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Posted: 4/14/2015 4:27:57 PM EDT
There's only been brief mention of the KSG on here, and I kinda like mine even though there's those that piss and moan about it's supposed faults. I own several of the popular shotguns in various configurations. The closest thing I have that was similar to the KSG was a High Standard 10A bullpup, but it has it's pissers and moaners too! The only fault I had with it was it's lack of magazine capacity.
But here's my KSG setup................... 
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Posted: 4/16/2015 8:44:35 AM EDT
[#1]
Pretty slick !
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Posted: 4/16/2015 3:14:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty slick ! Thanks! 
It's not quite finished yet though. I put the soft velcro on for the cheek rest, added a set of cheap flip up sights for just in case, added the Eotech 512 as it seemed perfect for the purpose, added a cap on the hollow hand grip for spare battery storage, added an angled magpul front grip adapter with an aftermarket front sling mount, and lastly since I'm a night vision addict, I added a removable IR laser white light combo that also has a strobe function on the white light. I'm planning on adding a Breacher muzzle break partially because it looks cool, but mostly to help prevent any hands getting in front of the muzzle. There's been several reports of this inadvertently happening. I'm happy with it, so I guess that's what's important! 
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Posted: 4/16/2015 8:45:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Just curious, why don't you put your eotech forward more and your rear buis behind it?
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Posted: 4/16/2015 10:10:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just curious, why don't you put your eotech forward more and your rear buis behind it? It was an eye focus issue, otherwise I would have. My right eye doesn't focus good on the Eotech reticle unless it's back as far as I can get it. I can still use the the flip up sights with or without the Eotech in place this way though. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 1:10:44 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was an eye focus issue, otherwise I would have. My right eye doesn't focus good on the Eotech reticle unless it's back as far as I can get it. I can still use the the flip up sights with or without the Eotech in place this way though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just curious, why don't you put your eotech forward more and your rear buis behind it? It was an eye focus issue, otherwise I would have. My right eye doesn't focus good on the Eotech reticle unless it's back as far as I can get it. I can still use the the flip up sights with or without the Eotech in place this way though. Makes sense, whatever works for you, works for me 
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Posted: 4/17/2015 1:16:39 AM EDT
[#6]
A budy of mine got one when they 1st came out, its a fun toy to run..
However.. Watch the end of that Blaster... |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 9:12:13 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A budy of mine got one when they 1st came out, its a fun toy to run.. However.. Watch the end of that Blaster... Yep! That's why I want to add the Breacher muzzle device. Between it and the angled fore grip device, it should minimize the the chances of it happening. Also so some awareness discipline as well. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 9:26:46 AM EDT
[#8]
So, are any "bugs" worked out on current production guns? In other words is the general consensus that that KSG is good to go?
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Posted: 4/17/2015 9:53:12 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, are any "bugs" worked out on current production guns? In other words is the general consensus that that KSG is good to go? My understanding is that the Gen 1 guns were somewhat faulty, but the newer Gen 2s are fine. Mine is a Gen 2 and I've had no problems with it in any way. In my opinion it's good to go! |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 1:25:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Only problem with the platform is that it shits where it eats. Any weapon that feeds and ejects from the same port is asking for a visit from Murphy at the worst time.
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Posted: 4/17/2015 2:31:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only problem with the platform is that it shits where it eats. Any weapon that feeds and ejects from the same port is asking for a visit from Murphy at the worst time. So far that's the favorite 'piss and moan' point as they can't seem to find any others. The Ithaca 37 is the same way and was and is a popular and expensive weapon. I'm always puzzled at how something that's supposed flawed in it's design, commands a high price and remains popular? 
As I've mentioned previously. Weapons are a matter of personal choice. The KSG suits me just fine, and I don't think it's any more prone to severe failure than any other popular shotgun. If I had a bitch about it, it would be the price and not the design. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 5:03:56 PM EDT
[#12]
It's not that it malfs any more or any less than any other platform it's that when it malfs, it can't be cleared quickly enough to save your life. A shotgun with a side ejection port has a visible chamber and a place for the offending jam to clear to rather than blocking the chamber completely with a new shell attempting to load. Law enforcement dropped the 37 from duty in the late '80's early '90's because it became an archaic action and besides cops have sidearms to transition to, hope you do.
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Posted: 4/17/2015 6:14:14 PM EDT
[#13]
The 37 is expensive because it's expensive to manufacture, the KSG is expensive because they never could produce them in any significant number. Remember the KSG was supposed to have an MSRP of $550 ( of which retail is about 15-25% off) but the vaporware factor drove prices up. Besides cost has never been a factor in determining the success of a design, the Ferrari designed Dino being a good example, nice to look at, fun to drive...when it was running.
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Posted: 4/17/2015 6:18:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not that it malfs any more or any less than any other platform it's that when it malfs, it can't be cleared quickly enough to save your life. A shotgun with a side ejection port has a visible chamber and a place for the offending jam to clear to rather than blocking the chamber completely with a new shell attempting to load. Law enforcement dropped the 37 from duty in the late '80's early '90's because it became an archaic action and besides cops have sidearms to transition to, hope you do. Yes I have several options that would always be present. I keep hearing about the 'hard to clear jam'. Although I've never experienced one with the KSG so far, the illustration for clearing in the owner's manual doesn't make it seem to bad. With the split lifter (the 37 didn't have it), it doesn't look too hard to clear. Are you speaking from personal experience, or just what you've read? I'm guessing it's kind of a non issue, if you maintain your weapon properly. I've personally experienced some bastard jams with the conventional shotgun systems. Usually no jam is a good one when it all counts!
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Posted: 4/17/2015 6:49:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 37 is expensive because it's expensive to manufacture, the KSG is expensive because they never could produce them in any significant number. Remember the KSG was supposed to have an MSRP of $550 ( of which retail is about 15-25% off) but the vaporware factor drove prices up. Besides cost has never been a factor in determining the success of a design, the Ferrari designed Dino being a good example, nice to look at, fun to drive...when it was running. You're right! The law of supply and demand prevails! A shotgun based on stampings and advanced plastic moldings should not be that high though! A visit to Gunbroker will show you just how bad it is! They aren't scarce because of lack of manufacturing capability. It's because of demand! If they were bad like the UTI junk, they wouldn't be as hard to get. Again I'll ask the question, "are you basing your comments on actual usage, or just what you've read?" Buy one and try it out, then profess what you know please! 
