So should you get a set of ceramic plates AND a set of ar500 plates?

Throw the ar500 plates in your rig and dick off it in run it over with your truck and all your do your tactacool playing/training in them.


Use the ceramic plates when SHTF.


Right?

Or am i making a critical error in this plan?

No issues training in your composite / ceramic plates they don't break as easy as most people think.

Or if you really want training plates just pick the Team Wendy ones up

Why get the training plates over the ar500 ones?

Glad op posted this I was just thinking about posting this same topic today

You killed my thread shame on you....

As much I hate on steel, they do have a place. Training is one of those places. Living in the trunk of a car in a hot weather environment as an emergency rig is another.

Ceramics are better, but you can get a full set of steel for cheaper. If you have the money, get ceramic.

Good plan. You can get steel plates and a carrier for $200 and not feel guilty for throwing it around and abusing it. As you get some more cash get a better carrier and ceramics for oh shit use. Then you have a spare set of armor for the wife or a friend.

Look at it like night-vision. Buy a used PVS7 for $1000 and after a while buy a nice $3-4k nice unit. You can use those 7s as loaners.

Ceramic plates are def superior to steel. They are more durable than people think, people hear ceramic and think of a fragile china te cup but boron carbide is one of the hardest materials on the planet. If ceramic rifles plates broke every time a solider went prone or rolled over the military would not use them.

I personally don't bother with training plates but I'm not that rough on them. If you wanto train as realistically as possibly get replica sapi plates for training, they are the same size and weight, steel would weigh a lot more, be thinner and just feel very different. But if you're into prepping getting the steel plates for training would give you a back up set incase the ceramic are damaged in combat or you need to arm a friend.

I have steel for now.

Until I can afford night vision, I'll be running steel plates.

What's your budget, scope and schedule (time you need to save up and acquire (x) type of plates)?



 

I've never even seen a broken SAPI ceramic plate without serious bodily harm inflicted on the wearer (yes I count the broken ribs after the plate stopped rounds to be serious bodily harm). They're designed for modern kinetic combat in countries where the ambient temperature tops 130 regularly, and sometimes 140. They are designed to be worn jumping over walls, falling down, conducting Airborne operations, and general rough handling, not sitting in a foxhole. There is NOTHING you could do during training aside from getting shot  or maybe falling out of a tall building that will damage your plates enough to warrant a second set of plates.

If you need concealable rifle plates steel is hard to beat if they are from a reputable manufacturer, in a good cut, and the coating is not too thick. Even the thinnest ceramics have trouble competing with them when it comes to thinness and concealability, and HDPE? Not even close. That and durable accessory plates for areas where ceramics would get thrashed are probly the two niches where it's worthwhile to look at steel plates. Obviously they can be used for training to, but there are other ways to skin that cat so I wouldnt say steel is at the top of the list there.

I'm surprised it took this long to get the correct answer. If you're training that damn hard you're going to be what gets broken first. Steel is fine if you can't justify the cost of ceramic plates or are one of the tards that throws his armor out of the top of an mrap onto a concrete floor.

I have seen at least 3 peoples plates that cracked (mainly on the corners) from general use. One of those was because the vest was sitting on a ramp and then fell off...maybe 2 feet onto hard concrete.

How often do .mil get new plates?

When we break or lose the old ones. Or an upgrade is issued. Or after a recall. I got new ones each deployment.

They do break but it takes a lot of force and/or negligence. The plates are supposed to be inspected regularly by the individual for cracks or holes in the outer lining. You basically roll it on a flat surface and listen for crunching noises. They also should be xrayed before and after a deployment.

If they cant be damaged from normal usage then the Mil would not have to do all that.
They can get micro cracks in them from normal usage that COULD affect there performance, that's why the mil do what they do.
So if i'm going to spend 900-1500 o a  set of plates i don' t want to possibly mess them up dicking off in them, that's why i think a set of steel plates would be a nice investment, i also get a 2nd set of loner plates i can hand out if i want and not have to think about them getting messed up.

