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Three rifle mags on the belt seems like a lot to me. You could shed weight by moving two of them to your chest.
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PMO or something of the like, I presume?
Is limiting the number of rifle mags on the table at all, or is that number unit-directed? |
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PMO or something of the like, I presume? Is limiting the number of rifle mags on the table at all, or is that number unit-directed? View Quote Unit directed. About the only thing on the table in the "remove some gear" category is swapping the Taser our for an ASP. Don't think that'll save me much weight though. |
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Hm. Well, that makes things trickier. I had the best luck with a war belt fitted over my trousers' belt as opposed to on top of my hips like a backpack's waist belt. I carried fewer M4 mags, no radio, and no taser, though. I just had less weight overall. At the time, I was using an old Tactical Tailor MOLLE warbler w/out suspenders, and it was fine.
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Hm. Well, that makes things trickier. I had the best luck with a war belt fitted over my trousers' belt as opposed to on top of my hips like a backpack's waist belt. I carried fewer M4 mags, no radio, and no taser, though. I just had less weight overall. At the time, I was using an old Tactical Tailor MOLLE warbler w/out suspenders, and it was fine. View Quote Yeah, I'll have to play around with some stuff to see if I can fix the issue, just figured I'd check and see if this was perhaps a common issue with an easy solution that I've overlooked. |
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Ew, MPs.
What is everyone else wearing? Might want to drop the heavier battle belt setup for a regular 1.5-2" two piece duty belt. You are carrying around a lot of extra nylon, and the padding is probably hitting you in the wrong places. |
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What type of inner belt are you using? If its sagging you may want to look for a stiffer inner belt.
ETA: I use a Crye MRB with a Volund Gear inner belt. Granted I'm not rocking three rifle mags (just one) it's super comfortable. The HSGI tacos aren't the lightest pouches out there either. You may want to consider a different style. It's only a few ounces here and there but ounces =pounds etc etc I also don't understand the mag loadout. Only two pistol mags but three rifle mags? Are you some sort of static security where you always have your rifle? I'd make the argument to drop two of the rifle mags and have a third pistol mag. Perhaps you could either store one of the rifle Mags in a buttstock pouch or a redimag. Maybe your CoC would be receptive if you put a plan together. |
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Ew, MPs. What is everyone else wearing? Might want to drop the heavier battle belt setup for a regular 1.5-2" two piece duty belt. You are carrying around a lot of extra nylon, and the padding is probably hitting you in the wrong places. View Quote I actually tried sticking my rifle mags on my standard 2" duty belt that I typically wear if I'm not carrying a rifle but it's just too much weight. (ETA: I forgot to add, we aren't authorized to tuck in our uniform top so we can attach a standard duty belt to our pants belt with belt keepers. If that were authorized, I think it would be a lot less of an issue. Basically, this "battle belt" setup seemed like the best option in a shitty situation) We're issued a crappy H-Harness for use when carrying a rifle but it puts the weight in all the wrong places. I figured having the inner pad would help with the weight issue, buts it's not as good as I'd hoped it would be. |
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What type of inner belt are you using? If its sagging you may want to look for a stiffer inner belt. ETA: I use a Crye MRB with a Volund Gear inner belt. Granted I'm not rocking three rifle mags (just one) it's super comfortable. The HSGI tacos aren't the lightest pouches out there either. You may want to consider a different style. It's only a few ounces here and there but ounces =pounds etc etc I also don't understand the mag loadout. Only two pistol mags but three rifle mags? Are you some sort of static security where you always have your rifle? I'd make the argument to drop two of the rifle mags and have a third pistol mag. Perhaps you could either store one of the rifle Mags in a buttstock pouch or a redimag. Maybe your CoC would be receptive if you put a plan together. View Quote Inner belt is an HSGI Riggers belt. Also, I'm not static, the current load out is kind of a stop-gap measure. Changing it isn't going to be in the cards, though. I guess my hope now is to push for a better chest rig setup than what we're currently issued. |
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Shed the double rifle mag pouch, go with another HSGI rifle/pistol taco like you already have and place them where the X26 currently resides. Place the X26 behind your mags, move your comms behind the X26. I would seriously consider shedding the X26 and going with an ASP, can you store the X26 and other gear in a BOB or something similar?
