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Posted: 10/16/2014 7:58:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
So I had a $15 dollar credit on Ebay and figured what the hell, why not put up another $15 and give the Condor Battle Belt a try-I figured this was a piece of gear that could give condor a try on. I started to load up the belt- an AR-15 mag and 2 Glock 17 mags in Esstac Kywi's at the 3 o'clock and a Serpa at the 9. With this weight alone the belt was taco-ing out over itself. This was disappointing as I was hoping to run additional items and was struggling with basics. I started out this experience with standard walmart weight bearing belt, and it flopped right over. Next I went for a SOE 1.5 ridged cobra belt- i believe this is the stiffest belt they offer-well it flopped right over. I also have tried my edc belt-5.11 dress belt, which pretty much can't bend and had the exact same results. Am I missing something here or does this belt just suck? Have any of you had experience with the condor and the HSGI or VTAC or any other "upper level" belt? I'm mainly looking for something that will stay where I put it with minimal to no movement, but I am interested in battle belts with integrated ballistic capabilities. Assuming this is your belt:http://www.condoroutdoor.com/Condor-241.aspx#, there are some options. First, some suspenders might help. Make sure that the suspenders you buy will attach properly to the belt. Next, you will want the widest, stiffest inner belt that will fit. After doing the above, if your belt still folds over, there is a simple and inexpensive cure, but it will take a little time and effort on your part. What you will be doing is sliding strips (or ideally, a single strip) of fairly thin plastic into the belt, in order to reinforce it. This strip (or strips) will lie underneath (inside of) the inner belt I would get enough plastic to make 2 layers if needed. The HDPE sheets can be had from Graingers, and I suggest buying 1/16" thick sheet, in black. Ideally, the strip which you would slide into the belt would be one piece, as wide as possible. If you must use multiple strips for some reason, then make sure they overlap a couple of inches. Make a template out of fairly thin cardboard (available at art/craft stores) to show you how to cut the plastic. Take your time with the template, and get it right; your end product's quality and fit are entirely dependent on the quality of your template. You will need tin snips or aviation/metal snips to cut the plastic. Forget about using normal household scissors. After the reinforcing strip is cut out and tested for fit, use some fine sandpaper to smooth out ALL the edges so that the plastic will not cut the nylon. Round-off any corners and sand them as well. NO sharp edges anywhere. As far as armored belts go, they can be had, but I advise buying both the belt and armor inserts from the same mfr so that you know that they will fit together properly. Mine is from Blue force Gear, but there are others. You will want suspenders with such a belt. The whole ensemble is not exactly cheap. |
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Posted: 10/16/2014 8:27:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Does this belt just suck? Short answer there is a resounding yes. I have the VTAC and suregrip. The suregrip is solid, very stiff, solid, will not move, and is solid. Pros: The neoprene does a great job of holding it in place no matter what. It is stiff and will not fold no matter what you hang on it. There is a lot of real estate to hang stuff on. very easy to attach drop leg anything to the inner belt. Cons: It is like a warm blanket wrapped around your guts. IF you want to attach a holster directly to your inner belt it has to be a drop loop like a safariland URL (I currently run one attached straight to the MOLLE and it's my primary rig). it's stiff and wide so you might have to work it a bit to function correctly with body armor. The VTAC is shorter/narrower than the HSGI and slightly lighter. Pros: Mesh inside for great ventilation, nice and cool. Less stiff and a little more comfortable. Lower profile and easier to use with body armor. easy to attach holsters directly to inner belt. Cons: Harder to lace inner belt. harder to attach a drop leg. less recalibrate to attach stuff on MOLLE (higher or lower) I like the HSGI more but wouldn't get rid of either. If I had to buy one it would probably be the HSGI. |
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Posted: 10/16/2014 9:47:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Short answer there is a resounding yes. I have the VTAC and suregrip. The suregrip is solid, very stiff, solid, will not move, and is solid. Pros: The neoprene does a great job of holding it in place no matter what. It is stiff and will not fold no matter what you hang on it. There is a lot of real estate to hang stuff on. very easy to attach drop leg anything to the inner belt. Cons: It is like a warm blanket wrapped around your guts. IF you want to attach a holster directly to your inner belt it has to be a drop loop like a safariland URL (I currently run one attached straight to the MOLLE and it's my primary rig). it's stiff and wide so you might have to work it a bit to function correctly with body armor. The VTAC is shorter/narrower than the HSGI and slightly lighter. Pros: Mesh inside for great ventilation, nice and cool. Less stiff and a little more comfortable. Lower profile and easier to use with body armor. easy to attach holsters directly to inner belt. Cons: Harder to lace inner belt. harder to attach a drop leg. less recalibrate to attach stuff on MOLLE (higher or lower) I like the HSGI more but wouldn't get rid of either. If I had to buy one it would probably be the HSGI. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Does this belt just suck? Short answer there is a resounding yes. I have the VTAC and suregrip. The suregrip is solid, very stiff, solid, will not move, and is solid. Pros: The neoprene does a great job of holding it in place no matter what. It is stiff and will not fold no matter what you hang on it. There is a lot of real estate to hang stuff on. very easy to attach drop leg anything to the inner belt. Cons: It is like a warm blanket wrapped around your guts. IF you want to attach a holster directly to your inner belt it has to be a drop loop like a safariland URL (I currently run one attached straight to the MOLLE and it's my primary rig). it's stiff and wide so you might have to work it a bit to function correctly with body armor. The VTAC is shorter/narrower than the HSGI and slightly lighter. Pros: Mesh inside for great ventilation, nice and cool. Less stiff and a little more comfortable. Lower profile and easier to use with body armor. easy to attach holsters directly to inner belt. Cons: Harder to lace inner belt. harder to attach a drop leg. less recalibrate to attach stuff on MOLLE (higher or lower) I like the HSGI more but wouldn't get rid of either. If I had to buy one it would probably be the HSGI. I really like the idea of it staying tight without much movement, but I don't see options for the suregrip and body armor inserts. What is the consensus on adding ballistic protection to these-worth the cost/weight? I realize it wouldn't do much vs. a rifle, but still seems like it could have its plusses. |
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Posted: 10/16/2014 9:58:03 PM EDT
[#4]
If you're looking at armored belts, I wouldn't buy a padded molle belt that didn't have the armoring characteristics from the get-go. It's going to be difficult to find custom soft armor to fit an HSGI suregrip padded belt.
