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Posted: 9/23/2016 7:01:41 PM EDT
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Posted: 9/23/2016 8:16:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Bought a numbers matching non import marked last ditch arisaka type 99 for $200 out the door. Bluing and wood are really nice. I love the history especially being a Marine. I think it was a fair price? I see them on gunbroker but prices are all over the place. Thoughts on my purchase? Matching? Great deal! Does it have the mum? Matching with a ground mum, it's $300 and up... Mummed and matching it's probably in the $400 plus range... Like 98k's some guys specialize in the late war "last ditch" guns... Also would be dependent on maker and series... But $200 is a very good price... ETA...what part of NY? I can hook you up with a guy you can get Jap parts, bayonets, flags...the 99's look awesome with a bayonet with a small flag attached... |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 10:44:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Wait I'm confused.
Last ditch type 99 with good wood and blueing? |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 11:13:40 AM EDT
[#3]
I thought last ditch 99's were parked but I could be wrong.
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Posted: 9/24/2016 11:58:53 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought last ditch 99's were parked but I could be wrong. The ones I've seen usually had no finish or parkerizing. The stocks weren't tongue and grooved at the junction and they had a very rough finish. Most type 99s were built in the 40-42 period when Japan wasbasicly unopposed and winning in the pacific and are very well built guns. Calling them last ditch guns is way off the mark. To confuse things more the drill rifles are sometimes called last ditch rifles even though they weren't designed to be fired anymore than a M16 rubber duck was. Also OP needs to post up some pics. This thread deserves pics. |
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Posted: 9/24/2016 9:09:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ones I've seen usually had no finish or parkerizing. The stocks weren't tongue and grooved at the junction and they had a very rough finish. Most type 99s were built in the 40-42 period when Japan wasbasicly unopposed and winning in the pacific and are very well built guns. Calling them last ditch guns is way off the mark. To confuse things more the drill rifles are sometimes called last ditch rifles even though they weren't designed to be fired anymore than a M16 rubber duck was. Also OP needs to post up some pics. This thread deserves pics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I thought last ditch 99's were parked but I could be wrong. The ones I've seen usually had no finish or parkerizing. The stocks weren't tongue and grooved at the junction and they had a very rough finish. Most type 99s were built in the 40-42 period when Japan wasbasicly unopposed and winning in the pacific and are very well built guns. Calling them last ditch guns is way off the mark. To confuse things more the drill rifles are sometimes called last ditch rifles even though they weren't designed to be fired anymore than a M16 rubber duck was. Also OP needs to post up some pics. This thread deserves pics. I will post pics soon- within the next day or two. To clarify condition, it looks blued and bluing looks pretty good. The bolt is correct for a "last ditch" and the stock is rough- you can see either file marks or some other type of tool marks and is crude with a wood butt plate but overall looks pretty good. It certainly looks a 1000x better than let's say a Chinese M53 stock, but to be fair my dogs favorite chew toy looks better than one too. I'll def post pics. The metal and stock defenately doesn't look refinished although I'm no expert but I've been collecting for some time. I guess the pics will tell all |
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Posted: 9/26/2016 9:31:35 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait I'm confused. Last ditch type 99 with good wood and blueing? I've had several over the years but the example I kept (matching Nagoya series 11) is everything you would expect from a late war Type 99. 
It is gloriously rough as a cob. I swear the stock looks like it was carved out with a dull draw knife, wood rasp, and a whittling knife and may very well have been! It still has the original Urushi finish. LOL....The barrel exterior could be used as a rat-tail file what with the deep tooling marks. 
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Posted: 9/27/2016 4:21:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Just added pics in original post. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks
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Posted: 9/27/2016 4:35:06 PM EDT
[#8]
http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/japanese_markings.html
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just added pics in original post. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks It's a late war gun. Probably very late. Does it have any date codes on it? They'll be in Japanese. This page might help with dating it and give you the arsenal code. If it's marked. It also tells how to decode the serial number http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/japanese_markings.html |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 4:39:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks!
Well, it has the crude last ditch peep sight; and the wood butt plate (to save steel). The mum is scrubbed thoroughly. The bolt handle is not as "last ditchy" as some I've seen - but it's also not like the earlier pre - war guns either. I'll let the experts take over Now. 
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Posted: 9/27/2016 4:51:26 PM EDT
[#10]
I've handled last-ditch German rifles that make the Arisaka pictured above look great.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 5:27:02 PM EDT
[#11]
That's a beauty, and a steal at that price.
