http://soldiersystems.net/2016/03/11/lbt-expands-dougs-trench-more-opportunities-for-custom-colors/

http://lbtinc.com/dougstrench.html

Has anyone requested any Project Gold Label gear from LBT yet, what was your experience?

I submitted a request recently and was very surprised that they replied within hours.

The LBT email stated that if my selection  wins approval, I will be notified. Seemed like a standard form letter, since they must be getting thousands of emails from all over the World. Impressive, since I expected a quick rejection email.

Filled with suspense, now if I receive a LBT email with an attachment, I guess that could be an Approval letter with pdf order form. Anything else could be a denial.

I requested a copy be made of one of my plate carriers and I added a few minimal accessories that may not be commonly available to go with it to keep costs down.

I hope LBT will allow the plate carrier sizes to be mixed within the total minimum required to do the run. To mean, 1) allowing combining totals for both Swimmer and ESAPI plate cuts, 2) combining all the A, B and C plate sizes, and 3) including various user selected cummerbund sizes: S/M. L. XL, XXL etc., within total.

I am guessing the MSRP on just the requested plate carrier alone could be around or exceeding $1000.

Wish me luck guys. If I hit the lottery, then I need to find a bunch of guys who share my tastes for gear selection!

$1000 for a plate carrier?  

Nein, danke.

$1000 range is my uneducated estimate. I do not have an approval from LBT let alone a quote and no money is being sought from you here. Naturally the price could be much less or more.

If you have purchased Crye Precision gear and their top of the line carrier, there should be no sticker shock. Looking at LBT's MSRP and walking into their VA store, you could easily spend that much on a carrier when taking into account tax, etc.

From what I understand, this LBT program is an opportunity to make dreams happen, If there is a rig you have always wanted, here is your chance.

To me this is a good way to have some backup pieces to use, while saving the original very limited production runs as keepsakes, etc.

Meh- like the Soldier Systems link says, they're legally excluded from producing what would be their biggest seller of all time - AOR1 pattern gear.

I did not think this program was in any way about getting AOR1 gear. BTW it might interest you to know, that they have sold AOR gear to the public before.

I would be down for an old school escape and evasion pouch or a old school Chest rig.

To bad they don't publish an archive catalog so you can just tell them the number without having to describe the thing or find a internet picture.

If there is a rig I want, I'll build it........Cordura......Hypalon......Trelleborg HANK.......Invista 3220 NIR webbing......short of the molded padding on the Crye CAGE system or the 2" friction buckles on the AVS/CVS shoulder straps,  I build whatever I want or need.

It's definitely cool, but I already got the carrier I want, 6094a in M81 and my buddy has the other one I would want, 6094 in 3 color desert/DCU.  Only things that I think would be worth it to me would be a carrier in those rad Norwegian or Swedish patterns.  If I had money to burn, you bet I'd buy it.

Also, I was under the impression that there were minimum quantities and such, and it wasn't just for one-offs.  

And I kind of always thought LBT would make whatever you wanted if you had the cash?

Not sure about LBT, but Eagle Industries would do that if you had 25ish+ quantities IIRC.

Would like some mass grey kit!

As always, I think the R&D blue print fee design program you mention, is still a go as a separate program. Furthermore, in the past they also accepted special orders for non R&D items.

From what LBT has posted, this Project Gold Label is more widespread oriented to give everyone a chance for current items with the Gold Label.

However considering the background of #dougstrench in also reintroducing retired patterns and items, who knows, with luck they may also bring them back.

I bet guys in Norway, Sweden and other countries have already suggested those to LBT #ProjectGoldLabel but if that is your dream, go ahead and make a submission.

That's what I mean about LBT.  

"Hi, LBT!  I need 25 6094s in Danish M84"
"No problem, that will be $11,000."  
"Thanks!"

Sounds like a better deal I can afford for a dream PC than $11,000 a piece.

Or you can wait to buy from the various airsoft tactical auction superstore dealers who buy them all up to sell at a profit.

I think this is a good, honest well intentioned, LBT program, it levels the playing field a bit. The dealers who buy with intent to later gouge the prices and rarity with classic keyword spamming, sometimes through anon accounts, may be the ones impacted to some degree. Now we can go direct to LBT with our crowd.

Tactical Tailor made some one-offs for myself and others in a unit I was in a while back, no minimum order, but that was then and this is now. Customer service was absolutely incredible every step of the way. The owner (deceased, I believe) himself called a few times to make sure they understood what we wanted.

