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Posted: 8/21/2016 10:55:32 PM EDT
I know it's a trigger control issue.
I've tried more finger, less finger, I've dry-fired the shit out of them, I always shoot low left. I spent some time today really trying to figure it out, and I'm not getting anywhere.'' If I shoot faster, I seem to hit better, but still low left, and as I stretch the distance out, it obviously gets worse. The top orange dot, is with my Glock 23 at 7yds, and the bottom orange dot is with my SA LB Operator also at 7yds. Both times shooting fairly quickly. If I slow down shooting, the 1911 will make 1 ragged hole, and the Glock will wander even more. 
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Posted: 8/21/2016 11:00:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Practice.. finger strength... I shot left in the past as well, and found that I was using too much finger and hand to move the trigger. Instead of pulling rear, I was pulling rear and pushing left. Compenstate with better two hand hold, and focus on getting your "push" out of your pull.
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Posted: 8/21/2016 11:04:41 PM EDT
[#2]
I would buy some orange plastic training rounds and mix 1-2 in per mag.
Anticipating recoil is very common. I've been training on it for years but always good to work the basics |
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Posted: 8/21/2016 11:10:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Low-left usually reflects "flinch" for a right handed shooter. Relax, breathe, squeeze, let it happen.
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Posted: 8/21/2016 11:17:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Low-left usually reflects "flinch" for a right handed shooter. Relax, breathe, squeeze, let it happen. This, assuming that it happens with more than just that one Glock. |
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Posted: 8/21/2016 11:35:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Have you shot off a rest to confirm its not the sights? (It usually isn't.)
I would also suggest using a tiny 1/2" or 1" DOT in the middle of those targets. Frankly, you didn't have a real dog to aim at. Aim small hit small. Perhaps tighten your grip and loosen your grip. I tend to hit low left WHEN I'm under time pressure AND when I first start shooting for a day. But as the time wears on, my group moves to the center. -- I was shooting low left at like 15Y the other day--these were the first 3 mags out of the new G42. Anyway. I waked up to about 5Y, aimed at a lone bullet hole, and went super slow. My shot hit the hole making it a bit ragged. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 12:09:14 AM EDT
[#6]
The longer trigger pull of the Glock is giving you more time for the flinch/movement to be evident. Your other group is going low-left also, just not as far. You may be squeezing your other fingers in addition to the trigger, or flinching as previously mentioned. You may not be squeezing on the grip as hard when dry firing.
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:03:11 AM EDT
[#7]
Make sure you are using trigger reset after the first trigger pull and shot you hold the trigger to the rear and do NOT fully release it but while recovering from recoil let off just enough to hear and or feel the reset click which will result in a trigger pull less than half the travel distance. I am an old bullseye shooter and use an old school tip of the finger trigger position and have no trouble with low left. In fact most of my glock sights are adjusted a hair left for center zero. You should not need more finger in or on the trigger to fix this. It is just basic fundamentals
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:07:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Also do not speed up until your seven yard groups are one ragged hole consistently and only speed up to the point you can maintain reasonable accuracy- once it gets sloppy slow back down again.
Also limit practice to no more than 100 rounds per session more than the and you get fatigued and sloppy Practice is only good if every shot is broken properly doing this perfectly every shot is tiring Your mind tends to recall the last thing you do so always slow down and break a mag full of perfect shots at the end of practice |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:11:25 AM EDT
[#9]
Seems to be some pretty good answers above, but ill throw in my particular situation too in case it helps somebody out.
I found that I usually shoot a little left with my glocks, not low but just left of center. Finally in a defensive HG course this past weekend my instructor was working with me and finally we figured it out. With my support hand grip, everything was good as far as position and grip strength etc, but the index finger on my support hand was riding high and putting pressure on my trigger finger as I was shooting. I get a good high grip with both hands, and I think that leads to me issue as my support hand index finger just naturally ends up high under the trigger guard when I wrap it around. So after working on it consciously for the next few hours, my shots slowly crept towards the center. I still struggle with it, but am getting better at changing my natural grip to remedy this issue. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 1:12:07 AM EDT
[#10]
You're flinching, and probably closing your eyes for a split second.
