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Irene
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Posted: 2/24/2010 10:21:49 AM
Yes, I know there are a million variations of 1911s, some of them are completely worn out, some are poorly built, and some are the Mercedes of pistols.

However, GENERALLY SPEAKING, have you personally noticed that 1911s as a whole tend to be more or less reliable in a combat course than:

(a) Sigs

(b) HKs

(c) Glocks

(d) Springfield XD

Blaster3094
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Posted: 2/24/2010 10:48:47 AM
I have been to many classes. Glocks followed by 1911s are the predominate pistols present.

With the 1911 it usually has been magazine related. Occasional troubles with someone's reloads and that is not the gun. If it is a decent gun and properly lubricated it should run fine. I have seen a Kimber double and triple due to an aftermarket trigger.

With Glocks I have seen a fair number of problems all have been minor. Minor in the sense that they were easily remedied. A broke slide lock spring caused the slide to separate from the frame when the last round was fired. Seen that one twice, happened to me once. Worn magazines that caused the slide to fail to lock open. Broken trigger return springs. The biggest Glock failures have been associated with aftermarket parts. Aftermarket recoil spring assemblies that come apart during class.

XDs you will see a few but I haven't seen enough of them to have an opinion.

I do not see many Sigs or HKs. Mose people who have been to more than one class will get away from the DA/SA pistol and go with something that has a consistent trigger pull. Unless they are training with a duty weapon.
1911smith
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Posted: 2/24/2010 10:52:41 AM
You, my freind have come to the wrong forum to ask that question. There are some who come to this forum with problems and find direction. If they encounter problems again we attempt to answer, educate, and problem solve. The majority of us here have 1911s that will run with the best of the plastic fantastics you refer to. I own a few of the pistols you list. I have taken tactical training courses and seen a lot of failures in a lot of different brands, most were the user. That said why would anyone take a pistol thats less than 110% to training or duty ? I can't speak for anyone else but my 1911s run like machine guns.

Gun parts are like Doritos. Screw up all you want. They'll make more.
SGB
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Posted: 2/24/2010 11:21:05 AM
Wrong Forum as noted above - MOVED
"When basic morality and legal principle give you a green light to shoot the fucker, it's probably a good idea to shoot the fucker." - John_Wayne777
Noaccount
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Posted: 2/24/2010 11:53:59 AM
A decent quality 1911 with good mags should run just fine, that being said always bring a spare, hell I take a backup for my glock just in case.

Maintained properly 1911s are a great platform, just make sure you properly test it before showing up to the class.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, only a highly functioning zombie. Take all opinions and advice as you see fit.
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NVGdude
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Posted: 2/24/2010 12:58:10 PM
Originally Posted By Noaccount:
A decent quality 1911 with good mags should run just fine, that being said always bring a spare, hell I take a backup for my glock just in case.
.


2 is 1, 1 is none. I've never had ANY problem with any 1911 that was not directly attributable to out of spec ammo. Regardless, I always bring a spare. I'll even bring a spare revolver if shooting a wheel-gun class/course.
autumnsong
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Posted: 2/24/2010 1:19:22 PM
Like was stated by others above, I have seen primarily Glocks and 1911s in class. In that order of preference. Remember that everything can break. I was in a class once with a guy who had a Smith 38/357 revolver that broke! It seems that the breakages on 1911s that I have seen are 1)ammo related and 2)magazine related. I remember a particular case where a Colt Gold Cup would choke on every 3 or so rounds of Wolf but ran like a fine watch with any other ammo. I saw a Glock 19 with bad factory(!) ammo blow a plastic chunk off the side of the frame and shoot the mag out the bottom. Not surprisingly, once the mag was reinserted and the gun charged it still ran. The only time I have ever seen a XD in class it choked on one particular magazine because the mag got silty dust inside it and bound it up. I have not noticed any Sigs or HK's in class.

Generally speaking, a high quality 1911 with good mags will run without issues. Same with a Glock. For what its worth I have seen less failures with Glocks than 1911s, BUT, most of the 1911s were from crap manufacturers.
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kyreb
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Posted: 2/24/2010 1:24:11 PM
Guess that is why you never see 1911s in USPSA, IPSC, IDPA and steel challenge.