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My suggestions. Change out the cobra belt for a 2" belt. Change Taser holster for a molle one that is only 2 columns instead of 4. Ditch the double rifle mag pouch and have three single mag pouches side by side. Spreads out the weight a bit.
Also, you said that you were issued an H-Harness? You could always add a pad to your existing belt system, or just get authorization to have a harness on what you have there. I have a feeling that one of the problems that you are having is that double rifle mag pouch digging into your side right there. |
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shouldn't the H harness be pulling the weight of the belt off of your hips?
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Not a cop -- but why the hell are you carrying a Taser if you NEED a pistol and a reload and a carbine with 120 freaking rounds?
Seriously -- not trying to be a Richard. |
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Not a cop -- but why the hell are you carrying a Taser if you NEED a pistol and a reload and a carbine with 120 freaking rounds? Seriously -- not trying to be a Richard. View Quote Probably because 99% of the time he's not going to need to use deadly force but the possibility of a no shit serious threat is well within the realm of possibility. |
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Seems like you're basically screwed.
Thinking out of the box... Do they need to be 30rd mags? Could you get away with 20 rounders? What about a mag coupler or fast mag to get one of the mags on your rifle and off your person? You also need to find lighter mag pouches. While TACOs are cool, I don't see a point for them if you don't need to swap mag types. Otherwise a standard AR type mag is awesome. What about TT fight light or Blue force helium whisper? You have a LOT of heavy nylon. Get a stiffer, lighter internal belt without heavy hardware on it (like a D-Ring). Can you find a way to not stack your mags? Having the weight further out from your body will cause excess sagging. Get the Taser on a duty drop and off the MOLLE adapter so you have more MOLLE space available so you won't need to stack. As for suspenders, what about suspenders under your ACU top (you said MP?) attached to your inner belt, and belt keepers to the outer belt? |
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My suggestions. Change out the cobra belt for a 2" belt. Change Taser holster for a molle one that is only 2 columns instead of 4. Ditch the double rifle mag pouch and have three single mag pouches side by side. Spreads out the weight a bit. Also, you said that you were issued an H-Harness? You could always add a pad to your existing belt system, or just get authorization to have a harness on what you have there. I have a feeling that one of the problems that you are having is that double rifle mag pouch digging into your side right there. View Quote Thanks for the suggestions and I think some of the things you mentioned I may pursue. The double stacked mags seem to be sagging the most. |
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Seems like you're basically screwed. Thinking out of the box... Do they need to be 30rd mags? Could you get away with 20 rounders? What about a mag coupler or fast mag to get one of the mags on your rifle and off your person? You also need to find lighter mag pouches. While TACOs are cool, I don't see a point for them if you don't need to swap mag types. Otherwise a standard AR type mag is awesome. What about TT fight light or Blue force helium whisper? You have a LOT of heavy nylon. Get a stiffer, lighter internal belt without heavy hardware on it (like a D-Ring). Can you find a way to not stack your mags? Having the weight further out from your body will cause excess sagging. Get the Taser on a duty drop and off the MOLLE adapter so you have more MOLLE space available so you won't need to stack. As for suspenders, what about suspenders under your ACU top (you said MP?) attached to your inner belt, and belt keepers to the outer belt? View Quote Alright, let's see if I can hit all these points. - 30 rounders can't be changed. I pretty much can't modify any of the actual pieces of equipment from their current form. - I am going to look into different mag pouches to include getting rid of the double stack setup. - This weekend I'm going to swap out the HSGI Riggers for a standard 2" duty belt to see if that helps any. I hadn't really realized, but the HSGI belt is heavy as fuck. - I really wish I could use belt keepers to attach the outer belt to my trouser belt but I can't tuck in my uniform top, so that's out sadly. I think your first sentence describes my situation perfectly. I made some changes earlier today (loosened the belt a tad and chopped an arm off the Blackhawk MOLLE adapter for the X26 holster so I could scoot the mag pouches one row forward). We'll see if that makes any difference and then I'll go from there. |
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Maybe go for some Tactical Tailor Fight Lite pouches or BFG ten speed pouches?
