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Posted: 7/6/2015 9:41:00 PM EDT
Found it at a pawn shop and put it on layaway until I could find out more about it. It's an Underwood with an Underwood barrel, cross bolt safety, dual aperture rear sight and no bayonet lug. Curious on value and rarity since it's not a refurb?
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Posted: 7/7/2015 8:57:32 AM EDT
[#1]
If it's not a refurb, probably $1500-2000 depending on the market. Full disassembly and parts notation is a must. If it's all Underwood, someone made it correct.
Is the stock high wood or low? |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 9:34:34 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it's not a refurb, probably $1500-2000 depending on the market. Full disassembly and parts notation is a must. If it's all Underwood, someone made it correct. Is the stock high wood or low? High |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 9:59:12 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
High Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If it's not a refurb, probably $1500-2000 depending on the market. Full disassembly and parts notation is a must. If it's all Underwood, someone made it correct. Is the stock high wood or low? High I saw your thread in GD. It's definitely worth 800$ |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 10:26:23 AM EDT
[#4]
Buy it or give me the number of the shop!
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Posted: 7/7/2015 11:01:49 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buy it or give me the number of the shop! I already put money on it I just wanted to make sure of what I was buying before I brought it home. |
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Posted: 7/7/2015 11:17:03 AM EDT
[#6]
Anything under $1000, you did good.
$800 or less, screaming deal. |
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Posted: 7/11/2015 8:20:35 PM EDT
[#7]
What else do I need pics of to show that she's all correct?
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Posted: 7/12/2015 12:12:39 AM EDT
[#8]
"Original" this isn't. That means as-manufactured, not rebuilt and not restored to correct.
Truly "original" guns are going to have some provenance. Correct possibly, can't tell from photos, but this isn't particularly rare. It just means someone took the trouble to find the parts. $800-$1000 |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 12:17:03 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Original" this isn't. That means as-manufactured, not rebuilt and not restored to correct. Truly "original" guns are going to have some provenance. Correct possibly, can't tell from photos, but this isn't particularly rare. It just means someone took the trouble to find the parts. $800-$1000 So what doesn't match on it? All of the info that I've found online points to this being a correct gun, looking at gunbroker auctions for similar guns have sold for $1900 - $2200. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=477068888 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=476362640 |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 12:37:08 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what doesn't match on it? All of the info that I've found online points to this being a correct gun, looking at gunbroker auctions for similar guns have sold for $1900 - $2200. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=477068888 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=476362640 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"Original" this isn't. That means as-manufactured, not rebuilt and not restored to correct. Truly "original" guns are going to have some provenance. Correct possibly, can't tell from photos, but this isn't particularly rare. It just means someone took the trouble to find the parts. $800-$1000 So what doesn't match on it? All of the info that I've found online points to this being a correct gun, looking at gunbroker auctions for similar guns have sold for $1900 - $2200. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=477068888 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=476362640 M1 Carbines weren't like M1 Garands where you would expect an SA or Win Garand to have all SA or Win parts. M1 Carbines rarely (if ever?) had all parts from the same factory since so many of them had to borrow parts from other factories to keep up with production. At least that's what every M1 Carbine book I own says. |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 12:40:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M1 Carbines weren't like M1 Garands where you would expect an SA or Win Garand to have all SA or Win parts. M1 Carbines rarely (if ever?) had all parts from the same factory since so many of them had to borrow parts from other factories to keep up with production. At least that's what every M1 Carbine book I own says. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: "Original" this isn't. That means as-manufactured, not rebuilt and not restored to correct. Truly "original" guns are going to have some provenance. Correct possibly, can't tell from photos, but this isn't particularly rare. It just means someone took the trouble to find the parts. $800-$1000 So what doesn't match on it? All of the info that I've found online points to this being a correct gun, looking at gunbroker auctions for similar guns have sold for $1900 - $2200. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=477068888 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=476362640 M1 Carbines weren't like M1 Garands where you would expect an SA or Win Garand to have all SA or Win parts. M1 Carbines rarely (if ever?) had all parts from the same factory since so many of them had to borrow parts from other factories to keep up with production. At least that's what every M1 Carbine book I own says. |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 12:41:16 PM EDT
[#12]
got to be careful with "original" carbines.. lots of folks like to try to roll back the clock and swap parts to make them "correct".. or to get some $$$ out of them.
You did fine at the price point.. there are many fake flip up early pattern rear sights.. any pictures of the top of the sight / staking marks. Here is an example of an early M1 Carbine, only upgrade at arsenal was the mag release proably done at the field arsenals in 1944.. of course there is no way to be certain.. (its a 1943 carbine)- The carbine has been in my family since the late 1950s.. 