Get a cheap laser sight and mount to the rail and adjust it so it sits about a little above the sights at in home distances. Put a target on the wall, clear the gun and dry fire at the target. You can now watch the laser dot move as you pull the trigger. Keep practicing until you can pull the trigger without moving the dot. Don't let yourself close your eyes, make yourself keep your eyes open and follow the laser dot. When you can pull the trigger without moving the dot or closing your eyes, it's time to go the the range and get acclimated to live fire. Have a friend put a couple of dummy rounds in with the live ones. Make yourself watch the laser pointer if it's visible. The good news is that once you learn this for one gun it typically works for all of them. I've seen people flinch horribly with a 22 pistol, but once they learn not to it's pretty easy to transition them to high power guns. Oh, and make sure you have good hearing protection. Lousy hearing protection is one reason why some people flinch. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 4:11:15 AM EDT
[#11]
Your problem is that you're shooting a Glock.....
As others have said, most likely flinch. I had a new shooter friend buy a G23, and a couple months in call me to ask for help, as his sights had drifted. I asked him how far low left it was shooting at 10 yards. He said "how did you know it was low left? Is that a known problem with Glocks?" I responded "No, it's a known problem with Glock shooters!" The Glock trigger pull takes a lot to get used to in order to shoot them well, IME. I can shoot a 1911, CZ, or Beretta well almost without though (at least in single action) but a Glock takes a whole lot of "front sight, trigger press" concentration for me not to pull the shot. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 7:55:58 AM EDT
[#12]
Get a sig!! Sorry had to throw that in. What helps me is to make sure you have a very strong grip on your weak hand, and the grip on you strong hand needs to be more pressure on the front and back strap of the grip, , kinda like you milking it. With glocks a lot of people do not have a proper grip and it really shows. I don't think you're flinching, I think you are allowing the gun with a weak grip to move left every time you shoot. Once you get the proper grip, you may need to find the right placement of the pad of your finger. Lastly with the trigger pull, focus on pulling the trigger straight back, almost as if you are pulling the right side of the trigger straight back.
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Posted: 8/22/2016 8:34:07 AM EDT
[#13]
drift your rear sight to the right and relax thats common for glocks to shoot like that just check the internet.
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Posted: 8/22/2016 8:36:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Low-left usually reflects "flinch" for a right handed shooter. Relax, breathe, squeeze, let it happen. This^ The 23 is a snappy bastard and will get you to develop bad habits if you let it |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 8:44:40 AM EDT
[#15]
I was having the same problem with my Glocks. Tried and tried to correct it. Finally said screw it and floated my sights a little to the right and readjusted my hold point. No more low left
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Posted: 8/22/2016 9:44:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Weak hand grip causes this a lot more than foks think.
It's hard to explain in the written word so hang in there and see if it makes sense. It's so easy to demonstrate in person When you tighten your grip during the trigger press your weak hand tends to tighten as well. Look at where your weak hand fingers ride on your strong hand. If they are closer to the middles knuckles it acts as a lever and can pull to the weak side. Try wrapping you grip around a little further so your weak hand finger tips are close or touching the fist knuckles. I'm gonna shoot some pics and see if that will help. It seems odd but for some reason I have found this to be more prevalent with Glocks than other pistols. I'm no guru so I can't begin to understand why. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 10:21:42 AM EDT
[#17]
I went ahead and shot a small vid to explain what I was talking about.
I'm not a pro so be gentle Flame away
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Posted: 8/22/2016 10:25:24 AM EDT
[#18]
Try gripping harder with the support hand.
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Posted: 8/22/2016 10:33:21 AM EDT
[#19]
You flinch. You have to train yourself to pull through the shot and not be scared of the bang. I used to shoot low left.
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Posted: 8/22/2016 10:49:33 AM EDT
[#20]
Good thread, I have this problem and was looking for thoughts on it online but as usual, a huge knowledge base here. I'm shooting a 26 and a 43 and shoot both low left. Also shoot a Kimber Ultra CarryII which is a snappy pistol but have no problem with it going left, so I suspect is a combination of my grip and the trigger pull being different.
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Posted: 8/22/2016 10:54:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Try gripping harder with the support hand. Aside from any other issues, nearly every shooter doesn't grip strongly enough. Grip the shit out of the gun!!! |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 11:35:33 AM EDT
[#22]
Fantastic info! ARFCOM comes through again.
I'm heading back to the range on Wed, so I'll try a few of these and see what helps. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 2:28:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I went ahead and shot a small vid to explain what I was talking about. I'm not a pro so be gentle Flame away
 https://youtu.be/dxsLnXuDwdMThanks for the video |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 3:34:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I went ahead and shot a small vid to explain what I was talking about. I'm not a pro so be gentle Flame away
https://youtu.be/dxsLnXuDwdMGreat video here is your flaming! Great explanation and articulation. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 4:22:53 PM EDT
[#25]
I try.
