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Posted: 3/3/2017 5:22:51 PM EDT
[#1]
I've had a Silver Pigeon. Highly recommended. Also a Franchise, want to say it was an Alcione? Workable.
I wouldn't get a CZ. Brownings are nice but heavy. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 5:48:20 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm partial to Berettas myself. But Berettas fit me and feel right. Brownings feel like a club to me, but I've not hefted a 725 which is a different receiver, lower profile, than the rest of the Citori line.
I have a 686 that I bought in the mid 80's that is still doing fine. I don't use it a lot - mostly a field gun. Any of the 68x series are good to go. I'm leary of the Beretta 690 series though, There have been some issues with a couple design changes from the 680 series. Can't say much about the others. I've read some 'meh' reviews on the Benelli (expensive for what you're getting) Properly maintained, lubed, etc a 68x series Beretta will last several lifetimes of normal use. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 6:20:21 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 3/3/2017 7:34:44 PM EDT
[#4]
The Silver Pigeon is easily the most common and most proven out of the guns you listed.
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Posted: 3/3/2017 7:58:01 PM EDT
[#5]
If I ever buy an O/U it will be a Beretta, probably a Silver Pidgeon. Nothing wrong with the Brownings either they just don't feel as right as the Beretta to me. The Franchis look and feel nice but we had to send several back with broken parts so the durability is questionable in my view (this was about 10-15 years ago when I worked at a gun store so they may have gotten better. It was primarily firing pins IIRC.)
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Posted: 3/3/2017 8:05:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Strolled into 5 different LGS's this week and finally found a 12ga O/U in the $1000ish range. It was either a lower end Stoeger or a few high end Benellis/Berettas, above $2500. Not many choices at all for some reason. Decided on a Franchi Instinct SL and put 80 target shells through it today. Bought it mostly for sporting, not hunting, even though its likely designed more for carrying vs sporting aka banging away at clays over and over. Very nice 4.5lb triggers, auto safety, selectable barrels, red fiber optic "bead", external/extended chokes, awesome wood and checkering, fit and finish is great, 7 yr warranty. Made in Italy under Benelli umbrella.
The most noticeable is that its crazy light weight at about 5.5lbs iirc, and handles and points great. It was hard to believe I was holding a full sized 12ga with 28" barrels! It has an aluminum receiver, hence the L in SL I suppose (for "light"). There's the Instinct S which is apparently the same, but has a stainless receiver and is heavier, or I should say closer to the normal O/U 12ga with 28" barrels at about 1lb heavier - still light weight imo I didn't notice any excessive recoil or kick at all. I'm glad I ignored the usual logic that light weight shotguns produce too much recoil. If I were doing clays every month or weekly, the S may be a better choice, which still isn't considered heavy. Not sure what other differences there are between the S and SL. Should be able to get an SL for 1300-1400, vs the msrp of 1700 or so. Some of their O/U's have color hardened receivers, which is a bonus and they look great imo, without looking "fabulous" lol. eta - I'm only putting 2 3/4" shells through it, not 3". |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 9:17:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Looking at entering the higher-end O/U game. I've narrowed it down to the following based on reputation and history alone (obviously they have to fit in the end): 1) Benelli 828u 2) Browning Cynergy CX 3) Beretta Silver Pigeon 4) Franchi Instinct SL 5ish) Some of CZ's new offerings look nice....anyone have any experience with them? I know they're Huglus but I care less about name recognition than others. Anyone have any input on these shotguns? All would be in 12GA, 28" or longer barrels. You missed one. There is an FN , Belgium built Winchester. They are very nice and depending what grade, under 2000.00. Don't discount some older guns Browning Superposed, solid gun, you can spend as much as you want. Look for something built early 60s to pre war. Ithaca SKB, bulletproof. Stay away from modern Turkish guns, they are NOT high end ! |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 10:33:19 PM EDT
[#8]
I love my Beretta Silver Pigeon 1 Sporting. Awesome gun.