TSSI made us a run of uniforms, minimum order 50 per size I believe, and they were willing to be innovative and bring their suggestions and experience in line with our needs. They may make gear as well. Awesome service, could not have asked for better. We threw them some curveballs and strange ideas that were ahead of their time, and they still worked with us. This was in the days long before most people thought of using Velcro for insignia.

The most expensive Crye carrier is still several hundred dollars less than that.  As far as "making dreams happen", I guess you get a lot more emotionally attached to equipment than I do.  I use and destroy my plate carriers on the regular.  I don't name them, and I don't daydream about what they could be thinking about when im not around them.  I just run them into the dirt and buy another one.

LBT overprices their equipment exponentially due to government contracts.  Nothing they sell is worth even close to what they charge.  I have tons of their stuff, but it was either issued to me, or bought secondhand or on a closeout sale, which is where you start to see some more realistic pricing.

Respectfully, my estimated price was for brand new manufacturer direct hopefully with lifetime warranty. Not misappropriated from Uncle Barry Tom.

No this is not a - I sneaked on a base to bother some operators who deserve their right to privacy, to be left alone and not be bothered, with my pestering offers at One Cent for their Dollar deal prices, etc.

Not being one of their shoppers, I do not have a CP web account and previously seeking some mag pouches, they did not seem to be in stock and if they existed, may have been dream priced.


CAGE Armor Chassis™ CP Price: $1,642.80

http://www.cryeprecision.com/ProductDetail/armc4960xl0_cage-armor-chassis

CP Color: Ranger Green. Close, but No, at that price the CP is not in LBT MAS Grey.

"TO ALLOW FOR CUSTOM CONFIGURATION, PLATEBAG SETS ARE SOLD SEPARATELY AND SIZED INDEPENDENTLY FROM THE
ARMOR CHASSIS™. MAKE SURE YOU ORDER A PLATEBAG SET TO COMPLETE YOUR KIT. ARMOR CHASSIS™ WITH PLATEBAGS
WILL BE SHIPPED ASSEMBLED"

+

Chassis™ Platebags: $167.70 (Assuming this is for a set of two: Front and Back, please correct me if I am wrong)

http://www.cryeprecision.com/ProductDetail/covps060xl0_chassis-platebags

+

Now if they have a CASS suspension system to go with that, like for the LBT 6094, please include that in total as an option. Not familiar about this setup and its necessities.


I am nobody to tell anyone, including LBT, that their price is over-priced. It is not Marxism, it is MSRP, their right and they are doing me a favor. If I can not pay the price, I bow out respectfully, with a thousand pardons.

The purpose of this thread is not to squabble and dispute over prices. Not everyone can benefit from closeout prices on the items sought. Nor live long enough in this lifetime to find the items.

Especially when seeking gifts with deadlines to face, circumstances of life and other factors. Many of us are still forced to pay retail, tax, meet the price or miss out completely. Given the asking prices, which is their right to ask, they are often found only in dreams.

The last new CP CAGE PCs of interest, as in AOR1, I saw offered were in the 1000-1500 range each. A dream price. It is not the best of times. With this LBT program, and its so-called crowd funding, who knows? Maybe it will not be a dream price, but something attainable, to make the gift giving occasions that much more special, in the lifetime that remains.

This is what LBT Project Gold Label represents to me. If everything goes right, turning into a miracle, in that they select my highly remote and unlikely dream. Then a very small chance exists, in making that dream a reality. If not, it is just another Vanishing Image from that dream.

To each his own. Though I do not talk to them, yet. I truly wish I could. My remaining carriers do have names. Some believe, people live on in their items and these are precious memories to be treasured and passed on, even after they have passed.

The ratio of dreams to gear is too damn high.

That read like it was an excerpt from "The Notebook", if The Notebook was a tale about you and your plate carrier.

Thanks for the explanation.   I didn't realize how much extra ppl would be willing to pay just for an oddball color or camo pattern.     I had tried and failed to think of what improved features that could be applied to the trusty ol' LBT-6094 to more than double its price, even the Quick Releasable Sentinel 6094 comes in under that price.    

