Do you shoot equally well with all handguns? - Page 1

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Posted: 3/15/2017 7:44:56 PM EDT

Inspired by my GD thread here

As a quick recap to that thread (To save the clicks), I tried shooting a S&W M&P (first time), a CZ P-01 (About the 3rd time) and a Glock G19 (Shot half a dozen times or so).I performed noticeably better with the Glock than with the CZ or S&W.

I'm curious if my results here are in the fairway of shooters or whether my hands have betrayed me and only appreciate the soft subtle caress of a Glock.

My results from today are here for those so interested.

Posted: 3/15/2017 7:55:48 PM EDT

[#1]

I am pretty much across the board accurate with my revolvers glocks and 1911's. Some of these guns have more accuracy capability and it shows. Your groups at 7 yards are pretty loose at 7 yards even a trashy high point should be a one ragged hole grouper. Fundamentals are the same regardless of pistol. You need some focus on fundamentals. Some people find they perform only with a single type of pistol, I am lucky to not be that guy.
For example I shot a police match ( b27 target 48 round match with half the round fired at 25 yards ) my scores from revolver, 1911 and glock ranged from a low of 468/480 to 471/480

Posted: 3/15/2017 7:59:42 PM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
I am pretty much across the board accurate with my revolvers glocks and 1911's. Some of these guns have more accuracy capability and it shows. Your groups at 7 yards are pretty loose at 7 yards even a trashy high point should be a one ragged hole grouper. Fundamentals are the same regardless of pistol. You need some focus on fundamentals. Some people find they perform only with a single type of pistol, I am lucky to not be that guy.
For example I shot a police match ( b27 target 48 round match with half the round fired at 25 yards ) my scores from revolver, 1911 and glock ranged from a low of 468/480 to 471/480

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I appreciate your tactful method of telling me I suck.

But seriously, I know my handgun shooting is bad. I've never claimed nor pretended otherwise, and I've taken a step back and decided to fix that. In fact todays range session I tried to not get too caught up in shooting and focus on the fundamentals. Still have a long ways to go, at least with everything besides the Glock.

Posted: 3/15/2017 8:14:00 PM EDT

[#3]

We won't shoot every gun equally. Some we are more used to others. However, groupings should all be similar no matter the platform.

Posted: 3/15/2017 8:24:39 PM EDT

[#4]

Yes
Once you master the fundamentals, it's easy. Next would be controls pairs and triple taps, then on multiple targets. Make sure you know which eye is dominant. We had NAs that didn't and they were all over the target. They would focus on their other eye.
Pick a spot on the wall and then use your strong hand index finger to point to it with both eyes open. Then close one eye at a time to see if the spot you aimed at corresponded to the index pointing finger. The non dominant eye will be off completely.

First range session with VP9 Tactical at 10 yards. Four targets. Ten rounds each. Forty rounds total. Started out on lower right and ended up on the lower left.

Standard VP9LE. Again ten out, ten rounds.

Same gun, 25 yards out, fifty rounds.

Sig 1911 Compact, head shot, 15 yards out, shoulder is 25 yards out.

HK45C, 15 yards out, fifty rounds.

Sig 225, 15 yards out, controlled pairs, 100 rounds, and some triples mixed in with the head shots.

Posted: 3/15/2017 8:44:15 PM EDT

[#5]

I'm generally about the same across all HG platforms. Miserable, guess I need to shoot more.

Posted: 3/15/2017 9:21:23 PM EDT

[#6]

I am definitely not equal on all of my hand guns. I have two accurate 1911s, the CZ75 P01 is pretty good and so is the FEG PA63 (fixed barrel). Almost forgot the 1925 Colt .22 with 6.5" barrel. Others, not so much; Hi-Power, Taurus 24/7 .45, Colt Gov Model 1953, Kel Tec P11, etc. I just don't put in the range time with any of them to get really good, but the ones I mentioned can hit a silver dollar at 15 yards - that's what I mean by 'accurate'. I don't shoot any hand gun at 25 yds or farther.