Take a look at Crye's blast belt, TYR's Brokos, or BFG's SOC-C. I know that with CP's blast belt, you can purchase the belt first and then decide if you want soft armor. Top notch stuff. |
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Posted: 10/16/2014 10:11:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Outstanding comparison, thanks so much. So if I bought either of those, I wouldn't have the same "taco-ing" issue? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Outstanding comparison, thanks so much. So if I bought either of those, I wouldn't have the same "taco-ing" issue? No neither will TACO, the VTAC will "lean" a little with ESSTAC pouches if body armor pushes on them but you won't notice except in tacti-cool pictures. Quoted:
I would be running this belt inside, bravo concealment holster and mag pouches attached to molle and probably a med kit and dump pouch-probably no drop leg or any direct belt attachment. Yep, that's similar to what I'd recommend should work great. I run the Bravo RTT with both (need the MOLLE ATTATCHMENTs for the HSGI) Quoted:
I really like the idea of it staying tight without much movement, but I don't see options for the suregrip and body armor inserts. What is the consensus on adding ballistic protection to these-worth the cost/weight? I realize it wouldn't do much vs. a rifle, but still seems like it could have its plusses. You need to ask yourself what the threat is and how armor would be useful. Do you have a helmet? Shoulder protection? Lat protection or side plates? Leg armor? Groin protector? If you have all that you probably weigh an extra 120# with kit on and putting an armored belt on does what for you? Do you want to be able to maneuver or just sit there and get shot at? Waste of time IMHO but YMMV. Like the other poster said go with a different belt that's designed for armor if you want it. |
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Posted: 10/16/2014 10:29:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No neither will TACO, the VTAC will "lean" a little with ESSTAC pouches if body armor pushes on them but you won't notice except in tacti-cool pictures. Yep, that's similar to what I'd recommend should work great. I run the Bravo RTT with both (need the MOLLE ATTATCHMENTs for the HSGI) You need to ask yourself what the threat is and how armor would be useful. Do you have a helmet? Shoulder protection? Lat protection or side plates? Leg armor? Groin protector? If you have all that you probably weigh an extra 120# with kit on and putting an armored belt on does what for you? Do you want to be able to maneuver or just sit there and get shot at? Waste of time IMHO but YMMV. Like the other poster said go with a different belt that's designed for armor if you want it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Outstanding comparison, thanks so much. So if I bought either of those, I wouldn't have the same "taco-ing" issue? No neither will TACO, the VTAC will "lean" a little with ESSTAC pouches if body armor pushes on them but you won't notice except in tacti-cool pictures. Quoted:
I would be running this belt inside, bravo concealment holster and mag pouches attached to molle and probably a med kit and dump pouch-probably no drop leg or any direct belt attachment. Yep, that's similar to what I'd recommend should work great. I run the Bravo RTT with both (need the MOLLE ATTATCHMENTs for the HSGI) Quoted:
I really like the idea of it staying tight without much movement, but I don't see options for the suregrip and body armor inserts. What is the consensus on adding ballistic protection to these-worth the cost/weight? I realize it wouldn't do much vs. a rifle, but still seems like it could have its plusses. You need to ask yourself what the threat is and how armor would be useful. Do you have a helmet? Shoulder protection? Lat protection or side plates? Leg armor? Groin protector? If you have all that you probably weigh an extra 120# with kit on and putting an armored belt on does what for you? Do you want to be able to maneuver or just sit there and get shot at? Waste of time IMHO but YMMV. Like the other poster said go with a different belt that's designed for armor if you want it. I am waiting for an RTT, SNS and two sets of those adapter things to get here-been about 4 weeks so far. I don't have any armor besides a couple sets of plates and side plates, and I am planning on a helmet in the near future. I was thinking if I'm going to shell out for a good belt, I should consider going all in-I was under the impression that it would add maybe a pound or 2-I'm with you though, if it adds a ton of weight, it isn't worth it...especially since I'm more worried about higher ballistic threats. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 6:37:45 AM EDT
[#7]
What exactly do you mean by "taco-ing"?
