I've always wanted one since using one. My meager income makes it hard to dive in on one. So here is the question Are they really worth it. I want a low recoiling 12 gauge for fun and security on the property if ever needed. I know it's been deployed for a decent time in the sand box. I'm just trying to ascertain whether its worth me getting. So help talk me into it. Give me the good and bad only if you have first hand experience. I can read the crap on the net. I would like to hear about actual first hand use. Keep in mind I have many 12 gauge shotguns already browning gold hunter, Mossberg 500, Remington 870 tactical, Winchester model 12. All these are 12 gauge I love them all. I just don't have a so called military/tactical semiauto 12 gauge yet. So I really don't need it I just want it so bad.

They're great OP.  Budgets are always an issue, but all things are possible.  Save up and get what you want.

Head over to the shotgun picture thread for some motivation.

you already have a shotgun. more than one.

the right answer you don't want to hear is save the money.  save $2,000 cash, payoff debt, or grow it in an IRA, invested in a low cost index fund.

Full disclosure: I build M4's for a side job for clients. I have several overseas in Australia doing invasive species eradication programs when it moves past poisoning programs. Most of these are feral pigs that can be pretty nasty if cornered. A tested M4 will chug along reliably and do what is asked. You might have some 'wait-a-minutes' if you are feeding it valuepack crap. Action reports have shown the pigs get their dick's knocked in the dirt with one round of buckshot. Usually a finishing hit is then given to minimize suffering. They go down hard, legs still trying to run. These engagements are usually between 40 - 75 yards. So you can imagine the pellet pattern is around 14 - 20 inches.

It's a great shotgun platform, but it will end up costing you far more than 2000 dollars. Once you get one, you'll want to outfit it with a collapsible stock, and a titanium magazine tube and a bunch of other bells and whistles. I've built many that are in the 4500 dollar range with optics/lights/proper sling setups. With a proper Limbsaver setup, they deliver slugs at range without much discomfort.

For defense when I'm in the field or at home; I use the AR15. More capacity, more range, less recoil, less weight, easier/faster to reload, better triggers, shorter overall length, and better controls.

This won't help you any:




One of my client's M1014's that I made the collapsible stock functional on and added a full length magazine tube. Never cared for the Surefire M80 rail, but he liked it.

Picked up a used one that looks new for $1600 with the surefire forearm, collapsible stock, tube extension and some other addons. Runs like a champ, only issue is that the stock locked up...I haven't  gotten around to taking it apart yet StrangerDanger

Ive shot all kinda of pump shotguns but got my M4 6'ish months ago.  Night and day difference.  and the fact I got it (desert camo version) for $1100 makes it that much sweeter.

for the cost you could build an SBR with a Can....and have some money for a steak dinner

I have a M4 and a M4 Entry (NFA 14-inch barrel).  Love 'em.  Built like tanks and never had any problems at all.  Much softer recoil than an M2.

You will definitely want a titanium mag tube, both for capacity and weight reduction.  I have the collapsible stocks but I like the standard pistol grip stock almost as much.  The rest is personal preference.

You can find some bargains on used M4s, I would look there if you're on a tight budget.

StrangerDanger, is CarrierComp making titanium mag tubes for the M4 Entry yet?

AFAIK, CC has always had Entry length mag tubes. It is the factory 5rd size, no?


http://shop.carriercomp.com/product.sc?productId=12&categoryId=4

Yep, ths post has made me want to start saving for one now too.

Ignore Double Post

Good to hear. I had an m2 i thought kicked like a mule with slugs and full power buck.
I just put a 4 on layaway off gunjoker through loftis pawn. Got 9 months

I've seen a few for around $1300-$1500 used locally. I've shot them and for what they weigh I've chosen to stick with an old 1100 modified for under $400. I have a friend who does hog eradication hunting from a Robinson R22 with an 1100 and his own custom loads of a 1oz slug backed up with three 00 buck pellets, it's a sledgehammer. He hits the hogs right at the top of the spine and they just plow into the ground. He has to use a shell catcher on aerial platform. While everyone else is switching to AR's he swears by the shotgun.

So what your all saying is listen to the voices in my head. Lol I'm kidding I guess I may let it go unless I come across one through a trade. Love those m4 pics shared above awesome. Thanks everyone for the info.

This is correct. It's purely a weight savings and color match measure.

I bought mine last year when Gander Mountain had a 20% off anything store wide, including firearms. $1799 list price, got it for $1620+ tax.

Still too much money imo, but it is worth it as I use mine for everything.. and I mean everything from shooting barn pigeons out on the farm and squirrel hunting to clay pigeons. I mean.. why buy such an expensive shotgun if you're only going to use it at the range or keep it at home for home defense right?