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Posted: 4/17/2015 6:55:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes I have several options that would always be present. I keep hearing about the 'hard to clear jam'. Although I've never experienced one with the KSG so far, the illustration for clearing in the owner's manual doesn't make it seem to bad. With the split lifter (the 37 didn't have it), it doesn't look too hard to clear. Are you speaking from personal experience, or just what you've read? I'm guessing it's kind of a non issue, if you maintain your weapon properly. I've personally experienced some bastard jams with the conventional shotgun systems. Usually no jam is a good one when it all counts!
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's not that it malfs any more or any less than any other platform it's that when it malfs, it can't be cleared quickly enough to save your life. A shotgun with a side ejection port has a visible chamber and a place for the offending jam to clear to rather than blocking the chamber completely with a new shell attempting to load. Law enforcement dropped the 37 from duty in the late '80's early '90's because it became an archaic action and besides cops have sidearms to transition to, hope you do. Yes I have several options that would always be present. I keep hearing about the 'hard to clear jam'. Although I've never experienced one with the KSG so far, the illustration for clearing in the owner's manual doesn't make it seem to bad. With the split lifter (the 37 didn't have it), it doesn't look too hard to clear. Are you speaking from personal experience, or just what you've read? I'm guessing it's kind of a non issue, if you maintain your weapon properly. I've personally experienced some bastard jams with the conventional shotgun systems. Usually no jam is a good one when it all counts!
37 does have forked lifter as does BPS all based on Remington Model 1917. The lifter is part of the problem, because it's forked it will slip passed a stuck case tripping the feed latch allowing another cartridge to feed onto it, underneath the empty already in the chamber. The worst jam is when on ejection a lifter arm bends (even slightly) this causes the bent lifter arm to not retract far enough into the recess in the upper reciever. This is what I call the "death" jam as the gun will no longer fully cycle any shell because the exposed arm will continue to knock each fired cartridge off the extractors effecting the same jam over and over and over, requiring you to manually clear the gun after each shot. An 870 cannot have that type of jam and short of extractor failure can consistently be cleared in about 3 seconds. Yes I have experienced, cleared and fixed firearms with these jams. I own this action type as a novel or sporting gun but would never purposely choose a bottom feed eject system like this as a defensive weapon. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 7:34:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
37 does have forked lifter as does BPS all based on Remington Model 1917. The lifter is part of the problem, because it's forked it will slip passed a stuck case tripping the feed latch allowing another cartridge to feed onto it, underneath the empty already in the chamber. The worst jam is when on ejection a lifter arm bends (even slightly) this causes the bent lifter arm to not retract far enough into the recess in the upper reciever. This is what I call the "death" jam as the gun will no longer fully cycle any shell because the exposed arm will continue to knock each fired cartridge off the extractors effecting the same jam over and over and over, requiring you to manually clear the gun after each shot. An 870 cannot have that type of jam and short of extractor failure can consistently be cleared in about 3 seconds. Yes I have experienced, cleared and fixed firearms with these jams. I own this action type as a novel or sporting gun but would never purposely choose a bottom feed eject system like this as a defensive weapon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's not that it malfs any more or any less than any other platform it's that when it malfs, it can't be cleared quickly enough to save your life. A shotgun with a side ejection port has a visible chamber and a place for the offending jam to clear to rather than blocking the chamber completely with a new shell attempting to load. Law enforcement dropped the 37 from duty in the late '80's early '90's because it became an archaic action and besides cops have sidearms to transition to, hope you do. Yes I have several options that would always be present. I keep hearing about the 'hard to clear jam'. Although I've never experienced one with the KSG so far, the illustration for clearing in the owner's manual doesn't make it seem to bad. With the split lifter (the 37 didn't have it), it doesn't look too hard to clear. Are you speaking from personal experience, or just what you've read? I'm guessing it's kind of a non issue, if you maintain your weapon properly. I've personally experienced some bastard jams with the conventional shotgun systems. Usually no jam is a good one when it all counts!
37 does have forked lifter as does BPS all based on Remington Model 1917. The lifter is part of the problem, because it's forked it will slip passed a stuck case tripping the feed latch allowing another cartridge to feed onto it, underneath the empty already in the chamber. The worst jam is when on ejection a lifter arm bends (even slightly) this causes the bent lifter arm to not retract far enough into the recess in the upper reciever. This is what I call the "death" jam as the gun will no longer fully cycle any shell because the exposed arm will continue to knock each fired cartridge off the extractors effecting the same jam over and over and over, requiring you to manually clear the gun after each shot. An 870 cannot have that type of jam and short of extractor failure can consistently be cleared in about 3 seconds. Yes I have experienced, cleared and fixed firearms with these jams. I own this action type as a novel or sporting gun but would never purposely choose a bottom feed eject system like this as a defensive weapon. Hmm, I don't recall the 37 had a forked lifter, but I could be wrong as it's been a few years since I owned and shot one of them. Got any pictures of yours? Lets share? Regardless of someone's perceived view of what will or will not fail, I like my KSG and I'll also stake my life on it as I know how it's maintained. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 8:10:48 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 4/17/2015 8:29:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmm, I don't recall the 37 had a forked lifter, but I could be wrong as it's been a few years since I owned and shot one of them. Got any pictures of yours? Lets share? Regardless of someone's perceived view of what will or will not fail, I like my KSG and I'll also stake my life on it as I know how it's maintained. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's not that it malfs any more or any less than any other platform it's that when it malfs, it can't be cleared quickly enough to save your life. A shotgun with a side ejection port has a visible chamber and a place for the offending jam to clear to rather than blocking the chamber completely with a new shell attempting to load. Law enforcement dropped the 37 from duty in the late '80's early '90's because it became an archaic action and besides cops have sidearms to transition to, hope you do. Yes I have several options that would always be present. I keep hearing about the 'hard to clear jam'. Although I've never experienced one with the KSG so far, the illustration for clearing in the owner's manual doesn't make it seem to bad. With the split lifter (the 37 didn't have it), it doesn't look too hard to clear. Are you speaking from personal experience, or just what you've read? I'm guessing it's kind of a non issue, if you maintain your weapon properly. I've personally experienced some bastard jams with the conventional shotgun systems. Usually no jam is a good one when it all counts!