I've got that same condor belt, and I've never had it turn into a taco. I have issues with battle belts in general due to having three inner belts fail, but I've never had a belt fill itself with seasoned beef, cheese, lettuce, and salsa. 
The Condor outer belt extends anywhere from 0.5" to 1" below the molle webbing, and in the back it's almost 2" high above the webbing, just with cloth padding. Nothing you do will make that rigid, and it's not supposed to be rigid. The inner belt is what gives you support, and I found that with a decent inner belt (bianchi and USGI) it's good enough for mounting a pistol to, though running a Safariland drop adapter on the inner belt works really well. 
I wouldn't worry too much about staying rigid for your mag pouches. When I ditched my Condor belt and went with a BFG BeltMinus I ended up with something fairly floppy that works just fine for hauling mags, first aid, etc.. If you decide to stick with a battle belt, add some suspenders. We've all heard "two is one...one is none", and a battle belt has a single belt buckle. I've had inner belts come un-buckled on me twice (dropping my gear on the ground as I was running). With suspenders added you at least have a secondary retention mechanism if the inner belt fails. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 7:22:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What exactly do you mean by "taco-ing"? I've got that same condor belt, and I've never had it turn into a taco. I have issues with battle belts in general due to having three inner belts fail, but I've never had a belt fill itself with seasoned beef, cheese, lettuce, and salsa. http://www.tacobell.com/static_files/TacoBell/StaticAssets/images/food/foodtypes/slider_tacos_fiery_2013.png The Condor outer belt extends anywhere from 0.5" to 1" below the molle webbing, and in the back it's almost 2" high above the webbing, just with cloth padding. Nothing you do will make that rigid, and it's not supposed to be rigid. The inner belt is what gives you support, and I found that with a decent inner belt (bianchi and USGI) it's good enough for mounting a pistol to, though running a Safariland drop adapter on the inner belt works really well. http://www.copsplus.com/products/large/6075ubl-2-2.jpg I wouldn't worry too much about staying rigid for your mag pouches. When I ditched my Condor belt and went with a BFG BeltMinus I ended up with something fairly floppy that works just fine for hauling mags, first aid, etc.. If you decide to stick with a battle belt, add some suspenders. We've all heard "two is one...one is none", and a battle belt has a single belt buckle. I've had inner belts come un-buckled on me twice (dropping my gear on the ground as I was running). With suspenders added you at least have a secondary retention mechanism if the inner belt fails. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 8:58:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
haha it's when a belt folds over on itself like a taco-have heard it other places, not sure if I have heard it here though. I'm running really good belts, so it shouldn't have this problem, the only thing I could see is maybe getting a 2 inch or wider belt, but the belt' I'm running inside is pretty good for battle belt applications so I think it's that it's condor. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What exactly do you mean by "taco-ing"? I've got that same condor belt, and I've never had it turn into a taco. I have issues with battle belts in general due to having three inner belts fail, but I've never had a belt fill itself with seasoned beef, cheese, lettuce, and salsa. http://www.tacobell.com/static_files/TacoBell/StaticAssets/images/food/foodtypes/slider_tacos_fiery_2013.png The Condor outer belt extends anywhere from 0.5" to 1" below the molle webbing, and in the back it's almost 2" high above the webbing, just with cloth padding. Nothing you do will make that rigid, and it's not supposed to be rigid. The inner belt is what gives you support, and I found that with a decent inner belt (bianchi and USGI) it's good enough for mounting a pistol to, though running a Safariland drop adapter on the inner belt works really well. http://www.copsplus.com/products/large/6075ubl-2-2.jpg I wouldn't worry too much about staying rigid for your mag pouches. When I ditched my Condor belt and went with a BFG BeltMinus I ended up with something fairly floppy that works just fine for hauling mags, first aid, etc.. If you decide to stick with a battle belt, add some suspenders. We've all heard "two is one...one is none", and a battle belt has a single belt buckle. I've had inner belts come un-buckled on me twice (dropping my gear on the ground as I was running). With suspenders added you at least have a secondary retention mechanism if the inner belt fails. I'm pretty sure the condor outer belt is designed to work with a 2" inner belt. That's what I was using at least, and the genuine condor-brand inner belts are also 2" (though they suck big time). The condor outer belts are 4" to 6" tall, all cloth. If you have a gut and try to snug that up real tight it will definitely going to "taco". It's designed to be padding that moves with you; it's not supposed to be rigid. If you look like this, you've probably got it too tight. 