I teach gun stuff several times a week to hundreds, but it's different when I'm not in front of a class demonstrating. I keep saying I'm gonna start having video shot when I'm teaching but never get around to it. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 5:05:30 PM EDT
[#26]
I used to do it with my 19 I had. I don't do it with my 26. I'm not sure what the difference is. I did what someone recommended though and instead of placing my left thumb real hard on the frame, I float it up less tight and higher, over the frame and alongside the slide. And my right thumb in a similar position. I don't know if that's what made the difference or not. Could just be the shape of the gun for me. But it might be worth a try. Because I don't shoot the 26 low left at all. It's weird. I would've thought it was flinch or recoil anticipation also, but now I'm not so sure.
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Posted: 8/22/2016 5:51:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great video here is your flaming! Great explanation and articulation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I went ahead and shot a small vid to explain what I was talking about. I'm not a pro so be gentle Flame away
https://youtu.be/dxsLnXuDwdMGreat video here is your flaming! Great explanation and articulation. |
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Posted: 8/22/2016 9:15:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Glocks can be a real PITA to shoot and sometimes they really do shoot left. I had. gen 4 34 that legitimately shot 3" left at 25 yards with the sights centered.
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Posted: 8/22/2016 9:55:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Y'all are calling it flinching. I call it jerking the trigger. I know, semantics. Either way, IMO best cured with dry firing the shit out of the offending firearm and reinforcing the new training with shooting a pellet gun and .22LR.
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Posted: 8/22/2016 11:47:19 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Y'all are calling it flinching. I call it jerking the trigger. I know, semantics. Jerking the trigger usually results in low and right for right handed shooters - not semantics, mechanics. |
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Posted: 8/23/2016 1:30:54 PM EDT
[#31]
I also have a question about shooting Glocks. For some reason, I have to get a tremendous purchase on my trigger. When I shoot my G19 or G17, the trigger rests in the first knuckle of my finger. When I try to dry fire practice and press the trigger in the "normal" way, the dot on my red dot bounces way more than I would like. And when I shoot that way I'm not nearly as accurate. Is there anything I can do to combat this? Would an aftermarket trigger be a good idea? Or should I just keep shooting with a ton of finger on the trigger?
Here are some examples: 
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Posted: 8/23/2016 1:45:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Based on grip/wrist angle and trigger reach, I have found through my SIRT gun that with Glock, I have a tendency to perceive me "pulling straight back" as actually pushing laterally slightly, to the left.
When I shoot Glocks, I focus on pulling the trigger slightly to the right. When I watch my press, I realize that is actually straight back, its just the ergo's of the gun. This is mitigated slightly with flat face triggers, which at the end of their travel, are actually starting to point backwards; helps with the angles that make me perceive a straight pull that is infact slightly left. Try it during dry fire. Induce an ever so slight "right and back" press, and you may find that it is actually perfectly straight back. |
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Posted: 8/23/2016 3:33:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I also have a question about shooting Glocks. For some reason, I have to get a tremendous purchase on my trigger. When I shoot my G19 or G17, the trigger rests in the first knuckle of my finger. When I try to dry fire practice and press the trigger in the "normal" way, the dot on my red dot bounces way more than I would like. And when I shoot that way I'm not nearly as accurate. Is there anything I can do to combat this? Would an aftermarket trigger be a good idea? Or should I just keep shooting with a ton of finger on the trigger? Here are some examples: http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u678/572890/Firearms/20160823_121633_zpsdi8bpcaw.jpg http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u678/572890/Firearms/20160823_121642_zpsihoqabhw.jpg http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u678/572890/Firearms/20160823_121652_zpsbb65uzdn.jpg There is a school of thought that when shooting a pistol you should reach your finger way deep into it and it works for some folks. I know a 3 gun guy that runs his pistols like that and is very good, and he told me when he started doing it his accuracy got much better. I saw a vid by a famous gun traininer that explains all the mechanics of it and it makes sense. I'll see if I can dig it up and share it. I have tried it and it does not work for me. I use the center of my pad with my first knuckle flat which causes my second knckle to be bent at 90 deg. |
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Posted: 8/23/2016 3:44:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Found it.