I like the "last ditch's", need to pick another up some time, and would have snagged it for sure.... If you look near the s/n on the left side of receiver, you will see the maker mark, and the series mark...get a good pic, and I can tell you what it is...I just happen to have my Type 99 book with me on my road trip, so I am just sitting in the hotel.... That's a keeper, the only thing that would make it even better would be the mum... That's the original Urushi finish on the stock, which is great. Word of warning, not that you ever would, but if you sand, or strip that finish, it can give you contact dermatitis...it is basically a varnish made from sumac...as in poison sumac, like poison ivy... ETA Surprising it still has a plum shaped bolt handle, and not the cylindrical...but you can find a range of features on these....again, like I said, show me the maker and series mark, and I will look up the particulars... |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 5:33:47 PM EDT
[#12]
Boy, talk about a hand-carved stock!
Poison ivy varnish, really? |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 5:37:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boy, talk about a hand-carved stock! Poison ivy varnish, really? Yep.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urushiol No finish sanding on the stock, straight from the pantograph stock making machine....Kriegsmodell 98's will also exhibit the "corn cob" stock look like that too, often...although typically not quite as bad as you see with the Japanese stocks! |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 5:52:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've handled last-ditch German rifles that make the Arisaka pictured above look great. I thought it looked pretty good for a last ditch and for $200 otd I jumped on it. I think the condition makes up for not having the mum and I needed it to fill a spot in my collection. I'll get a pic of the serial# and markings soon |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 7:01:34 PM EDT
[#16]
OK, so it was made by Tokyo Juki Kogyo, The Tokyo Rifle Manufacturing Company....subcontractor for Kokura Arsenal...but seemingly built under Nagoya Supervision...According to the Type 99 guide, the full history of the 27th Series is somewhat nebulous...this was the last series produced at TJK.
The plant was located in Komac-mura, Tokyo Prefecture 27th Series, which started about mid 1944... Plum shaped bolt handle is proper for this series, al your pictured attributes seem to be correct... Its a great rifle, any Japanese collector I think would be thrilled to have it.... BTW...hard core Japanese collectors would rather have a number matching gun with a ground mum, than a full mum mismatch...Obviously, mummed matching is ideal...but I think most of these late wars are ground or struck... |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 7:12:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK, so it was made by Tokyo Juki Kogyo, The Tokyo Rifle Manufacturing Company....subcontractor for Kokura Arsenal...but seemingly built under Nagoya Supervision...According to the Type 99 guide, the full history of the 27th Series is somewhat nebulous...this was the last series produced at TJK. The plant was located in Komac-mura, Tokyo Prefecture 27th Series, which started about mid 1944... Plum shaped bolt handle is proper for this series, al your pictured attributes seem to be correct... Its a great rifle, any Japanese collector I think would be thrilled to have it.... BTW...hard core Japanese collectors would rather have a number matching gun with a ground mum, than a full mum mismatch...Obviously, mummed matching is ideal...but I think most of these late wars are ground or struck... Awesome thanks for all of the info. I think this rifle comes from a guys collection that he sells off a few guns every couple of years. If I remember correctly the type 99 I bought a few years back that is beautiful with mum and bayonet had a tag on it similar to the one that was on this last ditch. I know it was the sellers tag and not the shops because it's a little aluminum tab that has some info scratched into it. I'd love to see this guys collection or what's left of it. Just for my records- I'm not selling this rifle, what value would you put on this? I tag my rifles so if something happens to me someone doesn't rip my wife off when she sells them off. Thanks |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 7:17:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Now I need to find a type 38 and 44. I know I can prob buy them off gunbroker but a long drawn out hunt to find the one I really like although slow is very rewarding, i guess that's why we do this
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Posted: 9/27/2016 7:19:52 PM EDT
[#19]
This is simply my opinion...but to just a general guy, I think that rifle is easily $300 - $350...