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Posted: 3/4/2017 1:30:18 AM EDT
[#9]
I like the citiri line myself, but any of the B guns are great. Stay away from the cz garbage
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Posted: 3/4/2017 1:48:42 AM EDT
[#10]
I've got a silver pigeon my dad got from Beretta when they were sponsoring him, it's pretty stellar. The gun I shoot best is a Perazzi Grande Italia that my dad bought 3rd hand in the early 80s. He sold it to me a few years ago for a fair deal at $1800. I think at the sub-$2000 level you cant beat a 30yr old perazzi thats been treated well.
Another fine vintage OU are the Charles Daly guns. Forget what you know of the failed AR based resurrection of Charles Daly. Their shotguns were excellent. My favorite, and I have 2, are their copies of the browning citori made in japan by Miroku. Miroku was also making guns for browning in those years, they are excellent and they can be had for peanuts. The wide ribbed "broadway" models are the most desireable and an excellent example would be well below $1000. |
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Posted: 3/6/2017 1:41:55 AM EDT
[#11]
I am very happy with my Browning Citori White Lightning. It's the 20 gauge version. It's the sleekest, fastest handling of my upland bird guns. They come in 12 gauge, too.
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Posted: 3/6/2017 1:54:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Can't go wrong with either Beretta or Browning. My experience is that I've seen more Brownings with issues than Beretta's, but both are extremely reliable.
Franchi is a budget brand, fit and finish are not great and neither is QC. |
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Posted: 3/6/2017 11:58:29 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am very happy with my Browning Citori White Lightning. It's the 20 gauge version. It's the sleekest, fastest handling of my upland bird guns. They come in 12 gauge, too. Brownings are good guns but are much heavier than a Beretta of the same gauge. Or rather they are slightly heavier and feel much heavier. For the record if I could afford the ammo I would only shoot 28ga for skeet. |
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Posted: 3/6/2017 11:59:08 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Franchi is a budget brand, fit and finish are not great and neither is QC. Agree... but they are the cheapest O/U that makes sense. |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 8:53:41 AM EDT
[#15]
I have 2 CZ Redheads, a 26" 12 gauge and a 28" .410. Love them both!
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Posted: 3/7/2017 10:37:57 AM EDT
[#16]
For those that have said CZ/Huglus are no good, could you please provide reasoning?
Additionally, does anyone have any hands on experience with the Cynergy CX? What about Franchi isn't up to par with the other manufacturers? I believe I've eliminated the Citori from the running (unless I find one for stupid cheap) as I don't really enjoy their handling characteristics...seem big and clunky |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 12:29:13 PM EDT
[#17]
I have handled multiple CZs. They are local to me, I know the owner of CZ USA and have shot clays multiple times with their various offerings.
Their shotguns are not made by CZ, they are made in Turkey. Their O/Us have consistently terrible triggers (loooooong travel, 15+ lb trigger pulls, and gritty, inconsistent break). The internals are not hardened like higher quality shotguns (Beretta, Browning, etc), and wear out faster. The barrels are often not indexed properly, resulting in varying points of impact. There is a reason why the CZ shotgun pro (a great guy, BTW) shoots a CZ pump in clays competitions. With enough custom trigger work, their pumps are decent guns. Not so much their O/Us and semi autos. If CZ ever decided to bring their shotguns manufacturing in-house, I suspect that the quality would eventually approach that of their pistols and rifles. But as it is, they are targeting the budget shooter who either won't shoot their guns much, or simply arent discerning enough to care about the quality problems, or perhaps cannot even tell the difference. |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 2:01:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have handled multiple CZs. They are local to me, I know the owner of CZ USA and have shot clays multiple times with their various offerings. Their shotguns are not made by CZ, they are made in Turkey. Their O/Us have consistently terrible triggers (loooooong travel, 15+ lb trigger pulls, and gritty, inconsistent break). The internals are not hardened like higher quality shotguns (Beretta, Browning, etc), and wear out faster. The barrels are often not indexed properly, resulting in varying points of impact. There is a reason why the CZ shotgun pro (a great guy, BTW) shoots a CZ pump in clays competitions. With enough custom trigger work, their pumps are decent guns. Not so much their O/Us and semi autos. If CZ ever decided to bring their shotguns manufacturing in-house, I suspect that the quality would eventually approach that of their pistols and rifles. But as it is, they are targeting the budget shooter who either won't shoot their guns much, or simply arent discerning enough to care about the quality problems, or perhaps cannot even tell the difference. This is the definitive answer I was looking for. Thanks so much for taking the time to educate us! I will point out that I own a CZ 912 and it is a very nice shotgun for the money I paid for it. That being said, I did have a hammer fracture after about 1000 rounds. CZ replaced it of course, but that shouldn't happen. Anyone have any opinions on the Franchi Instinct L or SL? |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 2:13:50 PM EDT
[#19]
A couple weeks ago my 39 year old Citori Skeet started having problems. I came home the next day with a 725 Sporting. I had been eyeballing it for months, and absolutely fell in love with it.
