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Im getting ready to mail out my form 4 tomorrow. I just have a couple of things i need clarified. 1) on the fingerprints card, "ORI" is blank. Where do i get this information? 2) I'm confused as to how many photos to submit to the ATF. I currently have one attached to the 5320.23. I'm submitting as a Trust. You need this info on the FD-258LE: 
The most recent ones I have actually say ATF-NATL TRA CTR (with the same city, state), but the ORI is the most important part. Mine look just like the pic a couple posts above your question...which is also on the first page. Sometimes it helps to actually read the How-To portion of the thread. 
The F4 doesn't need a photo. You'll only need one on the ATF Copy of the 5320.23 (RPQ). The CLEO Copy doesn't require a photo. |
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Did this by request on another site, figured I'd post it here as well. Current form is available here. 9/23/20: the form changed last year and I completely forgot to update this. They’re very minor changes, so I’m just going to make notes down below. I might get screen shots later, but for now the numbering won’t match. They added boxes in Q1 to identify type of registrant, and then added a new item (#5) to allow you to provide a different mailing address for the forms to be returned to.  1. Provide registered name (from F1/F4) and address and check applicable box for type of owner 1a. Provide phone number 1b. Provide email address 2. Mark "yes" if coming back, or "No" if it's a move 3. Provide dates. You can enter up to a year, so 1/1-12/31, or 9/21-9/20, etc. I send mine in each fall for the entire next year.  4. Provide the following: •Manufacturer: I've always put the original manufacturer for a Form 1 SBR, not my trust name as Maker. But, I know people that put their name (or trust/corp/LLC name) and get approved. •Type of Firearm: Use the appropriate category from the six. I use the abbreviation, like SBR/SBS, but you can also spell them out. •Serviceable: most likely "yes", assuming the firearm is in working condition •Caliber or Gauge: I put the caliber/gauge that matches current config, even if it doesn't match the F1/F4. I've heard some reports of people getting push back if it doesn't match, but I've never had a problem. •Model: same info from F1/F4 •Barrel Length: again, I provide the current config, even if it doesn't match the F1/F4 •Overall Length: same answer as barrel length •Serial Number: should match F1/F4 5. You can now provide a different address for them to use to return your forms if needed  Here's a completed form I just got back. It's one of the custom ones I did that has 11 firearms instead of the 3 the actual form has. Note that I did put my AOW, although it's not required. I have never submitted one for a Silencer.  You'll need two copies for each state. You can mail them to the address in the Instructions: Director, BATFE 244 Needy Road Martinsburg, WV 25405 Attention: NFA Branch The form can also be submitted via facsimile to the NFA Branch at (304) 616-4501 or may be scanned and emailed to [email protected]. In addition to mailing them, I've also faxed them and emailed them, but snail mail works more consistently. The faxes and emails sometimes get lost. Regardless of submission method, it will be folded and mailed back to the name & address in Item 1. |
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RE: Box 4b on the 5320.23 (RPQ)
If I am applying to MAKE an SBR out of an imported pistol (an AK variant, imported by CAI) do I need to list my trust in 4b? Or just the original manufacturer, and CAI as the importer? It is my thinking that if I were to make an SBR, and then sell it to someone else, the next owner would list MY trust's maker info in 4b on an RPQ form. Just wanted to ask before I send it off. |
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RE: Box 4b on the 5320.23 (RPQ) If I am applying to MAKE an SBR out of an imported pistol (an AK variant, imported by CAI) do I need to list my trust in 4b? Or just the original manufacturer, and CAI as the importer? It is my thinking that if I were to make an SBR, and then sell it to someone else, the next owner would list MY trust's maker info in 4b on an RPQ form. Just wanted to ask before I send it off. It's exactly as the write-up says, which is what's in the Instructions of the RPQ: 4. b. Name of maker, manufacturer and/or importer: as identified in item 4a of Form 1, 4, or 5 The next person would have your trust in that field, as that's what would be on the F1/F4/F5. |
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It's exactly as the write-up says, which is what's in the Instructions of the RPQ: 4. b. Name of maker, manufacturer and/or importer: as identified in item 4a of Form 1, 4, or 5 The next person would have your trust in that field, as that's what would be on the F1/F4/F5. Quoted:
Quoted:
RE: Box 4b on the 5320.23 (RPQ) If I am applying to MAKE an SBR out of an imported pistol (an AK variant, imported by CAI) do I need to list my trust in 4b? Or just the original manufacturer, and CAI as the importer? It is my thinking that if I were to make an SBR, and then sell it to someone else, the next owner would list MY trust's maker info in 4b on an RPQ form. Just wanted to ask before I send it off. It's exactly as the write-up says, which is what's in the Instructions of the RPQ: 4. b. Name of maker, manufacturer and/or importer: as identified in item 4a of Form 1, 4, or 5 The next person would have your trust in that field, as that's what would be on the F1/F4/F5. Thanks. Havent looked at the RPQ yet. Stupid 41F... |
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Something else I worked on because of a request elsewhere. Might as well post it in case it helps anybody.
