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Posted: 10/26/2016 9:31:03 AM EDT
[#1]
Because their guns tend to not be reliable, and their customer service department would just as soon piss on you as try to help you.
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Posted: 10/26/2016 9:35:07 AM EDT
[#2]
Years ago,I have had more than one Gun Smith say if para can put a hole out of tolerance they will.
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Posted: 10/26/2016 9:51:39 AM EDT
[#3]
They had a stretch where they struggled a lot . They then had crap customer service to help with that . That combination is bad in the gun world . The newer stuff is supposed to be better . But if you buy one treat it as no warranty . The double stack guns are looked down on by the competition crowd as starter guns to get you by until you can buy an STI or something else that is $2,000
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Posted: 10/26/2016 10:09:17 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They had a stretch where they struggled a lot . They then had crap customer service to help with that . That combination is bad in the gun world . The newer stuff is supposed to be better . But if you buy one treat it as no warranty . The double stack guns are looked down on by the competition crowd as starter guns to get you by until you can buy an STI or something else that is $2,000 I went through a few in my earlier USPSA career. The P-45s worked ok but too big, limited capacity vs 40 and too much recoil for competition. One P-40 that was a total POS. One guy that always shoots on our squad bought a Todd Jarret model about two years ago- jam o matic. Been back for sevice several times and still won't run reliably. I bit the bullet and went STI. |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 10:20:19 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because their guns tend to not be reliable, and their customer service department would just as soon piss on you as try to help you. At least you don't have to worry about it anymore, para is gone |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 10:29:06 AM EDT
[#6]
I sold a rock island tactical to buy a para gi thinking it was a step up. I was dissapointed. The grip safety didn't work, it had feeding issues no matter what I tried. It was considerably looser than the $400 Philippine special. And for the cost of their other offerings I have many other options.
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Posted: 10/26/2016 10:39:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because their guns tend to not be reliable, and their customer service department would just as soon piss on you as try to help you. They had a customer service guy haunting another gun forum and jumping into every thread whenever a customer was complaining about how crappy his Para was or how customer service failed to resolve the problem. He'd step right in and promissed to make things right and stick with the thread through thick and thin with more gratuitous promises while the OP continued to report that his gun was still shit and nothing had been resolved. Then some shills would climb up onto his back and congratulate him for how terrific Para customer service was until eventually, the thread would simply fade away without the OP getting his Para fixed. That's in part why Para earned the shit reputation it has/had. |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 10:57:06 AM EDT
[#8]
Several Paras in my local IDPA group. If any gun is going to choke and puke during a match, its a Para. Yet the owners still run them. Mystifies me.
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Posted: 10/26/2016 11:52:36 AM EDT
[#9]
They use shitty parts and fit them loosely. I know of some reliable Paras but by and large they have been gutted and rebuilt.
They are also all Series 80 guns which doesn't help matters. |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 1:59:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Gotcha. What parts are kept I. The rebuilt guns? I'm going to put a sleeve in mine and go back to a standard extractor. What other parts are typically replaced?
