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Posted: 2/11/2016 3:30:09 PM EDT

Hey guys I'm entertaining the idea of making a SBS in the 10"-14" range.
Obviously if I shorten the barrel I lose some range with the shotgun.
However would adding various chokes to it allow me to "re-gain" that range?
Would using a choke allow say a 12" to be as accurate with slugs as a 18" cylinder?
Would there be significant POI shift?
Thanks for the help guys!

Posted: 2/11/2016 3:44:39 PM EDT

[#1]

This is a good article on an interesting experiment.
Energy By The Inch

Yes, you can usually have a cut barrel threaded for interchangeable choke tubes. A lot depends on the barrel wall thickness

Don't confuse pattern with range. The same shot load fired from a FULL choke or a SKEET choke has the same "range" but different patterns at various points along that range.

POI shifts are going to be subjective to your particular barrel. You might have a shift or you might not. It will depend on factors such as how straight the bore was to begin with, contour of the barrel and if the muzzle is cut and trued properly and proper installation of the new sight, etc.

Posted: 2/11/2016 3:52:06 PM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is a good article on an interesting experiment.
Energy By The Inch

Yes, you can usually have a cut barrel threaded for interchangeable choke tubes. A lot depends on the barrel wall thickness

Don't confuse pattern with range. The same shot load fired from a FULL choke or a SKEET choke has the same "range" but different patterns at various points along that range.

POI shifts are going to be subjective to your particular barrel. You might have a shift or you might not.

View Quote

POI shifts when changing chokes out? I'm thinking of using a Saiga 12.

Posted: 2/11/2016 3:55:42 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:

POI shifts when changing chokes out? I'm thinking of using a Saiga 12.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is a good article on an interesting experiment.
Energy By The Inch

Yes, you can usually have a cut barrel threaded for interchangeable choke tubes. A lot depends on the barrel wall thickness

Don't confuse pattern with range. The same shot load fired from a FULL choke or a SKEET choke has the same "range" but different patterns at various points along that range.

POI shifts are going to be subjective to your particular barrel. You might have a shift or you might not. ETA: It will depend on factors such as how straight the bore was to begin with, contour of the barrel and if the muzzle is cut and trued properly and proper installation of the new sight, etc.

POI shifts when changing chokes out? I'm thinking of using a Saiga 12.

I edited my original post but I assumed you meant a change in POI before -v- after you cut the barrel.

You shouldn't have a change in POI between choke tubes UNLESS the tubes are not truly concentric with the bore or each other

Posted: 2/11/2016 4:02:10 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:

I edited my original post but I assumed you meant a change in POI before -v- after you cut the barrel.

You shouldn't have a change in POI between choke tubes UNLESS the tubes are not truly concentric with the bore or each other

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is a good article on an interesting experiment.
Energy By The Inch

Yes, you can usually have a cut barrel threaded for interchangeable choke tubes. A lot depends on the barrel wall thickness

Don't confuse pattern with range. The same shot load fired from a FULL choke or a SKEET choke has the same "range" but different patterns at various points along that range.

POI shifts are going to be subjective to your particular barrel. You might have a shift or you might not. ETA: It will depend on factors such as how straight the bore was to begin with, contour of the barrel and if the muzzle is cut and trued properly and proper installation of the new sight, etc.

POI shifts when changing chokes out? I'm thinking of using a Saiga 12.

I edited my original post but I assumed you meant a change in POI before -v- after you cut the barrel.

You shouldn't have a change in POI between choke tubes UNLESS the tubes are not truly concentric with the bore or each other

Cool, thanks!

If anyone has any info on slug stabilization on shorter barrels or slug grouping I'd appreciate it!

Posted: 2/11/2016 4:45:18 PM EDT

[#5]

Great article BTW. Makes me learn towards a 12" shotgun. Thanks!

Posted: 2/11/2016 5:31:28 PM EDT

[#6]

Good article. Thanks.

Posted: 2/11/2016 9:09:48 PM EDT

[#7]

I threaded my SBS for chokes for the ability to mount the Salvo suppressor. As a bonus I can alter the pattern.

Posted: 2/12/2016 10:49:59 AM EDT

[#8]

Pretty happy with my 12".

Had RAS thread the barrel and I mainly switch between a mod and improved. Its a fun gun for skeet but really needs the mod choke to knock down pheasants (magnum shells are helpful too, you do loose some velocity).

If your thinking of cutting an 870 and using magpul furniture the end of your barrel will sit inside the hand guard, an extended choke pushes it just past.

Haven't tried slugs through it yet, I would imagine my biggest obstacle in accuracy would be that I went with a vent rib instead of rifle type sights.

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Posted: 2/12/2016 11:27:02 AM EDT

[#9]

I use an adjustable Poly Choke on my Saiga SBS.