Notes: 1. The highlighted area on page 2 is skipped if you're applying as an entity. That info is handled on the 5320.23 (RPQ), which I also included below. 2. The CLEO notified on the F1 is one having jurisdiction over the address in box 3b, and is the only one that gets a copy of the F1. 3. The CLEO notified on the RPQ (not required for individual applications) is one having jurisdiction over the address in box 3a The Form 1: 
And then the RPQ: 
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I need some clarification on the newest Form 1 (May 2016 revision).
Box 4J- Are we leaving this blank? I'm building an SBR. Box 8 Name and Title of Authorized Official- Since I'm filling it out as an individual this time, do I need to put a title? For example John Doe or John Doe, Individual? |
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Quoted: I need some clarification on the newest Form 1 (May 2016 revision). Box 4J- Are we leaving this blank? I'm building an SBR. Yes Box 8 Name and Title of Authorized Official- Since I'm filling it out as an individual this time, do I need to put a title? For example John Doe or John Doe, Individual? Just your name |
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About rolling your own prints. Not anymore.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/09/27/breaking-batfe-changes-nfa-fingerprint-requirement-must-now-completed-local-law-enforcement-authority/ Mod edit: Article has been retracted. Info here. |
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About rolling your own prints. Not anymore. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/09/27/breaking-batfe-changes-nfa-fingerprint-requirement-must-now-completed-local-law-enforcement-authority/ The link to atf.gov in that article is for explosives, which has a different ORI. Those rules are slightly different anyway. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, if there's actually a change. The regulation itself simply says "properly equipped", and doesn't even mention other businesses or LE agencies. In order to keep this thread fairly clean, let's keep all discussion around this in this thread. |
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Just wanted to say "Thank You" to Big Waylon, for taking his time to put this thread together, with photos and links to posts.
I mailed off my first Form 1 with photo and prints today, along with the RPQ and having this thread as a reference has been a big help! I am confident my application was filled correctly, and now I just get to wait! Thanks for doing this, I am sure others as well as myself appreciate all your hard work that you have put into this resource. 