Posted: 3/15/2017 9:28:50 PM EDT

[#7]

Slow fire, yes, I'm similar across. I recently tested the VP9, PPQ, P320, FNS, M&P and RAP, 15 rounds each at 7 yards. Targets didn't look too different (except the PPQ cuz I changed sights which changed POI). Google all 6 pistols at once and you might find my results.

Rapid fire is where things change. I'm pretty consistent with my P229 (.40), which isn't surprising as I have the most trigger time on it. With the P228, I tend to track down a bit, I presume because I'm used to what it takes to keep the .40 on target and push down a bit with the lower 9 recoil. The SP2022 is similar to the P229, I presume it rises similar because it's lighter so the 9mm recoils similar to the .40. Same for the PPQ. The VP9 strings up and to the right unless I death grip it. I don't like the P7 trigger much and am susceptible to short stroking. Even gas-delayed, the direct blowback 9mm jumps a fair amount too. My 1911 is the anniversary edition with the tiny sights. Can't remember if I've ever even rapid fired it. It's dead nuts, just takes an extra moment with the small sights.

Anyway, my point is fundamentals translate across platforms. Yes, you will be better with some platforms and worse with others, but understand that is a function of YOU, not the platform. Someone who starts with a 1911 may likely struggle with a gritty Glock or a true DAO, because the light SAO can be rather forgiving. But I strongly recommend people take classes from a reputable instructor and challenging themselves. By all means, buy the pistol you shoot the best, but don't use it as a crutch and/or mod it to hide a lack of fundamentals.

One of the biggest mistakes you can make is simply just shooting more. You ingrain bad habits that way. Get training, and practice the good habits you learn in training.

Posted: 3/15/2017 10:02:37 PM EDT

[#8]

I'm about the same with all handguns, at my age the limiting factor is my eyes.

Posted: 3/15/2017 10:16:18 PM EDT

[#9]

Once I really learned how to shoot, yes. I can pick up just about anyone elses' handgun and shoot a baseball sized group at 15 yards. The biggest difference is speed.

Posted: 3/15/2017 10:42:55 PM EDT

[#10]

I do pretty well.

Posted: 3/15/2017 10:57:30 PM EDT

[#11]

For me, slow fire accuracy is like 99% how I mesh with the trigger.

Posted: 3/15/2017 11:34:16 PM EDT

[#12]

No, I do not shoot all my handguns with the same accuracy. You definitely shot better with the Glock. That might be a winner for you.

Posted: 3/16/2017 12:12:40 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Once I really learned how to shoot, yes. I can pick up just about anyone elses' handgun and shoot a baseball sized group at 15 yards. The biggest difference is speed.

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QFT

Posted: 3/16/2017 8:58:21 AM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
Once I really learned how to shoot, yes. I can pick up just about anyone elses' handgun and shoot a baseball sized group at 15 yards. The biggest difference is speed.

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Pretty much this.... Some grips are not as comfortable or some pistols are to small for me but generally I can shoot anything really well so long as it has decent sights and a trigger that is not 10# pounds.

I regularly shoot Glocks, Sigs, CZ, 1911s, M&Ps, small carry pistols, friends pistols when we trade off just for fun, and anything else out there. It is all about fundamental and trigger discipline.

Posted: 3/16/2017 11:31:07 AM EDT

[#15]

For the most part yes.

But it is easier with any of the guns I have set up for Bullseye competition.

Part of the difficulty of competitive Bullseye is delivering 270 shots in at least two caliber (.22 RF and .45 ACP) usually over two days at 25 and 50 yards.

Posted: 3/16/2017 1:49:06 PM EDT

[#16]

I can shoot well enough to tell an accurate gun from an inaccurate gun.

Posted: 3/16/2017 2:12:51 PM EDT

[#17]

The biggest challenge for me is just adjusting to the different triggers (SA/DA, SAO, DAO, various striker types, etc.). Everything else I can adjust to relatively well, but it does take me a few rounds to adjust. Now, if you're talking speed, magazine changes, FTE/FTF drills, etc. and not just accuracy, than it takes me a little longer to switch handguns and get acclimated beyond just accurately punching holes.