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Disclaimer....Not LE.
I've carried a similar load out with the exception of the taser and handcuffs (but I did have an IFAK in the SOB) using an inner/outer belt combo. At the time, mine was a First Spear AGB with an inner belt made by US Grunt Gear (IIRC). I personally didn't have any sagging issues with this as the belt combo kept things pretty tight. I'm not going to tell you it was the most comfortable thing in the world but it worked better than a "battle belt" setup. There were not really any venues that would allow long guns so having the 30 rounders was essentially useless.....it would have made more sense to carry AK mags and grab one from somebody. If you have to go back to your vehicle (or whatever the situation is) to grab the long gun, I don't understand why leadership wouldn't see the benefit of keeping a bandolier or something right next to it with a combat load. You grab the rifle and ammo and there you go..... Take a look at the AWS inner/outer combo. Relatively inexpensive to try as an alternative. |
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Something tells me you need a better belt. Have you looked at the volund micro battle belt? I love mine. When I got it a buddy and I decided to be stupid and loaded that fucker down with about 50lbs before I got it to be uncomfortable
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There are a lot of good suggestions here.
Why not remove the gun from the belt? Go back to drop leg config but rig the holster to work without the QD buckle and remove the top leg strap? The gun would than sit in a "low ride" position but that weight would be off the battle belt. With your ABU belt tightened and the leg strap cinched properly the gun won't move much at all in a run. |
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Well I seem to have made things bearable, loosening up the belt just a tad and switching to a thinner trouser belt (the weight of the "battle belt" was pushing down on my trouser belt causing it to dig into my hips) seems to have worked. I think I'm still going to swap out the double stacked M4 mags, but other than that I think I'll be good.
Thanks for the recommendations guys. |
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Any more than one rifle mag on the belt is asking for trouble...
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Agreed. Keep one mag in your rifle and 1x Mag on your belt and that's plenty. While overseas I had to have 3x AR/3x M9 mags on me, 2 of which I kept on my battle belt, and I experienced issues with a weight imbalance. I switched to a chest rig for my mags/pistol and it was much more comfy). Pic of belt before chest rig change: http://i.imgur.com/pVySoPYh.jpg?4 View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Any more than one rifle mag on the belt is asking for trouble... Agreed. Keep one mag in your rifle and 1x Mag on your belt and that's plenty. While overseas I had to have 3x AR/3x M9 mags on me, 2 of which I kept on my battle belt, and I experienced issues with a weight imbalance. I switched to a chest rig for my mags/pistol and it was much more comfy). Pic of belt before chest rig change: http://i.imgur.com/pVySoPYh.jpg?4 He's already said that it's command directed that he keep 3 30rd mags on his belt. |
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He's already said that it's command directed that he keep 3 30rd mags on his belt. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Any more than one rifle mag on the belt is asking for trouble... Agreed. Keep one mag in your rifle and 1x Mag on your belt and that's plenty. While overseas I had to have 3x AR/3x M9 mags on me, 2 of which I kept on my battle belt, and I experienced issues with a weight imbalance. I switched to a chest rig for my mags/pistol and it was much more comfy). Pic of belt before chest rig change: http://i.imgur.com/pVySoPYh.jpg?4 He's already said that it's command directed that he keep 3 30rd mags on his belt. I missed that part... that sounds like a horrible directive to not give your soldiers/officers the option to carry them other ways. I think a good option would be a active shooter pack ( like a maxpedition LEO Versipack ) with the spare mags in them; and keep 1 mag in the AR15 and the rest in the active shooter pack. |
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I'm an LEO that's always worn the two belt system, no experience with a battle belt rig, but I'll weigh in a bit FWIW.
