So for the past year or so I've been using 2x2 patch's for my 30. and my 9mm pistols, but it seem's like there not cleaning the 9's very well in the grooves. Which works better, professional's choice 2 1/2 or tipton 2 1/4?

i just get the patches from walmart for .357/9mm/.45  - those seem to work fine..  if your really want to clean out the rifling, be sure to use a bore brush as part of your regimine..

What kind of jag are you using?

Bore brush?

It depends on the diameter of your jag.

If you are suing a lop swab, get a brass jag.

Both the size and thickness of the patch mater for using a jag.

It is supposed to be tight, though not enough to more than barely flex the cleaning rod.

Bore brushes are for the actual cleaning.

Patches are for putting in or removing solvent, CLP, etc. etc.  You could cut up litle squares from a cotton T-shirt and they'd do just fine.

This.

I don't really measure patches.  Just eyeball, cut and tear from an old rag.

Unless you are shooting lead bullets, WHY ARE YOU CLEANING THE BARREL AT ALL?!?!

Seriously, I've been shooting the same Glock 17 GSSF commemorative since I bought it new and the ONLY thing that has ever touched the rifling is bullets.

Chamber?  Sure - I brush that out & I clean the slide rail ways.

But the bore?  NEVER CLEAN IT. EVER.

I use this gun in target competition.  And I win with it.  Cleaning a pistol's barrel will only damage it (provided you are not shooting lead, of course).

Interesting post.

I just looked at one of my HK handgun manuals  and HK suggests cleaning after every firing.

Why do you take the opposite view?

What I do on all my handgun barrels, is use some generic sized patch (2" i think) and just wrap it around a nylon bore brush and scrub till the patch is clean.  I clean after every shooting, so it never takes much at all.  I let some ballistol sit in there for 10 mins or so before I do it.  

I say clean the barrel because there is always unburnt power and reside from burnt powder down it. The barrel can get just as dirty as the chamber.

I guess all my pistol barrels are damaged. Damn bore brushes.

I was so advised by the maker of pistol barrels I use, after his work with Precision Shooting Magazine (see link).  I applied the advice to my Glock factory barrel and found it to be true for the Glock's barrel as well.   The target competitions I participate in require rapid fire & I use my handguns for rapid fire to distances of 50 meters or less. Here is the link:


http://www.schuemann.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=3zZ4oir3t50%3d&tabid=67&mid=445

Regards,

CBR
 

This comes up every couple months, clean the shit out of it/shoot the shit out of it and dear god don't clean the sum' bich'. I clean mine, not to perfection but what I'm satisfied with, everyone of my pistols, rifles, revolvers, shoot better than I'm able to utilize. If your happy with years of build up and you feel you can rely on it performing to the best of it's abilities by not cleaning , I say go for it.
I'm not comfortable with not cleaning, case in point. I own several AR's, used mostly for target. But once a year we do a S.D. trip for p-dogs. Wife and I went through 1700rds. over a weekend, lubed(no cleaning) both AR's after two solid days of shooting. The third day hers started having issues, FTF, FTE, looking at and comparing lugs/chambers/bolt and carrier's, of our AR's hers was significantly more built up with carbon. And I would guess I'd run more than half of those 1700rds, probably like a 60/40 ratio.
My point is, firearms are all different even when their the same, do what works for you and enjoy the sport.

I clean my AR's barrel every few hundred rounds.  Chamber, barrel, everything.  I use Slip2000 products generally, if a lot of rounds were fired then Kroil/JB bore paste (very sparingly), plus a coated rod & bore guide.  

Pistol barrels w/ jacked bullets? Never.

Wow.  Very intriguing info. from schuemann.  

It makes a lot of sense.

I'm having trouble getting my mind wrapped around his approach, since I've  been taught to clean my barrels after every range session.

Would you mind if I used the schuemann link to start a thread about this?

Also, the type of patch is another important factor in my opinion. The ones I use have a waffle design and are 2” diameter circle. They are rough, almost like a cheap paper towel but thicker. Those shiny looking patches that come in cheap cleaning kits aren’t worth a crap in my opinion.