Also you should really look into suspenders (or some secondary retention mechanism) with battle belts. Shit happens and all that. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 3:25:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm pretty sure the condor outer belt is designed to work with a 2" inner belt. That's what I was using at least, and the genuine condor-brand inner belts are also 2" (though they suck big time). The condor outer belts are 4" to 6" tall, all cloth. If you have a gut and try to snug that up real tight it will definitely going to "taco". It's designed to be padding that moves with you; it's not supposed to be rigid. If you look like this, you've probably got it too tight. http://www.highlightpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/gty_mans_tight_belt_big_waist_thg_120221_wmain.jpg Also you should really look into suspenders (or some secondary retention mechanism) with battle belts. Shit happens and all that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What exactly do you mean by "taco-ing"? I've got that same condor belt, and I've never had it turn into a taco. I have issues with battle belts in general due to having three inner belts fail, but I've never had a belt fill itself with seasoned beef, cheese, lettuce, and salsa. http://www.tacobell.com/static_files/TacoBell/StaticAssets/images/food/foodtypes/slider_tacos_fiery_2013.png The Condor outer belt extends anywhere from 0.5" to 1" below the molle webbing, and in the back it's almost 2" high above the webbing, just with cloth padding. Nothing you do will make that rigid, and it's not supposed to be rigid. The inner belt is what gives you support, and I found that with a decent inner belt (bianchi and USGI) it's good enough for mounting a pistol to, though running a Safariland drop adapter on the inner belt works really well. http://www.copsplus.com/products/large/6075ubl-2-2.jpg I wouldn't worry too much about staying rigid for your mag pouches. When I ditched my Condor belt and went with a BFG BeltMinus I ended up with something fairly floppy that works just fine for hauling mags, first aid, etc.. If you decide to stick with a battle belt, add some suspenders. We've all heard "two is one...one is none", and a battle belt has a single belt buckle. I've had inner belts come un-buckled on me twice (dropping my gear on the ground as I was running). With suspenders added you at least have a secondary retention mechanism if the inner belt fails. I'm pretty sure the condor outer belt is designed to work with a 2" inner belt. That's what I was using at least, and the genuine condor-brand inner belts are also 2" (though they suck big time). The condor outer belts are 4" to 6" tall, all cloth. If you have a gut and try to snug that up real tight it will definitely going to "taco". It's designed to be padding that moves with you; it's not supposed to be rigid. If you look like this, you've probably got it too tight. http://www.highlightpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/gty_mans_tight_belt_big_waist_thg_120221_wmain.jpg Also you should really look into suspenders (or some secondary retention mechanism) with battle belts. Shit happens and all that. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 5:13:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What exactly do you mean by "taco-ing"? I've got that same condor belt, and I've never had it turn into a taco. I have issues with battle belts in general due to having three inner belts fail, but I've never had a belt fill itself with seasoned beef, cheese, lettuce, and salsa. http://www.tacobell.com/static_files/TacoBell/StaticAssets/images/food/foodtypes/slider_tacos_fiery_2013.png The Condor outer belt extends anywhere from 0.5" to 1" below the molle webbing, and in the back it's almost 2" high above the webbing, just with cloth padding. Nothing you do will make that rigid, and it's not supposed to be rigid. The inner belt is what gives you support, and I found that with a decent inner belt (bianchi and USGI) it's good enough for mounting a pistol to, though running a Safariland drop adapter on the inner belt works really well. http://www.copsplus.com/products/large/6075ubl-2-2.jpg I wouldn't worry too much about staying rigid for your mag pouches. When I ditched my Condor belt and went with a BFG BeltMinus I ended up with something fairly floppy that works just fine for hauling mags, first aid, etc.. If you decide to stick with a battle belt, add some suspenders. We've all heard "two is one...one is none", and a battle belt has a single belt buckle. I've had inner belts come un-buckled on me twice (dropping my gear on the ground as I was running). With suspenders added you at least have a secondary retention mechanism if the inner belt fails. Try sticking more than airsoft pellets on it, or at least take it out of the basement, and you'll see what the issues are. Or in other words why do I want to wear a 2.5" belt that comes lose so often I have to wear suspenders then put a piece of padding around it, aka condor belt, so I have MOLLE? Suspenders have their place, I like to be able to take a crap without having to remove my belt in some situations but I've never witnessed one that acted as a safety for my belt. Back to the OP, let me know how you like the SNS once you get it. At 4 weeks you are really close I'm sure. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 6:02:21 PM EDT
[#12]
While I don't normally go pushing my mags out like that, I was able to do this very easily and exaggeratedly replicates approximately what they do when moving. Sea2summit- totally on the same page as far as requirements in a battle belt, and I can't wait to get my bravo stuff-it should go together nicely! |
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Posted: 10/19/2014 10:57:04 AM EDT
[#13]
so that^^ won't happen with the hsgi/tyr/bfgs?
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Posted: 10/19/2014 6:05:21 PM EDT
[#14]
No, tried to replicate your photo with my belts but I use tacos for my mags and they moved but the belts didn't.
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Posted: 10/19/2014 6:29:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Maybe get a thicker inner belt? Looks like you're tightening the belt down, and your handles are causing the taco.