Thankfully, the series 80 parts are MIA on mine. |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 2:03:08 PM EDT
[#11]
I bought a P14 Limited in the late 90s & competed with it, it was (is) very reliable. I was surprised to learn they had gone so far downhill too
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Posted: 10/26/2016 2:12:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought a P14 Limited in the late 90s & competed with it, it was (is) very reliable. I was surprised to learn they had gone so far downhill too I have a P14 - early, Canadian one. Don't shoot it much anymore because I went .40 for Limited and Kimber (!!!!!!! works great) for single-stack. Mine was great. |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 2:45:32 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought a P14 Limited in the late 90s & competed with it, it was (is) very reliable. I was surprised to learn they had gone so far downhill too My experience as well. My P-14 worked all the time, which is more than I can say for my Kimber Custom 2. |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 2:49:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a P14 - early, Canadian one. Don't shoot it much anymore because I went .40 for Limited and Kimber (!!!!!!! works great) for single-stack. Mine was great. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I bought a P14 Limited in the late 90s & competed with it, it was (is) very reliable. I was surprised to learn they had gone so far downhill too I have a P14 - early, Canadian one. Don't shoot it much anymore because I went .40 for Limited and Kimber (!!!!!!! works great) for single-stack. Mine was great. I have had several Paras, and always considered them as marginally better than an 80% kit. For a while there, if you were looking for a double stack frame, your choices were essentially STI or Para. Now that double stack 1911 frames can be had from several manufacturers, I see no point in ever buying another Para (even if the current Para-USA is not the same as the old Para Ordnance). FTR, I EDC an alloy framed Para, but I've put a fair amount of work into it to make it reliable enough to be an EDC. |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 3:12:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gotcha. What parts are kept I. The rebuilt guns? I'm going to put a sleeve in mine and go back to a standard extractor. What other parts are typically replaced? Thankfully, the series 80 parts are MIA on mine. You don't have to sleeve it. George at EGW makes an extractor that has a large OD to fit the Para PXT Slide. Go Here to find it. |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 3:24:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gotcha. What parts are kept I. The rebuilt guns? I'm going to put a sleeve in mine and go back to a standard extractor. What other parts are typically replaced? Thankfully, the series 80 parts are MIA on mine. Barrel, fire control, extractor, thumb safety (sometimes), magazine springs and followers are the big ones. To give you an idea of the kind of qwality we are working with here, this is a photo of a Para hammer. 
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Posted: 10/26/2016 4:13:51 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Barrel, fire control, extractor, thumb safety (sometimes), magazine springs and followers are the big ones. To give you an idea of the kind of qwality we are working with here, this is a photo of a Para hammer. <a href="http://s241.photobucket.com/user/kemays/media/gunsmith/para-hammer.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff35/kemays/gunsmith/para-hammer.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Gotcha. What parts are kept I. The rebuilt guns? I'm going to put a sleeve in mine and go back to a standard extractor. What other parts are typically replaced? Thankfully, the series 80 parts are MIA on mine. Barrel, fire control, extractor, thumb safety (sometimes), magazine springs and followers are the big ones. To give you an idea of the kind of qwality we are working with here, this is a photo of a Para hammer. <a href="http://s241.photobucket.com/user/kemays/media/gunsmith/para-hammer.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff35/kemays/gunsmith/para-hammer.jpg</a> FWIW, I really haven't had a problem with their barrels or the PXT extractors, but their FCG are 
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Posted: 10/26/2016 7:14:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:.....  That pic sums it all up they made it halfway pretty on the outside, but its built awful on the inside, were it needs to work. 
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Posted: 10/26/2016 7:25:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FWIW, I really haven't had a problem with their barrels or the PXT extractors, but their FCG are Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gotcha. What parts are kept I. The rebuilt guns? I'm going to put a sleeve in mine and go back to a standard extractor. What other parts are typically replaced? Thankfully, the series 80 parts are MIA on mine. Barrel, fire control, extractor, thumb safety (sometimes), magazine springs and followers are the big ones. To give you an idea of the kind of qwality we are working with here, this is a photo of a Para hammer. <a href="http://s241.photobucket.com/user/kemays/media/gunsmith/para-hammer.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff35/kemays/gunsmith/para-hammer.jpg</a> FWIW, I really haven't had a problem with their barrels or the PXT extractors, but their FCG are The problem with the barrels are that they are fit looser than a Kardashian asshole. The PXT extractors are pretty much untuneable, so if you have one that doesn't work well, replacement is about the only solution. |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 7:44:30 PM EDT
[#20]
My buddy and I bought a P14 at the same time. They were 1 serial number apart. His ran like a scalded ape, mine didn't. I really wanted to like it, but it wouldn't feed anything but ball ammo and it did that poorly.
