Philippine-manufactured 1911's

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Philippine-manufactured 1911's (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 1/10/2017 7:07:59 PM EDT

These are sold here in the US under various brands - Rock Island, Cimarron, Citadel, Iver Johnson, etc. Many are in the $400-ish range. Any positive/negative experiences with this particular 1911?

Posted: 1/10/2017 7:47:27 PM EDT

[#1]

I have one, a RIA MS.

Positive as to reliability.

Negative on cosmetics.

Though the newer ones seem to have improved cosmetically as well.

Posted: 1/10/2017 8:15:51 PM EDT

[#2]

I have one of the non-rebranded S.A.M. guns. Decent, low-end 1911.

Posted: 1/10/2017 8:26:45 PM EDT

[#3]

I have the Rock Island GI with custom grips. It eats anything I feed it. Plenty accurate. Best buy on a 1911 going. Check out the Rock Island thread on 1911.com . Lot of good info on there.

Posted: 1/10/2017 8:35:27 PM EDT

[#4]

Both of mine run like raped apes.
SAM and RI

Posted: 1/10/2017 8:44:37 PM EDT

[#5]

I have shot a bunch of them. They are solid guns for the money. Don't plan to sink money into it. If you want to build up a 1911, start with a Springfield or a Caspian/Foster frame.

Posted: 1/10/2017 8:54:01 PM EDT

[#6]

For the money they are good guns. They aren't pretty but they work. And they are not something to buy with the intentions of upgrading IMO.

Posted: 1/10/2017 10:40:59 PM EDT

[#7]

They can make beautiful 1911's as this Cimarron model shows.

Posted: 1/10/2017 11:05:39 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
They can make beautiful 1911's as this Cimarron model shows.

https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15826867_1301081573284096_7040001870672485579_n.jpg?oh=5fd1e27e3740df7805602c7ffde8428b&oe=58D7EB38

View Quote

Go on...

Posted: 1/10/2017 11:16:50 PM EDT

[#9]

I have the Rock Island CS 3.5" bbl .45 M1911-A1 (with the chrome barrel, beavertail gs, and novak-like combat sights). So far it feeds just fine with S&B and Winchester fmj 230 g (250 rds starting with a detailed cleaned firearm). Accuracy is just fine too if I do my part. As for detail strip, Rock Islands contain plenty of MIM -- I recall that the sear, disco, hammer, slidestop for sure. The extractor had machining marks on it from being turned, not MIM. Overall, Rock Island is using well manufactured MIM parts. From what I've seen with these pistols regarding other people's experience, it's prudent to replace the firing pin spring to maintain higher tension behind the firing pin stop to prevent it from shooing loose.

Posted: 1/11/2017 12:15:00 PM EDT

[#10]

My RIA GI style is my EDC.

Posted: 1/11/2017 12:56:31 PM EDT

[#11]

One of the reasons I like firearms so much is the fact that I have a wide variety of "Made in America" to chose from. S&W revolvers, Colt 1911's, AR-15's, and Remington 700's come to mind. I own foreign firearms, but I pick the high end models like SIG, H&K's Beretta's or even Glock's. The Glock's are a value based purchase on my part. They are a quality firearm at a reasonable price.

I treat my foreign beater firearms like red headed step children. AK's and SKS rifles get abused and neglected.

Economy firearms turn me off.

Posted: 1/11/2017 1:09:36 PM EDT

[#12]

I have an early RIA in .38 Super. The nickel finish is OK, but not as good as a high end gun. It works perfectly, so for $350 I'm very satisfied.

My son has a .22 TCM, and a 10mm "Big Rock." Fit and finish are nice, and both guns work very well. The TCM is a hoot!

Posted: 1/11/2017 3:05:48 PM EDT

[#13]

I have one of the base model Rock Islands. It works. Completely reliable, decently accurate, surprisingly nice trigger. I upgraded the sights (GI sights and sixty year old eyes just don't mesh) and added an arched mainspring housing and Keyes Fiber grips and call it my GI clone.

They are an excellent entry level pistol for the 1911 world. RIA has excellent customer service should you ever need them, which you probably won't.

Posted: 1/11/2017 3:21:04 PM EDT

[#14]

So they're cheap and they work, but total crap for fit & finish?

Posted: 1/11/2017 3:29:04 PM EDT

[#15]

Rock Island GI with a few upgrades chambered in 9x23.

Posted: 1/11/2017 4:05:54 PM EDT

[#16]

Well, according to my brother-in-law who has owned a couple of these, any 1911 coming out of the Philippines is complete junk and should be avoided. Guess it depends on who you talk to.