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Posted: 10/19/2014 6:42:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/JustinMilne/media/photo_1_zpscb265998.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/JustinMilne/photo_1_zpscb265998.jpg</a> <a href="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/JustinMilne/media/photo_5_zps37eb90ef.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/JustinMilne/photo_5_zps37eb90ef.jpg</a> While I don't normally go pushing my mags out like that, I was able to do this very easily and exaggeratedly replicates approximately what they do when moving. Sea2summit- totally on the same page as far as requirements in a battle belt, and I can't wait to get my bravo stuff-it should go together nicely! Well, you should have bought a better-made belt, but I reckon you already know that by now. Your problem is that your belt has insufficient stiffening/material to resist rolling-over. You will need to add the stiffeners that the mfr left out. Mfr states that max internal width belt is 2". Even if you install the max width, stiffest belt possible, doing so will not solve your problem. Good news is that inexpensive HDPE inserts will solve the problem, and let you use current belt until you can afford a better one. See my post above. If you were local, I could have that belt up and running OK for 1/2 hour in time, and $5 in materials. But I have some HDPE on-hand, and I have worked with it in the past. Again, I suggest that you buy some HDPE sheet from Graingers and learn how to fix this problem on your own. You can use the skills/knowledge acquired in making frame sheets for any of the small packs you might own. IIRC you mentioned armor inserts for the belt. If memory serves, a top quality belt and suspenders goes for about $180, and armor panels from the same mfr are a good deal more. Unless on sale figure about $350-$400 or so. I got lucky a while back. BFG was selling their SOC-C belt kit for a very good sale price, and I called them and persuaded their CS guy to sell me the armor inserts at the same sale discount. That saved me a significant amount of money. Just for the asking. Install the HDPE inserts, and start saving. You'll have a workable belt in the meantime, and some skill you can use. |
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Posted: 10/19/2014 7:10:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/JustinMilne/media/photo_1_zpscb265998.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/JustinMilne/photo_1_zpscb265998.jpg</a> <a href="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/JustinMilne/media/photo_5_zps37eb90ef.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/JustinMilne/photo_5_zps37eb90ef.jpg</a> While I don't normally go pushing my mags out like that, I was able to do this very easily and exaggeratedly replicates approximately what they do when moving. Sea2summit- totally on the same page as far as requirements in a battle belt, and I can't wait to get my bravo stuff-it should go together nicely! I would also add your inner belt seems way too narrow, and has no real stiffness on it's own. A wider, stiffer, inner belt would help. |
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Posted: 10/19/2014 8:56:09 PM EDT
[#18]
You are wearing it to high, it supposed to ride on your hips not your kidneys.
There has been good reviews on the Blackhawk enhanced military web belt in the "show me your war belt" thread. |
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Posted: 10/19/2014 9:16:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, tried to replicate your photo with my belts but I use tacos for my mags and they moved but the belts didn't. Thanks for checking! As far as the inner belt it is a stiffened soe 1.5 inch belt-cost me more than the battle belt ironically, the inner belt is a quality belt...perhaps not optimum thickness, but it is ridged. It's not the love handles as it is not the taco'ing in the original picture, but the second one where I am pulling down as to replicate the weight of the mags while moving around. What size belts do you battle belts? |
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Posted: 10/19/2014 10:06:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Why do I--and others-- bother?
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Posted: 10/19/2014 10:40:51 PM EDT
[#21]
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Why do I--and others-- bother? Is this in regards to the inserts? I don't want to trust a belt that isn't what I need from the factory-it's like buying a gun that you have to machine yourself-some people might be skilled enough to do it, but I wouldn't trust the piece of equipment or my workmanship under the stress that I would want it to preform under. Nearly every other battle belt I see is running what appears a 1.5 inch cobra belt...inner belts which are less riged than the one I'm using. This shouldn't be any different and the fact that it is messing up isn't acceptable for my uses. I'm shelving it and buying what I should have done all along-It's not worth the stress over getting my $15 bucks back. I appreciate very much that you took the time to detail the process of explaining it, I just need it to work out of the box. At this point I just want to find out what is causing the problem so that I can make damn sure that the next belt I buy doesn't have the same problem. Is there an issue running a 1.5 inch belt? Or is it just the lack of stiffness on the battle belt itself? Or is it something else? |
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Posted: 10/19/2014 10:43:49 PM EDT
[#22]
How exactly are those mag carriers attached???
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Posted: 10/19/2014 10:49:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How exactly are those mag carriers attached??? Malice clips |
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Posted: 10/19/2014 11:55:15 PM EDT
[#24]
I guess I don't get the point of this thread. We've already established Condor sucks. No surprise their battle belt is no exception. Cheap is cheap.
You already want a different belt. Plenty of input from members on belts by other gear manufacturers. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 8:16:24 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Malice clips Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How exactly are those mag carriers attached??? Malice clips Are they woven through the molle webbing correctly? Just asking because they don't appear to be. If they are just ran through the back, then what your seeing makes sense. If not, then its perplexing because the malice clips alone should not allow that to happen. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 12:38:57 PM EDT
[#26]
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Are they woven through the molle webbing correctly? Just asking because they don't appear to be. If they are just ran through the back, then what your seeing makes sense. If not, then its perplexing because the malice clips alone should not allow that to happen. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How exactly are those mag carriers attached??? Malice clips Are they woven through the molle webbing correctly? Just asking because they don't appear to be. If they are just ran through the back, then what your seeing makes sense. If not, then its perplexing because the malice clips alone should not allow that to happen. It's on the properly threaded way and doesn't seem to loose at the connection but I can take more detailed pictures after work to show you Quoted: I guess I don't get the point of this thread. We've already established Condor sucks. No surprise their battle belt is no exception. Cheap is cheap. You already want a different belt. Plenty of input from members on belts by other gear manufacturers. The point
If the answer was yes, it's just the condor, then you would be correct and there's no point further discussing as it is clear the belt sucks and there are better, what I don't know and am still trying to ascertain is is there something else causing the issue in conjunction with a crappy belt? For example if I get a brokos belt-can I run the same inner belt it it or do I have to get some other belt? I'm happy with paying more even a lot ore for something that works, but I don't want to dump 300 on one only to have the same thing happen. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 1:21:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Do you want us to hold your hand, too?