Current set up with the salvo is pretty damn heavy... but it sure is fun to shoot... especially when it recoils less than a pump action 20ga... I kid you not:


Some pics from hunting last season:

Nice

How do you like the RMR? I have been thinking about one or maybe the new MI mount for Aimpoints.

I've only had it for about 2 months now.. and I love it. Especially since it will co-witness. Real easy to pick up the dot vs that front sight post.

If you are worried about price, Remington Versa Max Tactical is inspired by M4 with many advantages over Benelli M4.

* It can take 3.5" shells, M4 cannot.
* It has a higher capacity, it can take 8 2-3/4" shells, M4 only 7.  Or look at it this way, you can fit 7 3" shells in VMT while M4 can only take 7 2-3/4" shells.
*  No legal issues to worry about with extending the magazine tube, etc.
* VMT recoils softer than M4.  This is anecdotal data I've heard, not personally experienced.

*If you don't like the conventional stock, M4 fixed pistol grip will mount easily onto VMT as will the trigger group (supposedly)
* VMT comes with a correctly spec'ed rail, M4 supposedly has an out of spec rail -- no personal experience
* You can find VMT sub-1000, while M4 usually you cannot.

One huge advantage of M4 over VMT is the size, the latter seems huge. Seems smaller capacity decreases the overall length, obviously.
the other item, the M4 PG stock fits me perfectly, while most don't seem to like it.

IMO,  lack of standard full length mag tube, out of spec rail, exorbitant prices make VMT a more attractive item than M4. You give up nothing with VMT.   I think I would buy M4 if I could find sub-$1,000 but at $1500 plus the cost of tube and other accessories, no. Two thousand it's not worth, IMO.

Have had the VMT for years, zero issues with it. Not one failure.

I've only had an M4 for about a month, but so far I'd say it's well worth the money. If you want an M4, just get the M4. Don't go a less expensive route...you won't be happy until you get the M4. I had a Mossberg 930SPX, then a Beretta 1301 Tactical, when I should have just gotten the M4 from the get-go.

Thanks for the info I may just do that as it looks pretty good

I have a M4 that I've used or 3-gun the last few years.  Other than the "wow" factor at the range, I'm not sure



With that said, I thought about selling/trading mine to get a nice bolt gun.  Then picking up an 870 for the house.

I wanted an M4 but went the Versa Max route and I'm happy.

Picked mine up on EE with a full length tube and Burnt bronze duracoat for $1400.

Shop around and you can get a good deal.

Any required reading on the different generations of M4s imported?  Sold on the platform but need to make myself informed.

11701 or M1014: Limited Edition. Comes with a neutered receiver extension that won't let the collapsible stock collapse. Difficult to fix, but doable. Also comes with a fixed choke 18.5" 2 port barrel. These were limited to 2,500 releases. The most notable feature is the engraved American flag on the ejection port side of the receiver. The magazine tube is limited to 5 rounds.

11703: The new production units come with a field stock and an 18.5" 2 port barrel. It comes with the correct 3 position receiver extension to permits the collapsible stock to collapse.  The magazine tube is limited to 5 rounds.

11703 The old versions came with a pistol grip stock and an 18.5" 4 port barrel with removable chokes. The 4 port barrels are shit and are being swapped out by Benelli upon request. The old model comes with the same neutered receiver extension that won't allow the collapsible stock to collapse. The magazine tube is limited to 5 rounds.

11707: Consider this the post ban black production unit. It comes with a 3 position receiver extension and an 18.5" 2 port barrel with removable chokes. These will come with a 5 round magazine tube. Newer production models are coming with a polymer trigger pack instead of an aluminum one. This is the most popular model out there.

11717: Desert Camo Edition: This is a 11707 style 18.5" model that has a three tone desert camo pattern applied. It comes with a 5 round magazine and a pistol grip stock. It has the provision to accept a collapsible stock.

11718: This is an 18.5" H2O model that is NP3 coated. It comes with a 5 round magazine tube and the provisions to install a collapsible stock. This model comes with a pistol grip stock.

11719: This is an 18.5" H2O model that is NP3 coated. It comes with a 5 round magazine tube and the provisions to install a collapsible stock. This model comes with a field stock.

11791: This is an 18.5" Dark Earth Cerakote coated model. It comes with a 5 round magazine tube and the provisions to install a collapsible stock. This model comes with a pistol grip stock.

11792: This is an 18.5" Dark Earth Cerakote coated model. It comes with a 5 round magazine tube and the provisions to install a collapsible stock. This model comes with a field stock.

There are Law Enforcement Only models that sometimes find their way into civilian hands. 18.5" models hold 7 rounds. 14" Entry models hold 5 rounds. All have the provisions for using a collapsible stock. Entry models have fixed chokes. 18.5" have interchangeable chokes. All are 2 port barrels.