Those have been the real proving grounds for all things handgun related in the last 25 years or so. Every single development of note started out in those "combat" competitions. Overall....the 1911 platform still rules.
RIP: United States of America, Born July 4th, 1776, Died Nov 4th, 2008- SUICIDE
12_gauge
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Posted: 2/24/2010 2:39:04 PM
Lets just say that there is a reason it is recommended by Hilton Yam that departments who choose to adopt the 1911 have 2 pistols issued per-person.

Sorry, not a 1911 cool-aid drinker anymore.
Every ripple has the potential to become a tidal wave.
Ameshawki
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Posted: 2/24/2010 3:03:47 PM
Less. In my IDPA crowd if any gun is going to act up it's a 1911. And not because there are so many of them in use. Typically only have about a quarter of our folks running them.

Lots of reasons for it. Everybody and their brother makes them. So do it right, others don't. Something about the 1911 brings out the amatuer gunsmith in shooters, usually with bad results. Crappy reloads, cheap mags, inexperienced shooters (in my view a 1911 is not a pistol for a newbie).

My personal 1911s have worked BUT, I generally run hardball, I keep my guns clean and lubed, and I don't throw parts at them. I run my guns (all of my guns) stock.
Geohans
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Posted: 2/24/2010 4:10:00 PM
ran 250 rds through my Ron Phillips 1911 in a Warrior School class, Marana AZ. 100deg, lots of sand. Dropped empty mags in the sandy gravel, reloaded them and reinserted them in the pistol.

No failures in the class. But did have trouble disassembling, as the sand had caused the bushing to seize up a bit. Once I got it apart, no problem.
Coltman77
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Posted: 2/24/2010 4:14:39 PM
I love my 1911 Colts, but I'd take an HK product if I were in your position.

Good luck, let us know what you decide and how the course goes.
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Posted: 2/24/2010 4:40:59 PM
Two five day handgun classes, both with 2000 rnds expended, same gun for each, Colt series 70.

No problems, no issues, just like the energizer bunny it kept on ticking.
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Ammo_X_Fuzztone
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Posted: 2/24/2010 5:03:27 PM
In my opinion and experience (and I've been through my share of classes and matches) a 1911 is as reliable as anything else, but it takes more user involvement to get there. You have to know some basics about the platform, like how to set the proper extractor tension. This is more of an issue now that some makers routinely send guns out the door without addressing this very critical step. Most 1911 malfunctions I've seen involve feeding, and getting the extractor tension right is a huge part of this process.

Sometimes you'll see stupid shit, like Bubba's trigger shoe or extended slide stop cause problems. Rarely do I actually see things break on the 1911, mostly problems seem to be the result of maladjustment.

I've seen Glocks break trigger springs, guide rods, and develop slide cracks. Berettas commonly break trigger return springs and locking blocks. SIGs seem to have problems with extractors and magazines.

The last class I attended, the biggest problem was with a HK USP Compact. Somehow the magazine got stuck in the gun and tools were needed to remove it.
chewbacca
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Posted: 2/24/2010 5:49:00 PM
I have been through many courses and without a doubt, 1911's choke more than modern designs.
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xmikex
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Posted: 2/24/2010 5:56:49 PM
Originally Posted By chewbacca:
I have been through many courses and without a doubt, 1911's choke more than modern designs.


+1


I assisted with a course where I witnessed a GI-style 1911 have its safety plunger assembly pop away from the frame and lock up the gun completely. Was it a crappy gun? Yep. Have I seen other 1911s choke? Yep.

If you have a 1911 that runs like a raped ape, then rock out - more power to you. I don't have the patience or money to sink into getting a 1911 to run as reliably as my G19.

Generally, 9mm Glocks tend to be pretty drama-free and that's what I've transitioned to after years of fiddling with other brands.

SGB
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Posted: 2/24/2010 6:10:49 PM
[Last Edit: 2/24/2010 6:14:39 PM by SGB]
Comparing a 1911 to say a Glock is like comparing Cars to a Volkswagen.

The 1911 is a design made by dozens of companies that range from shit to outstanding.

Glock is made by Glock.

Anecdotal evidence is as worthless as tits on a boar hog.

Most malfunctions I've observed where shooter induced, regardless of make, model or caliber.

I'm sure these guys do nothing but bitch about their damn shitty 1911's.