Like I said above, doesn't work for me but give it a shot
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Posted: 8/23/2016 6:10:15 PM EDT
[#35]
 Use the center of your finger pad. Use a smooth pull. Some folks just don't shoot a Glock well. Your dilemma isn't too bad, but distance will magnify it. Use both hands, be smooth, and stop thinking too much. Glock isn't my favorite pistol, but it is the one I rely on and go to every day. It has it's shortcomings for many, but it is anvil reliable and simple. |
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Posted: 8/23/2016 9:48:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://savannaharsenal.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/trigger-finger-placement.jpg Use the center of your finger pad. Use a smooth pull. Some folks just don't shoot a Glock well. Your dilemma isn't too bad, but distance will magnify it. Use both hands, be smooth, and stop thinking too much. Glock isn't my favorite pistol, but it is the one I rely on and go to every day. It has it's shortcomings for many, but it is anvil reliable and simple. I'm sorry, but that chart is next to useless and has been thoroughly debunked. It fails to account for a host of important variables such as individual anatomy and hand geometry, the role of the support hand, trigger control, etc. One size never fits all when we're dealing with pistol shooting. Experimentation is key. |
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Posted: 8/23/2016 10:27:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is a school of thought that when shooting a pistol you should reach your finger way deep into it and it works for some folks. I know a 3 gun guy that runs his pistols like that and is very good, and he told me when he started doing it his accuracy got much better. I saw a vid by a famous gun traininer that explains all the mechanics of it and it makes sense. I'll see if I can dig it up and share it. I have tried it and it does not work for me. I use the center of my pad with my first knuckle flat which causes my second knckle to be bent at 90 deg. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I also have a question about shooting Glocks. For some reason, I have to get a tremendous purchase on my trigger. When I shoot my G19 or G17, the trigger rests in the first knuckle of my finger. When I try to dry fire practice and press the trigger in the "normal" way, the dot on my red dot bounces way more than I would like. And when I shoot that way I'm not nearly as accurate. Is there anything I can do to combat this? Would an aftermarket trigger be a good idea? Or should I just keep shooting with a ton of finger on the trigger? Here are some examples: http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u678/572890/Firearms/20160823_121633_zpsdi8bpcaw.jpg http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u678/572890/Firearms/20160823_121642_zpsihoqabhw.jpg http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u678/572890/Firearms/20160823_121652_zpsbb65uzdn.jpg There is a school of thought that when shooting a pistol you should reach your finger way deep into it and it works for some folks. I know a 3 gun guy that runs his pistols like that and is very good, and he told me when he started doing it his accuracy got much better. I saw a vid by a famous gun traininer that explains all the mechanics of it and it makes sense. I'll see if I can dig it up and share it. I have tried it and it does not work for me. I use the center of my pad with my first knuckle flat which causes my second knckle to be bent at 90 deg. Thanks for the reply. I shoot Glocks extremely well with the knuckle of my finger on the trigger but it's the only gun I do that with. Its odd. Do you think a flat trigger like the one from Agency Arms would help me at all? I shoot my SW MP CORE the regular way and I don't have that issue. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 10:03:42 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm sorry, but that chart is next to useless and has been thoroughly debunked. It fails to account for a host of important variables such as individual anatomy and hand geometry, the role of the support hand, trigger control, etc. One size never fits all when we're dealing with pistol shooting. Experimentation is key. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
https://savannaharsenal.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/trigger-finger-placement.jpg Use the center of your finger pad. Use a smooth pull. Some folks just don't shoot a Glock well. Your dilemma isn't too bad, but distance will magnify it. Use both hands, be smooth, and stop thinking too much. Glock isn't my favorite pistol, but it is the one I rely on and go to every day. It has it's shortcomings for many, but it is anvil reliable and simple. I'm sorry, but that chart is next to useless and has been thoroughly debunked. It fails to account for a host of important variables such as individual anatomy and hand geometry, the role of the support hand, trigger control, etc. One size never fits all when we're dealing with pistol shooting. Experimentation is key. Plus it's complete opposite of what a lot of experts say, like Pat McNamara. I believe the video where he explains using a lot of trigger finger is good has already been posted here. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 1:04:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plus it's complete opposite of what a lot of experts say, like Pat McNamara. I believe the video where he explains using a lot of trigger finger is good has already been posted here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://savannaharsenal.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/trigger-finger-placement.jpg Use the center of your finger pad. Use a smooth pull. Some folks just don't shoot a Glock well. Your dilemma isn't too bad, but distance will magnify it. Use both hands, be smooth, and stop thinking too much. Glock isn't my favorite pistol, but it is the one I rely on and go to every day. It has it's shortcomings for many, but it is anvil reliable and simple. I'm sorry, but that chart is next to useless and has been thoroughly debunked. It fails to account for a host of important variables such as individual anatomy and hand geometry, the role of the support hand, trigger control, etc. One size never fits all when we're dealing with pistol shooting. Experimentation is key. Plus it's complete opposite of what a lot of experts say, like Pat McNamara. I believe the video where he explains using a lot of trigger finger is good has already been posted here. It also fails to account for differences in trigger mechanics such as the diffence in a 2# 2011 trigger and DA/SA guns with hinged triggers. You have to get even more finger on the trigger on a hinged heavy DA pull for proper trigger control. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 3:56:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I went ahead and shot a small vid to explain what I was talking about. I'm not a pro so be gentle Flame away
https://youtu.be/dxsLnXuDwdMGreat vid, I have the same tendencies, thank you! |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 4:56:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Besides shooting a Glock?