11721: Black 18.5" with a collapsible stock.

11715: Black 18.5" with a collapsible stock and Meprolight night sights.

11710: Black 18.5" with a field stock.

11722: Black 14" Entry model with a pistol grip stock.

11723: Black 14" with a field stock.

11724: Black 14" Entry model with a collapsible stock.    

11711: This is the NP3 coated 18.5" model. All the features are the same as the 11707 except came with a collapsible stock and a full length 7 round magazine tube. This is considered a Law a Enforcement only model now. I believe 65 made it into civilian hands before the ATF smashed it like an angry God with a ban hammer.

Addendum:
Another option is the Salient Arms modified Benelli M4. I believe they start out with a 11707. I've never handled one, so I can't say how they perform vs. stock.

I had always wanted one but found the price stupid high.  That said, LGS had some factory NFA guns come in which solves the biggest problem with the regular gun, the neutered mag tube.   The NFA model was about the same price and considering you didn't have to spend money fixing the tube, it was actually cheaper.

I also have a police model 11-87 back before Remington QC totally went to hell, it cycles everything without issue and I think it recoils less than the M4.  Now, if I want a shotgun to drag through a combat zone and shoot several hundred rounds without cleaning, yes the M4 is better.  But for 3x the price, I sure hope the M4 is better.

Apart from the Limited Edition model, which model is the most desirable/ sought after and why ?

Got one

I think that would be the 11711.

Question for SD: I've seen a number of 11718's that came with the NP3 5 round tube installed with a NP3 7 round tube in the box with it.  Wondering if the original 11718s came into the US with 7 round tubes and had the 5 round tubes installed by Robar later to make them legal?

I'd agree that the 11711 is probably the hardest to get. I saw one go for nearly 9000 dollars on gunbroker during the Sandy Hook panic buy. No idea if the seller ever got paid though.

Those 11718's may have came over as 11711's, then were converted to make the ATF happy. I wasn't aware that they left the full length magazine tubes in there though.

I personally like the deal you get with the 11718's. I think they're a Best Buy for the money. Other than that, I heavily modify 11707's. Surprisingly, many of the aftermarket items are superior to the OEM parts. Example: carriercomp or Geissele parts. Even FFT's parts meet or exceed the OEM for most items.

I currently have a client's 11715 and all its accessories at Robar being coated completely in NP3+. Everything metal except the sight apertures is being coated, down to the buttpad screws. Plastics are left black. I supplied it with a Trijicon RMR RM01 that was coated in Nickel Boron. The color marches up quite well to the NP3+.

I've had a few and currently own just the 14" SBS.  5+1+1 with the Ghost load.  I'm in between weapon light solutions at the moment and popped on the old SF M80.  If money is not a big consideration, the M4 is still the best fighting shotgun available.

I started shooting them in 2003. It's been my grail gun ever since.

I had one several years ago and sold it to fund another project. I regretted that decision from day one and can honestly say it was the only gun I've ever regretted selling.
Fast forward to to yesterday and I finally had enough play money to replace it. Needless to say this one won't be leaving the collection. Added the FFT trigger and disconnector, Geissle hammer, FFT follower, and FFT handguards to bring it into 922R compliance and then topped it with a Vortex Razor.
First range trip consisted of 4 boxes of cheap Walmart bulk ammo, 25 rounds Remington 00 buckshot, and 35 rounds Remington Sluggers. The gun performed flawlessly and I am well pleased!
Crappy cellphone pic

Looks great!  Get a carriercomp titanium mag tube for that thing.

Do you have any plans to swap out that restrictive mag tube?

Thanks guys!
No plans to switch the tube since I prefer the 2 round extension that's on there. Something about heating up a $1700.00 gun to melt the Loctite just doesn't sit well with me .

Check out the FN SLP as well. Not quite as pricey as the M4, solid as hell tactical shotgun.

It really is an easy job. All you need is a heat gun, not a torch.  10 minutes and the old tube is out and you are done.

Yeah I've seen it done on YouTube and it doesn't look difficult. I'Ve just never had a burning desire to do it since the extension gives me the same capacity and makes going back to stock configuration super convenient. Besides, I have enough US made components to meet the legal requirements for 922R without adding it. It also keeps the warranty intact should any issues arise. Benelli would likely still honor the warranty even with a tube change, however I prefer to be on the safe side.
Took it out again this morning and had a glorious time. Another 200 rounds of bulk low brass and 30 rounds of slugs without a hiccup. It's an amazing set up and I am extremely pleased with the Vortes Razor. My last one was topped with an Aimpoint PRO but it didn't balance right. The Razor adds virtually no weight and so far has held zero beautifully.