37 does have forked lifter as does BPS all based on Remington Model 1917. The lifter is part of the problem, because it's forked it will slip passed a stuck case tripping the feed latch allowing another cartridge to feed onto it, underneath the empty already in the chamber. The worst jam is when on ejection a lifter arm bends (even slightly) this causes the bent lifter arm to not retract far enough into the recess in the upper reciever. This is what I call the "death" jam as the gun will no longer fully cycle any shell because the exposed arm will continue to knock each fired cartridge off the extractors effecting the same jam over and over and over, requiring you to manually clear the gun after each shot. An 870 cannot have that type of jam and short of extractor failure can consistently be cleared in about 3 seconds. Yes I have experienced, cleared and fixed firearms with these jams. I own this action type as a novel or sporting gun but would never purposely choose a bottom feed eject system like this as a defensive weapon. Hmm, I don't recall the 37 had a forked lifter, but I could be wrong as it's been a few years since I owned and shot one of them. Got any pictures of yours? Lets share? Regardless of someone's perceived view of what will or will not fail, I like my KSG and I'll also stake my life on it as I know how it's maintained. You do understand that Keltec used the 37 action in designing the KSG right? The lifter is a functional copy of the 37's so is the Browning BPS and all three of them copy the Remington model of 1917 which JMB designed and Ithaca borrowed after the patents expired. The only other mildly successful bottom feed and eject action is the Pedersen designed Remington model 10/29 which is a completely different animal that uses a "flipper" door to load and eject shells and is striker fired. I still don't think you quite get it, it's not a maintenance or user caused issue, it is inherent in the action type. Look up Ithaca lifter on GB or something I have a new Ithaca lifter sitting on my bench (which is a forged piece where the Keltecs is stamped) to replace a bent 37 lifter from a DSPS interestingly enough but I don't have a photo hosting account.... |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 9:02:58 PM EDT
[#20]
Oh I quite understand, and after your last post, I researched and see that the 37 indeed has a forked lifter that looks like the KSG one. Again, it's a matter of opinion how solid the design is.
On maintenance, my point is that I know for maximum effectiveness, only new shells should be used. Uising reloads can cause a plethora of issues in the function and wear of the parts. I suspect that many missfeeds and jams are directly a result of using reloads and not cleaning regularly. That doesn't mean that a weapon is automatically going to fail. Proper inspection with a good deal od common sense and good shells makes all the difference! You sound set in your opinions like me, and I'm always criticized by my Son for being 'Old School'. But I like to keep an open mind. My recent surprise was trying out the 300 AAC. It's like an M1 Carbine on Steroids! Fun to shoot and easy to reload! So in opinions, it's like everyone says, everyone has one. On here it seems like there's always an 'expert' out there  . But you do seem to be up on the subject, so my hats off to you!
Over the years, I've made good choices, and bad ones as well regarding firearms. Where I live kinda mandates a shotgun for most HD. After some careful consideration I choose the KSG, and I really do like it! I haven't found anything to fault it at this point, but I recon time will tell in the long run. As I've gotten older I don't buy on a whim. With the KSG, there's always the 'impress' factor too! Anyone in their right mind will not argue with a 12 gauge barrel pointed at them. The KSG kinda puts an exclamation point on it, in my opinion. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 9:10:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s902.photobucket.com/user/wayneswank/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150417_200615_zpstf7jvmba.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac228/wayneswank/Mobile%20Uploads/20150417_200615_zpstf7jvmba.jpg</a> I like mine as well. I have put around a 100 rounds through it and some rapid fire, not one malfunction. Just a sore shoulder and a big smile.  I have not run any buckshot through it just slugs.Alrighty!
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Posted: 4/17/2015 10:10:14 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s902.photobucket.com/user/wayneswank/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150417_200615_zpstf7jvmba.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac228/wayneswank/Mobile%20Uploads/20150417_200615_zpstf7jvmba.jpg</a> I like mine as well. I have put around a 100 rounds through it and some rapid fire, not one malfunction. Just a sore shoulder and a big smile. I have not run any buckshot through it just slugs.After seeing the pic of what's left of the guy's hand after his vert grip came off when firing, I wouldn't want a grip that close to the muzzle. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 10:47:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Easy! Don't!
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Posted: 4/17/2015 11:05:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Well for one.... you don't bang it like a retard on a drum.
Two.... check your gear before you run it. It only takes a flick of the wrist to chamber another round.
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Posted: 4/18/2015 12:57:01 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh I quite understand, and after your last post, I researched and see that the 37 indeed has a forked lifter that looks like the KSG one. Again, it's a matter of opinion how solid the design is. On maintenance, my point is that I know for maximum effectiveness, only new shells should be used. Uising reloads can cause a plethora of issues in the function and wear of the parts. I suspect that many missfeeds and jams are directly a result of using reloads and not cleaning regularly. That doesn't mean that a weapon is automatically going to fail. Proper inspection with a good deal od common sense and good shells makes all the difference! You sound set in your opinions like me, and I'm always criticized by my Son for being 'Old School'. But I like to keep an open mind. My recent surprise was trying out the 300 AAC. It's like an M1 Carbine on Steroids! Fun to shoot and easy to reload! So in opinions, it's like everyone says, everyone has one. On here it seems like there's always an 'expert' out there . But you do seem to be up on the subject, so my hats off to you!