Posted: 1/11/2017 4:16:24 PM EDT

[#17]

Opinions are like assholes.

Posted: 1/11/2017 4:28:18 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
Opinions are like assholes.

View Quote

Boy, you got that right.

I've read a ton of reviews on the various Philiippy-made 1911s, and they run the gamut from "better than a high-end custom Colt" to "low-budget, unreliable MIM-junk - majorly avoid."

It would be nice if there was a consistent consensus.

Posted: 1/11/2017 4:31:14 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
So they're cheap and they work, but total crap for fit & finish?

View Quote

I would call the finish basic, not crap. Most are a brushed blue or parkerized type finish. Internally they are fine. Not a custom tuned 1911 by any means but better than what you would expect on a $400 pistol.

You have to keep the price point in mind and have realistic expectations.

Posted: 1/11/2017 5:45:48 PM EDT

[#20]

I have a Charles Daley that I've upgraded with better sights and small part replacement. Runs 100%. While it won't win any beauty contest it works and I use it as a practice gun vs some of my higher-end 1911's.

Posted: 1/11/2017 8:22:59 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
For the money they are good guns. They aren't pretty but they work. And they are not something to buy with the intentions of upgrading IMO.

View Quote

As already posted, we all know about opinions, and you definitely have the right to yours.

I upgraded my RIA. The key word here being "my". I did the work myself, both to gain experience, and hopefully to improve the pistol.

I think I succeeded. I can remove the nice aftermarket parts if I need to, so most of what I have in the way of sunk costs is my labor, and part of that I do believe can be attributed to educational costs.

Yes, if you are going to pay some one to do the work of upgrading, installing/fitting new parts, re-finishing, whatever, then yes, I agree that they are not worthy of upgrading. If, you are a 1911 enthusiast, who wants to learn how to work on your own pistols, then they make good test beds.

My prettiest build to date is on a Caspian frame. I got the confidence to put that one together because of my experience working on a Rock Island Armory pistol. There is no way I can expect to retrieve my expenses on that pistol, but that wasn't the point of the exercise.

Rocks are like Dodges. You buy one, and shoot/drive it into the ground.

Posted: 1/11/2017 9:06:19 PM EDT

[#22]

I picked up a RIA 1911A1 "tactical" model (beaver tail safety, Ambi safety, with skelontized hammer and trigger) a few weeks before Xmas and have loved it so far. Granted I picked it up as a "just cause" gun. Because I think everyone should have one 1911 "just cause". I can bang 66% ISPC steel with it at 50 yards with nearly every shot. And it's ran Steel cased ammo like champ from the day I first took it shooting. I do want to dehorn the ambi safety though as it has some sharp cheese grater type edges. But for the 450 I paid for it I'm pretty happy with it. I know you can find them for less money that that if you shop around or find used.

Posted: 1/12/2017 1:32:11 AM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
So they're cheap and they work, but total crap for fit & finish?

View Quote

No, fit and finish is also fine. Idiots here expect it to be as finely fitted as a wilson or a nighthawk.. for the same 400 dollar price.

I have one, and trust and carry it more than my nighthawk.

Posted: 1/12/2017 1:32:53 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
Well, according to my brother-in-law who has owned a couple of these, any 1911 coming out of the Philippines is complete junk and should be avoided. Guess it depends on who you talk to.

View Quote

Your brother in law is an idiot.

Posted: 1/12/2017 4:19:16 AM EDT

[#25]

I own both ria and cimaron which I believe is made by the same company as it has the same name in Nevada engraved under the dust cover.
All are great, quite frankly better than my Springfield.
I recently got an American Classic II which appears to be made by somebody else. I can tell all the small parts and even some cuts of the frame are different. I haven't shot it yet, but it looks great.

A long time ago somebody posted a list of who makes what guns. Apparently there are 3 (?) Manufacturers in the islands that make the guns that are imported under different names. It'd be nice to see that list again.

What guns even are made in the Philippines? I see some odd brands now and then like iver Johnson that I didn't even know were made there.

ETA: shot 232 rounds though the American classic today, all with the one factory mag. Only one malfunction, on approx the second mag, inserted on a closed slide, the round jammed into the feedramp on trying to cycle slide. I intentionally tried to load it that way from then on to see if I could reproduce it, no. Just a fluke, perhaps even user error. 50 perfecta, 100 blazer aluminum, 50 tula, 8 golden saber 185 +p, 8 golden saber 230, 8 federal 230 jhps and 8 Winchester "Defend" 230jhp.
Only bad thing I noticed was a burr on the bottom of the trigger. I tried smoothing it out with Emery cloth in the gun, it is better but I probably will pull the trigger and polish it or maybe replace it.