That said, I have no qualms with Beretta AT ALL. In fact, I shoot a Beretta A390ST here and there. Bottom line - if you are spending a couple grand, most of the guns are good guns. I would personally stick to the "B guns" like others have said, but buy on what fits me. I love the 725, but if I were buying a field gun, the 686 may have come home with me instead. If you can try them out, try them out. If you can shoulder them, shoulder them. But I would NOT buy based on reviews until I had my hands on at least a couple of the options. Shotguns aren't like ARs to me - the fit matters far more. -shooter |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 2:33:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the definitive answer I was looking for. Thanks so much for taking the time to educate us! I will point out that I own a CZ 912 and it is a very nice shotgun for the money I paid for it. That being said, I did have a hammer fracture after about 1000 rounds. CZ replaced it of course, but that shouldn't happen. Anyone have any opinions on the Franchi Instinct L or SL? Randy Wakeman does not particularly like the franchi. Randy's review of the Franchi |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 2:58:41 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Looking at entering the higher-end O/U game. I've narrowed it down to the following based on reputation and history alone (obviously they have to fit in the end): 1) Benelli 828u 2) Browning Cynergy CX 3) Beretta Silver Pigeon 4) Franchi Instinct SL 5ish) Some of CZ's new offerings look nice....anyone have any experience with them? I know they're Huglus but I care less about name recognition than others. Anyone have any input on these shotguns? All would be in 12GA, 28" or longer barrels. Not trying to be a dick but those are not high end O/Us. Among those choices I'd go with the Beretta. I've always felt that they were the best value in their price range. I don't think you'll be disappointed. |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 3:07:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote History I wonder where in Turkey those are made. 
You can get a nice Fox for that kind of money, and it's a better gun. |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 3:09:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Didn't notice OP, but what are you doing with the O/U? Clays games? hunting?
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Posted: 3/7/2017 3:12:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Have Synergy 20ga. Like it but shoot better with Winchester 101..? Not sure why.. Heel to toe ? Comb ?
Pistol grip angle..? Rib view ? I just shoot better with the 101. Had a superpose also. 101 wins. |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 3:17:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder where in Turkey those are made.