Over the years, I've made good choices, and bad ones as well regarding firearms. Where I live kinda mandates a shotgun for most HD. After some careful consideration I choose the KSG, and I really do like it! I haven't found anything to fault it at this point, but I recon time will tell in the long run. As I've gotten older I don't buy on a whim. With the KSG, there's always the 'impress' factor too! Anyone in their right mind will not argue with a 12 gauge barrel pointed at them. The KSG kinda puts an exclamation point on it, in my opinion. I'm not trying to dissuade you from liking your shotgun. I have tried the platform and while fun to shoot it had more functional negatives than positives for me to adopt mainly things like having to turn the gun upside down to chamber check, ability to reload while keeping the gun on target, not being able to chamber load an empty gun/select slug having to be run from the mag tube not the chamber and obviously my experience with the 37 feed issues. Those are my functional or objective negatives, my opinion based negatives or subjective negatives were poor/uncomfortable cheekweld, excessive felt recoil (which I can handle but it added to the negatives) excessive muzzle blast (an expected negative giving proximity to muzzle) and the example I was firing was rough cycling. I hope you enjoy your shotgun but be aware that if Murphy calls during an engagement clearing that weapon will be a tough job under stress as it isn't as straight forward as the clearance drill for the side ejects. I once had an 870 throw a shell latch during hunting and while it slowed racking the gun the gun could still cycle enough using clearance drills to bag 9 more birds. I prefer Mossbergs now due to safety location and lack of staked and riveted parts like shell latches and ejectors. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 1:43:36 PM EDT
[#26]
I have a KSG and love it, but do not trust it's quality enough to make it a reliable and dependable defense shotgun. The trigger group broke on the 74th shot and I had to send it back for them to replace it, in addition to them polishing the bore. It does not matter what "gen" or interation of KSG version, new or old to base whether the KSG is reliable or not, the problem with the KSG is due to inconsistent quality/tolerance control and manufacturing from Keltec. There are good ones and there are bad ones, hard to say which you will get when you buy one. Even new ones off the line now still have problems that arised years ago.
If you aren't aware, check out the KSG subforum over on KTOG forum. Lots of useful information and great folks over there. I've had a few breacher devices on mine in the past, and recommend the Hi-Tech short Crusher breacher. Got the first one off the line to test and stuck with it since...great breacher because it's short and light, steel instead of aluminum for durability, and functions as a real breacher if needed. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 5:46:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a KSG and love it, but do not trust it's quality enough to make it a reliable and dependable defense shotgun. The trigger group broke on the 74th shot and I had to send it back for them to replace it, in addition to them polishing the bore. It does not matter what "gen" or interation of KSG version, new or old to base whether the KSG is reliable or not, the problem with the KSG is due to inconsistent quality/tolerance control and manufacturing from Keltec. There are good ones and there are bad ones, hard to say which you will get when you buy one. Even new ones off the line now still have problems that arised years ago. If you aren't aware, check out the KSG subforum over on KTOG forum. Lots of useful information and great folks over there. I've had a few breacher devices on mine in the past, and recommend the Hi-Tech short Crusher breacher. Got the first one off the line to test and stuck with it since...great breacher because it's short and light, steel instead of aluminum for durability, and functions as a real breacher if needed. With all that said, it is important to mention that Kel Tec has a lifetime warranty on the KSG. Also I believe that many currently produced firearms (not all) suffer from quality and tolerance issues. It's the old saying "they don't make them like they used to!", and in today's world it's true! |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 12:04:21 AM EDT
[#28]
Omega, unless you had the chance to experience the "lifetime warranty" process of Keltec, especially for the KSG, than you really don't know what that lifetime warranty is like. I have, and it took them 2 months after I shipped it out to get my KSG back for something as simple as taking the broken plastic lower receiver unit off and replacing it with a new one....all of 1 minute max, even if that, to do yourself. Sending me a new lower to swap out and me sending the broken one back was a no-no, and they wanted the whole KSG sent in. I can understand that they wanted to make sure there's nothing else wrong with the thing and to test fire it, but there's reports over on KTOG that the they had to send their KSG back a few times for the same part breaking, again. You can see how dragged out this process can get.
They also polished my bore because some shells were very difficult to load and extract without forcefully yanking on the foregrip (close to having to "mortar" to get the spent shells extracted sometimes) almost every other round. This 2 months wait, is after you can try to get a hold of someone on the phone or by email first, to get the process going. Good luck with your KSG and I hope it runs like a well-oiled machine. As for mine, I had hopes that it would be my go-to for home defense...but now it stays as a fancy range toy. Here is my KSG with the Hi-Tech Crusher Breacher mounted to test before it was released. My KSG has since seen a few items added to it, but I don't have a current picture. 
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Posted: 4/21/2015 12:28:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Omega, unless you had the chance to experience the "lifetime warranty" process of Keltec, especially for the KSG, than you really don't know what that lifetime warranty is like. I have, and it took them 2 months after I shipped it out to get my KSG back for something as simple as taking the broken plastic lower receiver unit off and replacing it with a new one....all of 1 minute max, even if that, to do yourself. Sending me a new lower to swap out and me sending the broken one back was a no-no, and they wanted the whole KSG sent in. I can understand that they wanted to make sure there's nothing else wrong with the thing and to test fire it, but there's reports over on KTOG that the they had to send their KSG back a few times for the same part breaking, again. You can see how dragged out this process can get. They also polished my bore because some shells were very difficult to load and extract without forcefully yanking on the foregrip (close to having to "mortar" to get the spent shells extracted sometimes) almost every other round. This 2 months wait, is after you can try to get a hold of someone on the phone or by email first, to get the process going. Good luck with your KSG and I hope it runs like a well-oiled machine. As for mine, I had hopes that it would be my go-to for home defense...but now it stays as a fancy range toy. Here is my KSG with the Hi-Tech Crusher Breacher mounted to test before it was released. My KSG has since seen a few items added to it, but I don't have a current picture. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii190/v6pwr/2014-03-30%2019.06.45_zpstt7t0ltc.jpg After a friend sent his RFB back twice for same issue and his PMR 30 back 3 times he gave up on Keltec altogether. He sold the PMR upon return on trip 3 and he bought a SCAR 17 after selling the RFB. He really wanted the PMR to work though. While I've fired almost all of Keltec's products at one time or another my only purchase has been the P3AT and that runs fine as long as you don't use hollow points (I know..right? ) so it's loaded with Corbon Powerball ammo.