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FYI - We just received clarification from the ATF that for NFA purposes fingerprint cards do not expire. Hopefully everybody up there gets that memo. The regs have never mentioned an expiration (unlike photos and CLEO sig), and I've never had to send prints...but I have seen people report that old cards were returned. |
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I was told the passport photos had to be signed by the person pictured and by the person doing the prints on the back of the photo. I'm doing trust form 4's. Is this not true? Nobody has to sign the photos. They're often glued or taped down anyway, so you won't see the back once attached. You'll sign the FP card. |
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Something else I worked on because of a request elsewhere. Might as well post it in case it helps anybody. Notes: 1. The highlighted area on page 2 is skipped if you're applying as an entity. That info is handled on the 5320.23 (RPQ), which I also included below. 2. The CLEO notified on the F1 is one having jurisdiction over the address in box 3b, and is the only one that gets a copy of the F1. 3. The CLEO notified on the RPQ (not required for individual applications) is one having jurisdiction over the address in box 3a The Form 1: http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/41F%20Forms/Example%20F1%201_zpsxvwrf3ly.jpg http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/41F%20Forms/Example%20F1%202_zpsgdznvqik.jpg http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/41F%20Forms/Example%20F1%203_zpsd8bkgxka.jpg And then the RPQ: http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/41F%20Forms/Example%20RPQ%201_zps00zqfbtg.jpg http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/thegreghorton/41F%20Forms/Example%20RPQ%202_zpshrqh4ktq.jpg On the page 2 of the Form 1 why are you signing? doesn't that also fall under section for makers questions? Reason being wouldn't the RP's just sign for basically the same thing on the RPQ, making the first signature superfluous? |
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On the page 2 of the Form 1 why are you signing? doesn't that also fall under section for makers questions? Reason being wouldn't the RP's just sign for basically the same thing on the RPQ, making the first signature superfluous? Because on the F1, Instruction 2.d. Completion of Form includes: (3) If the applicant is other than an individual, e.g., a trust or legal entity such as a corporation, the applicant shall not complete items 11, 12, 13, and 14. All other items must be completed including the signing of the Certification statement. ...which is admittedly different from how we used to do forms. ***this is also covered in the F1 for entity write-up on the first page of this topic |
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Quoted: Submitted a Form 1 as an individual. How many photos are required for each submission? A photo on each copy and one on the CLEO totaling 3? Or 1 photo on the first copy and 1 to the CLEO? |
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Thanks for the guide.
A clarification on the SC State-level CLEO address... the address listed is good for FedEx/UPS. Their website says the mailing address is PO Box 1993. Realized this after I completed everything and affixed photo. Just gonna spend the $10 for FedEx instead of .47 for USPS. Totally worth it instead of fighting with my printer to get this stuff double-sided! Figured I would be hunted down if I knowingly mailed it to a different address than what I put on the Form 1. |
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Thanks for the guide. A clarification on the SC State-level CLEO address... the address listed is good for FedEx/UPS. Their website says the mailing address is PO Box 1993. Realized this after I completed everything and affixed photo. Just gonna spend the $10 for FedEx instead of .47 for USPS. Totally worth it instead of fighting with my printer to get this stuff double-sided! Figured I would be hunted down if I knowingly mailed it to a different address than what I put on the Form 1. Surely they also get mail using that address. FedEx/UPS may not deliver to PO Boxes, so they have to use the street address. I'll add the mailing address to the list just in case. |
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Quick Tip
For those wanting 2" Passport size photos. The cheapest way I've been able to do this is by downloading a free app named 'Passport Photo Booth' on Android or iOS. Have someone take the photo and then you can upload it to your local pharmacies website to print. This is much cheaper than having CVS take your picture for $25. |
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***CLEO inför for TN (Nashville) is wrong. I got a call from the department and she said that this was the wrong place to send the copy to. She said she has gotten 3-4 forms so far and had to send them back. I will get the correct info on here ASAP Is it actually wrong? Or do they think you can't send a form to a state level CLEO (which the forms clearly say is OK). We've had multiple reports of forms being sent back (or forwarded to local CLEO). Here is one recent example that's still on Page 1 as I type. If they send them back, trash them...as you did your job in notifying. I can tell you I just looked at the site, and that's the name and address on the screen. |
| I called the ATF today. Personally I don't think she knows...but I told her that I saw my state HP on a list and that the head of the State Highway patrol was listed as ok for CLEO notification. She said that sounded fine and OK. So I am doing nothing. I did what I was told and she said it was OK. |
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***CLEO inför for TN (Nashville) is wrong. I got a call from the department and she said that this was the wrong place to send the copy to. She said she has gotten 3-4 forms so far and had to send them back. I will get the correct info on here ASAP Went through similar myself, only, WA State Patrol sent it to local sherriff, and they said I needed to re-submit- HA! Yeah, right.... State-level LEO is listed on the form in the instruction section, also says on CLEO copy "No action is required" So why do they panic? They're required to DO NOTHING!!! 