I liked the concept of the double stack 1911 so much that I eventually ordered one that works really well. So in the end, I did have something to thank Para for. |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 11:56:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Their frame kits were fantastic and later when they stated making complete pistols those were fantastic too. That was back before they moved from Canada to the US .
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Posted: 10/27/2016 9:47:25 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem with the barrels are that they are fit looser than a Kardashian asshole. The PXT extractors are pretty much untuneable, so if you have one that doesn't work well, replacement is about the only solution. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gotcha. What parts are kept I. The rebuilt guns? I'm going to put a sleeve in mine and go back to a standard extractor. What other parts are typically replaced? Thankfully, the series 80 parts are MIA on mine. Barrel, fire control, extractor, thumb safety (sometimes), magazine springs and followers are the big ones. To give you an idea of the kind of qwality we are working with here, this is a photo of a Para hammer. <a href="http://s241.photobucket.com/user/kemays/media/gunsmith/para-hammer.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff35/kemays/gunsmith/para-hammer.jpg</a> FWIW, I really haven't had a problem with their barrels or the PXT extractors, but their FCG are The problem with the barrels are that they are fit looser than a Kardashian asshole. The PXT extractors are pretty much untuneable, so if you have one that doesn't work well, replacement is about the only solution. Ah, yes, that's true. Once you replaced the bushing and link, the barrels were ok. This was always one of the first things I did when I got a Para, which may be why I never really had any problems with the PXT extractors. Then again, most of the guns I had were pre-pxt, so I might have also gotten lucky. 
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Posted: 10/27/2016 10:13:43 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ah, yes, that's true. Once you replaced the bushing and link, the barrels were ok. This was always one of the first things I did when I got a Para, which may be why I never really had any problems with the PXT extractors. Then again, most of the guns I had were pre-pxt, so I might have also gotten lucky. Another issue is that the slide bore inside Paras is larger than most 1911s. They take a 4 or 5 link to get the barrel fully contacting the upper lugs, and I've had oversized "gunsmith fit" bushings slide right into Para slides without reducing the OD at all. My recommendation on the PXT is, if it works with it, shoot it until it doesn't. Then replace with a real extractor. |
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Posted: 10/27/2016 10:28:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Ok, gotcha. I believe mine is a Canadian one. I do plan on replacing the extractor and sleeping it, I'd prefer to be able to use standard parts.
That hammer in that pic looks awful! My hammer definitely looks better than that. Makes me wonder if a previous owner swapped out the FCG... I'll have to look. |
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Posted: 10/27/2016 4:50:54 PM EDT
[#25]
A satisfied customer tells a few people.
A dissatisfied customer tells everyone they can think of. They earned it. It is left as an exercise for other customers to figure out how and why. |
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Posted: 10/27/2016 5:43:20 PM EDT
[#26]
From working behind the counter for a while my impression of it was Para made a lot of guns, and they turned out a lot of bad ones, followed up with bad customer service.
When they got absorbed by Freedom Group I saw a marked improvement in both the guns and their customer service. Despite that we still had several guns go through the store with BS problems like; rear sight flying off, extractor breaking and hitting customer in face, thumb safety not fit, hammer follow, unable to reassemble gun, lots of malfunctions. Their support was much better about helping these customers out, but after a while it was like "order a Para, roll the dice." I'd personally witnessed customers have to send 1911s back to Springfield, Taurus, Kimber, Sig, and Nighthawk. The biggest thing that stood out for their experiences was how customer service handled it. Para spent too long with bad customer service, and it earned them a rep they're going to have to work hard to overcome. Ditching the stupid power extractor was a good start. |
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Posted: 10/29/2016 3:38:14 PM EDT
[#27]
I bought a P14 Black Ops knowing all the stories for unreliability, but I always wanted a double-stack 1911, and would have regretted not trying one.