You can get a nice Fox for that kind of money, and it's a better gun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can get a nice Fox for that kind of money, and it's a better gun. For the price of their higher-end O/U model you could get a used Krieghoff or Perazzi, which I'd take any day of the week. |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 3:48:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have Synergy 20ga. Like it but shoot better with Winchester 101..? Not sure why.. Heel to toe ? Comb ? Pistol grip angle..? Rib view ? I just shoot better with the 101. Had a superpose also. 101 wins. Most folks don't realize just how important gun fit is to shotgunning. You will shoot better with a poor quality gun that fits you than you will with a super dooper gun that doesn't fit you. A lot of it is attitude also. Friend of mine has 2 over unders he shoots at skeet. His first skeet gun is an SKB (forgot model - but it is a competition gun w/ subgauge tubes, not a field gun). Then he bought a Beretta 682 Gold E. - Vastly superior gun, but it wasn't his SKB. He could never force himself to put the SKB away and learn to shoot the Beretta. The guy that was coaching him was about ready to strangle him - every time he started showing some consistency with the beretta - out would come the SKB. He finally sold the Beretta at a ridiculous loss. And then bought a brand new Kolar skeet gun with carrier bbl with a full set of Kolar subgauge tubes, and a 12 ga. bbl. - Probably $15,000 - $18,000 or more worth of gun. Still shoots like shit. He could go out and break 99/100 or a 75/100. I wouldn't lay odds on either one. He should have stuck with his SKB and spent the $xx,000 on ammo and lessons. |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 9:55:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For the record if I could afford the ammo I would only shoot 28ga for skeet. That's all I practice with. Mainly because loading .410 is a pain in the ass. |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 9:56:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not trying to be a dick but those are not high end O/Us. Among those choices I'd go with the Beretta. I've always felt that they were the best value in their price range. I don't think you'll be disappointed. No, they're not high end. But the Silver Pigeon is mechanically identical to the other guns in the 687 line, some of which sell for $20K or more. It's a rock solid gun. |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 9:59:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most folks don't realize just how important gun fit is to shotgunning. You will shoot better with a poor quality gun that fits you than you will with a super dooper gun that doesn't fit you. A lot of it is attitude also. Friend of mine has 2 over unders he shoots at skeet. His first skeet gun is an SKB (forgot model - but it is a competition gun w/ subgauge tubes, not a field gun). Then he bought a Beretta 682 Gold E. - Vastly superior gun, but it wasn't his SKB. He could never force himself to put the SKB away and learn to shoot the Beretta. The guy that was coaching him was about ready to strangle him - every time he started showing some consistency with the beretta - out would come the SKB. He finally sold the Beretta at a ridiculous loss. And then bought a brand new Kolar skeet gun with carrier bbl with a full set of Kolar subgauge tubes, and a 12 ga. bbl. - Probably $15,000 - $18,000 or more worth of gun. Still shoots like shit. He could go out and break 99/100 or a 75/100. I wouldn't lay odds on either one. He should have stuck with his SKB and spent the $xx,000 on ammo and lessons. Eh, when I bought mine a few years back the two-barrel set was selling for about $13,500. It's a little more now. I ended up with just a single barrel set w/ tubes. Far more suited to skeet than my Beretta 687 EELL Diamond Pigeon, and I shoot a little better with it (was shooting really well with the Beretta when I switched over too, though) Both were fitted, the Kolar was set at the same LOP as the Beretta although the similarities end there since it's a high rib gun. |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 10:01:42 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, they're not high end. But the Silver Pigeon is mechanically identical to the other guns in the 687 line, some of which sell for $20K or more. It's a rock solid gun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not trying to be a dick but those are not high end O/Us. Among those choices I'd go with the Beretta. I've always felt that they were the best value in their price range. I don't think you'll be disappointed. No, they're not high end. But the Silver Pigeon is mechanically identical to the other guns in the 687 line, some of which sell for $20K or more. It's a rock solid gun. |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 10:12:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, they're not high end. But the Silver Pigeon is mechanically identical to the other guns in the 687 line, some of which sell for $20K or more. It's a rock solid gun. There is a 687 eell thats pricey and basically the same guts. But Berettas higher end guns are not built on the 68x series frames. The 68x series competition guns are Berettas entry level competition guns Next step up from 680series (since replaced by the 690s) were the ASE 90 guns, which were replaced by the somewhat less expensive to make dt10. The dt10 was replaced with the dt11. These guns have a completely different lockup system than the 680/690 series, they also use leaf springs instead of coil springs on the hammers. Kim Rhode now shoots the dt11 in her international competition. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket the next step up from the dt11 series is their SO series. Never seen one up close but I've seen some advertised for over $100k. I believe the SO series uses a similar cross-lock action lockup design as the ase/dt10/dt11 guns. Somewhere between the 680 and 690 series is the sv10 perennia/prevail which is more like the 690. |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 10:27:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Eh, when I bought mine a few years back the two-barrel set was selling for about $13,500. It's a little more now. I ended up with just a single barrel set w/ tubes. Far more suited to skeet than my Beretta 687 EELL Diamond Pigeon, and I shoot a little better with it (was shooting really well with the Beretta when I switched over too, though) Both were fitted, the Kolar was set at the same LOP as the Beretta although the similarities end there since it's a high rib gun. Base kolar max skeet w/ nickle finish, carrier bbl, aaa tubes, & case is $16,590, they go up quickly from there depending on wood and finish. Next step up on their list is $22k |
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Posted: 3/8/2017 1:56:51 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Base kolar max skeet w/ nickle finish, carrier bbl, aaa tubes, & case is $16,590, they go up quickly from there depending on wood and finish. Next step up on their list is $22k Quote HistoryQuoted:
Base kolar max skeet w/ nickle finish, carrier bbl, aaa tubes, & case is $16,590, they go up quickly from there depending on wood and finish. Next step up on their list is $22k I know. When I bought mine the carrier set was $13.5K and the standard 12 gauge barrel w/ tubes (no carrier) was listed at 12. They've gone up considerably over the past few years. Was originally planning on a carrier but saw an awesome deal at a well-known shotgun dealer and ended up getting a standard Max Skeet w/ 12 gauge barrels and tube set brand new for under $10K. Never shoot 12ga through it so not getting the carrier barrel ended up being a non-issue. Quoted:
There is a 687 eell thats pricey and basically the same guts. But Berettas higher end guns are not built on the 68x series frames. The 68x series competition guns are Berettas entry level competition guns Next step up from 680series (since replaced by the 690s) were the ASE 90 guns, which were replaced by the somewhat less expensive to make dt10. The dt10 was replaced with the dt11. These guns have a completely different lockup system than the 680/690 series, they also use leaf springs instead of coil springs on the hammers. Kim Rhode now shoots the dt11 in her international competition. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket the next step up from the dt11 series is their SO series. Never seen one up close but I've seen some advertised for over $100k. I believe the SO series uses a similar cross-lock action lockup design as the ase/dt10/dt11 guns. Somewhere between the 680 and 690 series is the sv10 perennia/prevail which is more like the 690. I know the Beretta guns very well. Have shot both the DT10 and DT11, and own a 687EELL. The Guibileo, which is a $15-20K premium gun, is also a 687 mechanically but with exhibition grade wood and heavy engraving. My point was that the 687 is a rock solid base platform - they're not going to put a crap action in a $20K gun (again, Beretta considers the Guibileo a "premium" field gun). My EELL has over 30K rounds through it and has never required disassembly or repair other than having the safety disabled and the inertia trigger modified for .410 compatibility. To be fair, the Kolar has more rounds down the pipe and has also required no work. The SV10 is useless, IMO. They had problems with stocks breaking, among others. I also think the 692 was a step back from the 682 - I have seen more of those broken in the 2-3 years they've been out than I've ever seen 682s broken. My next O/U shotgun will likely be an SO5 - need a true sidelock to round out the collection, although I would like to get a K-80 just to have one - fortunately they are very common on the used market. |
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Posted: 3/8/2017 3:01:42 AM EDT
[#34]
Love to even see an SO series someday.
I shoot a dt10 with somewhere north of 50k on it. Its out being refinished now, it's getting rather worn. The 692 is a handsome gun, but beretta screwed the pooch when they took out the screw in front of the trigger gaurd. The tang screw under the safety has to take all of the flex in the gun. Friend has one, it has broken that screw twice in the last year. Seen pictures of broken stocks that probably comes from the same problem. 68x series guns are built like tanks. I have a 32" 682 trap and a 28" 686 field gun I bought in the late 80's. Overhaul them on occasion, clean the receiver. Good as new. Shooting my trap gun for skeet league now, hoping my dt gets done fairly soon, 32" bbls and 12 ga. Sucks for skeet 
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Posted: 3/8/2017 8:27:00 AM EDT
[#35]
32" is very common on the skeet fields these days.
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Posted: 3/8/2017 9:44:38 AM EDT
[#36]
Fit first.