My guess would be that the nylon inner belt is not rigid enough and that the outer molle belt is even thinner material but wider and perhaps pulls the weight oddly. Again, I haven't played with battle belts, but I've tried to study their construction by pics. Is there a way you could add (underneath) a strip of metal or plastic the same width of the molle outer belt to help keep more rigidity support. OR, could you change out the inner belt to a stiffer material like your standard 2 1/4" leather belt? OR, could you wear a lifting support brace under your uniform? IMO, those seem like a cheaper fix IF they're even possible. Otherwise I'm not sure if drop leg platforms are allowed or not, but you could possibly put your mags and/or pistol on a drop leg system(s). |
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I concur with the suggestions of using lighter-weight pouches, and deleting any double-stack pouches. Finding room/location seems do-able considering the pic provided. Again, I concur with the idea of using a lighter, wider inner belt. The cobra-buckled belt you are using was designed for use (along with the metal loop) for restraint in helos and such. Unless this part of your mission, some considerable weight-savings, as well as better belt pressure distribution could be obtained by using a more suitable, wider and lighter inner belt, which would allow you to also delete the relatively heavy cobra buckle. As you probably know, such safety belts are not recommended for rapelling, and for good reason. Any reduction in the stiffness of the new inner belt can be remedied by using some 1/16" thick HDPE sheeting inserted into the outer belt, and UNDER the inner belt. Available at Graingers and Amazon. Measure carefully (templates are great), and cut with aviation snips from Harbor Freight. Sand ALL the edges, and round off corners, lest the plastic wear holes in the nylon. That will stiffen the outer belt (and spread the weight) without any significant weight penalty. The sheeting will also serve to reduce "pressure points" from which you seem to be suffering
The easiest solution would be a better set of suspenders. I'm a little confused because you mention a "crappy H-harness" in your original post, but later on you mention that adding a pair of low-profile suspenders is not possible. Perhaps you could expand on that, as well as any uniform or command issues that might be pertinent. I'm sure that a good solution can be found. Perhaps it might be as simple as changing where you wear your belt, perhaps moving it up or down a bit. That said, there is a definite limit as to how loose a heavy belt lacking suspenders/harness can be worn without the danger of it slipping, as I'm sure you know. |
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Not to be a jerk or derail but is there any way to work on getting a tourniquet and blowout kit in there? I am not an expert but I think a good belt and good suspenders will a long way to helping distribute / support the weight better.
The nerves being pressed may be due more to posture than to the weight of the gear. Good luck |
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shouldn't the H harness be pulling the weight of the belt off of your hips? View Quote Here is the thing. Weight carried by your back isn't a good thing. Your hips are lower and more solid. Carrying more weight on your hips should be a lot easier and less stressful on your frame overall. People who use suspenders are negating a big advantage of a battle belt IMO. I load mine up and can wear it all day and my back is hosed so I'm wondering if the OP has another perhaps undiagnosed issue or one thing on the belt is hitting a nerve or something else his body doesn't like. A solid, quality belt helps a lot with negating the needs for suspenders. Plus, everyone's body is different. I don't need suspenders no matter how much I put on mine. Some could have a Kleenex on it and need a way to keep them from falling. |
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MP here, I switched to a thin velcro liner belt (actually the liner belt to a ronin gun belt) the stiff and thinness proved to be way more comfortable for me with a duty belt than our issued riggers belt (or any of my other personal belts).
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Bro, EMDOM low pro suspenders. Also tactical tailor has 30% off right now. Buy a fight lit gp pouch, will hold all three mags. Offset against your radio.
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