ROCK6

Posted: 3/16/2017 4:43:08 PM EDT

[#18]

I can miss with anything. I don't mean to brag but I will put my ability to miss up against anyone on any platform.

Posted: 3/16/2017 4:52:47 PM EDT

[#19]

That depends on the conditions.

Off a bench with no time constraint? Accuracy is about the same regardless of what I am shooting.

Drawing from concealment on a timer? Some guns are more equal than others.

Posted: 3/16/2017 8:40:16 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
I can shoot well enough to tell an accurate gun from an inaccurate gun.

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Same here, you can really tell without burning up tons of ammo either.

Posted: 3/16/2017 10:14:41 PM EDT

[#21]

My best groups are with a couple of my CZ's. Better than the Glock, M&P, XDM or Brownings I own.

Posted: 3/17/2017 12:37:34 PM EDT

[#22]

I shoot my old H&K P7 the best.

Next, although it is really way too big for my Trumpish hands, I shoot my GLOCK 21 fairly well.

Love 1911s and revolvers, but I am no great shakes with either. Shoot a Beretta 92 decently, suck with my SIG 226.

Posted: 3/17/2017 1:03:07 PM EDT

[#23]

Beats me. Seems they all stack into about the same group size offhand these days. What's frustrating is that my bone stock G19 and Springfield GI shoot the same 2-3" at 15yds as the Springfield 1911 that has a professionally fit Kart NM barrel and bushing. It puts 8rds into a ragged hole at 25yds ransomed, but not in my paws.

Posted: 3/17/2017 3:25:27 PM EDT

[#24]

No. I shoot very well with my NHC 1911 and really well with all of my H&K P7M13's and M8's as well as my CZ 75. My Glock 17 is the worst pistol as far as accuracy wise for me. It remains an under the bathroom sink gun for emergencies.

Posted: 3/17/2017 4:53:01 PM EDT

[#25]

All types of handguns sure, as long as they are the same caliber. Shoot different calibers differently though.

Posted: 3/17/2017 9:56:46 PM EDT

[#26]

In a slightly different aspect.

I shoot southpaw generally but train both ways. My groups LH/RH with my Sig's, Glocks, and several other pistols match. The exception is the 1911 platform. I get consistently better groupings RH even though this would be considered my weak/off side. No idea why the 1911 is the odd ball. With the P-35 BHP groups will match exactly and usually much better than a Beretta 92.

Posted: 3/17/2017 10:07:35 PM EDT

[#27]

NOPE!

Last time I took a bunch of them out to shoot at the same distance I did really well with a .357, pretty close to that with a silenced G17, almost ok with a 1911 and shit with a G20

Posted: 3/18/2017 8:38:19 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
In a slightly different aspect.

I shoot southpaw generally but train both ways. My groups LH/RH with my Sig's, Glocks, and several other pistols match. The exception is the 1911 platform. I get consistently better groupings RH even though this would be considered my weak/off side. No idea why the 1911 is the odd ball. With the P-35 BHP groups will match exactly and usually much better than a Beretta 92.

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Because John Browning was right handed.

Posted: 3/18/2017 3:03:43 PM EDT

[#29]

I'm most accurate with my 1911s, both 45ACP and 9mm. Next best for me is my S&W Shield 9mm and 45ACP. I have two revolvers that I do ok with, a Ruger Blackhawk and a Ruger Redhawk, they are both 45Colt/45ACP convertibles.

Posted: 3/19/2017 9:11:39 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
I can miss with anything. I don't mean to brag but I will put my ability to miss up against anyone on any platform.