Brand second. This will probably be determined by what fits you best off the shelf. 40 years ago I use to make a "lot" of money with an O/U my boss used to shoot his cows when they got in his corn. I worked at a trap club he owned, that was basically a private practice club for a bunch of guys who shot the Grand every year. At the end of the night, there might be a porch shoot. Winner take all, second might get some money. My boss would pay my entry fee and toss me some shells with his car keys. I would go get that beat up Beretta and go town. When you make $2 an hour winning $50-$100 was a big deal. I get why he did it. Watching a highly motivated 15 year old beat the shit out of those "National Shooters" with a cow shooter trunk gun made his day. He also knew that gun fit me like a laser beam. You can spend a lot of money on guns that don't fit, or you can spend a lot of time finding a gun that does. When you find the one that fits, price won't matter as much. Just avoid even considering brands not known for their durability. |
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Posted: 3/8/2017 10:47:31 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Their O/Us have consistently terrible triggers (loooooong travel, 15+ lb trigger pulls, and gritty, inconsistent break). The internals are not hardened like higher quality shotguns (Beretta, Browning, etc), and wear out faster. The barrels are often not indexed properly, resulting in varying points of impact. Really? Did you measure the trigger on EVERY one you shot? Did you disassembly EVERY O/U you shot and test EVERY part on a Brinnel or Rockwell tester? I don't think so! If you don't like them, say so, don't make shit up! Everything you've stated is an OPINION, as you have put forth no FACTS to back up your ASSUMPTIONS. Are CZ/Huglu shotguns of the same quality as Browning, Beretta? No they are not, BUT and here's the important FACT you've ignored, not everyone can afford a $2500+ shotgun, SO (and in MY opinion) CZ's are the BEST shotguns IN THEIR PRICE RANGE in the market today. I'm sure that the OP would be more than happy with one. Rant over. |
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Posted: 3/8/2017 11:09:41 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really? Did you measure the trigger on EVERY one you shot? Did you disassembly EVERY O/U you shot and test EVERY part on a Brinnel or Rockwell tester? I don't think so! If you don't like them, say so, don't make shit up! Everything you've stated is an OPINION, as you have put forth no FACTS to back up your ASSUMPTIONS. Are CZ/Huglu shotguns of the same quality as Browning, Beretta? No they are not, BUT and here's the important FACT you've ignored, not everyone can afford a $2500+ shotgun, SO (and in MY opinion) CZ's are the BEST shotguns IN THEIR PRICE RANGE in the market today. I'm sure that the OP would be more than happy with one. Rant over. The early cz's had problems with their internals. What I remember was the parts were hardened, then fit, timed, and assembled. During the fitting process it was not uncommon to take off too much of the hardenened surface. There was lots of discussion about it on many forums. It was a pretty well known problem. Have not heard about those issues for several years though. I think guns made in the last several years are much better made. |
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Posted: 3/8/2017 11:11:23 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really? Did you measure the trigger on EVERY one you shot? Did you disassembly EVERY O/U you shot and test EVERY part on a Brinnel or Rockwell tester? I don't think so! If you don't like them, say so, don't make shit up! Everything you've stated is an OPINION, as you have put forth no FACTS to back up your ASSUMPTIONS. Are CZ/Huglu shotguns of the same quality as Browning, Beretta? No they are not, BUT and here's the important FACT you've ignored, not everyone can afford a $2500+ shotgun, SO (and in MY opinion) CZ's are the BEST shotguns IN THEIR PRICE RANGE in the market today. I'm sure that the OP would be more than happy with one. Rant over. Quote HistoryQuoted:
<strong>Quoted:</strong>
Their O/Us have consistently terrible triggers (loooooong travel, 15+ lb trigger pulls, and gritty, inconsistent break). The internals are not hardened like higher quality shotguns (Beretta, Browning, etc), and wear out faster. The barrels are often not indexed properly, resulting in varying points of impact. Really? Did you measure the trigger on EVERY one you shot? Did you disassembly EVERY O/U you shot and test EVERY part on a Brinnel or Rockwell tester? I don't think so! If you don't like them, say so, don't make shit up! Everything you've stated is an OPINION, as you have put forth no FACTS to back up your ASSUMPTIONS. Are CZ/Huglu shotguns of the same quality as Browning, Beretta? No they are not, BUT and here's the important FACT you've ignored, not everyone can afford a $2500+ shotgun, SO (and in MY opinion) CZ's are the BEST shotguns IN THEIR PRICE RANGE in the market today. I'm sure that the OP would be more than happy with one. Rant over. I think a key takeaway though is that you can buy a used B-gun with a few rounds through it (sometimes that means 100, sometimes thousands) of some vintage for about what the CZ costs new. If you shoot it for awhile, and don't like it, you won't lose much money on it. If you do shoot it for awhile, most good O/U's can go 50-80k rounds between rebuilds. I have seen quite a few Citori's for around 1k used lately. Haven't looked at Berettas as much. You don't have to buy a $2500 gun to get into a good O/U. I know some folks who like their CZ's, but among folks who really shoot their O/Us you will not see many of them. I think there are over 200 people in my winter skeet/trap league. I would be stunned if there is a single CZ on the field. People who are budget minded shoot old 1100's or older Citori's instead. -shooter |
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Posted: 3/8/2017 11:36:17 AM EDT
[#40]
Newer CZs are better. But I agree wit the above, find a used Browning or Beretta. It will keep its value and will last longer.