Cheers. |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 12:48:03 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
..and I agree with you but why do the auctions with the same parts that my gun has sell for so much? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"Original" this isn't. That means as-manufactured, not rebuilt and not restored to correct. Truly "original" guns are going to have some provenance. Correct possibly, can't tell from photos, but this isn't particularly rare. It just means someone took the trouble to find the parts. $800-$1000 So what doesn't match on it? All of the info that I've found online points to this being a correct gun, looking at gunbroker auctions for similar guns have sold for $1900 - $2200. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=477068888 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=476362640 M1 Carbines weren't like M1 Garands where you would expect an SA or Win Garand to have all SA or Win parts. M1 Carbines rarely (if ever?) had all parts from the same factory since so many of them had to borrow parts from other factories to keep up with production. At least that's what every M1 Carbine book I own says. Because the average person is borderline retarded. There's also something about auctions that bring out the competitive side of people which ends up clouding their judgement and so they bid more than what they would normally spend. |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 12:52:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because the average person is borderline retarded. There's also something about auctions that bring out the competitive side of people which ends up clouding their judgement and so they bid more than what they would normally spend. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: "Original" this isn't. That means as-manufactured, not rebuilt and not restored to correct. Truly "original" guns are going to have some provenance. Correct possibly, can't tell from photos, but this isn't particularly rare. It just means someone took the trouble to find the parts. $800-$1000 So what doesn't match on it? All of the info that I've found online points to this being a correct gun, looking at gunbroker auctions for similar guns have sold for $1900 - $2200. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=477068888 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=476362640 M1 Carbines weren't like M1 Garands where you would expect an SA or Win Garand to have all SA or Win parts. M1 Carbines rarely (if ever?) had all parts from the same factory since so many of them had to borrow parts from other factories to keep up with production. At least that's what every M1 Carbine book I own says. Because the average person is borderline retarded. There's also something about auctions that bring out the competitive side of people which ends up clouding their judgement and so they bid more than what they would normally spend. Then I hope to get several of those ppl bidding on this rifle because it's going on Gunbroker tonight |
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Posted: 7/12/2015 2:10:38 PM EDT
[#15]
oh you bought it just to flip.. good luck
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Posted: 7/13/2015 9:42:00 AM EDT
[#16]
You're going to need much better non-potato pics with an uncluttered background. Carbine collectors are the Rainmen of the US Martial collecting world. Every part should be marked. You're going to need a picture of them all. Do you have a bolt disassembly tool? You're also going to need a good clear closeup of the rear sight and the receiver area showing any stake marks around the sight.
Good Luck. |
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Posted: 7/13/2015 10:42:25 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
M1 Carbines weren't like M1 Garands where you would expect an SA or Win Garand to have all SA or Win parts. M1 Carbines rarely (if ever?) had all parts from the same factory since so many of them had to borrow parts from other factories to keep up with production. At least that's what every M1 Carbine book I own says. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"Original" this isn't. That means as-manufactured, not rebuilt and not restored to correct. Truly "original" guns are going to have some provenance. Correct possibly, can't tell from photos, but this isn't particularly rare. It just means someone took the trouble to find the parts. $800-$1000 So what doesn't match on it? All of the info that I've found online points to this being a correct gun, looking at gunbroker auctions for similar guns have sold for $1900 - $2200. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=477068888 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=476362640 M1 Carbines weren't like M1 Garands where you would expect an SA or Win Garand to have all SA or Win parts. M1 Carbines rarely (if ever?) had all parts from the same factory since so many of them had to borrow parts from other factories to keep up with production. At least that's what every M1 Carbine book I own says. That's not quite correct. Virtually all M1 Carbines came from their factories with parts from that manufacturer or its subcontractors. One would expect an Underwood carbine to be entirely Underwood parts, an IBM carbine the same. However, some prime contractors didn't make all of the parts (especially barrels) and so they sourced those parts from other manufacturers. I don't see anything wrong with Ghetto's carbine. As Dracster said, there are many more marked parts we'd need to see, but it looks fine right now. |
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Posted: 7/13/2015 1:34:20 PM EDT
[#18]
From your pics the gun looks correct and original. It's very hard to replicate "the look". I've had several original M1s (both Garands and Carbines) and after a while it gets very easy to spot a good one. If you take many good pics of every part, you'll get at least $1500 for it.
FYI: the pictures in your auction leave a lot to be desired. |
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Posted: 7/15/2015 3:11:44 PM EDT
[#19]
What is the date on that barrel?
While I agree with what some people are saying. That a guy might throw together an all correct carbine. The fact is, it has early parts. Soldered trigger group, push button safety, early mag catch, flat bolt, type I band, flip sight, high wood stock. It LOOKS like an unmessed with WWII carbine. Which is not the norm. An arsenal rebuilt is the norm. Even if someone did source the parts, and they are all USGI, there's still quite a bit of value in that. A real flip sight alone I've seen go for 250 bucks. I'm not sure what a high wood stock brings, but they're not cheap. But as someone said, I think it it's possible that it's un-messed with. But what's weird is my brain is telling me there is something wrong with that date on the barrel. It looks like a 46 in the pic. But that can't be right. But if it's a zero, I'm not sure that's right either. I have a book here and I suppose I could look up when they started producing underwoods. |
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Posted: 7/15/2015 3:14:39 PM EDT
[#20]
10-43 barrel date. Matches up nicely with the receiver serial number.