 

An LBT-6094B in Multicam or Multicam Tropic (with CASS War Belt to help transfer weight off my spine onto hips) as my "heavy" rig; altered JPC in M81 Woodland with M81 Woodland Murdock woven webbing as "light" rig; and altered Lightweight RRV w/TFS-777 float bladder as an RJFA rig or post-hurricane Block Security rig suit every need I can think I'd ever need them for.


Any extra $ I get after my spinal surgery goes towards a lighter <16" Recce, updated lightweight sub 5lb ballistic plates to replace my TAP Gammas, commo etc.    

This is a long reply, if anyone with the skills, wishes to take the time and edit the poor composition, etc., please feel free to do so, It is late, I am also pressed for time, so please excuse the errors and omissions.

With originally posting this thread. I never intended to go into so much detail, since I did not deem that relevant. I wanted to learn from those of you, what to expect from LBT. What that LBT approval email looks like, with or without attachment. As posted before, I was also concerned how the members here think that LBT would address the size issue. Will they allow the size and cut variations I mentioned, as part of the one total? Naturally there is a bit of suspense.

With regards to the thread topic. If any of you have experience with the #projectgoldlabel program, have made a submission, received an approval, denial and or have any gear submission recommendations that you like for any reason. Feel free to please enlighten us.

This is not about lanes, pains and bragging rights. It would be completely inappropriate and intolerable, to belittle and humiliate anyone for desiring pieces of gear for whatever reason.. After all, this is the internet and we can not always hope to convey the proper meaning and respect given the medium used, tap talk screen and time available. So do not take anything said the wrong way.



Background

"Doug's Trench

Doug's Trench is [a] new program for limited releases and rare production runs based off consumer feedback, it will consist of rare patterns and kit from the London Bridge Trading archives."

Project Gold Label

"Essentially this is a product selection with the option of [choosing] a specific color or camo... No modifications."

For more access to products. Hopefully LBT will consider their original Doug's Trench mission purpose, concerning rare production runs, to also be included within the #projectgoldlabel scope of limited to "existing products." I have my fingers crossed on this.


The Submission

Given the geographic features of our areas. I submitted a RFQ, for the version of the 6094 which combines the features of Release (RS) with the Underway (UW), to represent the "best" within reason, suited for our needs. Yes, this also happens to be, maybe our most favorite "all round" LBT carrier of all time.


Making Potential Comparisons

If our intent is to seek a fair comparisons, where none really can be made. Then we would have to find the Crye Precision manufacturer direct version of LBT's #projectgoldlabel program, that is open to the public. To include MSRP price (not MARX-ist Uncle Barry Tom price) listed on the Crye Precison website for order. I also provided some quotes in another post, from the Crye Precion website, to that you will have to add shipping and possibly tax to comprehend the $1000 +/- figure.

Then we would have to find exact PC and "rare" fabric comparisons and that is not an easy task, for me of all people to do. Can you imagine a thread topic like that here? LBT and CP can not really be compared like that. They are different PCs, maybe all equally good for what they were designed.

This is a decision best left to each of you. The point I wanted to make was, purchasing something special from the maker direct, may normally be MSRP based. Hence the generalizations I made, about pitting what I believe to be LBT's best against CP's in terms of that $1000 MSRP price range, give or take.

This thread is not really about comparable offerings from other makers, but also discovering what your #projectgoldlabel choice is from LBT, given the parameters they have set.


My Price Estimation: Nothing Official

With the prices in the market for the originals, they are not very affordable for below average people like us. Gear of this type, often find their way into the hands of wealthy overseas Mid East and Asian collectors, and to also serve as samples for copy cat airsoft manufacturers. Maybe LBT can give us a price everyone can live with and restrict the sale, to only US persons. Even still, the exporters will find an easy go around. With their seeming unlimited funds, who knows how many they have already accumulated.

I saw the standard (RS) listed around $700 MSRP on LBT's site. To that, I simply added a $300 completely uneducated guess, to what I believe the added (UW) feature could cost.

I know sometimes LBT holds 50%+ off sales to bring their standard color (RS) price down. But given the uncertainties of a sale deduction being applied to such an offering, that is how I came up with the $1000 estimate. The CASS price was not even factored for fear of increasing the price more. Perhaps it will be an option. Maybe some of you who are interested can email LBT about that. I feel bad bothering them with a reminder.