We've already suggested the following: -Inner belt is too small at 1.5". -Padded belt is not stiff enough. -Too much material outside causing the outer webbing to sag (i.e. belt construction is bad). No matter how tight or stiff the inner belt, the outside material will always sag. Raf took time to try and explain how to get the belt stiff, but you're not even willing to try out his suggestion, so why should we help troubleshoot this issue when you're already looking at getting another belt? Look at your own pictures. Your inner belt is low compared to the rest of your battle belt. This is caused by excess room in the belt sleeve, which encourages up and down play. It also looks really tight on you, and whatever fat you squeezed around to snap the cobra is spilling out of the top. Because there aren't any belt stiffeners, and the material is thin, the tight inner belt is what's carrying the load instead of the padded belt. The cobra buckle is straining for Pete's sake. The padded belt is not (cannot) resting flat. I'm sure the construction of the belt is shitty, and like I've already pointed out, the outer webbing sleeve is too loose with extra material, causing any loads to sag. If the belt could actually rest flat on your body, does the load sag? In other words, load up your belt and lift it up around your hips without snapping together the cobra. Try and get it to rest flat. If the load is already sagging, then the construction of the belt is most likely the problem. I've never had this problem with the HSGI belt, the cheap USMC/Propper belt, Crye blast belt, or Eagle Industries padded operator belt. With the HSGI belt, they suggest a 1.75" inner belt, but the padded belt also has a removable stiffener sheet. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 3:38:47 PM EDT
[#28]
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<a href="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/JustinMilne/media/photo_1_zpscb265998.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/JustinMilne/photo_1_zpscb265998.jpg</a> <a href="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/JustinMilne/media/photo_5_zps37eb90ef.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/JustinMilne/photo_5_zps37eb90ef.jpg</a> While I don't normally go pushing my mags out like that, I was able to do this very easily and exaggeratedly replicates approximately what they do when moving. Sea2summit- totally on the same page as far as requirements in a battle belt, and I can't wait to get my bravo stuff-it should go together nicely! There's a wholelotta WTF in that pic. You ask for advice, but don't seem to get what everyone is telling you, so allow me to lay it out for you by the numbers, and hopefully you have thick skin and see that we are really trying to help you. 1. First things first...buy a BDU trouser belt. Not a goddamn dress belt from TJ Maxx 2. Buy an inner belt AT LEAST 1.75" wide, and you'll want to look only at those that come with a stiffener sewn such as HDPE sewn in. Riggers belts and some some small, EDC 1.5" "cobra" belts WILL NOT be the remedy you need to fix this issue. Ditch the expensive cobra buckle option and just get a 2" duty belt from SOE, Tactical Tailor, or HSGI (not Condor, Voodoo Tactical, or 5.11) 3. The Condor belt in and of itself sucks - you now understand why. The material is not stiff enough, nor it there any inner velcro to secure the inner belt, that is why you are seeing the battle belt ride up and ultimately flop over. 4. Buy a battle belt that actually fits you a little better (but this is more than a little personal to each of us - some like the way you have yours fitted). I can't help but think the way you have that belt cinched up must really be painful. How are you gonna shoot an move wearing that contraption. 5. Lastly, get a proper pouch for that light thing-a-ma-bob. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 6:09:48 PM EDT
[#29]
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There's a wholelotta WTF in that pic. You ask for advice, but don't seem to get what everyone is telling you, so allow me to lay it out for you by the numbers, and hopefully you have thick skin and see that we are really trying to help you. 1. First things first...buy a BDU trouser belt. Not a goddamn dress belt from TJ Maxx 2. Buy an inner belt AT LEAST 1.75" wide, and you'll want to look only at those that come with a stiffener sewn such as HDPE sewn in. Riggers belts and some some small, EDC 1.5" "cobra" belts WILL NOT be the remedy you need to fix this issue. Ditch the expensive cobra buckle option and just get a 2" duty belt from SOE, Tactical Tailor, or HSGI (not Condor, Voodoo Tactical, or 5.11) 3. The Condor belt in and of itself sucks - you now understand why. The material is not stiff enough, nor it there any inner velcro to secure the inner belt, that is why you are seeing the battle belt ride up and ultimately flop over. 4. Buy a battle belt that actually fits you a little better (but this is more than a little personal to each of us - some like the way you have yours fitted). I can't help but think the way you have that belt cinched up must really be painful. How are you gonna shoot an move wearing that contraption. 5. Lastly, get a proper pouch for that light thing-a-ma-bob. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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<a href="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/JustinMilne/media/photo_1_zpscb265998.