Posted: 1/12/2017 9:46:16 AM EDT

[#26]

I intend on getting a Rock Island pistol at some point. I think they're excellent guns.

Posted: 1/12/2017 10:24:33 AM EDT

[#27]

Love my Cimarron.

Posted: 1/12/2017 10:30:14 AM EDT

[#28]

The wife recently got a RIA 1911A1, 22 TCM/9MM. While it might not be my first choice, the gun shoots very good, has a good trigger and she likes it. The finish is good and the fit seems to be tight. Several shooter at our local indoor range have also shot it and were surprised/pleased with the way it shot.

Posted: 1/13/2017 12:34:10 AM EDT

[#29]

I have heard nothing but good things about the rock island. Seen several reviews online saying it is more reliable than something like a kimber. I kinda like the "ugly" look, just like I like glock look, guns are for shooting not looking at.

Posted: 1/14/2017 3:17:18 AM EDT

[#30]

I am on my second rock island pistol, my first being the GI model. I haven't had anything but good luck with mine

Posted: 1/15/2017 12:37:13 AM EDT

[#31]

I just shot a brand new RIA tactical today. Straight outa the box, all I did was run a bore snake through it. I took it apart just to look at it, but no oiling or cleaning, left the factory oil, reassembled it and fired over 200 rounds through the one factory mag. Zero malfunctions! Ammo fired was blazer aluminum, tula, perfecta, golden saber 185 +p, golden saber 230grn, Winchester "defend" 230grn HP and federal 230 HP. All ran perfect, accurate and to point of aim. No "break in" bull shit, just ran perfect. I've never had a single jam with my GI, or the 2 cimmarons either. That's right up there with glock reliability!

Posted: 1/15/2017 12:57:37 AM EDT

[#32]

We all need to buy a .45 to celebrate the 45th president! :) RIA tactical is next on my list.

Posted: 1/15/2017 1:02:00 AM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
We all need to buy a .45 to celebrate the 45th president! :) RIA tactical is next on my list.

View Quote

I bought the ria tactical and the American Classic II for that reason.

Posted: 1/16/2017 8:22:12 AM EDT

[#34]

Just picked up a RIA M1911 A1 MS Tactical Ultra 45acp this weekend. IMO it's an awesome looking gun. Haven't shot it yet but will sometime this week. Fit and finish seems pretty spot on compared to most other 1911s I've shot.

Posted: 1/16/2017 10:32:44 AM EDT

[#35]

I've got an RIA GI with a little over 1k rounds through it...it's been fantastic (perfect function / fun to shoot). It's my beater for around the place. Wish I'd bought a couple more.

Posted: 1/16/2017 12:30:22 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
So they're cheap and they work, but total crap for fit & finish?

View Quote

.

I wouldn't say that. This one has close to 3000 rounds through it. David

Posted: 1/16/2017 12:33:06 PM EDT

[#37]

Nothing wrong with the current crop of Filipino made 1911's...many of which are made
on very high quality American made HAAS CNC machining centers...this applies to the
frames and slides mostly.

Investment castings (Ruger is a great example) and MIM parts when done correctly are
perfectly acceptable...

Again, you have to take Into consideration the price point on these pistols and how
much value goes Into the pistol for the price...

One of my favorites that are Filipino made:

https://americanclassic.eagleimportsinc.com/americanclassic/firearms/trophy-series

5" Hard Chrome in .45 ACP with a similar profile to the Colt 1911 National Match.

Posted: 1/16/2017 12:39:10 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
.

I wouldn't say that. This one has close to 3000 rounds through it. David

View Quote

I have been told that the Eagle Arms MAC/American Classic versions are actually hand
fitted to higher levels of fit and finish vs. other Filipino made pistols...

There is only one good way to find out and that is to buy one...

Posted: 1/16/2017 8:31:21 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
.

I wouldn't say that. This one has close to 3000 rounds through it. David

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
So they're cheap and they work, but total crap for fit & finish?

.

I wouldn't say that. This one has close to 3000 rounds through it. David

3,000?
You have got to be kidding.

Get to 30,000 if you want to judge long tem reliability and use.

I have well over 100,000 though a number of 1911s.

Shooting competitive bullseye at the state-regional level eats up a LOT of ammo.

Posted: 1/16/2017 8:43:56 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:

3,000?
You have got to be kidding.

Get to 30,000 if you want to judge long tem reliability and use.

I have well over 100,000 though a number of 1911s.