Revision

My revision selection was LBT MAS Grey. Earlier versions also incorporated black material, so I requested the more recent version that uses more MAS Grey color matched materials. Given the past tendency with some of the Doug's Trench goods, such as DCU kit, Woodland and perhaps some others. That seemed to stress the First Generation preference, towards non-color matched materials, such as the solid color webbing, etc.

I also requested an additional second possible option, to allow discontinued Classic Coyote Tan. Since MAS Grey is a proprietary fabric, I hoped the cost may be less. It may also add rarity, since that revision, has an uncertain history, of being restricted, on and off again at LBT's discretion. Hopefully LBT will not get the idea to imbed a text print to their MAS Grey, like the brand logo found on MultiCam, to give the appearance of the BlackHawk gear logos.

Yes, if possible, I requested Anti IR / Low Signature / NIR type fabric, etc., be used, but I am not sure if they will accept that. It should not be a big deal to use fabrics with dampeners, etc., to reduce IR signature. The Germans under intensive attack and scarcity of materials, were doing that during WWII with their camo uniforms under those hardships. So LBT should be able to address some of the modern threats with their materials. But LBT may consider this a design modification.

Furthermore, the Sherrif/LE/Agency/Range Masters etc. types operating in our areas, out doors, etc., wear predominantly the standard colors, even multi cam, etc., so those are colors best to avoid to some degree. So if engaged in any outdoor sporting activities, range, etc., I believe for our areas, MAS Grey and AOR are the best colors, to not readily identify you as official.

I emailed pictures of the PC version with a few views, with model #, label, to LBT with my submission so they have a better idea which one was of interest.

With a name like London Bridge Trading, I was very tempted to request that British WWII camo, other Commonwealth and Africa wars colors (not very PR oriented nowadays) I will not mention, to be the first, second and third revision choices, for the PC and Optional Kit.

But I did not think many of you would appreciate those colors, or find them respectful, over MAS Grey and Classic Coyote Tan. Given the political race card climate. Worse case, LBT might suffer a bad PR backlash for introducing those revisions and I did not want to give bad and potentially harmful advice to them.

Other manufacturers for many years have offered PCs with fire-burn resistant fabrics to the public. I wish this LBT submission could have this feature. Good for spent brass, hot barrels, powder burns, etc., at the range and 4th of July.


Optional Kit List

My next problem was deciding upon the shortest possible MAS Grey kit list to serve as an option. Since LBT already makes and or stocks certain MAS Grey products, from an old kit listing I have. I focused mostly with emphasizing items, possibly not readily available and or potentially contrary, to the purpose of why MAS Grey may have been developed.

Since this would be a very special PC, I added a request for: Embroidered Shield with Lion Patch, Molle 70 Oz Hydration Pouch with Linar/Bladder kit option, Blowout Pouch, 3 and/or 6 Mag Insert with S&S Precision MAS GREY color plastic pull tabs. I should have also added the option of a 50 Oz Hydro w/Linar kit, but failed to do so. I prefer Linar for our use, despite the fact that it may run contrary to the design intent of MAS Grey.

Since LBT will not modify a design for this run. I tried to be a bit sneaky, in asking that if they have revised the design of the current S&S Precision MAS GREY color plastic pull tabs 6146A single shingle, to now be snag free and more universal. To please also allow for these in the optional kit.

I prefer universal mag pouches, in singles format for better mounting possibilities. Open topped seemed OK since it was mostly sporting purposes oriented. I like the 6146A singles style, but my "enhancements" to make them usable for our needs and weapons, probably also tripling the weight of the fabric, would in no way be granted by LBT.

Unfortunately the past 6146A's seen have the lips folded inward and this creates a pocket of fabric and stitches to snag on different types of mags, like 5.56mm H&K G36, SAN Swiss 550-553, AUG, AK, etc. Yes, I know those pouches are marketed as only for M4. You would think these are all common weapons in conflict zones from Africa, Mid East to Europe. And with all the LE in the USA using the SIG and HK rifles, I was hopeful LBT would have made a more universal verson of that pouch, like other manufacturers.

Plus they are popular weapons for US gun owners. Unfortunately, I also prefer our handgun mags to be the same open topped molle faced style, with at least 3 rows of webbing and I do not think LBT makes anything like that.

Now if those 3/6 mag Insert's have the same "flaw" we are without mag pouches for the rig and will have to use the old pouches from the existing setups- different maker.