It patterns respectably.

Posted: 2/12/2016 2:49:41 PM EDT

[#10]

I had my barrel cut to 12.5" threaded for chokes and had rifle sights installed by RAS. I've got an improved cylinder choke in and it put five Federal TruBall reduced recoil slugs into 7" at 50yds. The sights need adjusted but I'm pleased with the accuracy.

Posted: 2/12/2016 6:30:20 PM EDT

[#11]

The old rule of thumb is you have to add or remove 2" of barrel length to even change velocity and on average it's 10fps per inch. It looks like in the test linked above he averaged 11fps per inch.

Since velocity, or loss of it, is more critical to pattern density and penetration at longer ranges it's not a huge issue for typical HD range with buckshot or getting whacked with a 1oz slug.

Choke tubes and variations in loads give you the most in terms of dialing it in.

Posted: 2/12/2016 11:05:24 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:

POI shifts when changing chokes out? I'm thinking of using a Saiga 12.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is a good article on an interesting experiment.
Energy By The Inch

Yes, you can usually have a cut barrel threaded for interchangeable choke tubes. A lot depends on the barrel wall thickness

Don't confuse pattern with range. The same shot load fired from a FULL choke or a SKEET choke has the same "range" but different patterns at various points along that range.

POI shifts are going to be subjective to your particular barrel. You might have a shift or you might not.

POI shifts when changing chokes out? I'm thinking of using a Saiga 12.

Yes different chokes will change POI of slugs, most SG's will be the most accurate with a Mod choke.
In my SG zeroed at 100 with a Mod (I say zeroed - 4-6" group)
IC is 6" low, 4" left
Cyl is 18" low, 3" right

A SBS will not have the range as a longer barrel, say 22" barrel, accuracy will degrade some as well.

Now an 18" barrel can get close to the range/pattern as a 24"

I prefer an 18" with chokes, VS a longer barrel.

Posted: 2/13/2016 9:12:39 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
I had my barrel cut to 12.5" threaded for chokes and had rifle sights installed by RAS. I've got an improved cylinder choke in and it put five Federal TruBall reduced recoil slugs into 7" at 50yds. The sights need adjusted but I'm pleased with the accuracy.

http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv63/phylodog/4A97E761-9A03-471C-845D-DE35A73D3161_zpsmfrc45ze.jpg

http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv63/phylodog/8AA671B9-BD4B-4E55-9318-AD29AF07DEF5_zps4gjoojfh.jpg

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Will this group wider with no choke?

Posted: 2/13/2016 9:17:17 AM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:

Yes different chokes will change POI of slugs, most SG's will be the most accurate with a Mod choke.
In my SG zeroed at 100 with a Mod (I say zeroed - 4-6" group)
IC is 6" low, 4" left
Cyl is 18" low, 3" right

A SBS will not have the range as a longer barrel, say 22" barrel, accuracy will degrade some as well.

Now an 18" barrel can get close to the range/pattern as a 24"

I prefer an 18" with chokes, VS a longer barrel.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is a good article on an interesting experiment.
Energy By The Inch

Yes, you can usually have a cut barrel threaded for interchangeable choke tubes. A lot depends on the barrel wall thickness

Don't confuse pattern with range. The same shot load fired from a FULL choke or a SKEET choke has the same "range" but different patterns at various points along that range.

POI shifts are going to be subjective to your particular barrel. You might have a shift or you might not.

POI shifts when changing chokes out? I'm thinking of using a Saiga 12.

Yes different chokes will change POI of slugs, most SG's will be the most accurate with a Mod choke.
In my SG zeroed at 100 with a Mod (I say zeroed - 4-6" group)
IC is 6" low, 4" left
Cyl is 18" low, 3" right

A SBS will not have the range as a longer barrel, say 22" barrel, accuracy will degrade some as well.

Now an 18" barrel can get close to the range/pattern as a 24"

I prefer an 18" with chokes, VS a longer barrel.

Interesting, however if I use Mod Choke on a 12" SBS do you think I could get the accuracy of 18" cylinder?

Posted: 2/13/2016 9:25:37 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
I use an adjustable Poly Choke on my Saiga SBS.

It patterns respectably.

<a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/user/kallnojoy/media/saigasbs002_zpsd3c815c4.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc101/kallnojoy/saigasbs002_zpsd3c815c4.jpg</a>

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I like the idea of the polychoke. Thinking about buying one. Would I be wiser to go this way or the "3 choke pack" that I've seen online. (3 individual chokes) like this http://www.sgmtactical.com/sgm-products/muzzle_brakes_chokes/vepr-12-gauge-choke-set/
I do own a VEPR 12, which I'm considering SBSing. Or at least just applying for the stamp before 41p.
EDIT I think the polychoke might be a better option given the choke sizes.