I usually buy my patches at the gun show from the same guy every couple years. I buy a few thousand at a time and get them for around $6 per 1k I think.

I do a quick cleaning demo with everything spelled out in my CCW classes (part of the state requirements – maintenance) and you’d be amazed at the number of people that think I just pulled a rabbit out of my hat or something from their faces. They’re doing half the cleaning in twice the time. I got good at cleaning guns as a kid because my deal with dad was “he’d buy the ammo if I clean the guns.” I got good and fast before long. Too bad we don’t have that deal any more!

I'd be interested in trying the patches your talking about. Ever come across any on the net, got a link?

I have to respectfully disagree with you. If you are shooting fast and for combat accuracy and not cleaning the bore you might not notice a drop in accuracy right away but over time you will. You will notice a drop in accuracy if you shoot for tight groups and you never clean the bore. Also properly cleaning a gun/bore WILL NOT CAUSE DAMAGE....EVER!!!! What you stated is simply not true and is misinformation.
Here is a few pictures of a bran new Smith and Wesson 4006 barrel that was only shot at the factory. You can clearly see the copper fouling already building after only a few test rounds at the factory(fouling builds faster then you think):


This patch is pretty loaded with blue from the fouling removed:


The following is not a pistol but a chrome lined AR with 300 rounds through it. It shows all the fouling that sticks to even chrome after only 300 rounds. The bore snake made 3 passes(did not remove much at all) and then the bore was properly cleaned with a rod and jag set and tons of fouling came out:


More copper crud:



This is a high end custom Performance Center 4566. It is capable of extreme accuracy. This group is with a freshly cleaned gun/bore. After a few hundred round this gun will no longer produce groups this tight/good untill the bore is cleaned again:


With a properly dressed bore it does not take long to clean it. This picture is the 4006 bore after 500 rounds and scrubed with a brush 8 stroks in between patches. It only took 4 patch/brush/jag cycles to get out a white patch:



My point being with all this is that proper cleaning is important with any firearm. If you don't clean your bore you will lose accuracy and does put you at a disadvantage in compitition or in the street. Proper cleaning is also good for you gun and helps keep wear down. It by no means damages your weapon in any way shape or form.

I use hoppes with a nylon brush, then CLP patch's & a plastic 38 jag. Sometimes different solvents & lubes. Thats seems to work fine on other calibers.It has been more of a problem with the standard rifling of my now sold norinco 213 & my hi-point 995. the pm9's polygonal rifling looks better but I can still see a few dirty area's.

I do not mind at all.  Please do start a link; I am a firm believer in Wil Schuemann's advice because I have tried it and it has proven to be true.

SkagSig40:  you either failed to read my posts, or you failed to understand them.  Your post mixes cleaning of the fouling from an AR barrel - WHICH I ALSO DO AND I ADVOCATE, along with cleaning a pistol barrel.  If you are using only jacketed ammunition IN YOUR PISTOL, then cleaning has no benefit.  

Please re-read Wil Schumann's site; he MANUFACTURES 1911 barrels for a variety of purposes - including CMP/DCM/NRA Bullseye/National Match competition.  These forms of competition require accurized 1911s which typically are capable of machine-rest groups of 1 to 1.5" at 50 yards.  Wil's advice carries a lot of weight in my book - because he MANUFACTURES the barrels that win.  That advice carries MORE weight in light of my experience proving it to be true.

Question for you: have you ever TRIED going without the cleaning? Or are you simply cleaning your pistol barrels because someone told you to?  I've tried both methods.  If you have not done so, please try following the advice of one of the top 1911 barrel makers in the world. THEN post your results (if you still find a benefit to cleaning PISTOL BARRELS).  

Regards,

CBR

I guess I may as well leave the pm9 barrel alone. It is very nice and I guess I'm more likely to damage it then help anything. Suppose it's more technique then anything else. But the carbine's barrel is very dirty (Russian Ammo) and I'm not to worried about chemically damaging it, I just want to get all the caked fouling out. I guess i'll cut up a shirt, I'm probably going to sell it away.