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Quick Tip For those wanting 2" Passport size photos. The cheapest way I've been able to do this is by downloading a free app named 'Passport Photo Booth' on Android or iOS. Have someone take the photo and then you can upload it to your local pharmacies website to print. This is much cheaper than having CVS take your picture for $25. That's the one I have on my iPhone. I've messed around with it, but never ordered the prints. Here is a link to the App Store for iDevice download. I'd assume the same app is available for android devices. Extremely easy to use. It has a silhouette for your head, a chin line, and a shaded bar to make sure your eyes are in correct position. When you save it to your phone, it puts two 2"x2" copies in one image. Should be simple enough to send it to your local store to print, or print it yourself. I was able to use the front camera and get decent results, so no need to even have somebody else take the pic. |
Wow. As someone who put in a ton of form 1's and form 4's on a trust pre-41F reading this new process has my head spinning. When it says all responsible parties must have background checks, fingerprints, pictures, etc. does this only apply to the Trustees or do I have to get my underaged children who are beneficiaries of the Trust fingerprinted and background checked too? 
I hope Trump gets rid of this shit all together. What a bunch of communist bullshit. Eta: Bitching aside thank you Bigwaylon for putting all this info together. I've said it before, you are a great asset to this website! |
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Quoted: Wow. As someone who put in a ton of form 1's and form 4's on a trust pre-41F reading this new process has my head spinning. When it says all responsible parties must have background checks, fingerprints, pictures, etc. does this only apply to the Trustees or do I have to get my underaged children who are beneficiaries of the Trust fingerprinted and background checked too? I hope Trump gets rid of this shit all together. What a bunch of communist bullshit. Eta: Bitching aside thank you Bigwaylon for putting all this info together. I've said it before, you are a great asset to this website! |
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Got a question regarding turning my Scorpion EVO 3 S1 into and SBR.
When filling out the barrel and overall length, I know that the barrel is 7.72 inches. That is what I put for the barrel length. The current overall length is 16 inches. On the form, do I need to put 16 inches for overall length since it is currently that length, or what the length will be with the stock kit installed? |
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Got a question regarding turning my Scorpion EVO 3 S1 into and SBR. When filling out the barrel and overall length, I know that the barrel is 7.72 inches. That is what I put for the barrel length. The current overall length is 16 inches. On the form, do I need to put 16 inches for overall length since it is currently that length, or what the length will be with the stock kit installed? In it's current config, it's not an SBR...so that length doesn't matter. You need to put the OAL with stock installed and fully extended/folded out. |
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In it's current config, it's not an SBR...so that length doesn't matter. You need to put the OAL with stock installed and fully extended/folded out. Quoted:
Quoted:
Got a question regarding turning my Scorpion EVO 3 S1 into and SBR. When filling out the barrel and overall length, I know that the barrel is 7.72 inches. That is what I put for the barrel length. The current overall length is 16 inches. On the form, do I need to put 16 inches for overall length since it is currently that length, or what the length will be with the stock kit installed? In it's current config, it's not an SBR...so that length doesn't matter. You need to put the OAL with stock installed and fully extended/folded out. Does this need to be exact? I haven't got the stock kit yet and not sure what the length will be when it is installed. I guess I can just buy the stock and lay them next to each other and measure? Might be a 1/4 inch off or something I guess. This will be my first time doing a SBR. I just don;t want to screw up the paper work. |
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Does this need to be exact? I haven't got the stock kit yet and not sure what the length will be when it is installed. I guess I can just buy the stock and lay them next to each other and measure? Might be a 1/4 inch off or something I guess. This will be my first time doing a SBR. I just don;t want to screw up the paper work. It just needs to be reasonable. The ATF doesn't know which stock you're using, so they're not going to deny/approve it because it is or isn't a certain length. Rounded to the nearest inch or half inch is fine. There are enough people that have built these now that you should be able to find the measurement in the SBR forum of online elsewhere. |
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In box 4a of the form 1, do you put the manufacturer of the lower you purchased or what you are going to engrave on it(i.e. your name, city, state)?