Shooting competitive bullseye at the state-regional level eats up a LOT of ammo.

View Quote

I want to see pics of a number of 1911's with over 100k through them...each...please.

Posted: 1/16/2017 9:50:00 PM EDT

[#41]

Come on...pics man...pics....

Posted: 1/17/2017 4:37:14 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:

3,000?
You have got to be kidding.

Get to 30,000 if you want to judge long tem reliability and use.

I have well over 100,000 though a number of 1911s.

Shooting competitive bullseye at the state-regional level eats up a LOT of ammo.

View Quote

Well I was refering to the fit and finish. If you have a number of 1911's with well over 100,000 rounds you are a rare individual. You also have way more disposable income than I will every have. I order pallets of ammo at work each year and generally spend $150,000 to $175,000 each year of our tax money purchasing it. Not something I can personally affort.

As requested above please post some of these well worn 1911's in another thread. I love pictures of well worn guns and their wear patterns. I'd love to see you run a RIA that hard so we can all see how it lasts. David

Posted: 1/17/2017 4:54:30 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
We all need to buy a .45 to celebrate the 45th president! :) RIA tactical is next on my list.

View Quote

That's the best excuse I've heard all day. I'm going shopping for a Dan Wesson.

Posted: 1/17/2017 5:32:33 PM EDT

[#44]

A 'friend' had a Philippine 1911.

He managed to break the thumb safety.

He ordered a part and tried to install it.

He brought me the gun when he could not make the pin fit.

Instead of a quick 15 minute job it took many hours.

Being one of those 'work on the cheap part' guys I was very reluctant to ream the frame hole out to the correct size.

Of course the grip safety then had to be reamed then.

QC?
I checked the other pins.
All undersized frame holes.
Not just the bottom of tolerance but 'out of tolerance.'

I warned him about them.
Lucky for him nothing else failed in the next 15 years.

I am retired and without an FFL.

Posted: 1/22/2017 2:54:17 AM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:

I have been told that the Eagle Arms MAC/American Classic versions are actually hand
fitted to higher levels of fit and finish vs. other Filipino made pistols...

There is only one good way to find out and that is to buy one...

View Quote

American Classic II are very well made, well fitted but not too tight and finely finished. Imho they are on par with other 1911s of the type on the market from domestic makers.

American Classic GI models are not as closely fit as the Classic II but are tighter than US issue M1911A1s were and certainly better finished.

Posted: 1/22/2017 8:39:05 AM EDT

[#46]

IIRC, in the Henderson Defense high round count pistol thread, the OP mentioned that of all the pistols they rent, the RIA 1911s have been the most durable over the long term.

Posted: 1/22/2017 9:29:29 AM EDT

[#47]

I don't know of anyone who has tried the Iver Johnson models . I'm going to order one of their 6" 1911s . I will post pics of course .

Posted: 1/22/2017 3:29:26 PM EDT

[#48]

I am going to start making a list in this post of who manufacture/imports what.

The American Classics are made by Metro Arms in Manila Philippines, imported by Eagle Imports. Some places list them as Bersa, because Bersa is also imported by Eagle Imports. My dealer had to enter the manufacturer as Bersa for it to go through on our states online background check system.

As I understand it RIAs are made by Armscor in the Philippines and Ria is the American company.

Cimmarons are also made by Armscor and even have the same import mark as ria under the dust cover, apintl Pahrump Nevada.

Citadel's are also made by Armscor and have the same Pahrump, Nevada import mark. Sold by Legacy Sports International.

I just read that ATI is the exclusive importer of Shooters Arms Manufacturing. I seem to recall Shooters Arms Manufacturing (SAM) being imported or sold by at least one other company in the past, Century I think.

Can anybody provide info on other brands?

Posted: 1/22/2017 3:44:26 PM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
Come on...pics man...pics....

View Quote

Not about to bother.

They look like any other well cared for pistol.
Most have been through a hot blue tank more than once.

The rules bullseye rules have wandered over the years.

Sometimes tighter (no exterior changes allowed) sometime looser ((sight rails, etc).
It depends on what 'class' you shot in.

One handed no optics for many years.
No exterior changes from a straight 'military' pistol.

I shot about 500 rounds a week for over 20 years.

Every Saturday and Sunday.
Over and over.

It racks up.

185 wad-cutters used to be a lot cheaper.

Loaded every one myself.

Bullseye in 8 pound cans.

Primer 10,000 in a case.

Bulk mil once fired brass has always been floating around.
You just had to know where to look.

After FOPA '86 you could easily order reloading components.
Keep in mind !986 was 30 years ago now.
Before that you had to at least show up at a store.