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Posted: 4/21/2015 9:36:02 AM EDT
[#30]
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Omega, unless you had the chance to experience the "lifetime warranty" process of Keltec, especially for the KSG, than you really don't know what that lifetime warranty is like. I have, and it took them 2 months after I shipped it out to get my KSG back for something as simple as taking the broken plastic lower receiver unit off and replacing it with a new one....all of 1 minute max, even if that, to do yourself. Sending me a new lower to swap out and me sending the broken one back was a no-no, and they wanted the whole KSG sent in. I can understand that they wanted to make sure there's nothing else wrong with the thing and to test fire it, but there's reports over on KTOG that the they had to send their KSG back a few times for the same part breaking, again. You can see how dragged out this process can get. They also polished my bore because some shells were very difficult to load and extract without forcefully yanking on the foregrip (close to having to "mortar" to get the spent shells extracted sometimes) almost every other round. This 2 months wait, is after you can try to get a hold of someone on the phone or by email first, to get the process going. Good luck with your KSG and I hope it runs like a well-oiled machine. As for mine, I had hopes that it would be my go-to for home defense...but now it stays as a fancy range toy. Here is my KSG with the Hi-Tech Crusher Breacher mounted to test before it was released. My KSG has since seen a few items added to it, but I don't have a current picture. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii190/v6pwr/2014-03-30%2019.06.45_zpstt7t0ltc.jpg Sounds like I should hope to not have to send it in in! But I know from experience that it's a real bitch to send anything back for repair or warranty work. I've sent a couple of different thermal scopes in for repair work, and it seemed to take forever. Seems like those places go into slo mo mode on those things. The breacher you have on yours is the one I plan on getting. I'm just trying to convince myself to spend the money that they want for one. I don't quite understand how they price it at $65? |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 11:22:23 AM EDT
[#31]
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Sounds like I should hope to not have to send it in in! But I know from experience that it's a real bitch to send anything back for repair or warranty work. I've sent a couple of different thermal scopes in for repair work, and it seemed to take forever. Seems like those places go into slo mo mode on those things. The breacher you have on yours is the one I plan on getting. I'm just trying to convince myself to spend the money that they want for one. I don't quite understand how they price it at $65? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Omega, unless you had the chance to experience the "lifetime warranty" process of Keltec, especially for the KSG, than you really don't know what that lifetime warranty is like. I have, and it took them 2 months after I shipped it out to get my KSG back for something as simple as taking the broken plastic lower receiver unit off and replacing it with a new one....all of 1 minute max, even if that, to do yourself. Sending me a new lower to swap out and me sending the broken one back was a no-no, and they wanted the whole KSG sent in. I can understand that they wanted to make sure there's nothing else wrong with the thing and to test fire it, but there's reports over on KTOG that the they had to send their KSG back a few times for the same part breaking, again. You can see how dragged out this process can get. They also polished my bore because some shells were very difficult to load and extract without forcefully yanking on the foregrip (close to having to "mortar" to get the spent shells extracted sometimes) almost every other round. This 2 months wait, is after you can try to get a hold of someone on the phone or by email first, to get the process going. Good luck with your KSG and I hope it runs like a well-oiled machine. As for mine, I had hopes that it would be my go-to for home defense...but now it stays as a fancy range toy. Here is my KSG with the Hi-Tech Crusher Breacher mounted to test before it was released. My KSG has since seen a few items added to it, but I don't have a current picture. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii190/v6pwr/2014-03-30%2019.06.45_zpstt7t0ltc.jpg Sounds like I should hope to not have to send it in in! But I know from experience that it's a real bitch to send anything back for repair or warranty work. I've sent a couple of different thermal scopes in for repair work, and it seemed to take forever. Seems like those places go into slo mo mode on those things. The breacher you have on yours is the one I plan on getting. I'm just trying to convince myself to spend the money that they want for one. I don't quite understand how they price it at $65? Because they're carrying a note on a CNC...you'd have to sell one hell of alot of $20 breachers to pay for a $150,000 machine. |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 11:43:20 AM EDT
[#32]
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Because they're carrying a note on a CNC...you'd have to sell one hell of alot of $20 breachers to pay for a $150,000 machine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Omega, unless you had the chance to experience the "lifetime warranty" process of Keltec, especially for the KSG, than you really don't know what that lifetime warranty is like. I have, and it took them 2 months after I shipped it out to get my KSG back for something as simple as taking the broken plastic lower receiver unit off and replacing it with a new one....all of 1 minute max, even if that, to do yourself. Sending me a new lower to swap out and me sending the broken one back was a no-no, and they wanted the whole KSG sent in. I can understand that they wanted to make sure there's nothing else wrong with the thing and to test fire it, but there's reports over on KTOG that the they had to send their KSG back a few times for the same part breaking, again. You can see how dragged out this process can get. They also polished my bore because some shells were very difficult to load and extract without forcefully yanking on the foregrip (close to having to "mortar" to get the spent shells extracted sometimes) almost every other round. This 2 months wait, is after you can try to get a hold of someone on the phone or by email first, to get the process going. Good luck with your KSG and I hope it runs like a well-oiled machine. As for mine, I had hopes that it would be my go-to for home defense...but now it stays as a fancy range toy. Here is my KSG with the Hi-Tech Crusher Breacher mounted to test before it was released. My KSG has since seen a few items added to it, but I don't have a current picture. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii190/v6pwr/2014-03-30%2019.06.45_zpstt7t0ltc.jpg Sounds like I should hope to not have to send it in in! But I know from experience that it's a real bitch to send anything back for repair or warranty work. I've sent a couple of different thermal scopes in for repair work, and it seemed to take forever. Seems like those places go into slo mo mode on those things. The breacher you have on yours is the one I plan on getting. I'm just trying to convince myself to spend the money that they want for one. I don't quite understand how they price it at $65? Because they're carrying a note on a CNC...you'd have to sell one hell of alot of $20 breachers to pay for a $150,000 machine. That would be true if it was dedicated to only making breachers. It would be a bit foolish and not very cost effective, for that to be the case...........
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Posted: 4/21/2015 11:50:00 AM EDT
[#33]
When you start looking at brakes/breacher options for the KSG, they will all cost in that range, if not more, for a good quality one. I still have a Carolina Metal Masters breacher that is also awesome. It costs more than this HT breacher and made of forged aluminum...I prefer steel. HT also makes a lower metal rail that goes over the plastic KSG one, if you are wanting something beefy and not have the plastic rail's teeth break off based on what grip you are using.
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Posted: 4/21/2015 12:38:14 PM EDT
[#34]
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That would be true if it was dedicated to only making breachers. It would be a bit foolish and not very cost effective, for that to be the case...........