I'm using a Palmetto State lower and filing as individual. Thank you. This thread has been very helpful. eta: Do you have to use your full name(first, middle, last) in both 3b and 4h? |
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4a is the mfr name and location as engraved on the firearm.
There's no telling what your examiner will want in 3b. In the past people have used any of the following (and probably even more options)... Assuming your name is Michael Jeffrey Jordan: Michael Jeffrey Jordan Michael J Jordan Michael Jordan Mike Jordan M J Jordan M Jordan |
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4a is the mfr name and location as engraved on the firearm. There's no telling what your examiner will want in 3b. In the past people have used any of the following (and probably even more options)... Assuming your name is Michael Jeffrey Jordan: Michael Jeffrey Jordan Michael J Jordan Michael Jordan Mike Jordan M J Jordan M Jordan Sorry for being stupid but I'll ask just for clarification. So in my case, 4a would be "Palmetto State Armory, Columbia, SC"? And does 4h have to be the same as 3b? (as in used full name in 3b but just first and last name in 4h) Thank you. |
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Sorry for being stupid but I'll ask just for clarification. So in my case, 4a would be "Palmetto State Armory, Columbia, SC"? And does 4h have to be the same as 3b? (as in used full name in 3b but just first and last name in 4h) Thank you. 4a is whatever is engraved on the lower for original manufacturer. I didn't go dig mine out, but what you typed sounds about right. 4h and 3b should match, as you have to engrave the maker's name. |
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I didn't see it mentioned in this thread. I ordered a Form 1 application packet from the ATF website. The packet has a form1 application, finger print cards and a form called Certification of Compliance form # 5330.20. The form 5330.20 looks to be for certifying citizenship.
Is this form supposed to be filled out and mailed in with your form 1 (assuming you are a US citizen) or is it only for non US citizens? At the top of the form it states: "You Must complete this certification or ATF will not be able to act upon your application and the application will be returned to you." Thanks |
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It's not required. Hasn't been since they redid the forms a couple years ago and incorporated those questions in the F1/F4 (same time they added the option to pay by CC). See questions 13 & 14 on the Form 1 you received.
Not sure why they're including it in the package. |
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Another stupid question. I printed out a Form 1 with photo attached, but have not mailed yet. On the form I listed the caliber as "5.56", but the barrel I just decided to order is 223 Wylde and is stamped on the barrel.
Should I redo the form 1 to say "223" or "223 Wylde" or is "5.56" acceptable as is? Thank you |
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Another stupid question. I printed out a Form 1 with photo attached, but have not mailed yet. On the form I listed the caliber as "5.56", but the barrel I just decided to order is 223 Wylde and is stamped on the barrel. Should I redo the form 1 to say "223" or "223 Wylde" or is "5.56" acceptable as is? Thank you I'd have to change it to 223 if it was mine, just because it would bug me. I'd bet a majority of people would just leave it as is. |
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as a responsible person, where do i send CLEO form ? who do i shall Notify ? the CLEO where the LLC is registered / address location ? or where my home address is ? different state at this point ? thanks It's clearly spelled out in the step-by-step, as well as in the Instructions on the form. You might want to read it again. The F1/F4 & an RPQ goes to any CLEO having jurisdiction over the address you put for Maker or Transferee. The RPQ for the other RPs goes to any CLEO having jurisdiction over the address provided. |
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