As a PE in Elect4rical Engineering I was very well paid.Large amounts of very black electronic warfare (EW) work.

Want a radio link that cannot be detected when operating (let alone intercepted)?

Change frequency a couple thousand times a second in a band no one even looks in or uses.
It was the cutting edge of the digital control of 'frequency agile' communications.
I used to collect papers written by other government contractors saying that put 'latest proposal' could NOT be done.

Never tell an engineer on a cost plus fixed fee contract that 'cannot be done.'

None of it was 'commercially viable' at the time.

It was in support of the 'Intelligence Community.'
Many of the things done did not appear possible.

Money and time.

Remember "The bomb will never go off. I speak as an expert in explosives." --Admiral William Leahy, U.S. Atomic Bomb Project

It took almost all the silver in Fort Knox to make the magnet windings for the Calutrons (gaint mass spectrometers) to separate Uranium 235 and 238.

Posted: 1/22/2017 4:37:18 PM EDT

[#50]

Quote History

Quoted:

Not about to bother.

They look like any other well cared for pistol.
Most have been through a hot blue tank more than once.

The rules bullseye rules have wandered over the years.

Sometimes tighter (no exterior changes allowed) sometime looser ((sight rails, etc).
It depends on what 'class' you shot in.

One handed no optics for many years.
No exterior changes from a straight 'military' pistol.

I shot about 500 rounds a week for over 20 years.

Every Saturday and Sunday.
Over and over.

It racks up.

185 wad-cutters used to be a lot cheaper.

Loaded every one myself.

Bullseye in 8 pound cans.

Primer 10,000 in a case.

Bulk mil once fired brass has always been floating around.
You just had to know where to look.

After FOPA '86 you could easily order reloading components.
Keep in mind !986 was 30 years ago now.
Before that you had to at least show up at a store.

As a PE in Elect4rical Engineering I was very well paid.Large amounts of very black electronic warfare (EW) work.

Want a radio link that cannot be detected when operating (let alone intercepted)?

Change frequency a couple thousand times a second in a band no one even looks in or uses.
It was the cutting edge of the digital control of 'frequency agile' communications.
I used to collect papers written by other government contractors saying that put 'latest proposal' could NOT be done.

Never tell an engineer on a cost plus fixed fee contract that 'cannot be done.'

None of it was 'commercially viable' at the time.

It was in support of the 'Intelligence Community.'
Many of the things done did not appear possible.

Money and time.

Remember "The bomb will never go off. I speak as an expert in explosives." --Admiral William Leahy, U.S. Atomic Bomb Project

It took almost all the silver in Fort Knox to make the magnet windings for the Calutrons (gaint mass spectrometers) to separate Uranium 235 and 238.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Come on...pics man...pics....

Not about to bother.

They look like any other well cared for pistol.
Most have been through a hot blue tank more than once.

The rules bullseye rules have wandered over the years.

Sometimes tighter (no exterior changes allowed) sometime looser ((sight rails, etc).
It depends on what 'class' you shot in.

One handed no optics for many years.
No exterior changes from a straight 'military' pistol.

I shot about 500 rounds a week for over 20 years.

Every Saturday and Sunday.
Over and over.

It racks up.

185 wad-cutters used to be a lot cheaper.

Loaded every one myself.

Bullseye in 8 pound cans.

Primer 10,000 in a case.

Bulk mil once fired brass has always been floating around.
You just had to know where to look.

After FOPA '86 you could easily order reloading components.
Keep in mind !986 was 30 years ago now.
Before that you had to at least show up at a store.

As a PE in Elect4rical Engineering I was very well paid.Large amounts of very black electronic warfare (EW) work.

Want a radio link that cannot be detected when operating (let alone intercepted)?

Change frequency a couple thousand times a second in a band no one even looks in or uses.
It was the cutting edge of the digital control of 'frequency agile' communications.
I used to collect papers written by other government contractors saying that put 'latest proposal' could NOT be done.

Never tell an engineer on a cost plus fixed fee contract that 'cannot be done.'

None of it was 'commercially viable' at the time.

It was in support of the 'Intelligence Community.'
Many of the things done did not appear possible.

Money and time.

Remember "The bomb will never go off. I speak as an expert in explosives." --Admiral William Leahy, U.S. Atomic Bomb Project

It took almost all the silver in Fort Knox to make the magnet windings for the Calutrons (gaint mass spectrometers) to separate Uranium 235 and 238.

Uhhh...ok.

...backs out slowly...

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Philippine-manufactured 1911's (Page 1 of 2)

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