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/JustinMilne/photo_1_zpscb265998.jpg</a> <a href="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/JustinMilne/media/photo_5_zps37eb90ef.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/JustinMilne/photo_5_zps37eb90ef.jpg</a> While I don't normally go pushing my mags out like that, I was able to do this very easily and exaggeratedly replicates approximately what they do when moving. Sea2summit- totally on the same page as far as requirements in a battle belt, and I can't wait to get my bravo stuff-it should go together nicely! There's a wholelotta WTF in that pic. You ask for advice, but don't seem to get what everyone is telling you, so allow me to lay it out for you by the numbers, and hopefully you have thick skin and see that we are really trying to help you. 1. First things first...buy a BDU trouser belt. Not a goddamn dress belt from TJ Maxx 2. Buy an inner belt AT LEAST 1.75" wide, and you'll want to look only at those that come with a stiffener sewn such as HDPE sewn in. Riggers belts and some some small, EDC 1.5" "cobra" belts WILL NOT be the remedy you need to fix this issue. Ditch the expensive cobra buckle option and just get a 2" duty belt from SOE, Tactical Tailor, or HSGI (not Condor, Voodoo Tactical, or 5.11) 3. The Condor belt in and of itself sucks - you now understand why. The material is not stiff enough, nor it there any inner velcro to secure the inner belt, that is why you are seeing the battle belt ride up and ultimately flop over. 4. Buy a battle belt that actually fits you a little better (but this is more than a little personal to each of us - some like the way you have yours fitted). I can't help but think the way you have that belt cinched up must really be painful. How are you gonna shoot an move wearing that contraption. 5. Lastly, get a proper pouch for that light thing-a-ma-bob. 1. Will do 2. is a stiffened SOE belt-so it doesn't matter what it is since it's 1.5? 3. Totally Agree 4. Yeah, I think it might be a little small, and no it's not comfy like that, but it flops over even more it it isn't tight tight tight. 5. I placed an order for Bravo Concealment holster mag and light pouches 4+ weeks ago, just waiting for it to ship so in the future, wide inner belt with stiffners and velcro with a cyre/tyr/hsgi and I should be rid of this |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 11:40:28 PM EDT
[#30]
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1. Will do 2. is a stiffened SOE belt-so it doesn't matter what it is since it's 1.5? (nope...you really need a 2" wide inner belt) 3. Totally Agree 4. Yeah, I think it might be a little small, and no it's not comfy like that, but it flops over even more it it isn't tight tight tight. 5. I placed an order for Bravo Concealment holster mag and light pouches 4+ weeks ago, just waiting for it to ship so in the future, wide inner belt with stiffners and velcro with a cyre/tyr/hsgi and I should be rid of this Quote HistoryQuoted:
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<a href="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/JustinMilne/media/photo_1_zpscb265998.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/JustinMilne/photo_1_zpscb265998.jpg</a> <a href="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/JustinMilne/media/photo_5_zps37eb90ef.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/JustinMilne/photo_5_zps37eb90ef.jpg</a> While I don't normally go pushing my mags out like that, I was able to do this very easily and exaggeratedly replicates approximately what they do when moving. Sea2summit- totally on the same page as far as requirements in a battle belt, and I can't wait to get my bravo stuff-it should go together nicely! There's a wholelotta WTF in that pic. You ask for advice, but don't seem to get what everyone is telling you, so allow me to lay it out for you by the numbers, and hopefully you have thick skin and see that we are really trying to help you. 1. First things first...buy a BDU trouser belt. Not a goddamn dress belt from TJ Maxx 2. Buy an inner belt AT LEAST 1.75" wide, and you'll want to look only at those that come with a stiffener sewn such as HDPE sewn in. Riggers belts and some some small, EDC 1.5" "cobra" belts WILL NOT be the remedy you need to fix this issue. Ditch the expensive cobra buckle option and just get a 2" duty belt from SOE, Tactical Tailor, or HSGI (not Condor, Voodoo Tactical, or 5.11) 3. The Condor belt in and of itself sucks - you now understand why. The material is not stiff enough, nor it there any inner velcro to secure the inner belt, that is why you are seeing the battle belt ride up and ultimately flop over. 4. Buy a battle belt that actually fits you a little better (but this is more than a little personal to each of us - some like the way you have yours fitted). I can't help but think the way you have that belt cinched up must really be painful. How are you gonna shoot an move wearing that contraption. 5. Lastly, get a proper pouch for that light thing-a-ma-bob. 1. Will do 2. is a stiffened SOE belt-so it doesn't matter what it is since it's 1.5? (nope...you really need a 2" wide inner belt) 3. Totally Agree 4. Yeah, I think it might be a little small, and no it's not comfy like that, but it flops over even more it it isn't tight tight tight. 5. I placed an order for Bravo Concealment holster mag and light pouches 4+ weeks ago, just waiting for it to ship so in the future, wide inner belt with stiffners and velcro with a cyre/tyr/hsgi and I should be rid of this Now you got the idea! Good luck with your soon-to-have updates! 
