is without a barrel, you can't have a short barreled rifle. Remove the barrel, and you know longer have an NFA firearm. Being serialized has nothing to do with it. Heck, go look at most of your shotguns...and you'll find gauge, city & state, and other info on the barrel instead of on the receiver. Remove the trigger guard, and you still have a (functional) short barreled rifle, which falls under the purview of the NFA. Yes, you can remove the barrel and the marking are no longer on the firearm, but that's fine. If you put a different barrel on it that's at least 16" (and results in an OAL of at least 26"), you still don't have an NFA firearm...even if the registered lower is attached. But, if you do put a different short barrel on it, you're back to having an SBR...and that firearm must be properly marked. So, those that don't engrave the lower must engrave every short upper they plan to use. |
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I never understand why people make this so complicated. I am the manufacturer of my sbr so I just use the serial number from the manufacturer. It's already engraved from the factory; serial number and caliber.
From the BATFE NFA Handbook – Chapter 6: All NFA firearms must be identified by a serial number and other specified markings. If an existing firearm is being used in the making of the NFA weapon, and that firearm is serialized, the existing serial number should be used (unless it duplicates a serial number already used by the maker on Form 1) and entered in Block 4(g). If the weapon is of new manufacture, the applicant must assign a unique serial number and enter it in Block 4(g). For example, a unique serial number could be composed of at least 4 digits preceded by the initials of the maker. NOTE: alpha characters, e.g., a name, will not be accepted as a serial number. If a name is to be used, there must be at least one numeric character in addition to the alpha characters. The serial number must be engraved or stamped on the receiver of the firearm and the caliber, model, and identification of the maker must be engraved on the barrel or frame or receiver of the weapon. The marking and identification requirements for a maker are the same as for a manufacturer. Refer to section 7.4 for a detailed discussion of the requirements. |
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I never understand why people make this so complicated. I am the manufacturer of my sbr so I just use the serial number from the manufacturer. It's already engraved from the factory; serial number and caliber. From the BATFE NFA Handbook – Chapter 6: All NFA firearms must be identified by a serial number and other specified markings. If an existing firearm is being used in the making of the NFA weapon, and that firearm is serialized, the existing serial number should be used (unless it duplicates a serial number already used by the maker on Form 1) and entered in Block 4(g). If the weapon is of new manufacture, the applicant must assign a unique serial number and enter it in Block 4(g). For example, a unique serial number could be composed of at least 4 digits preceded by the initials of the maker. NOTE: alpha characters, e.g., a name, will not be accepted as a serial number. If a name is to be used, there must be at least one numeric character in addition to the alpha characters. The serial number must be engraved or stamped on the receiver of the firearm and the caliber, model, and identification of the maker must be engraved on the barrel or frame or receiver of the weapon. The marking and identification requirements for a maker are the same as for a manufacturer. Refer to section 7.4 for a detailed discussion of the requirements. View Quote |
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