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LOL! I hear what you're sayin'! But really, some pistols are just bloody awful. I like taking my MK IV/Series '70 Government Model (completely original) out to the indoor range every so often and where most guys will have a big silhouette right in front of them, I stick a 6" Shoot-n-See on and send it down all the way to 45', then put the whole mag in the stick-on target. And that's fairly rapid fire, a second or two between shots. Now if I had my Kel Tec P11, I'd yell for everybody to get down before shooting it - imagine Mr. Magoo with a pistol. :)

Posted: 3/19/2017 11:36:56 PM EDT

[#31]

Most any quality hand gun.... Glock, Sig, HK, Walther, Beretta you name it has enough inherent accuracy to make pretty much one hole at 7 yards, and touching or close to touching at 15. Beyond 15 yards to 25, is where you'll see accuracy differences. At least that's been my experience. This of course presupposes the shooter is using impeccable technique.

The big difference comes in how the particular gun fits and how you interact with the trigger. My DA/SA pistols suffer in the DA mode, probably because I don't practice enough in that mode. In SA mode or with striker fired pistols I'm pretty close on all of them. I shoot Glocks better at speed, and SAO (1911) better for pure static accuracy. My least accurate (for me) gun is SW 642. That little sucker is just hard to shoot well. I can hit center of mass out to 15 yards, but the paper bad-guy might take a few in the groin or left tit.

Posted: 3/20/2017 7:44:21 PM EDT

[#32]

striker fired and single action semi-autos yes I shoot my 2011 and M&P9 the best but in those categories I'm pretty much the same with every gun I have tried.

double action revolvers and double action semi-autos not so much.

Posted: 3/20/2017 9:25:23 PM EDT

[#33]

YES! 40yrs of shoot'n will do that for you! Keep practicing, you'll get there!

Posted: 3/21/2017 11:58:56 AM EDT

[#34]

I used to shoot 1911's way better than striker fired guns, but I have gotten better with those with practice.

I do still sometimes have brain farts and shoot striker fired guns mediocre, especially after starting a range session with a 1911 and switching to my M&P's. Takes me half a mag or so to settle into that.

Posted: 3/21/2017 12:25:32 PM EDT

[#35]

Pretty much. Last night I shot the Dot Drill with two VERY DIFFERENT pistols I had bought at the Gunshow this last weekend. One was a Sig 320. Never shot one before, ever. Shot a 46 at 5 yards- normally I shoot at 10 but with a new gun etc....The other pistol was an Beretta M9a1- I shot each first shot DA. Shot a 47.

I have shot the same drill in the last two weeks with a 1911, a CZ 75 and Hi Power, several Glocks and a S&W M&P. Results were all fairly comparable- within a few points either way.

"You should not have a favorite weapon, or any other exaggerated preference for that matter. To become overly attached to one weapon is as bad as not knowing it sufficiently well. You should not imitate others, but use those weapons which suit you, and which you can handle properly. It is bad for both commanders and troopers to entertain likes and dislikes. Pragmatic thinking is essential. These are things you must learn thoroughly."

Miyamoto Musashi, Book of 5 Rings

Some things never change, and yet we have to "rediscover" them.....

Posted: 3/21/2017 9:28:54 PM EDT

[#36]

Slow fire, yes. Rapid fire, I am best with my CZ75b.

Posted: 3/21/2017 9:37:17 PM EDT

[#37]

Some fine groupings in this thread

Posted: 3/21/2017 10:16:01 PM EDT

[#38]

I need to work on my da grouping with my sig 2022. Relatively new pistol and first da/sa semi auto. Everything else is a striker fired.

Posted: 3/23/2017 9:07:08 AM EDT

[#39]

Theres a huge difference with me and all my handguns. I have revolvers with GREAT triggers and subcompact striker fired "night stand" guns and a lot of in betweens. I probably shoot my Gold Match II target 45 acp the best when looking at groups.

Posted: 3/25/2017 4:37:05 PM EDT

[#40]

I seem to do a lot better with 1911s than I do with any of my other handguns.

Posted: 3/25/2017 5:47:27 PM EDT

[#41]

I'm equally accurate with Glocks, XD, M&P, Berettas, Revolvers, and Sig

CZs I can pick up any model and put bullets exactly where I want them.