Expecting a decent trigger is the next problem. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 5:09:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Besides shooting a Glock? Expecting a decent trigger is the next problem. Amazing contribution to a technical discussion. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 7:02:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Good info.
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Posted: 8/24/2016 8:07:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Try not to shoot two different guns at the same time.
I.e. Glock and 1911. Practice with one only and you will do much better. Sounds crazy but when I left the TRP at home my 19/17 shooting became shy of outstanding. Shot the glocks only every weekend for a month and got to where I could run the plate rack (slow but steady) at 65 yards. I have arfcommers as witnesses. Need to see if I still got it this weekend (have a 7 week old and have had limited range time )
And most importantly shoot a lot.....drift your rear sight to the right a smidge |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 9:36:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jerking the trigger usually results in low and right for right handed shooters - not semantics, mechanics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Y'all are calling it flinching. I call it jerking the trigger. I know, semantics. Jerking the trigger usually results in low and right for right handed shooters - not semantics, mechanics. Not on any trigger chart I've ever seen. Low right is for Lefties. http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p198/Echo_Four_Bravo/Pistol-Correction-RH-Mini.jpg |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 9:44:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not on any trigger chart I've ever seen. Low right is for Lefties. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Y'all are calling it flinching. I call it jerking the trigger. I know, semantics. Jerking the trigger usually results in low and right for right handed shooters - not semantics, mechanics. Not on any trigger chart I've ever seen. Low right is for Lefties. Not on any trigger chart I've ever credited - I'm basing it on teaching experience. But no point in arguing - guess we'll have to agree to disagree. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 10:00:41 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not on any trigger chart I've ever credited - I'm basing it on teaching experience. But no point in arguing - guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Y'all are calling it flinching. I call it jerking the trigger. I know, semantics. Jerking the trigger usually results in low and right for right handed shooters - not semantics, mechanics. Not on any trigger chart I've ever seen. Low right is for Lefties. Not on any trigger chart I've ever credited - I'm basing it on teaching experience. But no point in arguing - guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Yup, cause you're wrong based on my years of experience and rounds down range. I have a tendency to slap the trigger and they go low left when I do. 
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Posted: 8/24/2016 10:01:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Try not to shoot two different guns at the same time. I.e. Glock and 1911. Practice with one only and you will do much better. Sounds crazy but when I left the TRP at home my 19/17 shooting became shy of outstanding. Shot the glocks only every weekend for a month and got to where I could run the plate rack (slow but steady) at 65 yards. I have arfcommers as witnesses. Need to see if I still got it this weekend (have a 7 week old and have had limited range time )
And most importantly shoot a lot.....drift your rear sight to the right a smidge This too. Ive learned it really messes me up bringing both my 40 and my 9 to the range. Now I just stick to one caliber (not including rifles) on range trips. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 10:24:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup, cause you're wrong based on my years of experience and rounds down range. I have a tendency to slap the trigger and they go low left when I do.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Y'all are calling it flinching. I call it jerking the trigger. I know, semantics. Jerking the trigger usually results in low and right for right handed shooters - not semantics, mechanics. Not on any trigger chart I've ever seen. Low right is for Lefties. Not on any trigger chart I've ever credited - I'm basing it on teaching experience. But no point in arguing - guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Yup, cause you're wrong based on my years of experience and rounds down range. I have a tendency to slap the trigger and they go low left when I do.
And as I said, we'll have to agree to disagree
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Posted: 8/25/2016 12:28:00 AM EDT
[#50]
There is nothing wrong with slapping the trigger.
Strengthen your grip and trigger largely stops being an issue. Sights on target, press. There are demonstrations on youtube where they hit the trigger with a hammer to show slapping it...dead center hit. Sights on target are what matter. Grip strength is what keeps them there. YMMV |
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