"When basic morality and legal principle give you a green light to shoot the fucker, it's probably a good idea to shoot the fucker." - John_Wayne777
Geohans
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Posted: 2/24/2010 6:29:10 PM
[Last Edit: 2/24/2010 6:34:24 PM by Geohans]
A more interesting way to frame the question: What $500 gun would be best for a class? 1911 might not make the list.
BlitzPig
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Posted: 2/24/2010 6:53:58 PM
Originally Posted By Geohans:
A more interesting way to frame the question: What $500 gun would be best for a class? 1911 might not make the list.



This.
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Posted: 2/24/2010 7:49:14 PM

Originally Posted By Geohans:
A more interesting way to frame the question: What $500 gun would be best for a class? 1911 might not make the list.


That's because the 1911 is harder to manufacture. Plastic parts just have to have the molding lines shaved off them after they come out of the injection molding machine.

No different than the cost difference between a Cav Arms lower compared to a forged lower. Different materials, different manufacturing processes. Just look at how much the Aluminum frames cost for Glocks.
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Foxnews_FTW
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Posted: 2/24/2010 9:11:18 PM
Originally Posted By SGB:
Comparing a 1911 to say a Glock is like comparing Cars to a Volkswagen.

The 1911 is a design made by dozens of companies that range from shit to outstanding.

Glock is made by Glock.

Anecdotal evidence is as worthless as tits on a boar hog.

Most malfunctions I've observed where shooter induced, regardless of make, model or caliber.

I'm sure these guys do nothing but bitch about their damn shitty 1911's.

http://media.knoxnews.com/media/img/photos/2008/08/11/michael%20ferschke%2002_t607.jpg


God, next thing you know you're going to be telling us guys like Delta were/are using 1911s, or even the FBI's HRT. I mean, you'll probably even go on to try to convince everyone that the damn thing has been used since WW1 in the hands of service members abroad, in some horrible conditions- and ran just fine. All of that is obviously false.

You're just a troll SGB.




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ALPHAGHOST
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Posted: 2/24/2010 9:23:10 PM
[Last Edit: 2/24/2010 9:24:49 PM by ALPHAGHOST]
less
less
less
less or on par...

h/w, it REALLY does depend on who makes the gun, who owns the gun and how well he/she maintains it *(just like anything else)...i've seen quite a few 1911s run just fine, but i've seen more 1911s not run too well after a bit



Originally Posted By Irene:
Yes, I know there are a million variations of 1911s, some of them are completely worn out, some are poorly built, and some are the Mercedes of pistols.

However, GENERALLY SPEAKING, have you personally noticed that 1911s as a whole tend to be more or less reliable in a combat course than:

(a) Sigs

(b) HKs

(c) Glocks

(d) Springfield XD



"I'm not stupid; y'all just retarded."--CJ
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dunndw
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Posted: 2/24/2010 9:41:17 PM
I've taken 3 high round count pistol claasses with a 1911

500 round count class with Kimber Pro CDP...no problems

350ish round count with a Wilson Combat...no problems

Another 500 round count class with one of my Nighthawks...no problems

Going to take another carbine/pistol class with my Nighthawk GRP...expecting no issues

My STHF vest is loaded up with 1911 mags...as well as my BOB.

I've seen 1911s, XDs, Glocks...all of them go down for one reason or another. Take what gun you feel comfortable with.
Trigg
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Posted: 2/24/2010 10:22:21 PM
I've run one 2-day class (Tiger Valley Level 1 Pistol) that was almost 1600 rounds with my Baer and I had no malfunctions. I think I was the only one with a 1911 platform and most everyone else ran a 9mm or 40 cal Glock of some sort. Everyone made it through both days without any problems that I could remember.
Derek45
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Posted: 2/24/2010 10:36:11 PM
I fired about 1000 rounds in a Matt Burkett class years ago.

Fired almost that many in a Todd Jarrett class too.(STI 2011)

I knew my custom 1911 would do just fine and it did.

I well tuned 1911 with quality magazines, and ammo is very reliable.

when I see 1911's choke, it's almost always, crap mags, crap handloads, or a crappy 1911

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Ammo_X_Fuzztone
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Posted: 2/24/2010 10:43:22 PM
Originally Posted By Geohans:
A more interesting way to frame the question: What $500 gun would be best for a class? 1911 might not make the list.


The 1911 is definitely not a platform that takes well to economizing.
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