Posted: 3/30/2017 11:50:11 PM EDT

[#42]

Pretty much the same, but my Les Baer just seems to be the best shooting pistol I have ever shot.

Posted: 4/1/2017 6:00:47 PM EDT

[#43]

Either you have a good skill set or you do not. If the gun is in good working condition and has accurate ammo. People can make all kinds of excuses!

Posted: 4/4/2017 9:28:01 PM EDT

[#44]

I have a Sig P230 that I can not shoot well, maybe too small. Everything else is about equal.

Posted: 4/9/2017 9:49:41 AM EDT

[#45]

Given equal number of rounds/range time with a particular handgun brand/model, it is highly likely that I will shoot them somewhat equally.

Comparing a handgun brand/model/etc that I shoot predominantly vs. one that I shoot rarely......I'm going to shoot the one I'm familiar with better.

Posted: 4/10/2017 7:30:34 AM EDT

[#46]

I've owned at one point pretty much all of the major platforms and have sold off everything and just have CZs now.

Posted: 4/13/2017 2:00:18 AM EDT

[#47]

I generally shoot all pistols the same when it comes to just accuracy (taking the mechanical accuracy of the weapon into consideration). When other factors such as speed, reloads, etc come into play I can shoot noticeably better with my Glocks as that is where I focus my training.

A shot timer doesn't lie and all factors combined, Glock wins for me. That being said, there is no doubt in my mind if I trained enough with another platform it would be comparable. I no longer chase the perfect handgun, I have standardized on Glocks for duty, HD, and CCW needs. I train until I plateau and then I train some more. At first it was seconds I was training on. Now it's tenths of seconds and consistency I train for.

I know this isn't the point of the thread but nonetheless focus on training with one gun until you plateau. Then switch and see how long it takes to get to that point with another weapon. I usually pick one thing to focus on for every range trip. Last week was reloads so all I did was 1 reload 1, 2 reload 2, and many other moving/shooting variations of drills focusing on my reloads. This week I will focus strictly on moving while shooting. The trip after that will be target transitions.

It works for me and has really made me a better shooter. Of course YMMV but I think most people would agree that "deliberate practice" (yeah, yeah Haley fanboy) is far more effective than just shooting.

And FWIW I "study" many shooters some of which you will not know because they aren't famous.

Posted: 4/13/2017 11:21:09 AM EDT

[#48]

Good points I was about to make. Can I draw, reload, transition, transfer etc. all guns equally well? Hell no and people who say they can are lying.

Quote History

Quoted:
I generally shoot all pistols the same when it comes to just accuracy (taking the mechanical accuracy of the weapon into consideration). When other factors such as speed, reloads, etc come into play I can shoot noticeably better with my Glocks as that is where I focus my training.

A shot timer doesn't lie and all factors combined, Glock wins for me. That being said, there is no doubt in my mind if I trained enough with another platform it would be comparable. I no longer chase the perfect handgun, I have standardized on Glocks for duty, HD, and CCW needs. I train until I plateau and then I train some more. At first it was seconds I was training on. Now it's tenths of seconds and consistency I train for.

I know this isn't the point of the thread but nonetheless focus on training with one gun until you plateau. Then switch and see how long it takes to get to that point with another weapon. I usually pick one thing to focus on for every range trip. Last week was reloads so all I did was 1 reload 1, 2 reload 2, and many other moving/shooting variations of drills focusing on my reloads. This week I will focus strictly on moving while shooting. The trip after that will be target transitions.

It works for me and has really made me a better shooter. Of course YMMV but I think most people would agree that "deliberate practice" (yeah, yeah Haley fanboy) is far more effective than just shooting.

And FWIW I "study" many shooters some of which you will not know because they aren't famous.

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Posted: 4/13/2017 11:43:04 AM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
Good points I was about to make. Can I draw, reload, transition, transfer etc. all guns equally well? Hell no and people who say they can are lying.

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If the holster and mags are in the same place, why would changing the gun matter?