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Omega, unless you had the chance to experience the "lifetime warranty" process of Keltec, especially for the KSG, than you really don't know what that lifetime warranty is like. I have, and it took them 2 months after I shipped it out to get my KSG back for something as simple as taking the broken plastic lower receiver unit off and replacing it with a new one....all of 1 minute max, even if that, to do yourself. Sending me a new lower to swap out and me sending the broken one back was a no-no, and they wanted the whole KSG sent in. I can understand that they wanted to make sure there's nothing else wrong with the thing and to test fire it, but there's reports over on KTOG that the they had to send their KSG back a few times for the same part breaking, again. You can see how dragged out this process can get. They also polished my bore because some shells were very difficult to load and extract without forcefully yanking on the foregrip (close to having to "mortar" to get the spent shells extracted sometimes) almost every other round. This 2 months wait, is after you can try to get a hold of someone on the phone or by email first, to get the process going. Good luck with your KSG and I hope it runs like a well-oiled machine. As for mine, I had hopes that it would be my go-to for home defense...but now it stays as a fancy range toy. Here is my KSG with the Hi-Tech Crusher Breacher mounted to test before it was released. My KSG has since seen a few items added to it, but I don't have a current picture. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii190/v6pwr/2014-03-30%2019.06.45_zpstt7t0ltc.jpg Sounds like I should hope to not have to send it in in! But I know from experience that it's a real bitch to send anything back for repair or warranty work. I've sent a couple of different thermal scopes in for repair work, and it seemed to take forever. Seems like those places go into slo mo mode on those things. The breacher you have on yours is the one I plan on getting. I'm just trying to convince myself to spend the money that they want for one. I don't quite understand how they price it at $65? Because they're carrying a note on a CNC...you'd have to sell one hell of alot of $20 breachers to pay for a $150,000 machine. That would be true if it was dedicated to only making breachers. It would be a bit foolish and not very cost effective, for that to be the case...........
Set up programming and the fact that specialty components are a niche market my bet is margins are low. |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 1:38:38 PM EDT
[#35]
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Set up programming and the fact that specialty components are a niche market my bet is margins are low. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Omega, unless you had the chance to experience the "lifetime warranty" process of Keltec, especially for the KSG, than you really don't know what that lifetime warranty is like. I have, and it took them 2 months after I shipped it out to get my KSG back for something as simple as taking the broken plastic lower receiver unit off and replacing it with a new one....all of 1 minute max, even if that, to do yourself. Sending me a new lower to swap out and me sending the broken one back was a no-no, and they wanted the whole KSG sent in. I can understand that they wanted to make sure there's nothing else wrong with the thing and to test fire it, but there's reports over on KTOG that the they had to send their KSG back a few times for the same part breaking, again. You can see how dragged out this process can get. They also polished my bore because some shells were very difficult to load and extract without forcefully yanking on the foregrip (close to having to "mortar" to get the spent shells extracted sometimes) almost every other round. This 2 months wait, is after you can try to get a hold of someone on the phone or by email first, to get the process going. Good luck with your KSG and I hope it runs like a well-oiled machine. As for mine, I had hopes that it would be my go-to for home defense...but now it stays as a fancy range toy. Here is my KSG with the Hi-Tech Crusher Breacher mounted to test before it was released. My KSG has since seen a few items added to it, but I don't have a current picture. http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii190/v6pwr/2014-03-30%2019.06.45_zpstt7t0ltc.jpg Sounds like I should hope to not have to send it in in! But I know from experience that it's a real bitch to send anything back for repair or warranty work. I've sent a couple of different thermal scopes in for repair work, and it seemed to take forever. Seems like those places go into slo mo mode on those things. The breacher you have on yours is the one I plan on getting. I'm just trying to convince myself to spend the money that they want for one. I don't quite understand how they price it at $65? Because they're carrying a note on a CNC...you'd have to sell one hell of alot of $20 breachers to pay for a $150,000 machine. That would be true if it was dedicated to only making breachers. It would be a bit foolish and not very cost effective, for that to be the case...........
Set up programming and the fact that specialty components are a niche market my bet is margins are low. There's no point to bantering about it, but CNC programming isn't that tough. I've taken the course myself before I retired, and it's only a couple of weeks long. As far as a niche market, that is correct, but also why I say having a CNC machine dedicated only to a breacher would be just silly. My bet is they are subcontracted out somewhere that specializes in machining jobs. No big deal about it! I just think the price is too high, as I know they aren't a hand made item. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 5:34:28 PM EDT
[#36]
It's kind of a funny thing. Earlier in this post there were references made to the design similarity of the Ithaca 37 and the KSG, and the supposed problems with feeding and ejecting from the same opening. The latest issue of the American Rifleman has an extensive writeup on the Ithaca 37 in it, and it doesn't mention any issues at all. It mentions how widely used it was by all types of military and commercial action, including Vietnam, with no mention of any sort of issues that were previously mentioned! On the contrary there's much implied about it being a reliable firearm!
How could the Rifleman have got it so wrong?
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Posted: 4/23/2015 9:41:53 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's kind of a funny thing. Earlier in this post there were references made to the design similarity of the Ithaca 37 and the KSG, and the supposed problems with feeding and ejecting from the same opening. The latest issue of the American Rifleman has an extensive writeup on the Ithaca 37 in it, and it doesn't mention any issues at all. It mentions how widely used it was by all types of military and commercial action, including Vietnam, with no mention of any sort of issues that were previously mentioned! On the contrary there's much implied about it being a reliable firearm! How could the Rifleman have got it so wrong? Ithaca 37's from both WWII and Vietnam were not widely issued as a matter of fact that is what make them the most rare of the service issued shotguns. There may have been only about 4,000-5,000 total guns from both wars. The action was liked because it was more protected from weather in a jungle environment and it served in a limited role mostly pointman and tunnel rat duty all with the the backup of platoon and squad sized patrols. Tunnel rats used pistols for backup. Police service was mainly with LAPD, NYPD and LVPD and while liked I doubt they were shot as much as handguns. American Rifleman is about selling guns and keeping American gun manufacturers busy I'd hardly call them thorough in their analysis. Hell I've seen examples of US martial shotguns that directly conflict with Canfields suppositions on the qualifications of "correct" and "original". I can only say from experience that when that action type jams in cycling you have a club or at the very least a fucked gun for a few minutes which is a looonnngg time in a gunfight. Edit: I was wrong about production WWII was only 1,420. Vietnam totals were 22,500. I read an initial 3,300 were produced but that was first contract. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 5:23:09 PM EDT
[#38]
Yep! Gotta love the 'experts' that have all that great knowledge better than a NRA publication! So I guess I should ignore any further articles the Rifleman writes as they are so inaccurate or incorrect?