I wish I could send the Owner of LBT, some of our existing mag pouches and his past 6146A etc., pouches I have, with loaded HK, SIG, AK, etc., mags, so he can see first hand what I mean. In the hopes he designs more universal pouches without that "flaw."

I left out all the other the other MAS Grey pouches, i.e., handgun, GRG, etc., since they should all be readily available from LBT on a regular basis, until the next revision ban, to customers without our specific needs and likes. I believe the standard Hydro pouches that come with the real LBT MAS Grey kits are non-linar light weight 50 and 70 Oz, taking a guess, so they do not absorb more water, due to heavier fabric. So customers could acquire all those standard version pouches from LBT.


Good enough choice?

I would probably replace many of the existing LBT carriers all with this version.

Now a thing you might not like. Unlike the (RS) this has a mesh backing, so it may not result to be more cooling when worn.

I would have preferred the PC and optional Kit to all be in a 1000D or heavier grade fabric, so they last longer. But that may run contrary to the design intent of MAS Grey and its intended operating environment. After all, who am I to rock the boat, right?

Well, there you have it, If anything, like many of you, LBT should get a good laugh at their board meetings about this submission. I feel sorry for the employees having to suffer through all the email submissions like mine.


Status

Unknown, Under review. Remote chance. Your well wishes and support will obviously be appreciated.

Perhaps LBT will deny and or modify the request. To just select a MAS Grey version of the standard (RS) with or without some mini kit items they select. similar to what was offered with their 6094 DCU kit.

Unless the MODs lock or remove this post. I will try to bump this thread every so often, so it does not archive too soon. If I fail to make a timely bump, someone please do so.

When I receive a response from LBT, rather than making a new thread, I will try and edit this thread, if that is possible, for the benefit of the members here who may be interested. If not I will try and make a new thread if that will be acceptable to site staff.

The LBT-6146A construction, it shouldn't take a major redesign to change the top lip from the single fold inside to a double fold outside like the Tactical Tailor pouches, the top PALS row able to hide most of the off-color fabric backside.  This will allow your smooth draw of rear-lugged AKM, M14,  and H&K  or PMag G36 magazines.  

 Even if they ran single-fold 1" or 3/4" 5038 tape along the top lip, even that method can cause some hangups depending on spacing of single needle type folder and double-needle type folder to a lesser extent.

@ stoner63a

LBT-6146A:

With the other brand of single open topped pouch that have the lips folded out the correct way. I have thickened the bungee cord, to not snag so much on mag catch types during draw, like AUG sharp mag catch and mag side coupler stud slots on the sides of H&K G36 SIG 550 series.

The AUG for example also has a waffle cell design. If you tie a knot on the bungee behind the mag, the knot will serve as a ball bearing bulging from the rear fabric to lock the waffle mag in one of the cells. I also lengthen the bungee shock cord to tie elsewhere to address this to some degree and to allow longer 30rds SIG 550 mags, AUG 42rds etc.

I like the ideal thickest flexible bungee shock cord that will bounce off the AUG mag catch and H&K SIG mag coupler stud multipliers, and not interfere with the mag draw, as to restrict and make the pouch cell tight. With every mod we cause other problems so there is some learning curve.

Yes, LBT has tacos on their site, but I prefer other brand single shingles across the board, for carbine, handgun, etc., of the type we have been using with ideal mods.

I wish the S&SP plastic pull tabs were a bit longer to fill our finger better, for the side swipe, etc., but I'm sure LBT had their reasons.

Then we have the other problem, of placing pouches side by side or stacking and that can also restrict the mag cells on some rigs. I am not sure if LBT has lengthened the PALS loop slots from the original mil spec to address this potential issue.


As for the LBT-2645C and LBT-2645A:

I do not really use this type but felt they may be popular.I am not sure if the latest designs are snag free, suitable for thicker H&K SIG AUG etc or even will fit that 6094 kangaroo. The bungee length should be increased for taller mags and then we have the problem where to tie that ball bearing knot. Yes you can squeeze to depress the knot, but I prefer to tie it elsewhere. But on these two pouch styles, it requires some more mods.

Hopefully the top tier manufacturers can address these "issues" or should have with their initial R&D, to also satisfy the sportsmen and women on our end. engaged in such outdoor activities, etc.

They made me a custom embroidered 12x4 POLICE patch in MAS grey for $12 shipped...

Looks like LBT updated    Doug's Trench   with some new items.

Nothing of interest, yet. Prices are as expected.