But to a hard core Jap collector, I would say it could fetch up to $450...so $400 is a good middle of the road. Like I said, judging from the pics, that is a primo rifle, all original, and seemingly un-dinked with, which makes it very desirable to a knowledgeable collector... YMMV... ETA Forgot to add...take a look at the action screws, in the trigger guard. They should be staked....if they are, and the stakes undisturbed...DO NOT disassemble. Japanese collectors love unmessed with staked screws.....actually adds to the value too... |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 7:23:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now I need to find a type 38 and 44. I know I can prob buy them off gunbroker but a long drawn out hunt to find the one I really like although slow is very rewarding, i guess that's why we do this And a Type 38 carbine, and a Type 99 Long Rifle, and a Type 2 Paratrooper....it never ends.... |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 7:24:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought it looked pretty good for a last ditch and for $200 otd I jumped on it. I think the condition makes up for not having the mum and I needed it to fill a spot in my collection. I'll get a pic of the serial# and markings soon Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've handled last-ditch German rifles that make the Arisaka pictured above look great. I thought it looked pretty good for a last ditch and for $200 otd I jumped on it. I think the condition makes up for not having the mum and I needed it to fill a spot in my collection. I'll get a pic of the serial# and markings soon Your rifle is fine for what it is. I'm no expert on these things, but others seem to think you got a good deal, and I defer to their opinions. Now, If I could lay the last ditch German rifle down alongside your last ditch rifle, I think you'd agree that the German rifle was a very distant second in the looks department, not to mention the mechanical/material construction. I don't know if I would shoot your rifle, even given a good gunsmith inspection--but I might. I don't think that doing so would enhance its' value, though. As for the German rifle, it is so crude as to defy description, and there is NFW I would shoot that thing. No offense intended at all, and I apologize if my previous remarks were so poorly worded that offense could be inferred. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 7:30:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is simply my opinion...but to just a general guy, I think that rifle is easily $300 - $350... But to a hard core Jap collector, I would say it could fetch up to $450...so $400 is a good middle of the road. Like I said, judging from the pics, that is a primo rifle, all original, and seemingly un-dinked with, which makes it very desirable to a knowledgeable collector... YMMV... ETA Forgot to add...take a look at the action screws, in the trigger guard. They should be staked....if they are, and the stakes undisturbed...DO NOT disassemble. Japanese collectors love unmessed with staked screws.....actually adds to the value too... Great, thanks again |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 7:30:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your rifle is fine for what it is. I'm no expert on these things, but others seem to think you got a good deal, and I defer to their opinions. Now, If I could lay the last ditch German rifle down alongside your last ditch rifle, I think you'd agree that the German rifle was a very distant second in the looks department, not to mention the mechanical/material construction. I don't know if I would shoot your rifle, even given a good gunsmith inspection--but I might. I don't think that doing so would enhance its' value, though. As for the German rifle, it is so crude as to defy description, and there is NFW I would shoot that thing. No offense intended at all, and I apologize if my previous remarks were so poorly worded that offense could be inferred. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've handled last-ditch German rifles that make the Arisaka pictured above look great. I thought it looked pretty good for a last ditch and for $200 otd I jumped on it. I think the condition makes up for not having the mum and I needed it to fill a spot in my collection. I'll get a pic of the serial# and markings soon Your rifle is fine for what it is. I'm no expert on these things, but others seem to think you got a good deal, and I defer to their opinions. Now, If I could lay the last ditch German rifle down alongside your last ditch rifle, I think you'd agree that the German rifle was a very distant second in the looks department, not to mention the mechanical/material construction. I don't know if I would shoot your rifle, even given a good gunsmith inspection--but I might. I don't think that doing so would enhance its' value, though. As for the German rifle, it is so crude as to defy description, and there is NFW I would shoot that thing. No offense intended at all, and I apologize if my previous remarks were so poorly worded that offense could be inferred. Not at all |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 7:35:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your rifle is fine for what it is. I'm no expert on these things, but others seem to think you got a good deal, and I defer to their opinions. Now, If I could lay the last ditch German rifle down alongside your last ditch rifle, I think you'd agree that the German rifle was a very distant second in the looks department, not to mention the mechanical/material construction. I don't know if I would shoot your rifle, even given a good gunsmith inspection--but I might. I don't think that doing so would enhance its' value, though. As for the German rifle, it is so crude as to defy description, and there is NFW I would shoot that thing. No offense intended at all, and I apologize if my previous remarks were so poorly worded that offense could be inferred. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've handled last-ditch German rifles that make the Arisaka pictured above look great. I thought it looked pretty good for a last ditch and for $200 otd I jumped on it. I think the condition makes up for not having the mum and I needed it to fill a spot in my collection. I'll get a pic of the serial# and markings soon Your rifle is fine for what it is. I'm no expert on these things, but others seem to think you got a good deal, and I defer to their opinions. Now, If I could lay the last ditch German rifle down alongside your last ditch rifle, I think you'd agree that the German rifle was a very distant second in the looks department, not to mention the mechanical/material construction. I don't know if I would shoot your rifle, even given a good gunsmith inspection--but I might. I don't think that doing so would enhance its' value, though. As for the German rifle, it is so crude as to defy description, and there is NFW I would shoot that thing. No offense intended at all, and I apologize if my previous remarks were so poorly worded that offense could be inferred. Even the last ditch rifles are pretty strong. His is well built, just crudely finished. I probably wouldn't be afraid to fire it with standard loads. The serial number is early in the 27th series so figure fall of 44. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 7:40:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your rifle is fine for what it is. I'm no expert on these things, but others seem to think you got a good deal, and I defer to their opinions. Now, If I could lay the last ditch German rifle down alongside your last ditch rifle, I think you'd agree that the German rifle was a very distant second in the looks department, not to mention the mechanical/material construction. I don't know if I would shoot your rifle, even given a good gunsmith inspection--but I might. I don't think that doing so would enhance its' value, though. As for the German rifle, it is so crude as to defy description, and there is NFW I would shoot that thing. No offense intended at all, and I apologize if my previous remarks were so poorly worded that offense could be inferred. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've handled last-ditch German rifles that make the Arisaka pictured above look great. I thought it looked pretty good for a last ditch and for $200 otd I jumped on it. I think the condition makes up for not having the mum and I needed it to fill a spot in my collection. I'll get a pic of the serial# and markings soon Your rifle is fine for what it is. I'm no expert on these things, but others seem to think you got a good deal, and I defer to their opinions. Now, If I could lay the last ditch German rifle down alongside your last ditch rifle, I think you'd agree that the German rifle was a very distant second in the looks department, not to mention the mechanical/material construction. I don't know if I would shoot your rifle, even given a good gunsmith inspection--but I might. I don't think that doing so would enhance its' value, though. As for the German rifle, it is so crude as to defy description, and there is NFW I would shoot that thing. No offense intended at all, and I apologize if my previous remarks were so poorly worded that offense could be inferred. Just curious as to what exactly you are calling "last ditch" German rifles....are we talking Kriegsmodell 98k's, or VG-1's (Volks Gewehr)....because I have multiple Kriegsmodells from various manufatcurers...and while not nearly as nice as earlier war 98k's they are usually nice cosmetically than a last ditch 99...yes they have corn cob chatter stocks, but the chatters are finer...metal work isn't polished out, but still pretty nice... Here is one of mine....a Steyr... http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?123-bnz-45-quot-r-quot-Block-Solid-Walnut Now this actually has a solid walnut stock, which was reclaimed wood that would not pass inspection earlier, mainly walnut "sap" wood.... And here is a very late Mauser Oberndorf.... http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?11823-svw45&p=77236&posted=1#post77236 Now the VG rifles were pretty darned crude. Shooting the 99 would be fine....they are just as strong as earlier prettier 99's....the 99 action is actually one of the strongest actions made in WWII. The problem is, a lot of guys tried to fire the trainers, many of which looked just like a normal 99, but usually just made of cast iron....you try to fire that with live 7.7 ammo, and it will kaboom. But, unless you have a burning desire to shoot it, why would you? That one would be too nice for me to shoot...but a few rounds for giggles wouldn't hurt it. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:18:53 PM EDT
[#26]
The Last-ditch German rifle I handled was a VG type.
Calling it crude is being generous--very generous. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:19:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Last-ditch German rifle I handled was a VG type. Calling it crude is being generous--very generous. OK, that makes sense...the VG's were REALLY crude...but they are worth a ton of money if you come across one! |
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Posted: 9/28/2016 1:31:57 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK, that makes sense...the VG's were REALLY crude...but they are worth a ton of money if you come across one! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Last-ditch German rifle I handled was a VG type. Calling it crude is being generous--very generous. OK, that makes sense...the VG's were REALLY crude...but they are worth a ton of money if you come across one! I'm not familiar with the model you guys are talking about. Is it a k98? How rare are they to come across? |
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Posted: 9/28/2016 7:06:51 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not familiar with the model you guys are talking about. Is it a k98? How rare are they to come across? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Last-ditch German rifle I handled was a VG type. Calling it crude is being generous--very generous. OK, that makes sense...the VG's were REALLY crude...but they are worth a ton of money if you come across one! I'm not familiar with the model you guys are talking about. Is it a k98? How rare are they to come across? See here....this is a Steyr version... http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?373-VK-98-Steyr-V-5 And these two.... http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?297-Vg-1 http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?7004-Vg-1-upclose They are not 98k's, thoug some versions were based on the 98k receiver, they were called Volks Gewehr or Volks Carbines... Very crude and simply made. In fact most people would not know what they were if they saw them, probably figuring they were a bubba special. They are rare, and worth a lot, $5k and up.... |
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Posted: 9/28/2016 7:44:04 PM EDT
[#30]
What is a good book that would give good overall info and pics on all of the different arisaka rifles? Also while I'm asking how about the same for K98's?
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Posted: 9/28/2016 8:06:52 PM EDT
[#31]
For Arisaka's, I have Banzai Special Project #11, The Japanese Type 99 Arisaka Rifle, A Guide for the Collector and Historian, by Doss White and Don Voigt...
And of course Fred Honeycutts Military Rifles of Japan. A good primer for 98k's would be Backbone of the Wehrmacht, by Richard Law, which is old, and has drawbacks, but is probably your best bet for a 1 volume book with lots of info... The bible of 98k's is a 3 volume set by Mike Steves and Bruce Karam, which Volume I...."Karabiner 98k Volume 1: A collectors guide to the development and production of the German K98k service rifle up to 1938", and Volume III..."Kriegsmodell Volume 3: A collectors guide to K98k production in the last month of the war" are out... Volume II will be coming out early next year. Truly an amazing set of books... Plus I do have rifles in all three.... 
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