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Posted: 3/8/2017 11:41:49 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really? Did you measure the trigger on EVERY one you shot? Did you disassembly EVERY O/U you shot and test EVERY part on a Brinnel or Rockwell tester? I don't think so! If you don't like them, say so, don't make shit up! Everything you've stated is an OPINION, as you have put forth no FACTS to back up your ASSUMPTIONS. Are CZ/Huglu shotguns of the same quality as Browning, Beretta? No they are not, BUT and here's the important FACT you've ignored, not everyone can afford a $2500+ shotgun, SO (and in MY opinion) CZ's are the BEST shotguns IN THEIR PRICE RANGE in the market today. I'm sure that the OP would be more than happy with one. Rant over. You're in over your head here, buddy. I hope that you enjoy your CZ. They do have great customer service. |
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Posted: 3/8/2017 4:12:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
32" is very common on the skeet fields these days. Haven't seen many 32's - of course I don't do the big shoots either. I know Bender was shooting a 32" K-80, but he is big dude. I suspect he was using a carrier bbl as well to keep the bbl weight under some control. It does force you to use proper form. I was using my 28" field gun for a while, it was much too easy to move the gun with your arms rather than driving through the knees. Really had to stay focused on form and not jerk the damn thing to the target  .
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Posted: 3/8/2017 5:27:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Haven't seen many 32's - of course I don't do the big shoots either. I know Bender was shooting a 32" K-80, but he is big dude. I suspect he was using a carrier bbl as well to keep the bbl weight under some control. It does force you to use proper form. I was using my 28" field gun for a while, it was much too easy to move the gun with your arms rather than driving through the knees. Really had to stay focused on form and not jerk the damn thing to the target .That's one of the reasons I went from a 7lb 28" low rib EELL to the 11.5lb 30" high rib Kolar. But 32" is very popular in skeet now. Second only to 30" I would guess. |
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Posted: 3/9/2017 3:34:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's one of the reasons I went from a 7lb 28" low rib EELL to the 11.5lb 30" high rib Kolar. But 32" is very popular in skeet now. Second only to 30" I would guess. Quote HistoryQuoted:
<strong>Quoted:</strong>
Haven't seen many 32's - of course I don't do the big shoots either. I know Bender was shooting a 32" K-80, but he is big dude. I suspect he was using a carrier bbl as well to keep the bbl weight under some control. It does force you to use proper form. I was using my 28" field gun for a while, it was much too easy to move the gun with your arms rather than driving through the knees. Really had to stay focused on form and not jerk the damn thing to the target <img src="http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/smiley_freak.gif" />. That's one of the reasons I went from a 7lb 28" low rib EELL to the 11.5lb 30" high rib Kolar. But 32" is very popular in skeet now. Second only to 30" I would guess. I just went from 26 inch barrels (vintage Citori Skeet - beavertail forearm) to 30's. I have to say I am a big fan after only 2 rounds on the new gun. Ask me in a month if I am still loving the change. To the question at hand - I have seldom heard someone regret buying "too much" gun (it does happen though). I have heard a lot of people regret buying "not enough" gun for everything they want it to do. If you want to get into the O/U game, it is worth doing right. -shooter |
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Posted: 3/10/2017 2:50:38 PM EDT
[#45]
So I picked up a Citori cx last year, I know a different gun then the cenergy but I have hands on with it. I love it so far, shot about 350 rounds through it and a couple rounds of trap. My only input is skip the cz if you plan on shooting a lot. Most of them are for field use and will beat you up after a round of trap or 2. Next is all of the B guns you mentioned all for way different from one to the other. So go handle them all and buy what fits best. I found that the berettas didn't fit me at all, and the benelli fit ok but i didn't care for the feel of it. The browning fit me great.