Out of the box it would FTE maybe 2% of the time. I replaced the extractor with a Wilson Combat Bulletproof extractor and that solved the problem. I also added a lighter main spring, 18.5-pound recoil spring and Wolff 10% mag springs. It's a solid, reliable shooter now. I won't claim it's better than any other brand, but I'm glad I tried it out. |
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Posted: 11/26/2016 10:39:18 AM EDT
[#28]
I rolled the dice yesterday. bought a NIB stainless elite for 399.00 out the door. bought it for a range toy, so we'll see.
In to edit after first range trip. Guess I lucked out and got a good one. shoots like a dam laser beam exactly where I aim. 100 rounds through with zero issues. |
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Posted: 11/29/2016 2:47:14 AM EDT
[#29]
Their frame kits ca. early-mid '90s were not bad. This gun was done by the SACS.
 
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Posted: 11/30/2016 11:38:40 AM EDT
[#30]
I must have been lucky, or the Canadian made paras were better. I have a P14 I bought used from a guy who used it for uspsa, I shot the snot out of it in uspsa. It is now kinda loose and still runs 100%.
My P16 was bought for uspsa, about 10k rds to date, still runs well and still pretty accurate Picked up a alloy frame P14 new about 10 years ago, still runs like a scalded ape. |
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Posted: 11/30/2016 11:57:58 AM EDT
[#31]
The canadian staff were probably the rudest I ever ran across in the entire industry.
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Posted: 11/30/2016 12:08:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: I bought a Para back in 2008, and later learned that they have a bad reputation. Why is that? My gun is a commander sized aluminum gun, and it has some nice features. I hate the PXT extractor though. Outside of the extractor, why did people hate Para? Just wondering. I sent it back THREE TIMES, and each time they had the gun for 2 months. Every time I got it back I would shoot it using the ammo they specified and it would fail to feed. I explained it in passing to the manager at Gander Mtn and he actually bought it back for full price. I got a Sig 226 Elite and never looked back. Fuck Para. |
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Posted: 11/30/2016 9:03:58 PM EDT
[#33]
I have a 2002 ish alloy p-12. The grip is thickand had a hard time finding nite sights for it so I tried selling it, no takers. I kept it. Over the years Ive shot thousands of rounds thru it and it functions perfect. I can hit a propane tank at 80 yds 6-7 out of 10 times. Its a great gun. Glad no one wanted it! LOL
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Posted: 12/1/2016 12:04:31 AM EDT
[#34]
I have a P14 LTD SS bought in the early 2000's. Never had a single malfunction and is quite accurate.
Never realized how bad they got. |
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Posted: 12/2/2016 8:31:20 PM EDT
[#35]
I wanted to get one.
A friend's experience with his Warthog turned me off. As others have mentioned, big issues, slow and uninterested customer service. This was a few years back. If I remember, it wouldn't feed reliably and he had issues with the thumb safety. Weird part is that was his second Para. First one had no issues. Good gun. |
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Posted: 12/2/2016 10:41:37 PM EDT
[#36]
I've qualified a couple guys at work with their personally owned Para LW commanders as an off duty carry option. Both guns did the course with no malfunctions and pretty accurate. New production guns.
I was also under the impression they got absorbed by Remington. |
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Posted: 12/2/2016 11:03:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've qualified a couple guys at work with their personally owned Para LW commanders as an off duty carry option. Both guns did the course with no malfunctions and pretty accurate. New production guns. I was also under the impression they got absorbed by Remington. Yeah, they are owned by Remington. Quality must have been hit or miss for a while though. I just got all home runs myself. Dang, those para commanders are cheap. Can your agency carry any brand gun off duty? |
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Posted: 12/3/2016 6:58:40 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, they are owned by Remington. Quality must have been hit or miss for a while though. I just got all home runs myself. Dang, those para commanders are cheap. Can your agency carry any brand gun off duty? .380 or larger. Gotta use Speer gold dot. Gun has to be reliable, we can fail it if it's not. I've seen a couple Kel-tec's not pass. Maybe a lcp |
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