Actually I think I'll stake my faith in the NRA publication, as I've found it to be both factual and accurate for many years now as an NRA life member and reader of the publication since the 70s! But opinions are like assholes! Everybody has one! 
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Posted: 4/23/2015 6:14:56 PM EDT
[#39]
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Yep! Gotta love the 'experts' that have all that great knowledge better than a NRA publication! So I guess I should ignore any further articles the Rifleman writes as they are so inaccurate or incorrect?
Actually I think I'll stake my faith in the NRA publication, as I've found it to be both factual and accurate for many years now as an NRA life member and reader of the publication since the 70s! But opinions are like assholes! Everybody has one!
Believe whoever you wanna believe, dude. Have you personally experienced a failure of this action? All I am saying is that WHEN it fails it is a bitch to correct. Murphy's law states that "Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong and at the worst possible moment." "Can" is the operative word there. I try to limit the "can" factor and make sure that if it can happen there is an expedient contingency to remedy the issue on a defensive firearm. I choose personal experience to guide me. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 8:44:41 PM EDT
[#40]
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Believe whoever you wanna believe, dude. Have you personally experienced a failure of this action? All I am saying is that WHEN it fails it is a bitch to correct. Murphy's law states that "Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong and at the worst possible moment." "Can" is the operative word there. I try to limit the "can" factor and make sure that if it can happen there is an expedient contingency to remedy the issue on a defensive firearm. I choose personal experience to guide me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yep! Gotta love the 'experts' that have all that great knowledge better than a NRA publication! So I guess I should ignore any further articles the Rifleman writes as they are so inaccurate or incorrect?
Actually I think I'll stake my faith in the NRA publication, as I've found it to be both factual and accurate for many years now as an NRA life member and reader of the publication since the 70s! But opinions are like assholes! Everybody has one!
Believe whoever you wanna believe, dude. Have you personally experienced a failure of this action? All I am saying is that WHEN it fails it is a bitch to correct. Murphy's law states that "Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong and at the worst possible moment." "Can" is the operative word there. I try to limit the "can" factor and make sure that if it can happen there is an expedient contingency to remedy the issue on a defensive firearm. I choose personal experience to guide me. Mainly what I'm saying is that there is NO PERFECT FUNCTIONING FIREARM! Anyone that tries to give that assumption is full of it plain and simple! I don't think that you have any credentials that would put your word the gospel over what the NRA publication says. Everyone has an opinion, and yours it just that, without credentials! Yours is not any different than any other Gomer that seems full of advice on here! That's how I measure what you are saying, plain and simple! 
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:08:27 PM EDT
[#41]
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Mainly what I'm saying is that there is NO PERFECT FUNCTIONING FIREARM! Anyone that tries to give that assumption is full of it plain and simple! I don't think that you have any credentials that would put your word the gospel over what the NRA publication says. Everyone has an opinion, and yours it just that, without credentials! Yours is not any different than any other Gomer that seems full of advice on here! That's how I measure what you are saying, plain and simple! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yep! Gotta love the 'experts' that have all that great knowledge better than a NRA publication! So I guess I should ignore any further articles the Rifleman writes as they are so inaccurate or incorrect?
Actually I think I'll stake my faith in the NRA publication, as I've found it to be both factual and accurate for many years now as an NRA life member and reader of the publication since the 70s! But opinions are like assholes! Everybody has one!
Believe whoever you wanna believe, dude. Have you personally experienced a failure of this action? All I am saying is that WHEN it fails it is a bitch to correct. Murphy's law states that "Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong and at the worst possible moment." "Can" is the operative word there. I try to limit the "can" factor and make sure that if it can happen there is an expedient contingency to remedy the issue on a defensive firearm. I choose personal experience to guide me. Mainly what I'm saying is that there is NO PERFECT FUNCTIONING FIREARM! Anyone that tries to give that assumption is full of it plain and simple! I don't think that you have any credentials that would put your word the gospel over what the NRA publication says. Everyone has an opinion, and yours it just that, without credentials! Yours is not any different than any other Gomer that seems full of advice on here! That's how I measure what you are saying, plain and simple! Look up clearance drills for the Remington 870 on Youtube and watch them then try to understand that a similar doctrine does not exist for the KSG or any other model shotgun utilizing that action type. Doctrine regarding shotgun has changed a great deal since that action type became anachronistic. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:26:24 PM EDT
[#42]
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Look up clearance drills for the Remington 870 on Youtube and watch them then try to understand that a similar doctrine does not exist for the KSG or any other model shotgun utilizing that action type. Doctrine regarding shotgun has changed a great deal since that action type became anachronistic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Yep! Gotta love the 'experts' that have all that great knowledge better than a NRA publication! So I guess I should ignore any further articles the Rifleman writes as they are so inaccurate or incorrect?
Actually I think I'll stake my faith in the NRA publication, as I've found it to be both factual and accurate for many years now as an NRA life member and reader of the publication since the 70s! But opinions are like assholes! Everybody has one!
Believe whoever you wanna believe, dude. Have you personally experienced a failure of this action? All I am saying is that WHEN it fails it is a bitch to correct. Murphy's law states that "Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong and at the worst possible moment." "Can" is the operative word there. I try to limit the "can" factor and make sure that if it can happen there is an expedient contingency to remedy the issue on a defensive firearm. I choose personal experience to guide me. Mainly what I'm saying is that there is NO PERFECT FUNCTIONING FIREARM! Anyone that tries to give that assumption is full of it plain and simple! I don't think that you have any credentials that would put your word the gospel over what the NRA publication says. Everyone has an opinion, and yours it just that, without credentials! Yours is not any different than any other Gomer that seems full of advice on here! That's how I measure what you are saying, plain and simple! Look up clearance drills for the Remington 870 on Youtube and watch them then try to understand that a similar doctrine does not exist for the KSG or any other model shotgun utilizing that action type. Doctrine regarding shotgun has changed a great deal since that action type became anachronistic. All of that relates to what is currently the accepted shotgun for duty. The KSG never has been, and the 37 hasn't been for years. I feel the 870 is hands down the best choice, and have never professed otherwise. The KSG is on the table though, but there seems to be those that find fault with it no matter what. All I'm saying is that for the most part, it's no worse than many of the others. But there are the Gomer experts on here that will tell you otherwise, no matter what! That is just plain wrong, as far as I'm concerned! I've been messing around with firearms for well over 50 years, and there seems to be no shortage of the young experts out there that of of a sudden think they know everything about firearms. It gets a little old after awhile, and I can't keep my mouth shut about it the older I get!