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Posted: 3/11/2017 10:20:30 AM EDT
[#46]
I wrote a post a while back on this subject but I can't find it.
In a nutshell my advise is to shop the highest quality shotgun you can afford and then spend a few bucks more. I never heard anyone say they were sorry that they bought too nice a shotgun. Shotguns are very personal and you should rent/ borrow/ shoot as many guns as possible and keep notes on the guns you try. I started with 870's and continued with 500's, 1100's, 11-87's, 391's, 525, 682, A400 and found the promise land with a Perazzi MX2000. Yes happiness can be purchased. I was well over 70 shotguns at one point. Now I'm in the 30 to 40 range. I sold a bunch and gave away several to young people. Buy the very best you can afford and don't wind up with a collection of junk like I did. Not that you don't need several shotguns because if you hunt as well shoot clays you will need a dozen or so but purchase wisely. |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 7:05:29 PM EDT
[#47]
I think this is the most genuine advice I've received yet, buy once, cry once.
As for the list being not "high-end", I neither need nor want a $20k gun. Too much responsibility.  Sorry for making the mistake of calling them "higher-end" in my OP. I will happily shoot a Beretta SP1 or Browning Citori/Cynergy all day, every day and not bat an eye because at the end of said days, broken clays are broken clays.
With that being said, I plan on using this purchase for about 90% clays (trap, skeet, sporting) and 10% hunting (this is a maybe). I don't plan on competing, just practice for the field so I can blast more pheasants/grouse/other upland birds. Regardless, I appreciate the unbiased advice! I think I've eliminated the Franchi's from the running using Mike103's buy once, cry once mentality. How about the Browning Cynergy Sporting? Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wrote a post a while back on this subject but I can't find it. In a nutshell my advise is to shop the highest quality shotgun you can afford and then spend a few bucks more. I never heard anyone say they were sorry that they bought too nice a shotgun. Shotguns are very personal and you should rent/ borrow/ shoot as many guns as possible and keep notes on the guns you try. I started with 870's and continued with 500's, 1100's, 11-87's, 391's, 525, 682, A400 and found the promise land with a Perazzi MX2000. Yes happiness can be purchased. I was well over 70 shotguns at one point. Now I'm in the 30 to 40 range. I sold a bunch and gave away several to young people. Buy the very best you can afford and don't wind up with a collection of junk like I did. Not that you don't need several shotguns because if you hunt as well shoot clays you will need a dozen or so but purchase wisely. |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 11:41:32 PM EDT
[#48]
I have seen very few Cynergys and the ones I've seen have issues. Citori or 687 IMO.
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Posted: 3/13/2017 10:56:54 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have seen very few Cynergys and the ones I've seen have issues. Citori or 687 IMO. This. The basic design of the Citori action hasn't changed all that much in a long time. It is VERY proven in my opinion. The Cynergys seemed hot for the first year or two, but fell off fast. The FN's aren't big sellers, but I have met a couple folks who love theirs. -shooter |
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Posted: 3/13/2017 3:51:27 PM EDT
[#50]
I can't speak to the quality of the Cynergy but I have handled and shot them and they are a very odd feeling gun.
Not popular in competition from what I have seen. I only know one woman who shoots one and not very well. |
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