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Posted: 10/21/2014 9:06:21 PM EDT
[#31]
FWIW, I just examined my BFG battle belt (with soft armor inserts) and tried to replicate your folding-over issue.
The belt came with an included 2" wide internal belt, but that internal belt was simple, single layer, un-stiffened webbing. IOW, almost zero additional stiffness added by the internal belt. I could NOT replicate your problem no matter how hard I used my hands to fold-over the belt. Maybe some full-retard ape might do so, but not me. Install the stiffeners, and save up. Best of luck to you |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 9:19:08 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
but I don't really have a gut, and it's the sides that are bothering me-it's the weight if the holster and mags folding the belt over on itself. I will get pics up later today to try and demonstrate what's happening. Quote HistoryQuoted:
but I don't really have a gut, and it's the sides that are bothering me-it's the weight if the holster and mags folding the belt over on itself. I will get pics up later today to try and demonstrate what's happening. Quoted:
<a href="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/JustinMilne/media/photo_1_zpscb265998.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/JustinMilne/photo_1_zpscb265998.jpg</a> <a href="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/JustinMilne/media/photo_5_zps37eb90ef.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/JustinMilne/photo_5_zps37eb90ef.jpg</a> I hate to burst your bubble, but as one fatass to another, you've got a gut...and you're wearing that belt way to high. It should be on top of your pants belt. I'll try to throw some shit on my old condor belt and take some pictures after work. Currently it's got zero pouches on it because it sucked and I gave up on it. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 9:52:16 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/JustinMilne/media/photo_1_zpscb265998.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/JustinMilne/photo_1_zpscb265998.jpg</a> <a href="http://s282.photobucket.com/user/JustinMilne/media/photo_5_zps37eb90ef.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/JustinMilne/photo_5_zps37eb90ef.jpg</a> While I don't normally go pushing my mags out like that, I was able to do this very easily and exaggeratedly replicates approximately what they do when moving. Sea2summit- totally on the same page as far as requirements in a battle belt, and I can't wait to get my bravo stuff-it should go together nicely! Don't mean any disrespect, but: 1. Pull your pants up to your waist, If it doesn't come up high enough it's too small for you. 2. The Battle Belt is too high, needs to move down to your waist. 3. The inner belt is not stiff enough and can not properly support the weight of the gear! There are many good choices, pick one. 4. Regardless of all of the above and any type of Battle Belt you use, your stomach and waist will push the top and the bottom out and it will "Taco out". Do some crunches and loose the belly! For a young guy it's unacceptable! 5. All belts require a flat surface to ride on, so if (#4) doesn't work, move the condor belt to the top of your belly or all the way down to the flat part of your waist. It's not optimal but it will set "more" flat. Again, no disrespect just stating the facts. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 2:59:03 PM EDT
[#34]
Damn. Even my $15 Blackhawk belt doesn't do that.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 4:40:52 PM EDT
[#35]
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Damn. Even my $15 Blackhawk belt doesn't do that. According to most of these folks that must mean your not fat not that the belt is any good. I think most of the posters are going way overboard on blaming the OP and not enough on the belt. Be fun to see most of you guys' body composition. Bummer this turned into a poop show OP 
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Posted: 10/23/2014 7:08:43 PM EDT
[#36]
I can't beleive I'm posting this, but...
This was just thrown together quick. It's a Condor outer "battle" belt, Condor double pistol mag pouch, and I think a Condor inner belt. Inner belt may be VISM (NcStar/Leaper's gear line) but I'm pretty sure it's Condor. The two mags shown are two loaded S&W M&P 17-round mags with X-Grips loaded with Hornady 105gr Critical Defense rounds. Mag side: 
Empty side: 
(Yes, the shirt is loose) No significant "taco"ing, though I'm sure if I grabbed it and tried I could get it to mold into a weird shape. The extra strap on the front was an experiment I tried to add a secondary retention mechanism in case the main belt buckle failed...I gave up and bought a Blue Force Gear BeltMinus when they were available for $35 on Amazon... Also, just because you CAN wear it way too damn high as a bra doesn't mean you should... 
That Condor/VISM/Whatever inner belt is a piece of shit...think limp noodle, but as long as you don't try to over-tighten it so that your fat shoves the belt out of the way you don't "taco". I can't believe we're having a discussion this stupid outside of GD. Tech forums have gone downhill big time... |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:28:59 PM EDT
[#37]
Lose weight then buy a $6 surplus Alice web belt to use as the inner belt.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 10:22:41 PM EDT
[#38]
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Lose weight then buy a $6 surplus Alice web belt to use as the inner belt. There are things to go cheap on....your primary load bearing piece of kit is not one of them. |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 8:55:43 AM EDT
[#39]
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There are things to go cheap on....your primary load bearing piece of kit is not one of them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lose weight then buy a $6 surplus Alice web belt to use as the inner belt. There are things to go cheap on....your primary load bearing piece of kit is not one of them. It's also worth mentioning a huge amount of the "ALICE" gear on the market these days is Chinese knock-offs built from inferior materials with crappy QC. I wouldn't trust it for anything serious. |
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