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:08:57 PM EDT
[#43]
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All of that relates to what is currently the accepted shotgun for duty. The KSG never has been, and the 37 hasn't been for years. I feel the 870 is hands down the best choice, and have never professed otherwise. The KSG is on the table though, but there seems to be those that find fault with it no matter what. All I'm saying is that for the most part, it's no worse than many of the others. But there are the Gomer experts on here that will tell you otherwise, no matter what! That is just plain wrong, as far as I'm concerned! I've been messing around with firearms for well over 50 years, and there seems to be no shortage of the young experts out there that of of a sudden think they know everything about firearms. It gets a little old after awhile, and I can't keep my mouth shut about it the older I get!
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yep! Gotta love the 'experts' that have all that great knowledge better than a NRA publication! So I guess I should ignore any further articles the Rifleman writes as they are so inaccurate or incorrect?
Actually I think I'll stake my faith in the NRA publication, as I've found it to be both factual and accurate for many years now as an NRA life member and reader of the publication since the 70s! But opinions are like assholes! Everybody has one!
Believe whoever you wanna believe, dude. Have you personally experienced a failure of this action? All I am saying is that WHEN it fails it is a bitch to correct. Murphy's law states that "Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong and at the worst possible moment." "Can" is the operative word there. I try to limit the "can" factor and make sure that if it can happen there is an expedient contingency to remedy the issue on a defensive firearm. I choose personal experience to guide me. Mainly what I'm saying is that there is NO PERFECT FUNCTIONING FIREARM! Anyone that tries to give that assumption is full of it plain and simple! I don't think that you have any credentials that would put your word the gospel over what the NRA publication says. Everyone has an opinion, and yours it just that, without credentials! Yours is not any different than any other Gomer that seems full of advice on here! That's how I measure what you are saying, plain and simple! Look up clearance drills for the Remington 870 on Youtube and watch them then try to understand that a similar doctrine does not exist for the KSG or any other model shotgun utilizing that action type. Doctrine regarding shotgun has changed a great deal since that action type became anachronistic. All of that relates to what is currently the accepted shotgun for duty. The KSG never has been, and the 37 hasn't been for years. I feel the 870 is hands down the best choice, and have never professed otherwise. The KSG is on the table though, but there seems to be those that find fault with it no matter what. All I'm saying is that for the most part, it's no worse than many of the others. But there are the Gomer experts on here that will tell you otherwise, no matter what! That is just plain wrong, as far as I'm concerned! I've been messing around with firearms for well over 50 years, and there seems to be no shortage of the young experts out there that of of a sudden think they know everything about firearms. It gets a little old after awhile, and I can't keep my mouth shut about it the older I get!
I'm 46 and have been exposed to many firearms in my lifetime. My father's favorite firearms were the 1911 and the Ithaca 37. He hunted with a 37 Deer Slayer for most of my life. I do understand the actions shortcomings well. I have fixed that action and many others. Keltec erroneously refers to the malf as a "double feed" which is not what it is, it's actually an FTE but it creates a situation whereby another shell ends up on the lifter along with the unejected shell sitting above it. A double feed is where as one shell is fed into the chamber another shell bypasses the shell latch an ends up on the lifter below the chambered round a simple fix in a side ejection gun. An FTE is a simple fix in a side ejection gun. In a 37 style action the problem is that the feed system creates the complications of both malfunctions at once from just the FTE and you're left with only one port (under the action no less) to clear both problems before you can feed or fire another round. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:24:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Lot's of useless dick bumping in this thread....
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:45:17 PM EDT
[#45]
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Lot's of useless dick bumping in this thread.... Beats no action at all... |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:53:29 PM EDT
[#46]
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Beats no action at all... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lot's of useless dick bumping in this thread.... Beats no action at all... Well, you all got that working for you I reckon'............ |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:56:36 PM EDT
[#47]
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Beats no action at all... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lot's of useless dick bumping in this thread.... Beats no action at all... Well, you all got that working for you I reckon'............ BTW, I know tsg68 knows his stuff and OmegamanX seems knowledgeable, how 'bout we say carry/use what you want and don't worry about what others do? |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 9:53:15 AM EDT
[#48]
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Well, you all got that working for you I reckon'............ BTW, I know tsg68 knows his stuff and OmegamanX seems knowledgeable, how 'bout we say carry/use what you want and don't worry about what others do? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lot's of useless dick bumping in this thread.... Beats no action at all... Well, you all got that working for you I reckon'............ BTW, I know tsg68 knows his stuff and OmegamanX seems knowledgeable, how 'bout we say carry/use what you want and don't worry about what others do? I agree with that! Kinda what I've been saying all along. One's not much better than the other, in most cases. It's all a matter of what you prefer.
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Posted: 4/25/2015 3:19:08 AM EDT
[#50]
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Plus, everybody knows that the Winchester Model 12 is King of all shotguns and should be used in all situations.......... <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/kilrain/media/Stuff%20for%20sale/20150424_211431%20Medium_zpsp8dgqx5i.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/kilrain/Stuff%20for%20sale/20150424_211431%20Medium_zpsp8dgqx5i.jpg</a> BAH! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lot's of useless dick bumping in this thread.... Beats no action at all... Well, you all got that working for you I reckon'............ BTW, I know tsg68 knows his stuff and OmegamanX seems knowledgeable, how 'bout we say carry/use what you want and don't worry about what others do? I agree with that! Kinda what I've been saying all along. One's not much better than the other, in most cases. It's all a matter of what you prefer.
Plus, everybody knows that the Winchester Model 12 is King of all shotguns and should be used in all situations.......... <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/kilrain/media/Stuff%20for%20sale/20150424_211431%20Medium_zpsp8dgqx5i.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/kilrain/Stuff%20for%20sale/20150424_211431%20Medium_zpsp8dgqx5i.jpg</a> BAH! Lol! Now if I could find one at my price that isnt a total basketcase! |
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