Unless you're getting the really lightweight ceramics, you don't have to spend $900+.  The midwest guardian lvl IVs aren't a lot more expensive than steel in 10x12, or some of the others (highcom, tyr) when on sale.  I'm in good shape, but the weight savings was fairly important to me since I had to go with large plates.  My large sapi-cut paraclete plates from Tyr are around 7.5-8 lbs each where a steel plate with antispall coating in the same size would have been 12+ lbs from what I've read when people weight them here.  I would suggest getting some locals to let you try on their rigs and see what you feel like you can handle.  

First thing I did when I got my plates was to fill up my carrier with them and do a long workout in them.  I could tell it was there, no doubt, but I could bear it.  For the record I felt like a turtle that had been flipped when I was on my back in armor.  The pullups were the biggest bitch since they were chest to bar with around 20lbs of extra weight hanging off me!

No one said they can't get damaged. But the possibility is low. And you shouldn't be dicking around in them. You're likely not putting the kind of stress on your plates at the same rate that PVT Joe Sixpack does when he's dodging gunfire or in a training cycle. I'd bet your average use is different than a direct action oriented individual and they're plates still work. There are a lot of other factors too like weight, recalls, contracts, vendors and costs that are different from you to the Army. You can do whatever you want but understand there are trade offs and you shouldn't try to convince yourself that steel is better than ceramic. Theres a reason you don't see many departments or agencies that issue steel. I've seen steel plates fail to stop threats they should have stopped or get rusty. I've seen ceramic plates take multiple hits from 7.62x54R and my buddy is still with us. But so fucking what? Some other plate got dropped from 2 feet and shattered apparently. I never understood the desire to abuse gear. I guess I'm different. I clean my gear after I use it. I don't dive onto rough surfaces if I can avoid it or throw my plates around and I generally don't just toss my gun into the vehicle or on the ground. I've rarely broken anything that didn't involve me getting tossed around, during a fight or blown up. Take care of your gear and it'll be there when you need it. Do you actually own plates and have experience with them or are you just saying things you've heard other people say?

All good words but I'm wondering something. Since ceramic plates are ablative, and are porous, wouldn't one of the issues of storing them be with humidity + heat? Namely, getting them wet (even from the air) and hot, letting the water seep in then expand in the heat, exerting pressure against the plate as it expanded? That's the only reason why I can think that you'd need to get them X-rayed regularly, since if enough of an internal crack developed, it would lose its ablative property.

Alumina Oxide is formed under intense heat. Ceramic tiles start out as a chalky substance that is pressed to thickness using a decently high amount of pressure, then cut to shape. The cut is usually done with a waterjet.

The pressed material is then fired in a special oven at temperatures well above what would melt iron (in excess of 2000F). The tile carts and inner lining of the oven are typically thick graphite, since anything else would melt like butter to a blowtorch.

During the firing process, the Al2O3 vitrifies, making it almost completely non-porous. Being ablative (I would argue Al2O3 is only partially ablative when talking ballistics, but that's another topic) has nothing to do with being porous. Ablative properties, which may or may not apply to a material, depending on the type of energy ablation and the circumstances of the energy dispersion, are not causative to porousness.

Just the ovens to cook Al2O3 in any useful quantity can easily exceed a million dollars each. Forming hot-pressed boron carbide is a much, much more complicated and expensive process.

Short version: water and heat is not a threat to ceramic components used in armor. It has no effect. It is a threat to some backing components but not all of them, although the degree of threat is secondary to damage that can be caused by UV rays. Anything that includes "poly" in it's name or involves a resin is vulnerable to UV rays, including every type of liner used to coat steel plates.

My buddies unit vacuum seals em

what price do you give your life?

Im just asking/stating it would be a nice plan to get a nice set of ceramics and a set of steel.

Your not likely to EVER break/chip/fracture a set of steel plates training/playing soldier, like you could possibly do with your high end ceramics plates. i'm in no way saying one is better than the other its just a known fact you CAN mess up your high end plates if you do enough dicking off in them.