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Posted: 7/15/2015 3:18:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10-43 barrel date. Matches up nicely with the receiver serial number. Yeah it's a bad picture but I added the date in the description |
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Posted: 7/15/2015 5:16:52 PM EDT
[#22]
OK, for some reason my eyes weren't seeing it that way until now. I say the thing is good to go and might very well be untouched from the beginning. Except I think that square stamp means it was serviced at some point. But even if it was serviced, if all the parts were serviceable, they might not have replaced anything. I don't know all the codes to all the subcontractors, but I know enough that not every part on the gun is going to be marked with just a "U" in order to be correct. A lot of smaller places made parts for the bigger manufactures and were marked as such. There was a sheet going around somewhere that showed that. But you have to go on milsurps or cmp boards to see it. It's kind of complex.
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Posted: 7/15/2015 5:24:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK, for some reason my eyes weren't seeing it that way until now. I say the thing is good to go and might very well be untouched from the beginning. Except I think that square stamp means it was serviced at some point. But even if it was serviced, if all the parts were serviceable, they might not have replaced anything. I don't know all the codes to all the subcontractors, but I know enough that not every part on the gun is going to be marked with just a "U" in order to be correct. A lot of smaller places made parts for the bigger manufactures and were marked as such. There was a sheet going around somewhere that showed that. But you have to go on milsurps or cmp boards to see it. It's kind of complex. The GHD/UEF stamp? That's on all wartime Underwood stocks, it's the original inspection stamp when the rifle was accepted for service. BG Guy H. Drewry (that's the GHD) was only chief inspector from 1942 through 1945, so any stamp with his initials cannot be post-war. GHD inspection marks are also common on Colt M1911A1s, Winchester Garands, and US Martial shotguns. |
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Posted: 7/16/2015 1:45:24 AM EDT
[#24]
There ya go. I wasn't sure if that was inspection stamp or a rehaul stamp. I know just enough to be dangerous with these things. I'm curious as to why homeinvader said what he did. If he knows more about these or what. I'm not sure why it's assumed these parts aren't original. He'd have to have the sheet that shows all the subcontractors that were used and how they stamped. Furthermore, as I understand it, there were many times one manufacture might swap parts with another from the get go as supply and demand was a fluid thing. And since they were designed to use any part available..... I'm not sure if I'm saying that to make sense but...
Lets say inland had a bunch of trigger groups and there was another manufacture short of them and needed them for finishing, they might've gotten some of inland's stash to complete their rifles and hence supply the troops quicker. No need to wait for another shipment somewhere else or make some up. Not sure how much that happened and I don't think it was even recorded as to what manufacture's part went into each rifle. It just was done. I might be wrong on the details, but that's how I understand it. So.... I don't see why it's assumed this rifle had to have some guy piecing it together. Other than that it would be rare for any carbine to actually survive as it was from the factory. But that doesn't mean impossible. |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 6:18:16 AM EDT
[#25]
A test is worth a thousand expert opinions.
When you put that puppy on Gunbroker, you'll be performing the 'test' on how much it is really worth. Post the link so we can see how accurate our expert opinions were! (My opinion would be no better than any other...) I've got a Irwin Pedersen that someday may be 'tested' on Gunbroker! Ray |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 6:30:48 AM EDT
[#26]
Have you shot it op?
Few things in this world are as fun as an m1 carbine |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 9:06:20 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you shot it op? Few things in this world are as fun as an m1 carbine I put 15rds through it last night, lots of fun  |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 9:07:34 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A test is worth a thousand expert opinions. When you put that puppy on Gunbroker, you'll be performing the 'test' on how much it is really worth. Post the link so we can see how accurate our expert opinions were! (My opinion would be no better than any other...) I've got a Irwin Pedersen that someday may be 'tested' on Gunbroker! Ray Posting a link to a live auction of an item that I'm selling is against the rules here but a simple search on gunbroker will pull it up (hint it has 9 days left) |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 8:45:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Ghetto,
I've bookmarked your Gunbroker listing. Good luck! My very first Carbine was a Underwood. Still have it. $80 is what it cost in 1975 or '1976. Been refurbed, though. And the stock cartouches are no where near as clean as yours. Ray |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 8:53:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ghetto, I've bookmarked your Gunbroker listing. Good luck! My very first Carbine was a Underwood. Still have it. $80 is what it cost in 1975 or '1976. Been refurbed, though. And the stock cartouches are no where near as clean as yours. Ray Thanks! |
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Posted: 7/26/2015 10:14:35 PM EDT
[#31]
I had 31 watchers and not one single bid so I sold it for $1440 shipped
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Posted: 7/27/2015 2:57:27 PM EDT
[#32]
I'm not surprised. I guess a congrats are in order!!!!
So why did you want to let that one go? Seemed like such a nice one. |
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Posted: 7/27/2015 3:02:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not surprised. I guess a congrats are in order!!!! So why did you want to let that one go? Seemed like such a nice one. I need a shooter not a collectors piece |
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Posted: 7/28/2015 1:51:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Aaaaaaah. That makes sense.
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Posted: 7/28/2015 7:41:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Ever think about the new Inland carbines? I too am in search for a shooter, but all I see are import marked carbines for $800-1K and non import for $900 or more. At that point I'd rather almost just spend the little extra for a new one.
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